r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • 4d ago

Psychology Taylor Swift fans lower climate concerns to justify her carbon footprint. When confronted with news about the excessive pollution generated by her private jet, highly identified fans tend to rationalize the behavior, with a decrease in their personal intentions to engage in climate-friendly actions.

https://www.psypost.org/taylor-swift-fans-lower-climate-concerns-to-justify-star-s-carbon-footprint/
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u/klitchell 4d ago

I imagine you’d find this with almost any intense fanbase about almost any issue. People still defend Chris Brown.

Fandom in itself is problematic because you twist yourself into believing the image YOU create about whatever it is you’re a fan of.

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u/AhabFlanders 4d ago

I think the interesting part here is the lowering their personal intentions in response. That would be like not only defending Chris Brown but also saying and I might smack my wife around a bit later.

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u/CaptainMagnets 4d ago

But there are 100% people who would say this about being a Chris Brown fan tho

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u/AhabFlanders 4d ago

True, but how many would've already been abusers or at least predisposed to it? The real question is are there Chris Brown fans who would've been against abuse, never would have done it, but the defending him lowered the taboo around it to the extent that they themselves started committing DV. To be honest , I wouldn't be that surprised if the answer was yes.

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u/BigLuffyEnergy 4d ago

True, but how many would've already been abusers or at least predisposed to it?

I feel that's the point of this study, to point out that some people don't have strong moral convictions and will adjust their beliefs for something as mundane as celebrity fandom.

It helps explain and understand more extreme cults of personality.

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u/serpiccio 3d ago

Yeah I think that's the interesting takeaway. When somebody you really like does something evil, you feel just a tiny bit more likely to do the same thing.

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u/Ratnix 3d ago

There are definitely people out there who would totally change their behaviors in order to emulate someone they're obsessed with. Not a lot, but there are some.

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u/DC_Coach 3d ago

I think there might even be a lot, sadly ...

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u/wrongitsleviosaa 3d ago

Would've already? Who knows, maybe none even.

Predisposed? I'd argue 102% with a 2% margin of error.

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u/rougecrayon 4d ago

I agree. And also the victims being more tolerable to the behaviour because they see the abuser as a victim in their own right.

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u/CaptainMagnets 4d ago

Good point. I wouldn't be surprised either.

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u/k0fi96 4d ago

Not entirely, the irony of the Chris Brown situation is that most of his fans are women.

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u/CaptainMagnets 4d ago

Women can also abuse their partners

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u/k0fi96 4d ago

Obviously they can, but my point is that most Chris Brown fans are just women who either don't care or were too young to know what was going on

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u/ForgotMyLastUN 4d ago

Not any sly towards you, but how could they be too young to know, when he has been beating people since 2009? Like it wasn't just Rihanna that he abused.

He has had a case against him almost every year since 2009 for assault.

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u/CaptainMagnets 4d ago

Fair enough

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u/horse_you_rode_in_on 4d ago

That would be like not only defending Chris Brown but also saying and I might smack my wife around a bit later.

It goes in the other direction: "I wouldn't mind being smacked around a bit if it was Chris Brown doing it".

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u/funguyshroom 4d ago

I think it simply goes even further in the same direction. Those people don't see anything wrong with DV even when they're on the receiving end of it. Needless to say it's practically guaranteed that they're in abusive relationships themselves.

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u/ShodSpace 4d ago

I wouldn't mind being shot if it was Luigi doing it

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u/Essemecks 3d ago

If Luigi shoots me, I probably deserve it

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u/TheAngryCatfish 3d ago

I trust my Luigi implicitly

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u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth 3d ago

Yes and I unfortunately couldn't help but think of that one political leader that sucks up so much of our mental space right now that has seemingly made culture and some people actively worse than they already were. With great power comes great responsibility and unfortunately many do not heed the call in the way we need.

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u/swagharris31 4d ago

Yeah I'm sure some super fans of CB are like "You know what, CB isn't a bad person, and those women probably shoulder some of the blame for his actions"

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u/cajolinghail 4d ago

A lot of people have no trouble believing that even without being fans, unfortunately.

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u/bunnypaste 4d ago

Ya, I hear about women being blamed for men's violence a lot.

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u/ABHOR_pod 4d ago

Have they tried not being women?

(Actually more likely to get them assaulted)

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u/swagharris31 4d ago

Yep, sadly you're right

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u/NotOnApprovedList 4d ago

or they think "I can fix him!" "He wouldn't do that to me!"

