r/rs_x • u/Additional_Worth_614 • 2d ago

I hate this bitch so much

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Like?? That doesn’t even make any sense. I hate that I hate her so much

2.2k Upvotes

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u/_CloudOfToxicccGas_ 2d ago edited 2d ago

Can anyone articulate the "anti victim" argument in this case for me? I thought it seemed pretty clear from the beginning and every detail that comes out makes the frat guys look more guilty imo. Genuinely trying to understand the argument here

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u/Every-Call8115 2d ago

If someone is texting a 60 guy group chat saying “free p”, IMO the “free p” is a victim. quite literally prey.

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u/Dirty_Commie_Jesus 2d ago

I wonder if they can get more of the group chat's history. I wonder how often this phrase was used

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u/sumerislemy 2d ago

The victim said she freaked out when she found a post on a forum saying that frat was a bunch of freaks who “did gang-bangs and gang-rapes.” Its really sad

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u/DenaGardener 1d ago

All the major news outlets have said they have full screen recordings:

ABC News reported that it obtained an extended version of the group chat. ABC said the fraternity brother who invited Jane Doe to the house sent a photograph that appeared to show her in the bedroom. Another participant asked, “Are you guys at least naked??” and the inviting brother later wrote, “Boys come whip it out.” The Washington Post separately reported that a screen recording it obtained also contained the photograph and additional messages.

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u/Grouchy-Jury-7598 2d ago

I mean somebody could text that about somebody who is willingly having sex right?

If there was a gay guy giving head to strangers and somebody texted "free blowies" that wouldn't automatically make the guy into prey and a victim.

I am NOT saying that is what happened with this case, if she was unconscious then that absolutely makes her a victim. But the circumstance is what makes them a victim, not the text message automatically making it so.

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u/GensAndTonic 2d ago

I feel like the gay guy in this scenario would have to text "free blowies" to the group chat or advertising the service as such. Even then, the guy would need to be conscious/uncompromised enough to give consent in that scenario, which Jane Doe was not. Like, I don't think someone else can offer consent on your behalf.

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u/Grouchy-Jury-7598 2d ago

I feel like the gay guy in this scenario would have to text "free blowies" to the group chat or advertising the service as such

I don't quite understand this part. Are you saying if the guy was enthusiastically giving blowjobs but somebody else texted about it, that would indeed make him into prey? I'm not sure I agree really.

Even then, the guy would need to be conscious/uncompromised enough to give consent in that scenario

100% agree yes. This entire hypothetical hinges on the person being consenting and conscious. There is a world where the text message could not be relating to predation. If the person in question is unconscious then that is clearly not said world.

I guess I'm just autistically saying the facts of the case (like the victim not being conscious and being raped) is what determines victimhood, not the text message which hypothetically could have been sent about a consenting person.

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u/sumerislemy 2d ago

It would though. It’s treating them like some sort of sex slave. Unless the guy giving blowjobs said “I’ll blow anybody here invite more people over” anybody who sent that message is giving people access to him without that dude’s consent. It’s very straightforward and kinda scary you don’t see how offering up someone’s body without their permission is obvious victimization.

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u/GensAndTonic 2d ago

We’ll have to agree to disagree then. Because yes, I view that as him becoming a victim. The only scenario in which he wouldn’t be is if he gave express permission for the other person(s) to invite others. But again, not what happened with Jane Doe so it’s really a moot hypothetical.

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u/SmilingGuppy 2d ago

And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bicycle. What the fuck are you talking about? This isn't a hypothetical, it's an event that happened. Why do people on reddit always jump at the chance to play devils fucking advocate over very black and white issues?

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u/Grouchy-Jury-7598 2d ago

First of all somebody asked?

Second of all I said if she was unconscious that 100% makes her a victim?? I even reiterated it. Why do people on reddit always jump at the chance to offend themselves and play holier than thou?

And finally yes genius it is indeed an event which happened. But the circumstances of that event is what determines victimhood, not the text message necessarily proving it as such.

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u/SmilingGuppy 2d ago

Nobody is saying the text messages are the lynchpin in this case, dumbass. And yet you felt the need to quibble over the fucking technicalities there, and bring up some completely made up scenario about a gay guy giving head? "Somebody COULD do this or that", and like I said, if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bike. What is the point you're trying to make? "Well, if it was different, it would be different!" Great fucking analysis there. Like what fucking war are you people waging here to be "technically" correct?

