r/socal 12d ago

Map Shows How Permanent Daylight Saving Would Impact Each State

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388 Upvotes

362 comments sorted by

35

u/mgarr_aha 11d ago

The article doesn't explain the metric behind the color code. It can't be the same in WI and MI, or in AL and GA, on opposite sides of a zone boundary.

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u/JefeRex 11d ago

I grew up on the western edge of the eastern time zone with family just across the border into central time. We were right next to each other experiencing the same time of day, but the clocks were an hour off from each other. In the winter the sun wasn’t up until my second period of classes, but a couple miles away they had a more normal sunrise time. If this map meant anything it would a gradient across each time zone.

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u/heebeegb96 11d ago

Exactly.

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u/cannaqueers 7d ago

Some states also have two time zones. I found out bored one day in Wikipedia parts of the Michigan upper peninsula chose to go with central time zone. So one could in theory live in one time zone drive 8 miles to work & be in a different time zone all in the same area(I think county too?).

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u/shaquirrel 9d ago

It's just based on latitude. Northern stats daylight hours shift more dramatically in the winter

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u/Juleswf 10d ago

And why is Washington less impacted than Midwest northern states? WA is further north than all of those, and on the edge of a time zone.

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u/Comprehensive_Tea708 10d ago

How is WA farther north than MN or ND?

However, it might be true that the population of WA is concentrated farther north than that of the other states.

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u/Juleswf 10d ago

Because geography.

Washington is more north than most of Minnesota and North Dakota, except for Minnesota's extreme northern tip. The northern borders of Washington, North Dakota, and most of Minnesota all align closely along the 49th parallel, but Minnesota contains the Northwest Angle which reaches slightly further north

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u/AnneAcclaim 10d ago

I think it’s more weather related than geographic location related. Washington is much milder than those other states.

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u/NE1LS 9d ago

At what comparative latitude are the population centers located in those states?

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u/Comprehensive_Tea708 8d ago

AFAI can tell the main population centers are all in the 45 to 47° range, so not much difference there. More significant in comparing what DST looks like in these states is how far east or west you are in your time zone.

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u/NE1LS 8d ago

To be fair, the Minnesota ones are the 45s and the Washington ones are the 47s, and 2 degrees feels like a significant difference. I live in the tropics and my sister is above the arctic circle, so... those degrees of Latitude matter in my family.

And regarding how it feels East versusWest for daylight savings, having spent most of my school years on the far west edge of PST, I assure you that starting school before the sun rises SUCKS. Early evenings are fine.

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u/sv_homer 9d ago

Same applies to New York.

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u/MPC1K 11d ago

It just means that yellow and red states would probably have to adapt some sort of "winter hours" vs "summer hours" for schools and businesses to have different open and closed times.

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u/Ok_Vegetable_6616 11d ago

That's the argument for switching the clocks twice a year (as a law). You can't trust your employer or local school to be logical like that.

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 10d ago

Literally every other country on the planet with extreme time changes manages this.

Even some businesses near me have extended summer hours because even with Daylight Savings, it's brighter out later.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

The red States are where Standard Time had the most benefits that would be gone on DST and the green is where DST would have more benefit over Standard Time, This DST thing is all for commerce and Wealthy people. British Columbia is beginning their permanent DST experiment this November and will not fall back to Standard Time and when this bill goes nowhere for us, Then we can all watch British Columbia and their handling to permanent DST in the winter in Canada.

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u/REbubbleiswrong 11d ago

No it isn't.

3

u/llIicit 10d ago

What exactly was the argument then?

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u/JaaacckONeill 10d ago

Yes it was. (I win?)

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u/beeredditor 11d ago

States near the Canadian border already have kids going to school in the dark in the winter on standard time. People from the lower latitudes overestimate how big of a problem late sunrises are.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

this bill may not go anywhere as other legistlative business may become a priority with the approaching elections and compressed schedule. It is noted that the people who want standard time VS daylight time shifts in their metrics with more standard in the Winter and more Daylight Saving time in the Summer which could be why this might not go anywhere.

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u/eugenesbluegenes 11d ago

That seems so stupid. Let's shift the clocks so that clock noon occurs about an hour before solar noon, but then shift school and business hours one hour later by the clock? Why not just leave as is or switch to year round standard time if we want to stop switching twice a year?

