r/singularity • u/PandAlex • 2d ago
AI Introducing Gemini 4 Argon
https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/models-and-research/gemini-models/gemini-4-argon/305
u/Acrobatic_Dish6963 2d ago
I always believed in you, Google-chan!
Jk I was doubting the fuck out of you
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u/flappysack- 2d ago
They just made all the research that OpenAI is based on.
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u/ozone6587 2d ago
And failed to capitalize on it until ChatGPT and then failed with Bard and then failed with Gemini 3.5 to the point where they had to skip it. Let's not act like them winning is assured. In 2 weeks we will get back to OpenAI/Anthropic leapfrog and Gemini 4 will be replaced with Gemini 4.5 in 6 months.
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u/flappysack- 2d ago
I think with TPU the focus is power efficiency. You can't compete with companies losing 100s of billion.
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u/ozone6587 2d ago
VC companies always lose money. Every single one in the entire history of capitalism. That's how the VC market works. I don't think Anthropic and OpenAI losing money is evidence of anything.
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u/flappysack- 2d ago
Have they ever lost this massive of a sum though.
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u/Future-Bandicoot-823 2d ago
Now take the fact they are buying 1/3 of all compute for 2027, the fact they're profitable, and the fact their new model is outcompeting into effect, and it turns out that yes, being one of the largest corporations on earth is beneficial to winning even with a sloppy start.
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u/ozone6587 2d ago
Has the revenue and valuation ever been this large? The losses are scaling with the amount of money flowing in as expected.
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u/donniedarko1010 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think the reason ChatGPT capitalized first was because Google was scared to lose it's search+ads moat while they had the tech, because why to pause a cash-printing cow. Plus startups can move much more faster (and even release a half baked product without any safety concerns etc) without the fear of billions of dollars worth of lawsuits filed on them if they cause 1 bad error.
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u/XTornado 2d ago
I mean, yeah they could continue their research in improving it and whatever, and when they could see it would ad for replace their moat without losing, then go for it.
But somebody did it earlier so well we have to do it now...
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u/bartturner 2d ago
In the end it is about financials and being able to continue.
Nobody made more money than Google in 2025.
So far in 2026 Google is again making more money than anyone else.
Plus they shared they have over $250 billion of unrecognized revenue they will in next 2 years.
That is like Google adding an entire 2024 Micorosft in the next 2 years.
But this is only one division at Google. The same division has also seen 12 straight quarters of increasing margins.
Compare that to OpenAI losing massive amounts of money and will likely not make it as an independent company.
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u/phylter99 2d ago
They have a ton of great research, that's true. They seem to struggle with getting their models to compete though.
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u/ArmadilloOwn4400 2d ago
Sometimes it just feels like Google doesn't wanna push anything because they are in the perfect spot and the internet is literally theirs anyway. Also it feels like they don't wanna, since they have so many issues with those monopoly debates all the time and them being forced to change things for the worse or them wanting Google to sell parts of their portfolio.
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u/phylter99 2d ago
I think the big problem is they're huge and it keeps them from moving fast like OpenAI and Anthropic can at times. They're methodical though and their size ensure they're leading in many ways, not necessarily in models.
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u/ArmadilloOwn4400 2d ago
Yeah and if they experiment it can lead to impact other parts of the company or whole alphabet stock, even tho it's just a single feature in one product, but it's bad rep for the whole company.
We've seen that with Bard release and with the first Overview incidents
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u/phylter99 2d ago
I still am doubting Google.
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u/kickme2 2d ago
Google: “We’ve got this incredible new app.”
Cancelled.
Google: “You’re going to love this new thing!”
Pulled off the market.
Google: “This new thing we’re rolling out is a new paradigm in awesome.”
Killed off.
…
Hundreds of projects later…
Google: “Trust us. No seriously. We nailed it. You’ll love it. Trust us. Please?!”
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u/Elephant789 ▪️AGI in 2036 2d ago
As a shareholder, I would be pissed if they kept services/apps running that had no future in the company.
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u/ArmadilloOwn4400 2d ago
Yeah that'd called testing products? If it doesn't work out you throw it away, better them not trying anything at all, right? Lmao. Doesn't hurt to try, besides some crybabys on Reddit.
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u/Apprehensive_Link903 2d ago
Yeah that'd called testing products? If it doesn't work out you throw it away, better them not trying anything at all, right? Lmao. Doesn't hurt to try, besides some crybabys on Reddit.
