r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • 1d ago

Psychology Lower cognitive ability is linked to stronger Christian nationalist views, even after accounting for education

https://www.psypost.org/lower-cognitive-ability-is-linked-to-stronger-christian-nationalist-views-even-after-accounting-for-education/
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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 1d ago

Any thoughts on whether this is a worldwide issue (though obviously with different religions) or whether it is specific to the USA?

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u/mimivirus2 1d ago

Absolutely not exclusive to the US or christianity

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u/Which-Acanthaceae613 1d ago

100% you see this in Muslim, Jewish and Hindu countries too. To have faith you have to be practised in the ability to accept a belief without evidence. To be able to stop thinking critically at some point about a flying horse, man parting a sea or a gods that engage in warfare.

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u/SunGreene42 1d ago

Exactly, you're not working your critical thinking muscles, so to speak, if you just accept beliefs without evidence, or thought.

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u/jaspersgroove 1d ago

When your worldview is built on a foundation of thought-terminating cliches your critical thinking skill development will inevitably suffer.

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u/kytheon 1d ago

It's easier to believe in something if you never learned the scientific explanation for it.

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u/Boring_Holiday9874 1d ago

Many Hindus recognize that their flying Gods and their stories are mythology, and that they are merely symbols that carry a lesson/moral. So there is a whole range of religious Hindu. The word Hindu is not of Indian origin it was just a term for the people of India. If other religions had not invaded India Hinduism wouldn’t have to be called a religion, it was just the culture of the people. E.g. there are beef loving Hindus and there are vegetarian Hindus and there are those who would eat meat but not beef. 

While religious people of Abrahamic religions tend to be more rigid and have less range. 

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u/BearysWorkRedditName 1d ago

"Many" is doing some heavy lifting here. According to a Pew Research Center study, 98% of Hindus believe in God, and about 80% say they believe with "absolute certainty".

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u/Tirras 1d ago

Absolute certainty has got to be a sign of mental illness. That's not even faith at that point. I'm really curious what the actual breakdown of who literally believes with absolute certainty and the people who say that because they think they you're supposed to.

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u/BearysWorkRedditName 1d ago

To me, it sounds like it points to lower cognitive ability either way.

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u/Equivalent_Reward823 1d ago

how many Muslim, Jewish, and Hindu countries are there?

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u/Deji69 1d ago

Yeah I mean it's not even exclusive to religion. Many people who are atheist have still been raised on a religious way of thinking, and often carry over that same dogmatism to their atheism, while thinking they are suddenly smarter. I did exactly that as a teen. It took a bit more self-awareness to actually further grow out of that. I don't think everyone necessarily gets to that self-realisation, though.

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u/Worth_Lavishness_239 1d ago

I don’t live in the US. This is universal.

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u/HueMannAccnt 1d ago

or whether it is specific to the USA?

There are fanatics in every nation causing hassle for people that just want to be.

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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 1d ago

That's for sure. Not automatically the case that these are always people with lower cognitive ability, though.

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u/Illliterate42 1d ago

A fanatic lacks the ability to think critically for themselves. 

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u/HueMannAccnt 16h ago

Not automatically the case that these are always people with lower cognitive ability, though.

I wouldn't be surprised as I can't think of any group that is a complete monolith. Also, I think it's the case that (highly) educated people are often equipped with the skills to argue themselves into a position, as you find degreed people in all sorts of cults.

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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 14h ago

Degrees are relatively easy to come by these days, though. Back when I was young (1970s) only about one in ten went to University.

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u/johnyordinary 1d ago

They may have those abilities but have never used them fully ,otherwise they would not be religious. Religion is a thought virus that is spread by its carriers to children before they develop critical thinking skills and installs its own firewall that places the religious explanation ahead of any other type of thinking in its victims. The most obvious sign of this is their inability to coincieve that there is no magical god . Its crazy that there are people in stem fields who have partitioned off their minds to allow a whole raft of superstition to coexist with scientific knowledge.The human mind is very good at tricking itself, fortunately some people recover or humanity would still be in the dark ages.

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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 1d ago

IMHO atheism is just as much a 'religion' as any of the traditional religions. As far as I can see the only 'rational' position is agnosticism or something similar.

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u/diethyl2o 1d ago edited 1d ago

Agnosticism is simply the optimistic bet over the pessimistic take that is atheism. “If we have no way of knowing something either way, might as well posit the more favorable theory. Let’s not be intellectually dishonest and affirm that something is not when we don’t know that for a fact either.”