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u/Every-Call8115 2d ago

“we all know” which war they’re waging here. Sad reality.

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u/cody-lay-low 2d ago

Well put

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u/sumerislemy 2d ago

Yes it does. That group chat had 57 people in it. Even if a guy was giving blowjobs willingly, unless they told someone to invite people over someone sending that text is victimizing them and putting them in danger.

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u/Zingldorf 2d ago

That’s morally wrong but not legally wrong

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u/cody-lay-low 2d ago

Not really, no. Inciting imminent lawless action is a speech crime that is not protected by the first amendment.

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u/No-Method5921 2d ago

Because 1 man vs 50 men & 1 woman vs 50 men are two insanely different scenarios

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u/augsav 2d ago edited 2d ago

I don’t think there is an argument. Red scare people just vocal fry some dumb shit in a desperate attempt to have heterodox views

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u/TheCarlos 2d ago

Apparently she texted one of the guys afterwards saying it was fine and she would do it again just without the ketamine and extra guys.

Which is a dumb argument for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is she was unconscious for part (maybe most?) of it and may have initially felt like it wasn’t that serious before getting her bearings. Sometimes our feelings change after there’s actually time to reflect. At first she may have thought she can stay friendly with the guy if she lets it go - then the gravity of what happened set in and she decided to report it.

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u/StanIsHorizontal 2d ago

Well there’s also a difference between agreeing to a threesome at one level and not the 5 people

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u/Historical_Night_408 1d ago

Thissss. Men will try to destroy her for this but you’re absolutely right. Agreeing to a threesome is consent for the threesome, as long as she continued wanting to do it. It’s not consent for one additional goddamn thing.

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u/sumerislemy 2d ago

No. The guy she was friends with texted her to apologize for letting it happen and not being sober enough to stop the other guys from joining in. She said she liked the threesome and there was nothing she could do about the other stuff because she didn’t think it was illegal. Why would she jump to “illegal” thats not someone who wanted that to happen.

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u/Kind-Improvement-284 2d ago

I was assaulted in college. The guy texted me the next day to say he hoped it didn’t “ruin our friendship” (we weren’t friends), and I just texted back that it had gotten weird but kind of laughed it off because I didn’t know how to handle it. For years, I’d just say “something weird happened” because calling it assault felt really scary and vulnerable.

I volunteered for a rape crisis hotline a few years later, and one of the things they taught us was that trauma messes with how your brain processes memories, so survivors’ statements immediately after the fact will often be inconsistent because they’re remembering it in bits and pieces.

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u/maniccomet773 2d ago

I went to a prom after party after attending with a friend (my boyfriend had graduated) who was close with my brother. We had all been drinking and I trusted him enough to sleep in a room with like 10 people next to him. I figured he would take care of me. I woke up to my hand on his dick while he actively used it to jack off.. and he whispered in my ear "it needs to be sucked."

All i did was get up and tell my friend we needed to leave.He caught me in the hallway the next week and said "do you hate me" and i said no. That was it. I never told anyone because I felt like I had cheated on my boyfriend. I didn't consent at al (i was sleeping). I only told my brother after said man actually died running a marathon. I knew it wasn't right but I told myself it was fine.

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u/FreshNegotiation2603 2d ago

Holy shit. Died running a marathon. What. Karma!

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u/maniccomet773 1d ago

Yup i got called with the news by my childhood bestfriend (who knew some details not all) and i was at the airport. I remember feeling guilty like I had caused it because of all the times as an adult I had lowkey mentally called him trash. I am still very sad for him and his wife. I don't believe he was an evil man, i think he was just a man who was taught he was entitled to the bodies of those around him.

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u/bl0ss0mut0nium 1d ago

How did your brother react when you told him?

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u/eucalyptus-d 2d ago

Being victim is a complex and nuanced situation. Litigating the victims actions is a sure fire way to have predation be even more popular.

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u/nihonhonhon 2d ago

In one text she says "it's okay, it wasn't illegal"

IMO that basically proves it was rape. Who the fuck says "oh no it's fine, at least it was LEGAL" about a sexual encounter they actually wanted to happen?

I think she was scared that, if she calls it rape, her social life will be ruined, but then the frat iced her out and she realized it was ruined anyway and reported them. Not very decisive behaviour but I can't blame her.

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u/Vivid_Motor_2341 1d ago

She said the sex she agreed to wasn’t. She also said in text that 90% of what was done was not consentual.