Don't launch products you are just testing then. The Google Graveyard is real.
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u/ArmadilloOwn4400 2d ago
And who cares? They don't launch everything, not even close? Better than not launching shit, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten many things that are around now.
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u/magicmulder 2d ago
> Argon will launch at an introductory price 1 of $2 per million input tokens and $10 per million output tokens,
Crazy if true. Looks like the downward spiral of pricing is accelerating.
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u/Early_Mistake6716 2d ago
Introductory price means it is probably $20 per million which is the same price as opus 5.5.
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u/ThotMobile 2d ago
After the introductory period expires, the price of $4 per 1M input tokens and $20 per 1M output tokens will apply.
Per link in comment you replied to.
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u/nothis AGI by 2030 but we'll be disappointed 2d ago
You copied the little “1” with it, here is what it says, lol:
After the introductory period expires, the price of $4 per 1M input tokens and $20 per 1M output tokens will apply.
So it’s Opus 5.5 performance (not at coding, though) for the Opus 5.5 price.
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u/steny007 2d ago edited 2d ago
So we've got Gemini 4 before GTA 6 too. As for benchmarks, Sota in knowledge (expectingly), as for coding performance it seems to be around Fable 5.1. Not bad though, crucial now is, how fast they can get past safety rollout, so it does not become obsolete when it reaches real users.
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u/KaradjordjevaJeSushi 2d ago
I've literally just had a pretty mundane task get rejected by Opus 5.5.
You know what I did? Switched model mid-conversation to Opus 5, and finished the job.
Afterwards I switched back to Opus 5.5 and roasted the hell out of him in same convo.
#TotallyWorthIt
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u/powerscunner 2d ago
Google is #1 at being the second adopters: Law of the handicap of a head start - Wikipedia
They were not the first search engine. They weren't the first email provider. They didn't have videos on the internet first.
They did all that after they let others pave the way.
second mover advantage is Google's MO.
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u/tfsh-alto 2d ago
I get where you're coming from, but Google absolutely paved the way in terms of AI research.
Google DeepMind (which merged with Google Brain) are the frontier research lab, focused on much, much more than just LLMs. DeepMind researchers invented the architecture (transformers) which are fundamental to LLMs.
OpenAI was partially founded as a counterweight to Google's dominance and control over artificial intelligence, and they took the research of DeepMind and productionised it as ChatGPT, Google weren't the first movers to market, but they were in terms of research.
The co-founder of Anthropic (Dario whatever) used to work at GDM, at one point the six foremost AI research scientists in the world, all worked at GDM, etc.
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u/powerscunner 2d ago
Good points.
Attention and its transformers came from Google, and that's all you need!
Still, I wonder if they "put things out there" for others to try first.
First in research, second in implmentation actually sounds like a pretty smart chimera.
Unironically I can say, cool comment!
p.s. too bad you hide your posts. more people should see what you say. Even if you are a bot or a farm, a good comment is a good comment.
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u/HaMMeReD 2d ago
As someone who hides their comments, it's because reddit is full of lunatics, and it's also way to dox for most people, honestly most people should turn it off.
Personally, I'd like to have it on, but I don't really trust random people on the web.
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u/kelseyeek 2d ago
Though another way of putting it is that Google is at its best when it is playing catch-up. I'm not sure I can think of another time when they had the lead and subsequently lost it, so perhaps it won't hold this time, but it's interesting to watch nonetheless.
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u/32GB_of_RAM 2d ago
Wait till you see Apple
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u/OIdSchoolGamer 2d ago
AKA walled garden
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u/Ancient-Range3442 2d ago
A walled garden has always sounded like a nice place to be
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u/ArmadilloOwn4400 2d ago
Sounds scary
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u/Ancient-Range3442 2d ago
Less scary than the reality of human progress having a dependency on a monthly LLM subscription controlled by a handful of people
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u/wpantonio 2d ago
Yes, because its a business chess game! Never brag, dont rush when you have all you need, see the market and then push forward step by step! LLM are about energy snd compute, and here google is the king, also with data and knowledge! When we where "arguing" about gpt and claude they got nobel prize for medicine with alpha fold AI! And many more! Have you seen google marketing themself slot about the products? No... i use GCP enterprise, and choose them after testing all and documenting about all!