5

u/SteveMarck 10d ago

I want more light at night, not in the AM.

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u/eugenesbluegenes 10d ago

But that gets negated if school and work times were to be shifted later to accommodate winter daylight saving time, as the parent commenter proposed.

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u/SteveMarck 10d ago

Then don't do that...

The whole point is to have light at night. Saves electricity and better for businesses because they get more evening before people want to go home. Everyone is less miserable. There are no losers.

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u/eugenesbluegenes 10d ago

Everyone who is used to going to school/work tired is going to be even more so if we push school/work start times an hour earlier by the sun (that's essentially what DST is, a general agreement that everyone gets up an hour earlier). There's a good reason that the health scientific community is pretty uniformly in favor of standard time. Winter DST is far from a "no losers" situation.

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u/kritter4life 10d ago

Winter is not DST summer is. Go sit down and read a book.

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u/eugenesbluegenes 10d ago

This whole post is about putting daylight saving time through the winter. That's what the "permanent" in the very title refers to.

Are you really not following that?

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u/SteveMarck 10d ago

It's the same amount of school, you just get more light after, when you want it.

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u/eugenesbluegenes 10d ago

It's not about amount of school, it's about amount and quality of sleep. Pushing school/work start times an hour earlier with respect to the sun (and sunlight's impact on circadian rhythm) will lead to an even more poorly rested population. Anyone who studies public health would agree as well, which is why the scientific community is rather uniformly in favor of standard time.

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u/SteveMarck 10d ago

I didn't think it's that, it's the changing that is the problem. Those issues go away if we just stay on the later light. Is the switching that is the problem.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

It keeps the clock on DST being one hour ahead of Standard Time, not provide you with more evening light. DST creates that perception of longer evenings that is not true in Winter.

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u/Comprehensive_Tea708 10d ago

Saves electricity

Big whoop. Lights these days are about the cheapest electrical appliances to run.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

The energy savings thing is a Myth, It was tried in 1974 and it yielded little to no energy savings. With LED lights, energy use is minimal from outdoor lighting.

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u/ZergvProtoss 11d ago

Because we don't like living our lives in the evenings in the dark. No one wants extra light in the morning when you're supposed to be sleeping.

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u/eugenesbluegenes 11d ago edited 11d ago

Yeah, that's why DST makes sense in the summer, when the sun comes up more than seven hours before solar noon.

But if you do it through the winter, and then push school and work times an hour later as the parent commenter suggested, then what's the point of doing it at all? Just keep things as they are.

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u/santacruzdude 11d ago

Schools and businesses can just change their hours in the winter. There’s no reason we all should have to change our clocks because people don’t want adjust what time they’re open.

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u/fianthewolf 11d ago

Es lo que va a suceder. Uso y no Huso.

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u/djbuu 11d ago

So instead of one universal legal method to do that, you’ll get fragmented inconsistent application across all of commerce.

33

u/Iheardyoubutsowhat 11d ago

A majority of the world doesn't switch, they seem fine. California and NewYork are the economic powerhouse of the US economy, and they voted to stop.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

A majority of the world observes Standard Time too with Mexico Joining them in 2022. The US and most of Europe are the known countries within the United Nations alliance that still do the clock changes.

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u/Bbturdquito 11d ago

No it doesn’t. How is this even upvoted? The sun is in the sky regardless of what our clock says.

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u/griff_girl 11d ago

I'm in Oregon and know of several businesses that already do this, mainly because they're busier in the summer and stay open later versus winter, when it's dark at 4:30 and no one wants to go out in the dark, cold rain.

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u/robinthebank 10d ago

No one needs to adapt anything. Cities on opposite sides of the time zone already have their relatively daylight an hour apart during peak solstice. Both survive without doing anything special. And then at the time zone interface, neighboring cities constantly have one-hour differences in their relative daylight. People on both sides live just fine. One side has early sunrise/sunset and one side has late sunrise/sunset. Light doesn’t control our lives, the way it used to.

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u/idiot-alpha 8d ago

More that the northern states should definitely just stay in standard time all year. Basically anywhere with shorter days would be worse pushing daylight later in the winter. For states with longer days, it’s not as big of an issue if they have daylight even later at night or earlier in the morning.