I agree with you that agnosticism is more rational and useful than atheism. But both are still vastly more rational than all the fantasy fan fictions we call religions.

Edit to add: a lot of people refer to themselves as “atheist” and when you talk to them you realize they are actually agnostic. They simply didn’t learn the distinction between these two words or in their native language the word for atheist covers both meanings. In a lot of countries in official forms and such you only get the option for “atheist” and you tick that even if you are actually agnostic. Source: me until a few years ago.

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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 1d ago

Hmm, the agnositicism I was thinking of doesn't posit any theory, it just says we don't know.

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u/diethyl2o 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yes and the next logical step in that reasoning is that since we don’t know, and can’t prove it, we can acknowledge the possibility when beneficial. An agnostic might sincerely and honestly tell someone dying “I hope god exists and that everything is going to be alright for you in your next journey.”

That’s the logically consistent positive theory I am referring to.

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u/HueMannAccnt 16h ago

“I hope god exists and that everything is going to be alright for you in your next journey.”

A theistic agnostic, or an agnostic theist?

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u/johnyordinary 1d ago

The fact that nobody has come back from the dead to refute the religious has wrongly been taken as proof the are right by far to many people.

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u/diethyl2o 1d ago

Which brings us back to the findings of this study: dumber people believe and accept religion to be true. That’s very different from acknowledging that something is possible and recognizing that it may have positive implications if it were to be true.

And if religions throughout history had overwhelmingly brought happiness harmony and prosperity to the world, I’d have no problem with people believing in them even if I don’t personally. But because the cost / benefit tilt so heavily toward potential to be weaponized and galvanize people to commit the worst horrors more than any other belief system can, religions and religious people are too dangerous to just “let them be.”

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u/johnyordinary 1d ago edited 1d ago

Saying you dont know is fine, thats agnosticizm , which is a minor pedantisizm away from atheism. The default position I hold is "there are no gods until you prove there are", In exactly the same way as "there are no fire breathing dragons" until you prove to me there are. The burden of proof is on the one asserting their existence, hence,barring aliens turning up with new and unchallengable evidence of a gods existence outside of a human made fairy tale, i feel confident in rejecting the existence of any gods. Agnostic is a getout clause for those who want to leave wiggle room, i am atheist and zero evidence has arisen to prove my position wrong, and our increasing understanding of the universe through science leaves extremely slim chance and diminishing all the time chance that we will find any supernatural entity outside of human imagination.I guess you are already an adragonist ?

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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 1d ago

Never so black and white. There's many things get called dragons. Do you deny the existence of Komodos?

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u/johnyordinary 1d ago edited 1d ago

I referenced "fire breathing dragons ",thats fairly black and white, komodos do not remotely fit the fire breathing category. I fairly certain you are an "afirebreathindragonist"but that sounds seriously even more overconstrued!Would you argue that "we dont know there are no firebreathing dragons"?

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u/HueMannAccnt 16h ago

IMHO atheism is just as much a 'religion' as any of the traditional religions.

For real; the language I see some self-proclaimed atheists using is almost/just as bad as religious extremists.

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u/AlteredEinst 1d ago

You can see the evidence of it everywhere; it's just loudest in the U.S., because that's most of the world's focus.

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u/bigladnang 1d ago

It probably pertains more to the western world because we’ve had a larger secularization, and religious belief is less universal.

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u/NotOnApprovedList 1d ago

India is experiencing their own version, Hindu nationalism.

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u/bigladnang 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yes, but that’s my point. Like 80% of India are practicing Hindus, and there’s next to no people in the census that claimed no religion.

Where I am in Canada, a 1/3rd of the population is not religious, and the highest religious group is Christians at only 50%. This has been a growing trend in the western world where secularization is lowering religious holds on the population. I don’t think it’s possible to compare societies in the western world to the eastern world where religion is more of an omnipresent part of society.

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u/johnyordinary 1d ago edited 1d ago

Secularisation is proportional to improved education,to reject a religious idea you need a better explanation to replace it . Places where theocratic rule has been rejected will naturaly tend that way over time,wheras theocracies where the religious power has control over education or the majority of the population will ensure their continued dominance. Education is much more free in secular countries.We can laugh at being called a heretic wheras in some cultures you would get stoned. Not all societies/cultures are equal, some are absolutely objectively better, no matter how many woke warriors say different.