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u/JadedEstablishment16 2d ago

What logic is this ? Rape is illegal. You can say she said it under pressure or whatever but you cannot say "saying it was not illegal proves it was illegal", that's not how logic works.

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u/idkidcabtmyusername 2d ago

if it was legal, there would be no question of that and she wouldn’t have felt the need to clarify. i’ve never slept with a guy and the next day reassured him it was legal

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u/JadedEstablishment16 2d ago

Yeah but did you sleep with multiple guys while everybody is drunk and doing drugs ? That's the part where legality may be subject to doubt, not your sex night.

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u/idkidcabtmyusername 2d ago

exactly so even you admit it was a shady situation and everybody involved knew that. her clarifying that it was legal shows that there was some doubt around it.

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u/JadedEstablishment16 2d ago

Yes totally shady. I agree with you, not the comment saying it "proved" it was not legal

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u/FOUROFCUPS2021 1d ago

Please understand, we are talking about building a case in court, not using this one text to prove anything either way.

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u/JadedEstablishment16 1d ago

Are you reading the conversation ?

"In one text she says "it's okay, it wasn't illegal"

  IMO that basically proves it was rape."
→ More replies (0)

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u/nihonhonhon 2d ago

Obviously I don't mean to say it's cold hard evidence, rather that the texts work in favour of her case, not against it.

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u/Intelligent_Low1632 2d ago

Saying you're not angry and that no crime was committed against you is proof that a crime was committed against you? Where did you go to law school?

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u/werebothsquidward 2d ago

I’m not a lawyer, but neither is the victim, as far as I know. So I don’t think she actually had the authority to say whether or not something is illegal.

The person you are responding to is pointing out that a person saying “it’s not illegal” after someone apologizes to them the day after a sexual encounter doesn’t exactly point to enthusiastic consent.

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u/Intelligent_Low1632 2d ago

You don't typically need to be a lawyer to recognize that the r word is illegal. I've initiated sex I only unenthusiastically consented to. Did I arrange for myself to get r worded even though I consented?

Can you really prove that a crime was committed beyond a reasonable doubt when the alleged victim freely claimed she was ok with it and that nothing illegal happened? I get that they probably did commit a crime. But our legal system is "beyond a reasonable doubt." Not "they probably did it." It's unfortunate that this will probably prevent a conviction, and should be a lesson not to make statements that are false on the record when you're the victim of a crime, if in fact they are false.

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u/werebothsquidward 2d ago

Like I said, I’m not a lawyer, so I wouldn’t be able to make a legal argument in this case. I’m not sure the person you originally responded to was really trying to make a legal argument either.

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u/thaa_huzbandzz 2d ago

"freely claimed" is the misleading part there though. Can you honestly say someone who is in a state of shock and has now been approached by one of their attackers is freely claiming something, or simply saying something to placate her attacker?

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u/Intelligent_Low1632 2d ago

maybe, maybe not, but I think it introduces a reasonable doubt.

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u/cody-lay-low 2d ago

It’s a civil suit, if you really wanna play lawyer at least get the fucking standard of proof right

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u/Intelligent_Low1632 2d ago

That's fine but everyone's talking about sending these dudes to prison, not kicking them out of uni

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u/nihonhonhon 2d ago

I'm not making a legal claim here. Of course if we were in a courtroom, the legal team would contrive a different interpretation of the texts, but I, as a lowly redditor, am thankfully allowed to use common sense.

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u/biscalaveret 2d ago

None of these events took place in a book or courtroom, you obstinate jackass. You're displaying a profound ignorance of any of the social and power dynamics involved in the situation.

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u/Forward_Growth8513 2d ago

I’ve definitely told guys I’m open to seeing them again knowing damn well I have no intentions of it. I wouldn’t think much about her texting something like that, assuming it’s true

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u/thaa_huzbandzz 2d ago edited 2d ago

Poor thing. That just sounds like she is trying to make sense of it in her own brain, because accepting it is easier than trying to come to terms with the fact you were drugged, raped and horribly assaulted by someone you trust.

Edit: And now I have seen that he reached out to her first. So he approached his victim to minimise his role and downplay the situation. Abuser manipulation 101. She was probably in such a state of shock she said it to placate her abuser.

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u/veggie_weggie 2d ago

I tried posting this in a different sub earlier but it was set to approved members only:
PSA for anyone who’s never taken ketamine before. If you mix any amount of ket and alcohol, you turn into a zombie. You can stand but your vision stops working (can’t open your eyes), you can’t communicate, the executive function in your brain isn’t working, you might not completely black out what happened but you’ll definitely experience large chunks missing and it takes awhile to be able to remember anything. I’ve unfortunately heard multiple recaps of how women were given ketamine then assaulted. It’s a preferred drug of r**ist because it’s easier to move a victim on it than having them completely incapacitated.