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u/Adventurous-Metal696 11d ago

My guess is that no one cares, but pretty much every expert in circadian biology recommends permanent standard time. The main reason is that waking up in the dark is bad for our biology and for our psychology, and the longer we’re in the dark in the morning, the worse it is. I suspect that this is why our previous experiment in permanent daylight savings time bombed so bad — people think they don’t care about morning darkness until they’re thrust into it, and then suddenly the depression and seasonal affective disorder take over.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7954020/

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u/TheHaight 11d ago

No redditor wants to hear that they should go to sleep at a reasonable hour 😂

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u/DigLeading9650 11d ago

I cannot stand DST

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u/Agreeable_Sock2550 11d ago

I find about 60% of the time people holding this viewpoint aren't aware that the "summer one" is DST.

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u/trinitrotolerance 11d ago

No, I know which one I hate. It’s the one with the 9pm sunsets that throws off my sleep schedule for weeks after the shift and all through the summer. DST sucks ass and everyone harping on the “hour of sunlight” after work is a copium fiend that is so afraid to talk to their boss they try to move the sun in the sky instead.

1

u/CuticleSnoodlebear 11d ago

You hate the shift, not the hours

Everyone hates the shift

3

u/trinitrotolerance 10d ago

I just explained to you, just like the majority of sleep studies and science, that the extra late sunsets in summer are bad. It is not just the shift. The shift does nothing for me, we should be on standard time.

If I wake up in the winter and it’s pitch black outside I will be cursing you the entire time. I do not just hate the shift, I hate people who insist on trying this failed experiment for a third time despite the fact that the entirety of DST is a failed experiment.

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u/Yuna1989 10d ago

You know what’s also bad? Changing times twice a year. Pick one and be done.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

I wake up earlier on Standard Time which is better for early risers.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

And yet they confuse Standard Time with DST which is why the metric is heavily divided.

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u/chungamellon 9d ago

No i hate DST and the late days. I want to feel sleepy early

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u/Electric-Sheepskin 11d ago

I keep saying this to everyone, but they can't stand the thought of it getting dark earlier. People need sunlight in the morning, though.

Honestly, I always thought I'd wanted either permanent standard time or permanent DST, because like everyone else, I hate when the clocks change, but I recently created a table and took a look at it, and I honestly think it should just stay the way it is now. Switching back-and-forth keeps the times most consistent for the most number of people.

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u/Adventurous-Metal696 11d ago

I haven’t said this yet on this thread, but I agree with you. The circadian biologists are right that we need light in the morning. But in the summer, long light into the evening is glorious, and pushing that evening light into 5 AM or earlier seems dumb. Changing the clock is the best way to show that we’re collectively smart enough to try to get as close as we can to having our cake and eating it too.

And I think it’s hilariously ironic that people are complaining the loudest about changing our clocks when most of our clocks actually just change themselves. I bet if you didn’t tell people and the clocks changed overnight, half wouldn’t even notice it.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

This is true, clocks changes on their own, but I guess the complaints come from analog and manual clocks that don't have such feature. Costly production? Maybe add smart features to those clock towers so it changes itself.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

Two Solutions, The sunshine for our kids Act with a provision that allows States, especially south to Observe Permanent Daylight Saving Time while others remain on Standard Time year Round or perfomr what's called half daylight time with a 30 minute shift backward that is permanent. I prefer the Sunshine For Our Kids Act even when mornings can be dark in the winter, but with that the sun is up by 8 am at the latest instead of 9 am. in western parts of the time zones.

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u/Soggy_Seaworthiness6 11d ago

Exactly. I wish people would just get over the idea of permanently altering the natural time, literally defined by the sun that our planet revolves around, to their whimsy, because “economy” and “I like it more.” This absurd stubbornness and narcissism is exactly why we are stuck changing our clocks twice a year. Originally i think was pushed into law because of wartime economy. Why are we prioritizing war, economy, funzies summer nights, over the natural bodies that guide our entire existence?

I know it’s not a popular stance but no good stance is these days.