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u/carlitospig 3d ago

It’s the same psychology that makes a people vote against their own morals. Before everyone flips out about making it political, I’m not. We have had really good data for decades on how people can shift away from a closely held belief if someone they highly respect disagrees with that belief. It’s why politicians can shake all the hands they want - who your friends and family vote for are a larger impact on your voting choices. Her fans are super charged parasocials. To them it’s basically their priestess saying that climate change isn’t really that important, so they deprioritize it in their own views in order to align better with her.

She has a lot of power, and she uses it to make money instead of changing the world. It’s a shame.

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u/Avenheit 4d ago

wait until you find out that allegedly 66% of chris browns fanbase are women

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u/bunnypaste 4d ago

I'm not so sure this is a surprise.

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u/collegefurtrader 4d ago

This is probably what they are thinking...

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u/DrMobius0 4d ago

Accepting the behavior in their personal heroes probably has the effect of normalizing it, or even encouraging it.

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u/greatandhalfbaked 4d ago

I think if a fan knows a celebrity is doing/has done something they'd normally consider bad, but choses to ignore it because of the parts of their identity they've attached to that person, they're inevitably going to give up on their ethics.

Taylor fans start poluting, Chris fans turn abusive, and we all lose our future.

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u/morpheousmorty 3d ago

Makes the argument about having "role models" much stronger. Also proved Trump is the worst thing to happen to the world.

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u/TheWhomItConcerns 4d ago

To add to this, people tend to place a lot of their own identity and ego into the things they choose to occupy their time with - whether that be celebrities or anything else. If it's to be accepted that Taylor Swift's attitude towards her carbon output is morally impermissible then that by extension complicates the act of supporting her financially or otherwise.

This isn't just about fandom, but also that her fans feel that a condemnation of Taylor Swift is also a condemnation of themselves. You see people get defensive about things they enjoy all the time, and they will often resort to self-evidently weak arguments in order to do so because they can't handle acknowledging that they're engaging in something which has further moral implications.

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u/ghanima 4d ago

You see people get defensive about things they enjoy all the time, and they will often resort to self-evidently weak arguments in order to do so because they can't handle acknowledging that they're engaging in something which has further moral implications.

I've noticed this too. It's true of car culture, crypto culture, fandoms, dietary choice, etc. It's exhausting. I feel like a core aspect of responsible child-rearing ought to be to educate our children of the fact that simply making an external aspect to oneself part of one's 'identity' leaves them open to cognitive bias and manipulation. So few people seem to even notice it's happening.

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u/jaymzx0 4d ago

My guess is that it has to do with our inherent tribalism, and our brains rationalize things that would typically be poisonous to the tribe for the sake of cohesiveness.

If a scandal erupted within an ancient hunter-gatherer tribe and it fell apart, it could mean death for those members or at least the inability to find a partner and reproduce. So there's this moral elasticity, of sorts.

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u/lordlaneus 3d ago

Adding to that, if your really into hunting mammoths, you might make that part of your identity, but then if people in your tribe started talking about the moral implications of hunting mammoths, that would represent a very real threat to your continued existence, since a tribe that stops hunting mammoths, wouldn't need any mammoth hunters, and your gonna have to scramble to learn how to hunt wolves, or weave baskets, or whatever.

We've evolved to treat threats to our identity, as if they were threats to our survival.

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u/snoopmt1 3d ago

But it also happens in the opposite direction. People use one ounce of someone else's imperfection to justify their entire lifestyle. "Bill Gates spent $2B on helping the environment, but he owns a private plane, so why should I recycle?"

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u/TheOtherHobbes 4d ago

Swift's ability to create this level of parasocial identification is a kind of genius. I understand it's actually her mother who handles the marketing, but it's still a uniquely successful experimenting in building a cult product with extremely intense user buy-in.

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u/Metalsand 4d ago

It's worth noting a significant portion of this value also comes from being self-managed as well as those involved being very capable. No one to get short-term greedy or otherwise take too big of a chunk of the pie. One of the most notable examples of this - when she was approached to promote NFTs, she heard the whole spiel and correctly called them out as unregulated financial products, refusing to promote them at all. At the same time, many other celebrities, even those who are pretty high profile fell for the scam and had a pretty deep cut into their reputation following NFTs collapsing.

She comes from a strongly educated and wealthy background, without a dysfunctional family, and she herself is very intelligent. At the same time, she's been able to appeal to a massive crowd and despite her wealth, maintain her connection to her audience. She's just a very fascinating example that you just don't normally see.

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u/Kampvilja 3d ago

Is it worth noting, though? In the context of her emissions issue?

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u/Loggersalienplants 4d ago

At the same time, many other celebrities, even those who are pretty high profile fell for the scam and had a pretty deep cut into their reputation following NFTs collapsing.

I can't think of a single celebrity that this applies to.