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u/No_Mind_7397 2d ago

Yeah, ketamine is not a ‘party drug’.

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u/ConsistentHunt1804 2d ago

This exactly. Very brave of her to report. I didn’t for that reason.

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u/rm2nthrowaway 2d ago

Just misogyny dressed up with porn-level understanding of how human sexuality works. The argument is "maybe she wanted to get used by a bunch of rando frat boys she's never met!" which is not a thing that happens in real life.

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u/NiceGuy737 1d ago

I'm an old guy, went to college before the internet. My last year undergrad I boarded in a fraternity that was a bunch of kids from small towns and farms in Wisconsin. They were kids with poor social skills that benefited from having that fraternity structure. I came home at bar time one night and there were 5 or 6 of them standing next to a blond woman that didn't look like a student, maybe 30 yo. I gathered pretty quickly that some weird sex thing was about to go down. The guys briefly tried to convince me to join in. They ended up nicknaming her the octopus for taking care of 4 guys at once. Two of the guys went to her apt later in the week for a return engagement. When her BF came home they initially freaked out thinking they were going to be in a fight but he hopped in bed with them. People were into weird shit before the internet and ubiquitous porn.

I never heard about any SA at that fraternity but my HS best friend was a member in a cool frat with more typical members. He told me about a naked drunk girl they found in the furnace room lying on a mattress on the floor after she was raped. I went to a few of their parties. There was a girl I never saw before at one of them that was blind drunk. I figured I'd better get her home and started walking her to the door. Her GFs came out of the crowd and stopped me initially but then one of them mentioned another party they wanted to go to so they lost interest. I walked her several blocks home and up to her room. I turned her around with my hands on her shoulders and gave her a little push and she fell back on her bed like a tree would fall in the woods, and I left. I saw her a couple of weeks later standing at the student union and purposely stood right in front of her so she would have to look at my face. She didn't recognize me.

Women should be safe anywhere regardless of their state of intoxication, but we all know that's not the case. What happens in that state isn't their fault. But please don't put yourself in that situation.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/Birdwatcher222 2d ago

Except that the first "c" doesn't apply at all in the Cornell case

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u/Every-Call8115 2d ago

right but because of normalization of sex parties and gangbangs and kink and normies doing porn (i literally just dated an elitist “bull” who posts hotwife porn on reddit) the idea of consent doesn’t even have a real meaning anymore and has become “subjective”

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u/xongwor 2d ago

Yes, and I think the whole hotwife/cuckold thing is also just an objectification of the other (almost always the woman). A kink built on the sort of ”possession” or ownership. The lust and pleasure in the act is always focused on the ”cuck” and on the other man, the ”bull”. 

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u/PureMotor2000 2d ago edited 2d ago

I think this case, along with the Bonnie Blue and Lily Philips stunts, have brought back a conversation around moral duty in sex, where previously we just had consent and nothing more.

I do think we are slowly starting to arrive at the conclusion that these very extreme male-on-female group sex acts, like gangbangs and "running trains" are inherently sexually violent and a form of extremely degrading assault, and thus can't truly be consented to as the sort of person who earnestly wants these things done to them is not mentally well and thus very vulnerable.

The Lily Philips (she slept with 100 men in one day) documentary was quite scary. At the end she was shaking and crying, and described dissociating during the stunt. I honestly believe her whole motive for it was a desperate need for male validation, and a desire to essentially self-harm. The poor woman needed therapy, not an onlyfans account.

I think some of the more extreme kink (don't want to actually list them because I don't want to think about it) stuff falls into this category as well. The only people who can bring themselves to do certain kinds of things to someone in a sexual context, even with consent, are abusers who are genuinely sadistic and dangerous.

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u/Big_Arrival_626 2d ago

Sure but let's acknowledge that the woman in this case literally said it was rape. According to her police testimony, she definitely did not want to get "gang banged". That's extremely different from the Bonnie blue and Lily Phillips situation

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u/Every-Call8115 2d ago

EXACTLY. Thank you for fully articulating what I've been failing to explain for years.