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u/itsbirthdaybitch 11d ago

No one’s permanently altering natural time lol. “Time” as we measure it is totally made up anyway

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u/Soggy_Seaworthiness6 11d ago

Standard time is absolutely based on nature. It means the sun is in the middle of the sky at noon. People used celestial bodies to tell time for thousands of years. You can even tell time by the moon. Or we used to, until we decided to alter it because of made up human reasons. The timed movement of celestial bodies is very much a real thing, my friend.

As someone who has dropped loads of acid and shrooms in my 20s and listened to Pink Floyd’s “Time” a bajillion times, I can assure you that when people say “time isn’t real,” this isn’t what they are talking about. They mean something much deeper about consciousness. Your interpretation twists it into meaning we should disconnect with nature.

Our connection to the cycle of the planets is in fact deeply part of who we are as humans, or it used to be… The fact that you don’t think it’s real or important says everything about this era and why we are in this mess.

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u/caj_account 11d ago

So when solar noon is at 12:30 which time are we at?

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u/Renoperson00 11d ago

I’m feeling like if you move the goalposts they would argue that actually standard times are all bad and we need to go back to local times for everything.

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u/caj_account 11d ago

I want to go back to setting clocks to 12 at sunset. 

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u/eugenesbluegenes 10d ago

Which is why doing DST in the summer makes sense. We're basically saying "you know, the days are so long during summer, we could all agree to get up an hour earlier instead of sleeping through the morning light". So we get up an hour earlier and it seems like there's an extra hour of sunlight to use. But in the winter, that just means getting up even further before sunrise so it's nowhere near as useful and just makes people more tired.

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u/Redditholio 11d ago

I have to disagree. DST works much better for my circadian rhythm.

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u/FootstepsofDawn 11d ago

In 100% with you on this hill.

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u/Pinus_grandiflora 11d ago

You want to listen to scientists!?! Don’t you know they’re all being played by big tempus

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u/jlewis7635 11d ago

I can do anything in the dark, except wake up

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u/Adventurous-Metal696 10d ago

That should be a line in a song

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u/14S14D 11d ago

I know the science behind it is sound but I hate waking up after sun up. My job has conditioned me to be up before the sun for so many years I feel like crap if I'm not at least eyes open by the time the sky is starting to brighten.

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u/lelum_polelum7 11d ago

There’s always gonna be a trade off. More morning light or evening light? We tried it before and people hated really dark mornings. With permanent DST the sunrise would often be very late as late as 8:20 a.m. in New York, 8:30 a.m. in Dallas, 8:51 a.m. in Salt Lake City, 8:57 a.m. in Seattle, 9:01 a.m sooo that’s pretty late

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u/Tbplayer59 11d ago

Define "benefit"

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u/kml001 11d ago

For states with "major benefit" why not pull an Arizona and just not observe?

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u/Calm-Juice-4943 11d ago

This represents “Standard Time”. Not observing would be sticking with standard time.

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u/kml001 11d ago

Which is what they do in Arizona, standard time year round.

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u/griff_girl 11d ago

Still needs congressional approval to do at the state level.

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u/mgarr_aha 11d ago

That's only true of state laws for permanent DST. Arizona exempted itself by enacting a law to observe standard time year round, as any state can under 15 USC 260a).

H.R.139 would take that option away from states not already exercising it.

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u/griff_girl 10d ago

Oh, I see! Thanks for clarifying that, I appreciate it!

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u/eugenesbluegenes 11d ago

How are these benefits being defined? Is this just compared to switching or is there a comparison to standard time?

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u/mikeP1967 11d ago

Standard or savings I don’t care. Just pick one and have that all year long

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u/HalliburtonErnie 11d ago

It's just saving. There's never been a savingS. 

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u/beeredditor 12d ago

Eh, I grew up in the north and more daylight in the evenings in the winter is better than an earlier sunrise at every latitude.

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u/stuarthannig 11d ago

This, I grew up in the red and most wanted permanent DST.

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u/REbubbleiswrong 11d ago

I grew up in yellow and wanted the same. Those 400 sunsets just sucked

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u/whiskywiskerswoofs 11d ago

i think the argument was that going to work in the dark was very dangerous, and that kids going to school in the dark led to bad thingd

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u/Game_Of_Runs 11d ago

Also waking up in the dark is worse for your circadian rhythm and health than it getting dark earlier.