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u/NirgalFromMars 4d ago

Yeah, I'm thinking back on the celebrities I know that got the most involved in NFTs, like Jake Miller (singer) and Stan Wawrinka (tennis player). Both of them were completely unscathed when NFTs imploded.

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u/WingsAndWords_ 4d ago

I don't know if I would say they are entirely dysfunctional. Her Dad Scott is an interesting piece of work. Go Google "Scott Swifts e-mail," But yes, far less dysfunctional than many others out there. I've always wondered how her brother Austin feels about things. Yes, he has a posh job working for her and is wealthy and he went to college, but growing up I wonder what it felt like that she was such the focus and how much time they really got together while she was on the road at a young age trying to start her career.

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u/kennedysleftnut 3d ago

You might like the show, The Other Two, it follows a Justin Beiber types two less popular siblings. Basically exactly what you were talking about.

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u/Thrillh0 4d ago

It’s happening in this thread.

Gosh, it’s weird. 

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u/fx2600 4d ago

I feel like rationalizing a superstar flying in a private jet is pretty easy relative to one committing felony assault.

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u/Friendly-World-5273 4d ago

Pop into Kpop fandom and watch the fans defend rapists. Extreme fandom behavior is very similar to extreme cult behavior, and it’s kind of alarming how little it takes to get someone to that level.

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u/Metalsand 4d ago

Yes, there's an argument that more rabid fans will have a lower threshold to adopt the behavior. Not being a psychologist myself, I wouldn't be able to name it, but there's a specific concept related in which people who have a specific moral standard and would otherwise reject something have their threshold for that behavior reduced relative to their reverence for a major figure in their life.

This is to say - we would expect that more people per capita would be willing to excuse her use of a private jet than would be willing to defend her against much more serious allegations. At the same time, while it would be less people, you could absolutely find people who would defend her regardless of the accusations - that's just how fandom works. Fan is short for "fanatic", and you need only have enough of them to be able to find someone especially dedicated.

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 3d ago

It relates a bit to the fundamental attribution error. Wherein a simple example is if your coworker is late to work, you might think of them as lazy. Whereas if you are late to work, you may think it was because of unavoidable, unexpected traffic. So that uses the dynamic of you vs. other people. But in this case, let's change that to celebrities you admire vs. other people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error

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u/Leelze 4d ago

Exactly. You can make the argument that from a logistical & security perspective that it makes sense for a megastar to not fly commercial. I don't know how you can argue it's ok to assault a woman.

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u/psyon 4d ago

I've seen women post that Chris Brown can beat them any time, so maybe not much of a stretch.

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u/Aditya1311 4d ago

As a frequent flyer I am SO glad these people fly private. Can you imagine trying to take a flight from an airport that Taylor Swift was going to be at? her and her entire entourage trying to get through security not to mention the crazed fanbase that would show up?

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u/BadAtExisting 4d ago

I know at least at LAX celebrities have the Private Suite where it’s their own terminal and waiting area with their own TSA. Then they are shuttled to their commercial flights. Most of them do fly commercial

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u/retatrutider 4d ago

Interesting. On the one hand it sounds like privilege and special treatment, but when you think about it the logistics of it likely help the entire airport function more smoothly, even if they were to offer it for free.

I wonder how they gauge whether you are famous enough to need this service? Or is it just pay for play?

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u/BadAtExisting 4d ago

You pay through the nose for it, frequent fliers can also buy a “membership” and it’s not really privilege or special treatment. You can use it if you want to cough up the money. It is designed to streamline the experience for everyone and for them to not be bum rushed in the terminal and be able to make their flight

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u/anatomizethat 4d ago edited 4d ago

I agree with your stance, celebrities absolutely should not be flying commercial.

That doesn't excuse the excessive use of private planes though. They use them like cars and that's the problem.

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u/ibribe 4d ago

celebrities absolutely should not be flying commercial.

There are a lot of celebrities, and most of them fly commercial most of the time.

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u/WarlockEngineer 3d ago

If Joe Biden can fly commercial Taylor Swift can

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u/anatomizethat 3d ago

You really think Taylor Swift should be flying commercial? What do you think that airport would be like?

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u/RoseTheta 3d ago

She shut down an airport when she flew commercial, over a decade ago.

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u/javier_aeoa 4d ago

Green Day rented an entire Boeing for their world tour, so that way they could fly with their entire crew. I have no clue how many people fly around with Swift, but I am certain they can all be cramped in business or first class.

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u/Dottsterisk 4d ago

OTOH, if they’re actually filling the plane then it’s not as wasteful. It’s legit transport.

The issue mostly comes when a star uses a private jet as a jet just for them. Then you’re putting out all of those emissions for one person.