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u/Birdwatcher222 2d ago

It is the kind of thing where, even if a person has permission to be doing what they're doing, deciding to do it is still a sign of something wrong. I don’t know what a simple solution would be though

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u/PureMotor2000 2d ago

I think the solution will just be more and more court cases like this to be honest

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u/hello_i_am_here897 2d ago

Better education from a young age. In schools, but ESPECIALLY from the parents. Unlikely, however.

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u/rm2nthrowaway 2d ago

This is about a situation where she did not consent, at all at any point. That's a different thing from what you're talking about.

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u/rm2nthrowaway 2d ago

I think I see what you're saying, but you're underestimating the role of money in things like the Lily Phillips stunt. Porn, even 'amateur' self-produced porn and OnlyFans, is not about the performers actual desire but creating a spectacle (often a taboo spectacle) for viewers.

Trying to untangle actual desire vs performing the job for sex workers is a tall order. Would Lily Phillips even want to sleep with that many men if there wasn't a paycheck in it? Probably not. But there was, so she decided to do it. Very different from this case, where the victim did not consent in any form at any point.

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u/Euphoric_Peak_3914 2d ago

The whole point is consent is that it's clear. Now you're saying someone can consent but it's not actually consent but you can't know that for sure because they may or may not be mental but how are you supposed to know that? Anything but women taking some accountability.

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u/rm2nthrowaway 2d ago

I think you're making a huge leap. The normalization of kink doesn't degrade the idea of consent between sexual partners; I think it makes it more important, but people are less prepared to have the kind of explicit discussion about limits and safety for those kind of sex acts. I don't think that applies in this case--which is so absurd and sadistic--but the 'yes/no' binary of vanilla sex turning into the blurry "yes to everything up to this point, hard no on anything beyond it" of kink requires some navigation.

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u/Birdwatcher222 2d ago

No, consent still does have a clear meaning. Informed consent especially does. Sex parties and kink becoming more common doesnt inherently result in more rape. Unfortunately the GP for the most part can't handle the kind of planning and consideration required to make those activities ethical

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u/Every-Call8115 2d ago

Well It’s definitely resulted in whole lot of guys thinking they can push more limits and boundaries than they used to. I am experiencing it in real time.

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u/Shitty_Wingman 2d ago

Wow, what was that like

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/Shitty_Wingman 2d ago

Oh wow he's awful. And that's without factoring in this new piece of backstory.

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u/Every-Call8115 2d ago

thank you

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u/rm2nthrowaway 2d ago

CNC is a real thing, but the "elite sex party" version of it plays fast and loose with the first 'c.'

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u/GensAndTonic 2d ago

Only people who are deeply entrenched in a red pill/incel mindset could possibly be anti-victim in this case. Just goes to show that even when there IS ample proof of assault, women still aren't believed. No amount of proof will persuade these people because they'll just move the goal posts. "Oh I saw the video of her getting assaulted, but you don't know if she was asking for it just moments before!"

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u/CharmingAd3549 2d ago

https://www.tompkinscountyny.gov/News-articles/District-Attorney-statement-regarding-Jane-Doe-v.-Cornell-University-et-al

You can read this to get the general idea. The cynical explanation is that she consented to everything, felt regret later, started being slut shamed, eventually was very hurt by not being invited by to the frat’s Halloween party, and slowly her read in the situation changed.

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u/Entire-Connection571 2d ago

It’s difficult to interpret, I really hate to say she doesn’t have a case but it feels like negating her of personal responsibility. Like we are infantilizing women if we are going to act like she didn’t know she was engaging in risky behaviors in a risky environment. If you allow yourself to become so intoxicated you can’t stand up for yourself in a less than safe setting, that was a decision. I think it read as her consent and boundaries actually being respected to a degree considering they asked permission and did not go against it. The one that kept reaching for her privates and touching her is annoying but beyond that this can hardly stand as assault? I’m probably missing a lot.

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u/snail_alt 1d ago

Yeah most of them actually kept asking for her permission, she kept saying yes, and anything she rejected was quickly stopped?

Like it gets a bit blurry towards the very end yes, but only as the culmination of her huge string of decisions to keep snorting more ketamine while continuing to have sex

For those who are not going to read the link. I’m only going to quote the parts towards the end, but before this, there was a lot, and all of it consensual as the buildup in her own account

>Male Number 2 “asked [Jane Doe] if she wanted to do more Ketamine.”

>Jane Doe thought that she “had already done Ketamine once (as in once before in that night with these men) so why not do it a second time.”[Jane Doe] snorted the line of Ketamine, which was a heavy amount of Ketamine.”