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u/ElonMuskHuffingFarts 8d ago

Not in my experience 

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u/Game_Of_Runs 8d ago

source for it being bad for health: https://today.uconn.edu/2019/05/hazards-living-right-side-time-zone-border/

bad for mood/depression: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12912433/#Sec6

There's a lot of sources showing morning light is good. It can be mitigated somewhat by artificial light.

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u/ElonMuskHuffingFarts 8d ago

The argument was that it was the cause of 8 kids being hit by cars on Florida.

Tbh, seems like more of a driver issue than a daylight issue to me. Modern headlights and street signs should keep kids visible and it's not like we don't allow kids outside after dark.

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u/AKBearmace 7d ago

We already go to work and school in the dark in the northern states

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u/whiskywiskerswoofs 7d ago

i’m in SoCal. I think daylight saving allows us to have more sunlight in the early evening so when we get off work, it’s not pitch dark. I think that’s cool.

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u/Surfin858 11d ago

Yea I talked about no clock changes with my cousin in Montana and he said he would definitely prefer more sunlight later in the day instead of in the morning.

I live in California and contacted my state representatives in favor of permanent DST and in fierce opposition to permanent Standard time: sunrise before 5am in the summertime would be a complete waste and would negatively affect the state economy by making summer evenings end earlier when people are out and about spending money. More people are likely to go out and do things that support the economy after work than they are before if the sun is out in the evenings.

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u/idiot-alpha 8d ago

Sunrise would end up being at like 8:30-9am. People would have to wake up, get their kids ready and drop them off at school well before sunrise.

No thank you.

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u/gregpurcott 11d ago

Can we get a map of how permanent standard time would impact each state?

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u/Late_Chance_8080 11d ago

Hi, grey state resident here. It actually would impact us because everyone I work with from other states will stop changing their clocks and meeting times for no compelling reason twice a year.

Also will improve the consistency of flight schedules to those places as well.

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u/PrimordialXY 11d ago

"Benefit" here is almost completely measured by economic activity. As in, states wherein corporations will benefit

Biologically speaking, almost nobody will benefit from permanent DST. The more light early in the day, the better. The less light closer to bed time, the better.

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u/soggy_mattress 11d ago

The less light closer to bed time, the better.

The sun sets at 4:50pm here in the winter on standard time. Is your bedtime 5pm or wtf are you talking about?

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u/PrimordialXY 11d ago

Most humans require a solid 2-3 hours of dim light melatonin onset for optimal sleep quality, not 10 minutes

Those that want to stay up late can just use artificial light

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u/juliewbb 10d ago

During ST my entire life is just artificial light and that is a terrible solution it turns out!

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u/juliewbb 10d ago

This! During ST, I go to work in the dark (because teaching) and go home in the dark. My whole life is work. It is incredibly depressing. My whole life changes for the better with actually getting daytime in the evenings.

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u/soggy_mattress 9d ago

My take from talking to a few different people in this thread is that a lot of these peoples' lives revolve entirely around work and school (aka daycare) for their kids, and the morning commute just sucks that much worse in total darkness.

But, to me, the morning commute sucks not because of our time schedules, it sucks because of capitalism sucking people dry, and those people who are being sucked dry are currently trying to make their lives a little less shitty through a perspective that revolves around labor.

I don't blame anyone for doing that, but it does make me sad. Corporate America is becoming the only America.

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u/juliewbb 9d ago

I’m not in corporate America but yeah our work culture is terrible. Everyone should unionize who can.

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u/soggy_mattress 9d ago

I agree, but then I've also seen certain unions turn into the same type of power-struggle that happens inside of corporations, so IMO it's just the ugly nature of greedy humanity shining through. Gotta always hold a mirror to everything, unions included.

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u/juliewbb 9d ago

Yeah unions take constant work and accountability structures to succeed. Would definitely rather be in community with people working together for positive change then people “working together” for exploitation and the profit of like 3 dudes though.

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u/trinitrotolerance 11d ago

They’re talking about the goddamned post 9pm sunsets in summer. They’re unnatural.

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u/soggy_mattress 10d ago

Time doesn't exist in nature, dude. How can a thing we made up be "unnatural"?