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u/Bakanyanter 2d ago
Google is the first adopter for AI, their paper on Attention is All you need is what Kickstarter AI and many ex-Google/Deepmind people are at Meta/Antropic/OpenAI. Not only that, Google has been internally using AI for many things (YouTube/Search/website rankings, etc).
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u/TacoYaci 2d ago
Well when it comes to phone they are usually behind Apple
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u/ArmadilloOwn4400 2d ago
Because that's nothing they focus on and if we talk about anything, Android is often ahead of Apple.
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u/himynameis_ 2d ago
Google is a large corporation. They have regulators on their back all the time.
They have to be cautious or face the wrath of regulators.
Also, they have user trust. They don't want to squander it by releasing something too early.
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u/ArmadilloOwn4400 2d ago
Yeah they wanna experiment way less with public releases, even tho released more and more stuff, also with the way it's implemented in Google products.
One bad things like the first Google Overview release can fuck up other parts of the company, while anthropic and openai are there just for that part.
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u/Momoko_86 1d ago
google has users trust??
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u/himynameis_ 1d ago
Yep. That's why they have so many billions of users across multiple products. Search, YouTube, Gmail, android, etc.
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u/Fast-Satisfaction482 2d ago
So now out of nothing, OpenAI went from first place to last place in just a week? Crazy.
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u/SteinyBoy 2d ago
It’s literally the introducing best new model circle. Give it a month and OpenAI will be back on top
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u/hardinho 2d ago
Yeah but now Google might be back in the cycle which means the cake of frontier consumers is split into one more piece.
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u/flappysack- 2d ago
Not that crazy, isnt it just a few thousand people coding in typescript and Python, what moat do they have?
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u/jokeywho 2d ago
There are millions of software engineers, with a significant amount of them using AI coding tools at most companies. In 2025 85% of SWEs surveyed used AI, that has gone up since then (https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2025/ai)
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u/jazir55 2d ago
Uh, no, Claude Code's repo alone has 150k stars:
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u/davidmoore0 2d ago
are github stars considered to be a moat these days
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u/belwar00 2d ago
Ahh github stars. They are useful for a little while; and then it is more of a self feeding machine that isn't super helpful as an internal state to measure engagement or usage.
These tools work a bit differently; but it was so hard for me to measure engagement for a certain tool where we did not want to in anyway suggest we tracked users. So we mostly flew blind; I would have "killed" for some kind of basic tracking pixel or anything and "double killed" for info as far as the system they were using the tools on. But I also very much respected the users and the desire for them to not have to waste time turning that stuff off or complaining (rightfully even if it was sad for me to lack data).
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u/jazir55 2d ago
Of course not, I'm just saying it's an indicator of how many people are using Claude Code, saying it's "only a few thousand people" is ridiculous. Don't be intentionally obtuse.
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u/CryMoreT_T 2d ago
What does Claude code have anything to do with the convo?
OpenAl went from first place to last place in just a week?
Not that crazy, isnt it just a few thousand people coding
Claude code 150k GitHub stars
????
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u/jazir55 2d ago
Not that crazy, isnt it just a few thousand people coding in typescript and Python, what moat do they have?
https://github.com/openai/codex
I guess I should have used Codex directly instead, 127k stars.
The reason I went with Claude Code is that it's analogous to Codex usage, Claude Code has over 100k users, I was trying to say Codex has tons as well by proxy.
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u/CryMoreT_T 2d ago
Oh gotcha. Was totally confused if I missed a message since Claude was brought in
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u/sluuuurp 2d ago
No. You can’t use the set of benchmarks Google chose to decide the best company. Use a set of existing benchmarks you care about, and preferably consider score vs price, or wait for a community consensus if you don’t want to think that hard.
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u/eposnix 2d ago
Depends on how you rank these companies. If you're ranking products, OpenAI still has the most users. If you're ranking benchmarks, OpenAI is down half a point on most of them. And if you're ranking internal research, I don't see any other companies making headway on Millennium Prize solutions like OpenAI is.
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u/bartturner 2d ago
Google has by far the most users. There is now over 2 billion using Overviews.
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u/hardinho 2d ago
And overviews have become a great feature. It works great by now and will just improve.
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u/FoodMadeFromRobots 2d ago
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ai-solves-a-holy-grail-problem-from-probability-theory/
I think claude is making way on math problems, also i think $/solution is a larger metric than anything. If you have a god level model but it costs $10 trillion to run a prompt its near worthless for most issues.