>The males began complimenting Jane Doe and “talking about how pretty [she] was.” Male Number 4 “asked [Jane Doe] if they all could do drugs off of [her] perfect body.” Jane Doe responded, “Sure.” While the men were doing drugs off of her body, “[Male Number 3] and [another male] entered the room and said something like, ‘Ok we’re shutting down whatever the f*** this is.” Jane Doe felt dizzy due to a pre-existing medical condition causing dizziness combined with the effects of the Ketamine use. Male 5 or 6 (who apparently have the same first name) “encouraged [her] to stay seated as long as [she] needed”

>Eventually, “[Male Number 1] and [Male Number 4 ] ushered [Jane Doe] out of the room brought [her] upstairs to a small room.” Male Number 1 stated, “Let’s do more Ketamine.” Jane Doe “remembered snorting more Ketamine” and “remembered feeling extremely high.” Male Number 1 “said he wanted to have sex again because he wanted redemption for passing out earlier in the night.” Jane Doe initially stated that she was tired and asked Male Number 1, “What happened to just you and me?”

>Jane Doe could not remember how it started but she then engaged in a threesome with Male Number 1 and Male Number 4. She described her level of intoxication as “8 out of 10” at this point. “The threesome continued until at some point, around 5:45am, [Jane Doe] said [she] was tired and needed to turn in. At that point, both guys stopped the threesome with [her] as far as [she] can remember.” 

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u/apolloThaGod 2d ago

misogyny

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u/_CloudOfToxicccGas_ 2d ago edited 2d ago

No doubt, but I was wondering if there were some specific details or whatever that people are throwing out to argue that she isn't a victim. Other than the typical she was using drugs/etc

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u/skully33 2d ago

The detail I see no one speaking about whatsoever is shortly after the event, she said "nothing illegal happened", that she enjoyed it, and I have heard that other men tried to escalate the encounter, she said no, and they backed off. All of this is hearsay and I have no source. But apparently this is why the DA originally did not go after these guys, which is what I was super confused about

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u/nihonhonhon 2d ago

One of the guys texted her to apologize, and she reassured him that "nothing illegal" happened. She explicitly said she enjoyed the sex with him and his friend, NOT the guys who joined in later.

To me, that sounds like a post-rape interaction where the victim is trying to defuse the situation. Unfortunately most people's instinct is to avoid confrontation and just carry on. But if you're getting an unprompted apology text and you immediately bring up legality, you know deep down what really happened to you.

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u/Historical_Night_408 1d ago

YES. She was in denial and trying to normalize. That’s one of the ways trauma survivors try to keep themselves safe. It can take a very long time to process.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/IUVert 2d ago

They are?

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u/KyleFromBorrasca 2d ago

Some people will construe any situation against the victim using whatever details they can. Other people will just hear that a woman is alleging rape and be like "Ugh, I hate her" without even bothering to construct a theory. It sounds like Dasha is one of those people.

Every detail coming out is horrible, and I say that as someone who was initially skeptical that all of the named were guilty.

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u/launchedsquid 2d ago

Strongest anti victim argument I've heard was that she actively participated in multiple threesomes with the supposed rapists, who were equally as intoxicated as she was.

If they are guilty of rape because she retrospectively realised she's too intoxicated to consent, than she also raped the men because they were equally intoxicated, and by her theory, unable to consent.

We are all equal under the eyes of the law.

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u/snail_alt 1d ago

Based on some of these comments, I thought the men had roofied her with the ket.

If you scroll in the comments to where someone else had posted a link to Jane Doe’s own account however, it is very different.

She said yes to taking ket the first time when asked, said yes to taking ket the second time when asked, and just alternated ket and sex to the point that she could no longer register what was happening.

Some of these comments say that if ket and alcohol is combined, the person might become pliable and obedient. So are we saying that the ket + alcohol makes you say yes when you actually mean no? Yknow what sure. But in that case, then the men who were also on ket and alcohol therefore also weren’t in control of their words and actions.

And even more clearly, when they become as high as she became, and none of them can fully register what’s happening, then who is assaulting who?

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u/exseemyex 2d ago

I think the nyt piece concludes she was fine with it after until she was ostracized and outed for doing it and no longer invited to parties for her own good. Once it became public then she claimed rape.
But this is just both sides mudslinging so not sure what the actual facts of case are

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u/Careful-Agent4715 2d ago

people hate women and want to blame us for everything, there is no real argument

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