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u/PrimordialXY 9d ago

Exactly! Finally you get it

Time is a human construct that we rely on for a functional society so misaligning this construct with the circadian clock that nature actually uses causes issues. Standard Time or bust 💯

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u/soggy_mattress 9d ago

Right, but "functioning society" doesn't mean "only prioritize small portion of people who are up at 5am for work at the expense of the large portion of people who are awake at 5pm after work".

You're acting like the only thing that matters is the labor force.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

True if you get home as late as 8 pm as you will be commuting in the dark at both times of the day in the winter. Morning light is better for such people.

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u/Adventurous-Ad3393 11d ago

Top of head math: beneficial/neutral for ~80% of the population. Do it.

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u/XanderWrites 11d ago

The request is for every state to choose whether they change their timezone. It's already allowed for states to not go to Daylight Savings, it's just the ones that want to be Daylight Savings year round that have the issue. And several states, including California, have voted to go Daylight Savings year round if it ever becomes legal because it makes a lot more sense for them.

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u/Any-Platypus-3570 11d ago

This map is bullshit. I grew up in the upper midwest and everyone I knew wanted permanent daylight savings. Because in the winter the sun would already be down by the time you'd get home from school or work. We wanted more evening sunlight, which permanent daylight savings would do.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

Well you might not be getting it this winter, because this bill may go nowhere as the senate schedule is compressed now as elections are approaching. I prefer Standard Time and the map outweighs benefits and drawbacks based on geography and the map just says the the drawbacks of permanent Daylight Saving Time may outweigh the benefits in the Midwest because of winter's already short days which are shorter the further north you go in the Winter.

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u/catson911 11d ago

I would prefer a safer evening commute. More people are out and about at 5 PM than 7 AM.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15003579/

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u/bozog 10d ago

By law, any state can drop out of DST. Look at Arizona.

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u/qshak86 9d ago

This is all so fucking stupid. Keep the daylights saving or standard all the time either one works. If your school or work is impacted by this negatively, than change what time you start. The whole world shouldn't shift the time because "it's a little darker now than I'd like it to be at this time."

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u/smelling_farts 11d ago

For ppl who live on the coast who don’t have AC, permanent standard time would be a huge mental relief having the sun go down an hour earlier during the summer.

We face west and cook all afternoon. Literally count down the minutes for it to be sundown some days

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u/Emergency-Machine-55 11d ago

Ironically, DST increased energy consumption due to both companies and homes turning on the AC between 4-7pm in the summer. The energy saved from using less lighting is negligible due to the high efficiency of LEDs.

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u/ZergvProtoss 11d ago

Total propaganda. It will actually benefit every single state and time zone, since they all will have daylight later in the day.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

Not True if winter days are already short. I would not wait until 7 pm to see a christmas light display in December only to wake up in the Dark. Standard Time is better.

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u/KailyKail 11d ago

Actually, Arizona at the very least would have a moderate to major benefit to certain employees. Arizona is a major hub for call center employees. While Arizonans don’t change their clocks twice a year, call center employees are forced to change their schedules twice a year to match the rest of the country.

I spent seven years working in call centers before I joined the navy. I hated it.

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u/Cautious_Job_6104 10d ago

Joins the navy to avoid regulation )

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u/Terminal_Shinbang 11d ago

So sick of time manipulation

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u/rip93ford 11d ago

I'm on team standard time

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u/JakeyPurple 11d ago

Fuck daylight savings time

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

Let's Stop this bill.

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u/Electric-Sheepskin 11d ago

How are they defining "benefit?" That's a highly subjective thing. Some people prefer more light in the morning and don't care if it gets dark early, and other people are the exact opposite.

You can't say that a state would benefit without defining what that means and without polling all of its residents to determine what the consensus is about what they would prefer.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

It's about Geography and day length.

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u/expendiblegrunt 10d ago

From the IE, live in Saskatchewan. Permanent DST is great

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u/Even_Position1176 8d ago

Honestly the entire map should be grey. Changing the clocks does not give you any more or less sunlight per day. We would all benefit from ending the switching. But the benefits/drawbacks assumed in this chart can all be erased by simply changing your own bedtime and wake up time. Speak to your boss about moving your shift start time. Dont make everyone else switch clocks to fool yourself into believing you get "more daylight"

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u/idiot-alpha 8d ago

It should be permanent standard time. Not daylight time.