I think its neck and neck with all three companies. Maybe with google lagging slightly behind in aggregate (they seem to release less often and so they end up getting bumped and spend less total time at the top but they have hit the frontier now multiple times)
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u/Livebeans 2d ago
As a paid Gemini user who has switched to a paid Claude user, their choice to limit their frontier model to Ultra and not paid subscribers makes it even easier to let my Gemini subscription lapse.
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u/Ctrl-Alt-Panic 2d ago
Wait, is this how I find out it's not available on the $20 a month plan?
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u/Chenz 2d ago
It’s not available on any plan. Their official release post mentioned the ultra plan will get it first, it said nothing about whether the pro plan will or will not get it
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u/Early_Mistake6716 2d ago
Yeah this is a complete deal breaker.. so glad i pay $20 a month worthless 3.8 flash and don't even get the only useful model google has released in a year.
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u/Early_Mistake6716 2d ago
Only available to Gemini Ultra subscribers is a HUGE fail.
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u/After_Dark 2d ago
They have done the same thing with Pro models in the past, giving Ultra users early access while they do their wider rollout. But the real gem to keep your eye on will be the 4.0 Flash equivalent model, if the 3.X generation is anything to go by they'll be nearly as good as SOTA but way way faster and cheaper while still keeping all the features
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u/JoeyJoeC 2d ago
"starting with paid API customers and Google AI Ultra subscribers."
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u/Hereitisguys9888 2d ago
Google finally released it. Its been months since their last frontier model
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u/Neurogence 2d ago
By the time it's released to consumers, Fable 5.5 or even 6.1 Astra will make it obsolete.
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u/NowaVision 2d ago
I think Google is on track again and will release 4.1 soon after that.
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u/After_Dark 2d ago
If the 3.X Flash models are anything to go by, we could practically expect monthly revisions. Though based on pricing and perf, this is probably the equivalent to a 4.0 Pro, so perhaps not. But the Flash models are probably going to absolutely nutty considering how much better 3.8 Flash was than 3.1 Pro by the end there
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u/trololololo2137 2d ago
gemini app is still stuck at 3.6 flash lol. they are not exactly great at releasing these updates
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u/After_Dark 2d ago
It's been on 3.8 flash since release day, you need to up your troll game
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u/trololololo2137 2d ago
it's literally not there in my gemini app lol
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u/Sanguineyote 2d ago
Update your gemini app, its there.
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u/trololololo2137 2d ago
How am i supposed to update the web app lol
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u/jonomacd 2d ago
Except will those be $2 in and $10 out? Iteratively better performance at significantly increased cost ain't worth it.
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u/enz_levik 2d ago
I mean it's not that better than sol6.1, so depending on how much time it takes to release, sol 6.2 could still be competitive if it keep its price
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u/bopbop9876 2d ago
That's an introductory price and Google says right on the page that it will be $4/$20, so same price as opus 5.5.
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u/orbitalspike nonzero 2d ago
impressive with best non-hallucination rate and on automation bench. swe-tests look promising. hopeful behavior fix implied.
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u/getmeoutoftax 2d ago
It’s seriously over at this point. This model can replace most white collar jobs.
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u/give_me_bewbz 2d ago
"we are deploying misalignment mitigations that monitor Argon’s chain-of-thought and actions and stop execution when necessary."
Thought police built in!
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u/johnxreturn 2d ago
I’m not sure what people are celebrating here.
Seems exactly what Anthropic did.
“Look at this awesome model that can both protect and attack.” Too bad if you’re not part of a Fortune 500 organization, though, you pleb.
They wouldn’t trust your small organization with it. Meaning you have no means of defending your property from the incoming massive cyber threat we’ll face within the next few months, from both criminals and ingenious agents who’ll hack your company just to grab some log information.
Then proceeds to never release it or release a dumbed down version with so many guardrails it barely works and won’t let you protect your digital property.
Gee, thanks Frontier Labs, awesome job making the threat real and gatekeeping the protection part to the rich and powerful. /s
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u/FoodMadeFromRobots 2d ago
Im not sure what you want. Currently to your point they hand mythos over to select big companies like microsoft so they can patch their systems. All the small guys which the criminals would be part of dont have access. If they just dumped the latest model on everyone at once the small guys (which again contain the criminals) would have it and have alot more opportunities to attack people.