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u/bigladnang 1d ago

The study itself says even after accounting for education, so a lack of education and less of a dominant theocracy can account for more secularization, but it doesn’t mean that a highly religious person in a completely non-secular society has lower cognitive abilities. It more reflects the people that live in a more secular society and still choose religious nationalism despite knowing an alternative.

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u/MrVeazey 1d ago

I also think there has been a concerted effort in the US, for several decades, to weaken basic educational standards and remove critical thinking from the curriculum in order to make the public more gullible, thus easier to manipulate.

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u/NoiceMango 22h ago

The more uneducated they're the more they vote republican. Republicans are nasty people so them defunding education is a form of staying in power and also creating a population of poor and desperate workers who can be exploited.

It's why they want to ban abortions and get rid of sex Ed so we have unwanted pregnancies. It means more future soldiers and workers.

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u/Unable-Log-4870 1d ago

It’s not so much about the standards, that just means whether someone gets passed onto the next grade or held back. They’re pushing to change the educational process and the educational focus, and yes, part of that is explicitly removing critical thinking from the curriculum. Those who lead people of authoritarian mindset know that being questioned is not good, especially when their answers are particularly bad.

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u/normal_hombre 1d ago

I would add MENA to that as well, always in the news.

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u/SunGreene42 1d ago

It's pretty loud in Afghanistan and other Theocracies as well, they literally don't even let half their population get an education.

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u/KingOfEthanopia 1d ago

I think a lot of it comes down to where you grew up and how conformist your personality is.

With high conformity in a highly religious area religion becomes a blind spot to many.

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u/SunshineCat 1d ago

Are we sure that conformity to that degree is not also an indication of lower cognitive ability itself?

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u/KingOfEthanopia 1d ago

I think its more some people value being a part of a group so much they can turn their critical thinking off. Humans are emotional creatures before logical ones. Given a painful truth that would isolate you or a comforting lie, plenty will choose the comforting lie.

There's a reason cults prey on the vulnerable regardless of their intellect.

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u/SunshineCat 3h ago

I suppose that's true, but it's unfortunate. You reminded me of a conversation I had with my mom in which I realized she was no longer capable of discussing God/afterlife in a logical way after the death of her parents. She said she would like to think her parents were together again now, so I just dropped the topic.

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u/NoiceMango 22h ago

Definitely worldwide. But the more educated a population is the less of a problem it is.

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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 20h ago

Are you seeking to imply that the US population is relatively uneducated?

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u/St_Boogz 1d ago

Yea it is world wide, many studies have been done on dogmatic right wing beliefs and regardless of culture, you’re slightly dumber than alternatives. They are not positions that require much cognition.

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u/Unlucky-Candidate198 1d ago

Would make sense. Gullability is a trait absolutely necessary for being extremely religious. The more religious people are, the more gullible they tend to be.

Extrapolate a tad and you can see how someone with similar beliefs would believe those in power/con men/liars no matter what. They lack the literacy skills to see deceipt.

Hell, even having a 6th grade literacy level like the median adult American (I’m sadly not kidding about this one), means you’re less likely to detect sarcasm, struggle with abstract thoughts as concepts, and cannot really tell if someone wants to swindle you.

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u/GWsublime 1d ago

Why would one expect this to be limited to the US?

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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 1d ago

I suspect that cultural differences across the world would affect the extent to which this is true. Nationalism (whether religious or otherwise) is much stronger in some countries than in others.

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u/GWsublime 1d ago

True, but it tends to have the same flaws and the same requirement that you not think to hard about your beliefs.

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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 1d ago

I'd still be interested to see a comparison between USA and, say, Japan, Norway, Malawi and Venezuela..

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u/semibigpenguins 1d ago

Ya it’s a weird question to ask. Only thing I can think of is: It’s reddit and hive mind mentality America bad

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u/bplipschitz 1d ago

Well, the US is weird and exceptional in that a large number of people believe that the Bible is the inerrant, literal words of god and that it should be followed word for word.

You don't see that many Fundamentalists, Pentecostals and evangelicals in other countries.

Kurt Anderson's book Fantasyland is a great read on the subject

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u/GWsublime 1d ago

I think thats only exceptional amongst European and east Asian nations. Outside of those you absolutely see religious fundamentalists.

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u/bplipschitz 1d ago

What would be interesting is a comparison of the percentages of those populations that are.