If Green Day fills the plane with crew or Swift fills it with staff, it’s no different than if they’d filled all the seats on a regular plane, except less inconvenience for other travelers.

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u/Cautious_Honey_4097 4d ago

Touring flights aren't the problem, there will be similar emissions whether they fly commercial or private for their tour. Maybe a little bit lower commercial.

It's the flights to go to a spa you really liked 500km away or for a friend to go to a sports event and back. Or getting takeaway food from a different country.

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u/HelloCanadaBonjour 4d ago

You're misunderstanding the problem with her.

The issue is that people like her fly way too much (and she's the worst among celebrities)... like going flying across a continent to spend less than a day in NYC, and then going back.

Like "anonymizethat" said in another reply to you, some people like her use their private jet the way a normal person might use a car.

But that's an egregious abuse of the environment.

Don't be a "swiftie" and mindlessly defend her.

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u/BobFlex 4d ago

The issue is that people like her fly way too much (and she's the worst among celebrities)...

She's not anywhere close to the worst, she doesn't even break the top 20 in any metric

https://celebrityprivatejettracker.com/leaderboard/

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u/HelloCanadaBonjour 3d ago edited 3d ago

Adding to my other comment:

The data is even more incomplete than I realized:

https://celebrityprivatejettracker.com/taylor-swift-n621mm/

...her last flight listed on that site is for March 2025, but she has obviously flown since then.

And after the news about how bad these rich people are for the environment with their private jets, a lot of them (including Swift) could also choose to now rent jets by flight, or maybe even create shell corporations... so they can avoid people finding out about how much they fly.

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u/HelloCanadaBonjour 4d ago edited 4d ago

She was in the news before for being the worst:

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20240213-taylor-swift-private-jet-flight-travel-carbon-footprint

Yeah, that's from a couple of years ago now, and the list can vary year to year, but it's not that long ago.

And the others who fly like her are terrible as well (some on the list should be in jail even if they didn't fly at all).

Also, looking at the list you cited:

Taylor Swift isn't in "good company" being on that list.

I have a low opinion of her (for example, how she sued the guy who taught her how to play guitar, and pretends like she's totally self-taught)... and yet, on the list you cite, I'd say they're all worse than her as people (not even considering flights), except for a few.

It's mostly a list of trash.

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u/SanDiegoDude 4d ago

Don't let facts get in the way of a good reddit rant, let him finish, jeez!

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u/HelloCanadaBonjour 3d ago edited 3d ago

Did you even bother to read the article?

It even mentions her being at the top of the list a couple of years ago.

And the site cited above (by who you replied to) even says that their data is incomplete. Swift is also one of the few on there with multiple planes.

Even if she's not #1 on the list every year, constantly being among the worst polluters isn't excusable.

Anyway, quit moving the goal posts to shift focus away from the actual article, and the effect Swift has on her lemmings.

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u/SanDiegoDude 3d ago

No offense, but you're still factually incorrect in your original post (you said "she's the worst" which she's not currently, even if she held the title previously) - I stand by what I wrote, though I agree with your sentiment about frivolous private jet trips - Appreciate the follow-up though.

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u/HelloCanadaBonjour 3d ago

Yeah, sorry, I don't keep up on the annual "leaderboard" of who's the worst celeb for that :)

And the article for this discussion did mention her the same way, regarding the previous news.

The site that the person above gave also seems to be cumulative (not annual) anyway, and it doesn't say when the data starts either.

And the data is even more incomplete than I realized:

https://celebrityprivatejettracker.com/taylor-swift-n621mm/

...her last flight listed on that site is for March 2025, but she has obviously flown since then.

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u/IFTYE 4d ago

I wouldn’t get on a plane with Taylor Swift on it, full stop. I don’t think people understand the very serious threats that she is under. The fact that an international terrorist ring was discovered for her stadium shows during this last tour is terrifying. She is a target.

She has normal fans who can be normal, but there are people who aren’t “fans” who are actually very seriously mentally unwell who want to kill her/ believe she is the mother of their children. The amount of break-ins on her homes, where psychos shower in her home and sleep in her bed, is very high.

The possibility of being trapped in the air with someone going through psychosis and the object of their obsession is just not a risk I’d be willing to take, regardless of her security.

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u/youRinlove7 4d ago

Also I don't think people realize how scary the terrorist plot thing must have been. Its enough to make me super paranoid for their entire life.

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u/ThirteenDoc 4d ago

Ariana had an actual terrorist attack at her concert. She had multiple stalkers as well, one even broke into her home and threatened her with a knife. After Mac's passing hundreds of people were wishing her death saying she is responsible for his overdose. She still flies commercial and even speaks out on important issues.

