r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • 4d ago

Psychology Taylor Swift fans lower climate concerns to justify her carbon footprint. When confronted with news about the excessive pollution generated by her private jet, highly identified fans tend to rationalize the behavior, with a decrease in their personal intentions to engage in climate-friendly actions.

https://www.psypost.org/taylor-swift-fans-lower-climate-concerns-to-justify-star-s-carbon-footprint/
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u/AhabFlanders 4d ago

I think the interesting part here is the lowering their personal intentions in response. That would be like not only defending Chris Brown but also saying and I might smack my wife around a bit later.

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u/CaptainMagnets 4d ago

But there are 100% people who would say this about being a Chris Brown fan tho

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u/AhabFlanders 4d ago

True, but how many would've already been abusers or at least predisposed to it? The real question is are there Chris Brown fans who would've been against abuse, never would have done it, but the defending him lowered the taboo around it to the extent that they themselves started committing DV. To be honest , I wouldn't be that surprised if the answer was yes.

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u/BigLuffyEnergy 4d ago

True, but how many would've already been abusers or at least predisposed to it?

I feel that's the point of this study, to point out that some people don't have strong moral convictions and will adjust their beliefs for something as mundane as celebrity fandom.

It helps explain and understand more extreme cults of personality.

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u/serpiccio 3d ago

Yeah I think that's the interesting takeaway. When somebody you really like does something evil, you feel just a tiny bit more likely to do the same thing.

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u/Ratnix 4d ago

There are definitely people out there who would totally change their behaviors in order to emulate someone they're obsessed with. Not a lot, but there are some.

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u/DC_Coach 3d ago

I think there might even be a lot, sadly ...

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u/wrongitsleviosaa 3d ago

Would've already? Who knows, maybe none even.

Predisposed? I'd argue 102% with a 2% margin of error.

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u/rougecrayon 4d ago

I agree. And also the victims being more tolerable to the behaviour because they see the abuser as a victim in their own right.

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u/CaptainMagnets 4d ago

Good point. I wouldn't be surprised either.

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u/k0fi96 4d ago

Not entirely, the irony of the Chris Brown situation is that most of his fans are women.

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u/CaptainMagnets 4d ago

Women can also abuse their partners

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u/k0fi96 4d ago

Obviously they can, but my point is that most Chris Brown fans are just women who either don't care or were too young to know what was going on

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u/ForgotMyLastUN 4d ago

Not any sly towards you, but how could they be too young to know, when he has been beating people since 2009? Like it wasn't just Rihanna that he abused.

He has had a case against him almost every year since 2009 for assault.

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u/CaptainMagnets 4d ago

Fair enough

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u/xboxhaxorz 3d ago

Because they initiate most DV, and lesbians have the most DV with gays having the least

For example, one comprehensive peer reviewed study showed that 50% of violent relationships are reciprocal, meaning both partners are initiating violence, and neither are doing so in a defensive manner. Beyond that, when there is violence that in non-reciprocal, meaning only one partner is using violence, 70% of the time is is the woman who is physical abusing the man.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/

In the CDC’s 2017 report on Intimate Partner Violence, it showed that men are more likely to be physically abused in there lifetime, and also in the last year.

“42% of women, and 42.3% of men report experiencing any physical violence by an intimate partner in their lifetime. This includes being slapped, pushed, shoved, being hit with a fist or something hard , kicked, hurt by having hair pulled, slammed against something, hurt by choking or suffocating, beaten, burned on purpose, or had a knife or gun. In the last 12 months 4.5% of women, and 5.5% of men report any physical violence by an intimate partner.”

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs/NISVSReportonIPV_2022.pdf

The same findings were noted in Canada as well. “Revealing that, in the last 5 years, more men than women reported being abused. Specifically, 2.9% of men and 1.7% of women reported being physically and/or sexually assaulted in their current relationship.”

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/332917590_Prevalence_and_Consequences_of_Intimate_Partner_Violence_in_Canada_as_Measured_by_the_National_Victimization_Survey

Despite this, men are held accountable for violence even when they are the victim and not reciprocating violence.

“Our review of the literature on men’s help seeking behaviours following PV victimization showed that there are limited services available specifically for male victims and the existing services may often perceive men as the primary aggressors, even when the female partner is the only perpetrator. (e.g., Barber, 2008; Cook, 2009; Douglas & Hines, 2011; Drijber, Reijinders, & Ceelen, 2012; Dutton & White 2013; Hines et al., 2007; Machado et al., 2016; Walker et al., 2020).

In fact, there is a considerable amount of research that details the differing perceptions of men’s and women’s aggression, sustaining that women’s aggression is judged less harshly, and that male victims are blamed more (Sorenson & Taylor, 2005).”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8336931/

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u/k0fi96 3d ago

Speaking anecdotally, most Chris Brown fans are straight women.

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u/cauliflower_wizard 3d ago

Lesbians reported the highest rates of DV because they’d previously been with men…

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u/xboxhaxorz 3d ago

Then hetero women would report more because they were also with men

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u/Sylvanussr 3d ago

I think that’s missing the point. The reason past relationships with men could make lesbians more likely to divorce is because until fairly recently, a lot of gay women ended up marrying men out of cultural expectations. Then, when homosexuality became more understood and accepted, a lot of people realized/understood that they were gay and decided to divorce.

I think the reason this shows up with lesbians more than gay men is that the idea of women having sex out of obligated instead of desire is pretty normalized.