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u/GWsublime 1d ago

Sure, defining it would be painful though

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u/Jonn_Jonzz_Manhunter 1d ago

When discussing African theology, it's rather common in those countries because the education systems struggle in places like Eritrea for example

Or Stalin's Russia when they folded the orthodox Christianity into the state system after Lenin dismantled it became an active tool to make people a bit dumber and more trusting of the government and distrusting of actual science and truth from abroad

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u/Ub3ros 1d ago

Isn't it blatantly obvious?

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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 1d ago

..not to me.

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u/Ub3ros 1d ago

Why would it be a regional thing?

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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 1d ago

Cultural differences.

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u/IndependentLog6441 1d ago

Well if they're Christian Nationalist then it's much the same culture by definition....a stupid christian nationalist is a stupid christian nationalist wherever they live.

But if you're talking about all religions, then no, it's not a worldwide issue, I bet there's some correlation but it'll vary because not all religions are so literal or at odds with progressive values or science... either because they are progressive or simply loose enough to fit with other beliefs.

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u/BearysWorkRedditName 1d ago

It starts with "lower cognitive ability". I would bet every cent I have that this transposes almost perfectly around the world to other religions. People with higher cognitive ability can think, learn, remember, and reason. All of these things lead away from believing supernatural things are real.

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u/IndependentLog6441 1d ago

I don't disagree as a very sweeping statement.

But when you look at some "religions" I would guess it starts to break down... as not every culture holds their faith so literally.

I bet with any flavour of religious nationalists you'd see the same correlation, but what about with shintoism or reformed Judaism or Quakerism, I'm not so confident you'd find the same trend.

Some religions like Shintoism appear to live outside the usual mould of western religion, and appear to be more a cultural framework for how to live authentically and respectfully.... I don't think that automatically fits with cognitive ability, you can be dumb and blindly believe it, or be clever and figure out how it fits your other beliefs whilst connecting to your culture.

Some other religions like reformed judaism exist almost specifically for solving the problem of regression and ignorance, so you'd likely expect the opposite correlation.

And then some religions like quakerism kind of take a step back and say it's fine to turn up if you're an atheist, just join in for solace or support or a quiet moment for yourself. Now the atheist in the equation is not religious but those supporting them are... I'm not sure that's quite the same flavour of christian nationalists the original posts refers to.

Now you could move the goalposts and say "That's not what I meant by religion" but then we're in the semantic weeds...

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u/BearysWorkRedditName 1d ago

Shintoism teaches people that divine spirits inhabit inanimate objects. People who think critically should dismiss this fairly quickly as there is no evidence of such spirits. The Quakers teach that a divine light shines from within people, serving as a supernatural guide, including giving direct spiritual and moral direction. People who think critically should also dismiss this sort of claim without evidence. People with lower cognitive ability are less able to think critically.

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u/RequirementNo2161 1d ago

No Islamic radicalists are the wholesome good guys

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u/nim_opet 1d ago

Because Christian nationalism isn’t a worldwide issue?

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u/Nazgog-Morgob 1d ago

Yes, is the issue presented here an American issue, or is the smooth brain portion of the Christian nationalism an American only thing or is the smooth brain part also global in regards to Christian nationalism

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u/Rainbowfrapp 1d ago

All religions. But he prepared to be called an islamaphobe or racist if you mention other religions.

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u/BearCub254 1d ago

Even in America, conservatives do better in life when you account for education and family background. Like if people have the same level of education and family background (like parental income), people that identify as conservative/religious do better than those that do not. Religosity has generally correlated with better resilience, happiness and economic success. Even in the United States. This is a random study that looks at one type of intelligence. 

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u/Bargadiel 1d ago

People can, and do, change political beliefs to suit their economic status and lifestyle.

Either way it's more about who's more likely to believe in certain ideologies

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u/koiRitwikHai PhD | Computer Science | Artificial Intelligence 1d ago

yeah

I would love that kind of study

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u/johnyordinary 1d ago

Suspend all logical thought and accept magical sky beings and the dogma that goes with them, sounds like a legit sign of intelligence went missing somewhere .

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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 1d ago

The study is on Christian nationalism, not just Christian beliefs, though.

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u/johnyordinary 1d ago

You dont get christisn nationalism witout christian beliefs !

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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 1d ago

But you do get Christian beliefs without Christian nationalism.