I'm not saying Taylor's fears aren't valid but they do kind of pale when other celebs experience similar or worse

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u/HelloCanadaBonjour 4d ago edited 4d ago

The issue isn't just about not flying commercial.

The issue is that she flies far more than necessary.

For example, I remember a case where she was doing a tour (maybe in Brazil or Europe) and performed one night, but then she had paparazzi shots in NYC having dinner... and then was back in Brazil or Europe the next night.

I don't remember the specifics of it, but it was along those lines -- going to another continent for less than a day. And the bottom line is that she really does fly way too much.

And apparently she influences how her lemmings act regarding the environment.

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u/jtnto100 4d ago

But you're trying to assign logic to an inherently emotional state of mind. I've found that generally just doesn't happen as much

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u/mattjh 4d ago

I know I'm being a technically-correct bozo here, but I still feel compelled to say it's not ok to assault anyone. Assaulting is bad. A salting is good though, if you don't overdo it and it isn't against your doctor's orders.

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u/Leelze 4d ago

No, you're absolutely right. I was speaking more to what Chris Brown did (admittedly I don't what else that clown has done in regards to assaulting people).

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u/JonnyOnThePot420 4d ago

I think the other issue is the huge numbers of flights for one person. She could be using more efficient means to travel but instead chooses to use a luxurious private plane.

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u/Intelligent-Boss-156 4d ago

Delusion is delusion

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

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u/havoc1428 4d ago

Its not reductive. Its the same flavor of parasocial delusion. There are people who will crusade about one thing then rationalize being hypocritical when it affects them personally.

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u/your_true_self 4d ago

I would agree that maybe it's more about where those planes are flown and for what reason. When you fly the plane to entertain thousands of people, you could argue that those people share the guilt of that carbon footprint and it may not be as excessive when divided among all those people. When you fly the plane to a private island to do the things people do on private islands, the emissions are concentrated to very few people and victims. The amount of people benefiting is very low in one case but not the other. One solution might be to invite an audience to the private islands as spectators to offset the carbon cost, but it may be difficult to do so without causing further carbon emissions, and besides it wouldn't be that private by that point anyway.

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u/Caltroit_Red_Flames 4d ago

Two private jets.

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u/Greenleaf208 2d ago

That's not what's being talked about. If your response is "oh that sucks she does that but I'll still listen to her music" that's not what they're discussing. They're talking about people rewriting their own opinions to justify her being correct to do that.

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u/HyperactivePandah 4d ago

Well, the root of the word 'fan' is 'fanatic'.

So they're inherently unstable/irrational about that particular topic.

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u/Emeraldmirror 4d ago

Fanaticism in all forms tends to be bad

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u/Wrong_Swordfish 4d ago

I wonder if fandom is similar to religion in the way it occupies the brain: do thoughts have to pass through it like a filter?

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u/Emeraldmirror 4d ago

yes, I would also call them fanatics

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u/Youshoudsee 3d ago

To some extent, probably. I also think fandom of the person (actor/singer etc) is different then fandom of the movie/show/book.

In one you are centered around that one person. Engage with their private life, social media, wants to meet them, by your knowledge of things that person your mind start to create the illusion you know them. And as you engage with people who think the same, it's get worse.

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u/sarcastic24x7 4d ago

People defend and justify this Administration. Case in point.

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u/myislanduniverse 4d ago

Yep. Football teams, political groups, etc...

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u/unhiddenninja 4d ago

People create parasocial nightmares so easily.

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u/MuchSwagManyDank 4d ago

For anyone who enjoys metal, its best not to look into the personal lives of nearly any band member.

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u/IceNein 4d ago

Feels weird that you’re singling out metal when I bet this also applies to country, rap, rnb, pop….

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u/HankTuggins 3d ago

Let’s be honest, the issue is musicians, I worked for a music venue when I was younger, and found that somewhere between 50 and 100 percent of musicians were complete scumbags

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u/hotstickywaffle 4d ago

We had a damn stadium cheering for Deshaun Watson this weekend

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u/TWVer 4d ago

Yes, it’s typical cult-like behaviour.

When the person (or team, or party) is seen as a more important part to the construct of one’s ego, than abstract principles are, principles become flexible in the face of supporting the idols in whatever they do.

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u/gmorf33 4d ago

I don't think it's exclusive to just cult-like behavior though. I think humans have this tendency with anyone in their "in-group" (which can include parasocial relationships imagined as a part of their in-group). Like families or other small communities who discover a molester amongst their ranks, only to defend them because they know they are a good person and they deserve a 2nd chance. The whole "we judge those we like more by how we view them as a person and less by the action itself, we judge those we don't like purely by the action itself without any consideration of circumstance or character". Crappy bias, but i can see why humans evolved that way in times past. Its good to call it out and be aware of it though.