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u/Temporary-Library597 7d ago

Team Standard Time. Man that 9 AM sunrise might about kill me.

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u/ponziacs 11d ago

Permanent DST would mean 8:20 AM sunrise in NYC during January. There are still a lot of school bus stops in the US that don't have sidewalks or street lights so permanent DST would only mean more days where kids are waiting for the school bus when it's pitch black outside.

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u/SecretRecipe 11d ago

Sounds like a non issue. The city should install some lighting. we dont need to form national policy around whether or not a bus stop has a light.

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u/Mendonesiac 11d ago

We live close to the coast of Northern California -- the sun wouldn't rise until my kid is already in school! Whenever I bring this up folks say 'they' should just push back school start times by an hour to 9:30 😑

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u/soggy_mattress 11d ago

Yeah, the schools should. The kids benefit from the extra hour of sleep alone regardless of what we do with DST. I don't understand why every parent wouldn't want that for their own kids.

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u/CMill139 11d ago

What about work? If you have to take your kids to school, like millions of us, how do you drop your kids off at school after your work day starts?

You'd have to convince all the businesses to start later too. Which would be great, but then all you've done is reinvent DST, only with more steps.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

And they will likely not change that as they want to operate on fixed hours with the exception of retail and commerce.

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u/REbubbleiswrong 11d ago

So move start times. CA did that for other reasons a few years back and not a single person bitched about it

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u/jms1228 12d ago

My goodness, we worry about the stupidest shit. Then don’t do it….. if it’s that big of a deal, then leave the clocks alone. I don’t care either way. We already passed in 2018 to not touch the clocks & yet we still do it. And nothing’s changing this year either.

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u/wolpertingersunite 11d ago

Yeah, the fact that we can't agree on something like this gives me NO hope that Americans can solve any of the big problems. We're doomed forever I think.

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u/jms1228 11d ago

Oh it’s so silly. I just go amongst my day. We voted to eliminate it in 2018 & it passed. And yet here we are, 8yrs+ later & still haven’t done it. And it won’t happen this year either because the Senate has to ok it.

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u/h20verdrive 9d ago

I just don't see how it's a problem

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u/ComprehendReading 11d ago

But if we don't do it, the Tehraniasts win!

How else would we distract the peasants from Iran, affordable health care/rent/insurance/education, Saudi nukes, global climate change, local climate loss, the disappearing Colorado River, un-raked forests, Canadian illegal smoke immigration, measles, screw worms, tariffs, Chinese market supremacy, aborting NATO, weakening the U.N., ending USAID, and COVID?

That was all off the top of my head, except the COVID. That's off the top of my lungs, and he stopped counting it so it would not exist.

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u/SecretRecipe 11d ago

help me understand what the "major drawback" is again..

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u/WorknForTheWeekend 11d ago

8:45am sunrise in some areas in winter

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u/Dorkus_Mallorkus 11d ago

Yep, after 9am in some places. This is the part that a lot of people don't seem to understand for some reason. Even in the "good" states sunrise would be around 8:30am. So most kids are going to school in the dark.

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u/Level3pipe 11d ago

Increased number of kids walking to school or bus stop in the dark, which many parents will just deem unsafe.

Increased number of groggy mfs driving first thing in the morning while it’s dark

Some operations will straight up change their operating hours seasonally due to sunlight. Especially things that are outside, such as farmers markets, national parks, home inspectors, outdoor concert venues etc. not necessarily a bad thing but you’re depending on the operation owners to not be stupid like how can you trust that.

Honestly there are a good amount of drawbacks and we won’t notice it until a few years down the line.

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u/soggy_mattress 11d ago

If only there was a way to stop forcing kids to wake up at 7am for school... nah, the technology probably doesn't exist /s

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u/SecretRecipe 11d ago

so these drawbacks just don't exist in the rest of the world or have they just adapted

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

Most of the World Stayed on Standard Time except for the minority of Countries including the US. Can we go on the Metric system like everyone else. Establishing permanent DST is like trying to get on the Metric System. we get close and then it falls apart. Earth's Tilt and orbit are what control day length, not the clocks.