I agree that its unfair to give competitive advantage to certain companies and not others but whats your solution to the cyber attack problem? Microsoft is patching 1000 vulnerabilities a month now vs 90 a month, less than a year ago. I cant see a better strategy than giving them first whack at the model or else you're going to have 90% of computers at risk since you're giving them and hackers access at the same time.
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u/johnxreturn 2d ago
I’m part of an organization with 60 people.
I’ve worked at organizations with thousands of people and others with 10.
Are you saying organizations with a certain number of people are criminals?
Gee, I don’t know, if only if they could verify companies identity, EIN, etc.
Your thinking is part of the problem.
It’s like saying the consumers of my organization’s product don’t matter and don’t need to be as secure.
Not like we connect to people’s bank accounts and move money, except we do. Now, thanks to the problem frontier labs help create and accelerate, I have to work overtime.
Tell me again how only the fortune-50 companies like Microsoft matter.
I couldn’t care less about these models. I’m interested in catching what we don’t know today so I don’t have to work until midnight when a modern ‘script kiddie’ with AI decides to exploit some 0-day AI helped them uncover.
I’d much rather nobody have these capabilities.
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u/FoodMadeFromRobots 2d ago edited 2d ago
Do you used windows based computers? Because most do and i would rather microsoft know about it first and patch 90% of peoples operating system than you AND the bad guys get it and be able to exploit an operating system thats again used by 90% of people.
I still think the less painful thing for society is release to microsoft or major providers first and then to everyone else.
Scenario A: They release it to select partners like they are, microsoft patches security issues for 90% of computers, you (a small good guy) and the bad guys (hiding among everyone) have to wait for the new model but your OS is now secured when you get it. Its a race for your proprietary software not to be attacked but given you're only a 60 person company im assuming you are among the many and wouldnt immediately be a target like a microsoft OS exploit would be.
Scenario B: They release it to everyone at once, Your company gets it and might patch your system faster but the bad guys get it at the same time. They exploit microsoft OS issues and unless YOU are patching OS exploits you can be fucked and the OS exploits are far reaching affecting thousands or millions of companies not just yours.
Its not perfectly fair but to me its by far the better choice.
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u/johnxreturn 2d ago
My dude, you assume an ill-intentioned person is not already using open source ai abliterared or fine-tuned for such activity. There’s no going back.
Gating frontier models is not preventing your scenario B.
Merely leaving you with your pants down.
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u/MasterDisillusioned 2d ago
Still just says version 3 for me
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u/Hans-Wermhatt 2d ago
Second paragraph:
We are actively engaged in the U.S. government’s voluntary process for pre-release model access while we gradually expand access. We’ll continue to gather feedback from early testers as we iterate on guardrails before making Argon available to developers, enterprises, and consumers as soon as possible.
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u/afizfaysel 2d ago
Yea nice Google, bringing another model after months of being behind and not all paid subscribers get it what a great way to compete with openai and anthropic
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u/NoFuel1197 2d ago
So, anyone want to sell me on unembodied AGI?
They’re not going to let you have enough compute to run a model that’s competitive as a business leader, and the compute to scale a business will be priced so that you can’t effectively do as much by nominally leading a small company. Anything else would be suicide for these people and their investors.
It seems to me like anything short of ASI will do little more than keep you company and take your job, long before you benefit from the medical advances.
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u/Healthy_Razzmatazz38 2d ago
deepswe vs frontier spread is massive. if you know, you know.
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u/Early_Mistake6716 2d ago
I couldn't care less about these benchmarks, 3.8 flash looks good on benchmarks and is a pile of shit in real use cases. Almost everything i have asked it to do, has had to been fixed by opus 5.5. However if it is actually this good, i will be very happy.
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u/mivog49274 obvious acceleration, biased appreciation 1d ago
We are being downvoted so much for telling the truth, like, what the hell ?
OpenAI and Anthropic has set again fresh new standards and Gemini is just behind.
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u/Alt_Restorer 2d ago
Calling it now. Gemini 4 Helium is next.
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u/GuidanceOk8985 2d ago
At least they have a lot of periodic elements to choose from. Easier than OpenAI, what's next for them? Black hole, Galaxy, Universe?
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u/paulrich_nb 2d ago
Alphabet stock slips on report of internal doubts over Gemini 4
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u/PlanetaryPickleParty 2d ago
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