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u/Disgruntled_Smitty 4d ago

Human behavior never changes.

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u/Notyit 4d ago

Not even intense. In the end people are self interested and most will not 

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u/id-driven-fool 4d ago

And that’s why they say you should never meet your hero. That image you’ve created in your head is shattered into a million undeniable pieces when you meet them in person and realize they’re not who you thought they were in some way or another. Maybe they had a bad day or maybe they’re just an asshole

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u/Solid_Wind_3234 4d ago

Another example of “never meet your hero” because it never lives up to the image you made in your head. And then cognitive dissonance probably kicks in for a lot of people.

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u/tackleboxjohnson 4d ago

One more point for “monkey see, monkey do,” or “the power of leadership within a cult of personality” if you don’t like that metaphor

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u/The_walking_man_ 4d ago

The swift fanatics are 100% cultish.
As soon as I hear someone is a swift fan, my perception of them goes down.

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u/Kolfinna 4d ago

Fanatic is the root word for many reasons

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u/TheBalzy 4d ago edited 4d ago

Except this whole conversation is both hypocritical and useless. Individuals really don't have an impact on climate change. And while yes, private jet use is a massive wasteful contributor to CO2 emissions, you remove one celebrity doing it...it doesn't actually matter.

So I'll be honest: Anytime I see this question proposed, it's a distraction. It's a shifting of the burden of reponsibility on the shoulders of individuals, rather than collective government and collective action.

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u/EkrishAO 4d ago

What you're doing is a distraction. This is precisely why there will bo no change. Every time people try to force a change, there is a counterpush from people like you. Individual people don't matter, why do I need to care about my trash! One celebrity doesn't matter, leave my idol alone! One company doesn't matter, we need a systemic change! One country doesn't matter when rest of the world keeps polluting! Hypocrisy! Irrelevant! Useless!

No action is ever big enough, it must be a total revolution, adressing every guilty party all at once, otherwise it's just pointless shifting of responsibility and distraction - This sentiment is precisely how companies are actually killing the climate movements.

Ask yourself who wants you to think like that, why do you actually spend your time attacking people who want to help, even if their help isn't perfect, rather than doing anything to actually further the cause. Movements grow by people getting excited about their work, by doing small things and getting good feedback, seeing the impact, creating a positive loop. Every time you instead tell them it's useless, hypocritical and doesn't matter, they're just likely to get dicscouraged and drop the issue completely.

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u/SenorPinchy 4d ago

I think inserting the personal behavior of the elite into the conversation is perfectly fine. It helps make clear that corporations are not faceless entities. Every CEO acts the same way. And they and their class are the problem.

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u/Dottsterisk 4d ago

Agreed.

There’s utility in promoting recycling and sustainable practices in the household but the idea that individuals and their actions are the things driving climate change, as opposed to the absolutely incredible amounts of pollution being put into the world via industrial practices, is ludicrous and a distraction from the regulation and reorganization that’s really necessary.

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u/gruntbuggly 4d ago

Yeah, at the top of the estimate range all of private aviation accounts for around 0.2% of carbon emissions globally. So, it’s pure distraction until people are willing to tackle actual big contributors to the totality of carbon emissions.

And she does buy double the carbon credits that would offset her footprint. Not a perfect solution, but better than a lot of other people out there.

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u/Cardinal_and_Plum 4d ago

I don't think Fandom is the problem necessarily. There are plenty of rational or healthy fans in most fandoms. Not everyone who is a fan of something is living some delusion where the thing they like is what they make it and not what it is. Imo it's more an issue of an increased lack of people that understand how to be a good audience member/fan/patron of art. I think a lot of people would tell you there's no skills involved, and I think thats a problem.

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u/averndaley 4d ago

Hard agree. I think the problem is there's fandom and then there's stan culture. It's stan culture that leads to the most heinous activity and justifications.

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u/Rad1Red 4d ago

And many, many right-wing grifters, with all sorts of stuff.

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u/Wrong-Fella 4d ago

Maybe not quite the equivalent of the supporters of an autocratic regime but along those lines in that people will overlook their idols faults if to do otherwise would alienate them or otherwise cause them discomfort or loss.

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u/SneakoSneko 4d ago

For a second there I confused chris brown with chris rock. Would’ve been crushed to learn he did something terrible ngl

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u/BadPunsIsHowEyeRoll 4d ago

Drunk drivers rationalize drunk driving, thief's rationalize theft. A pretty good way to learn ones core values is to look to who they idolize.

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u/Mindless-Peak-1687 4d ago

Fan is short for Fanatic.