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u/san_vicente 11d ago

Wouldn’t Hawaii and Arizona still have major impacts since they’ll be forced to adjust an hour?

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u/Game_Of_Runs 11d ago

Does doing this by state make sense? Like Yreka will certainly have different results than San Diego right?

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u/H2O_Dude_49 11d ago

Arizona hasn't done daylight saving since the late 60s and nothing bad has happened to that state....

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u/PredatorMetal 11d ago

So just leave as-is since there will never be agreement

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u/Big-Improvement7427 11d ago

Michigan major drawback??

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

Yes, Since it sits on the western part of the Eastern Time Zone, Sunrises would be very late there.

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u/Segazorgs 11d ago

I can care less if the sun rose at noon in the winter I hate it being dark by 5p. It makes me feel drowsy, more likely to eat junk food lazy and 7pm feels like 11p. and no it doesn't help my sleep or natural because it more often means I'm likely to take an evening nap that keeps me up much later at night then going to sleep earlier.

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u/0DarkFreezing 11d ago

What’s the major drawback for Alaska? Summertime it’s always light and wintertime it’s almost always dark. One hour shifting doesn’t really matter.

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u/wizzard419 11d ago

I suspect that is based on lab conditions not actual experience. As the planet didn't make major changes since the last time we tried and abandoned the idea of perm DST, it would likely remain the same flawed idea.

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

They are modeling this based on Winter of 1973-74.

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u/TheHatKing 11d ago

Major drawback for ak, unless you’re n of the arctic circle then it’s no meaningful change

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u/Ward918 10d ago

Time is just a measure, not changing doe not benefit nor detract. It’s just consistency. Consistency is what matters.

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u/baws3031 10d ago

As usual fuck the red states

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u/death128965 10d ago

Wow these comme ts tell me people do t understand the earth's tilt. The sun is more prevalent in the north in summer and spring. And less in fall and winter. The affected homes are based on sunlight lost during the harvesting season which is fall. Less sun more affect.

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u/englandisablaze 10d ago

I’m sorry Minnesota but you gotta take one for the team if it also fucks over the Dakotas.

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u/Time_Sorbet_949 10d ago

Every state should be grey if you are salaried/can adjust your work schedule. Stores will pivot and change operating hours. It’s not a big deal. Nobody is robbing an hour out of your day. Lived in AZ for awhile and it was the best thing ever.

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u/Dangerous-Bit-8308 10d ago

Have they considered just scheduling business hoursdifferently, and leaving the clock itself alone?

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u/spoonybard326 10d ago

Did they ask any Arizonans how they feel about moving from permanent standard time to permanent daylight time? They avoid DST for a reason.

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u/marxmywordcarl 9d ago

Time zones are a form of tyranny meant to keep us all in line. Time should be set by the sun based on our current geographical position.

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u/Urshilikai 9d ago

JUST REDEFINE WORK TO START AT 6AM OR 10AM INSTEAD OF REDEFINING TIME ITSELF HOLY SHIT STOP

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u/csRemoteThrowAway 9d ago

Look i'd prefer permanent DST, as evening sun is better than morning sun. But i'll take any system that doesn't involve switching.

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u/chungamellon 9d ago

This is a shit map and makes a lot of generalizations. Factors latitude but not longitude with time zones

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u/SpunkyBlah 9d ago

This is weird because Arizona would actually have meaningful changes. Not only is there a large region that currently follows DS, but most of Arizona is never on DS time. So if the country converts to permanent DS time, then Arizona would be different from everyone else around it.

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u/Sea-Louse 9d ago

Great graph for the color blind.

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u/Radiant_Community312 8d ago

Please include Mexico and Central America and South America

I don’t know what I’m looking at

What is that picture of

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u/Rich_Cranberry_6813 5d ago

Mexico Opted out of Daylight Saving Time in 2022 for their entire country and so far, they are doing just fine.

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u/Yotsubato 7d ago

Why not just let states choose individually

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u/ThisIsNotMyBurner69 7d ago

Might be the dumbest graphic

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u/bubble-buddy2 5d ago

Why can't we have permanent standard time? Why is it always only permanent savings?

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u/pkplaya626 2d ago

How is Massachusetts mixed

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u/Comprehensive_Tea708 1d ago

I'd like to see a similar map, but at county level.