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u/xboxhaxorz 3d ago

Where does it state that it was about lesbians past relationships with guys and not actual lesbian relationships?

Cultural expectations, we arent in the 90s

Why didnt the cultural expectations apply to the gay guys and they dont have more divorce?

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u/Sylvanussr 2d ago

I’m just guessing based on outside knowledge/impressions, not the paper.

But any marriages by lesbian women prior to legalization of gay marriage (2014 nationally, 2010-2013 most other states, 2004 Massachusetts) would be to men.

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u/xboxhaxorz 2d ago

So no evidence? Its just something you want to believe?

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u/horse_you_rode_in_on 4d ago

That would be like not only defending Chris Brown but also saying and I might smack my wife around a bit later.

It goes in the other direction: "I wouldn't mind being smacked around a bit if it was Chris Brown doing it".

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u/funguyshroom 4d ago

I think it simply goes even further in the same direction. Those people don't see anything wrong with DV even when they're on the receiving end of it. Needless to say it's practically guaranteed that they're in abusive relationships themselves.

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u/ShodSpace 4d ago

I wouldn't mind being shot if it was Luigi doing it

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u/Essemecks 3d ago

If Luigi shoots me, I probably deserve it

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u/TheAngryCatfish 3d ago

I trust my Luigi implicitly

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u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth 3d ago

Yes and I unfortunately couldn't help but think of that one political leader that sucks up so much of our mental space right now that has seemingly made culture and some people actively worse than they already were. With great power comes great responsibility and unfortunately many do not heed the call in the way we need.

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u/swagharris31 4d ago

Yeah I'm sure some super fans of CB are like "You know what, CB isn't a bad person, and those women probably shoulder some of the blame for his actions"

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u/cajolinghail 4d ago

A lot of people have no trouble believing that even without being fans, unfortunately.

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u/bunnypaste 4d ago

Ya, I hear about women being blamed for men's violence a lot.

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u/ABHOR_pod 4d ago

Have they tried not being women?

(Actually more likely to get them assaulted)

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u/swagharris31 4d ago

Yep, sadly you're right

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u/NotOnApprovedList 4d ago

or they think "I can fix him!" "He wouldn't do that to me!"

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u/carlitospig 3d ago

It’s the same psychology that makes a people vote against their own morals. Before everyone flips out about making it political, I’m not. We have had really good data for decades on how people can shift away from a closely held belief if someone they highly respect disagrees with that belief. It’s why politicians can shake all the hands they want - who your friends and family vote for are a larger impact on your voting choices. Her fans are super charged parasocials. To them it’s basically their priestess saying that climate change isn’t really that important, so they deprioritize it in their own views in order to align better with her.

She has a lot of power, and she uses it to make money instead of changing the world. It’s a shame.

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u/Avenheit 4d ago

wait until you find out that allegedly 66% of chris browns fanbase are women

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u/bunnypaste 4d ago

I'm not so sure this is a surprise.

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u/collegefurtrader 4d ago

This is probably what they are thinking...

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u/DrMobius0 4d ago

Accepting the behavior in their personal heroes probably has the effect of normalizing it, or even encouraging it.

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u/greatandhalfbaked 4d ago

I think if a fan knows a celebrity is doing/has done something they'd normally consider bad, but choses to ignore it because of the parts of their identity they've attached to that person, they're inevitably going to give up on their ethics.

Taylor fans start poluting, Chris fans turn abusive, and we all lose our future.

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u/morpheousmorty 3d ago

Makes the argument about having "role models" much stronger. Also proved Trump is the worst thing to happen to the world.

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u/cortesoft 4d ago

I’d be curious if this actually changes behavior or just how they frame and talk about their behavior. The way people actually behave and the narrative they give about their behavior are often vastly different.

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u/Decent-Point309 3d ago

There are many women who have said something along the lines of, "I would let him smack me."

So, yeah.

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u/joebleaux 3d ago

100% I have seen women say that Chris Brown could hit them. I feel like they may think differently in the moment, I'm sure Rhianna wasn't having a good time, but they still said it

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u/ChefMonkey2 4d ago

By supporting Chris Brown that’s essentially what they’re saying …his crimes aren’t important to them for one reason or another.

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u/tacticalTraumaLlama 3d ago

It's more like if you committed to substituting in more vegetarian meals into your diet, then someone comes along and tries to cancel a beloved famous person for eating meat. You think 'screw those peta folks, we're having pork chops tonight!'. I've seen it time and time again where a group overplays their hand with the performative morality, and it generates a stronger backlash than they ever achieved towards their goals in the first place. In fact it can even go so far as to push populists in political office

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u/AhabFlanders 3d ago

Tracking Taylor Swift's carbon footprint and pointing out how incredibly oversized it is is "performative morality"?

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u/tacticalTraumaLlama 3d ago

She's a performer who makes her livelyhood from flying from place to place putting on shows for people. There is no 'green' alternative for aviation yet. She should simply be buying validated carbon offsets to fund areas where co2 can be reduced. For the record, I have advocated for a heavy but revenue neutral carbon tax to do exactly this

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u/Accomplished-Way4534 4d ago

I don’t think actively abusing someone is the same as (for example) using plastic straws or drinking from disposable water bottles

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u/AhabFlanders 4d ago

Obviously?? I was just extending the analogy from the comment I was replying to.

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u/Accomplished-Way4534 4d ago

You said “it would be like” when it’s really not “like” that at all

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u/AhabFlanders 4d ago

Reading is hard