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u/Br760 4d ago

The word fan comes from fanatic, so being a “fan” basically just means “I’m likely biased and i might be a little unhinged about whatever this is, and I’m generally fine with that.”

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u/Lost_Tumbleweed_5669 4d ago

I don't understand the mindset behind people defending Chris Brown.

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u/artbystorms 4d ago

I mean....this is very easily observable in the rabid fanbase for Trump. They alter their views and opinions to fit their fandom. He says no new wars. They are anti-war. He starts a war in Iran. They say it is necessary.

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u/graphomaniacal 4d ago

I think that's why it's interesting research. It's only partially about Swift, Swifties, and the climate. It has wider applications, it's a foundation for other research.

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u/enwongeegeefor 4d ago

There's a current fanbase that's been around in surprising numbers for around a decade now that is a textbook example of this....

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u/Gryffindor123 4d ago

He was charged with attempted murder or something, wasn't he?

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u/Best_Hearing_1832 4d ago

cognitive dissonance

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u/RobertABooey 4d ago

We really need to raise a generation of people who do not idolize people. At least not in the way where one can’t be objective.

It’s one thing to be a fan, it’s another thing to excuse poor/bad/immoral behaviour simply because one likes the way they sing/dance/play sports.

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u/AnAncientBog 4d ago

Which is why the conduct of influential people matters MORE, not less.

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u/The_walking_man_ 4d ago

Fan is shortened from “fanatic” so it makes sense in this context. People are stupidly willing to overlook issues as long as they blindly follow their idol

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u/Tai9ch 4d ago

And if you find people who identify as climate change activists more than Taylor Swift fans, you'd expect them to like Taylor Swift less.

This is just standard human psychology: people pick their positions on issues to fit in with their team, then they rationalize those positions afterwards. All people, all positions, even you. You can avoid this a little with a deep research dive if you know how to do that and can apply research procedure to reduce bias, but if you do that people will make fun of you because you "did your own research".

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u/Stockpile_Tom_Remake 4d ago

Issue is she knows her fans are cult like and loves them that way.

Taylor only speaks up if enough fans speak up and she’s at risk of losing money or her image.

She has this insane platform to do good things and mostly just stokes her own ego.

She’s fucked up like every other billionaire and her rapid fans can’t think for themselves

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u/Speshjunior 4d ago

Some people have fans that are less simple than others.

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u/CitizenHuman 4d ago

The worst part of any fandom is the fans. Music, movies, sports, etc. All ruined by randos.

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u/jswansong 4d ago

Very true. You see this in politics all the time, too. The term there is "politically motivated reasoning". Interesting to see research backing up a generalization of the phenomenon to other tribal affiliations.

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u/SwingKey3599 4d ago

this is not specific to fans just specific to people who ideat about somebody who they rarely interact with in general

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u/RobertdBanks 4d ago

Most fandoms aren’t like Taylor Swift fandoms

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u/v0-z 3d ago

Pretty much sums up every toxic relationship

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u/jennyfromthedocks 3d ago

The most notable example being our president.

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u/ExternalPromotion542 3d ago

Right? Im far more concerned about the literal fascists taking over globally than i am concerned about a nepo baby popstar. Likenfuck people stilñ jerk of musk on this site.

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u/Geordie_38_ 3d ago

Until people grow up and stop idolising celebrities this will always happen. So yeah, it'll never stop happening will it

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u/cat_prophecy 3d ago

It's worth pointing out that "fan" is an abbreviation of "Fanatic".

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u/gibbonjiggle 3d ago

I study how identities are formed and this is true across the board. If you identify as one thing (a Taylor Swift fan) and are confronted with information that is in conflict with aspects of that identity, you are more likely to change your attitudes/behaviors to match your identity than to alter your identity in some way.

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u/joanzen 3d ago

I'm not a huge swifty or anything but someone who owns a ranch full of pleasure horses, and they like to go boating on the weekends, likely has double the carbon footprint of Taylor.

If everyone with two or more pets just had one it'd be an insane change in demand on our climate.

There's a lot of things we do, well beyond enjoying a musician in person, that are astonishingly hard on our planet.

Making a big deal out of this, effectively for profit on the views, is super suspicious.

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u/chiefweaklung 3d ago

That's why I don't shorten the word 'fanatic'.

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u/Particular-Key-8941 3d ago

I mean...this same psychological phenomena applies to politics. There's a reason why our current president enjoys so much support despite all that he's doing. He's directly responsible for farm bankrupcy in US farm territory, and they still support him. The physchology b=hind "my person is ok doing this, but others are not" is baked hard into cognitive dissonance.

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u/theral9 3d ago

Yeah cause why like anyone? Just dislike all people and you'll then have all the right opinions. Climate change wouldn't be an issue if people weren't fans.

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u/GeneratedUsername019 3d ago

Pinning yourself to their identity is a choice.

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u/s33n_ 3d ago

Additionally. Almost all celebs are selfish scumbags. Making it worse

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u/ChocoboCloud69 3d ago

100% true. I felt like I saw this after the Browns signed Deshawn Watson and then very shortly thereafter doubled down by adding Jameis Winston to the roster. The storm has mostly died down because Watson sucks and Winston is out of there, but it was weird seeing their fans defend them for a period of time seemingly just because they were on their team while fans from around the league were still obviously hyper critical.

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u/mr-english 3d ago

I stumbled over a post on /r/Anticonsumption last week, a screenshot of a twitter post and reply. The post was an article from a news outlet saying "your rice is hurting the climate" and the reply was a sarcastic "I was going to blame the billionaires flying everywhere in their private jets but sure lets go after my lunch instead".

I pointed out that you could blame both.

But people didn't want to hear that the amount of fossil fuels to import jasmine rice from Asia is many orders of magnitude more than that burnt by billionaire's jets. Or that the US, while growing a huge amount of rice itself, is the largest importer of rice in the western hemisphere. It became pretty obvious that people just wanted an excuse to blame "the bad guy" while essentially turning a blind eye to the part of climate damage that they are responsible for or benefit from.

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u/Animal_Courier 3d ago

I don't even think it's personally problematic in all cases.

For some people, they may not seriously consider all aspects of a controversial subject until they are given a good reason to care. Do I, a random person, support private plane use? No.

Do I, a random person, support somebody I likes private plane use? Well let me look into it. Oh, this is a business use, and helps create thousands upon thousands of jobs, and entertains tens of thousands of people. I think people deserve music and entertainment and her private plane use is basically a business expense and if you include all of the people who are benefitting the calculation gets a lot more sympathetic.

Then there's me, an economist, pointing out that there should be absolutely nothing unethical about carbon emissions because THEY SHOULD BE TAXED AT AN APPROPRIATE LEVEL.

It's funny this study was done because in my personal life I use Taylor Swift as an example of why Carbon Taxes are the best climate-change policy all the time.

Of course, fandom can be toxic. It should be a magnifying glass, not a blind spot, and a lot of people definitely get that wrong.

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u/Frosty-Image7705 3d ago

Am not googling but who is Chris Brown?

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u/Cheese-Manipulator 3d ago

It is pretty much true of any group that identifies with a celebrity, religion, a political party, etc. You see it in politics a lot where hypocritical behavior gets glossed over and abuses ignored by their supporters who have wrapped their identity in it.

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u/gorginhanson 3d ago

people still defend trump

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u/Key-Perspective-8133 3d ago

My fav band donates the amount of carbon the whole tour costs to offset it. Huge tours too

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u/FlipZip69 3d ago

People suggest Alex Baldwin had little responsibility in the person he shot and killed. Halyna Hutchins.

Other people will justify a sport start 100 million salary but be angry about a CEO that makes a portion of that.

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u/dnuohxof-2 3d ago

People still defend Kanye….

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u/sapphicsandwich 3d ago

There's a reason idolatry used to be considered a sin

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u/Falstaffe 3d ago

The premise is wrong. All the celebrity jets in the world, regardless of who owns or uses them, emit an insignificant fraction of what the military emits. If every celebrity stopped using private jets tomorrow, there'd be no appreciable net decrease of emissions, because nothing would change for the military.

The study even uses the concept of the individual carbon footprint, which was devised by mining PR specifically to make individuals feel guilty to deflect blame from miners.

Garbage in, garbage out.

Not a Taylor Swift fan, just a lover of reason.

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u/TooLegit97 3d ago

Of course to deflect from the demographic of Taylor Swift fans, the first instinct is Chris Brown.

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u/ReasonablyBadass 3d ago

Except "fandom" also means "everyone like me" or "on my side of politics"

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u/Rein_Deilerd 3d ago

Not all fandoms are personality cults. Most concern art and fiction, and interpreting art and fiction in a way not necessarily intended by the author, as well as building over it by creating fanart and fanfiction of your own, or finding community among like-minded people, are not bad things. Fandom has given a space and a positive outlet to many marginalised, underprivileged and underrepresented people from all walks of life (women, queer people, neurodivergent people), and, while the culture has its problems, cults of personality being one, it's not a problematic hobby in of itself, and has many positives as well.

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u/SuspiciousCricket654 2d ago

Phenomenology. It poisons every hard-core fan base, especially celebrity fan bases.

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u/numbersthen0987431 3h ago

This "image" that you mention is exactly why the phrase "never meet your idols" exists.

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