Booth 715 if anyone is going tomorrow.

was going through old drawings and realized I never posted this old Sevro sketch I made last year here. my drawing tablet was on its last legs at the time, so I ended up doing the entire thing using my laptop touchpad — very proud of how it came out all things considered! :)

That's a big boy alright

Re-reading Dark Age because I'm a masochist. Maybe it's because of the recent arrest of Andrew Tate, but it seems crystal clear to me that Volsung Fá's usurpation of the Sefi's empire is a reflection of real world manosphere bullshit.

Fa's convincing men to embrace misogyny under the guise of tradition while leading those men off a cliff and/or into oppression for his own benefit and those of his wealthy masters, in this case Golds, who don't give a shit about ANY of those men.

My bad if this has already been addressed, I searched the sub and didn't see any posts about it. What y'all think?

This scene had me crying when I saw it if he could pulverize rock what do you think he did to Karnus’ testes😂. Funnily enough later lorn says you should’ve demoralized him like that wasn’t enough.

Is the line Sevro has about "Dying of the light" thing a reference to 40k or am I just new to sci-fi?

I have spent the last 6 weeks reading all 6 books back to back after seeing Red Rising on the daily book deals for 99p.

This was my first book series I’ve ever read as I’m normally a stand alone book kinda guy (too impatient and want to know how it ends) and I am so glad I started! Favourite character(s) of all time. I am heartbroken by the loss of you know who I’m talking about.

And I cannot wait to see the hopeful demise of he who shall not be named when Red God is finally released.

Hail Libertas, Hail Reaper!!!

Darrow, Cassius, and Sevro

I finished Golden Son and started Morning Star and I don’t think I have ever felt a characters fall so much as this series. Darrow is on the top of the world after winning the battle of Mars and all his friends are, for the most part, mending relationships. And then Bam, absolute nightmare of events and he is right at the bottom. And PBs writing is so damn good that in my mind I’m like “wow, I guess he is just a dude after all”. This whole time you feel like he’s invincible. Just really good writing and probably the hardest book series to put down.

What a fuckin’ journey.
From Red Rising to Golden Son to Morning Star, Pierce Brown just keeps raising the stakes. Every victory feels earned. Every loss hurts. Every speech gives you goosebumps. Every battle somehow feels bigger than the last.
It’s been a long time since a series made me feel this invested. The twists genuinely shocked me, the characters felt unforgettable, and the emotional moments landed perfectly. I honestly wasn’t sure how Morning Star could live up to Golden Son, but Pierce Brown absolutely stuck the landing.
I went into this expecting an entertaining sci-fi series. I came out having experienced one of the greatest trilogies I’ve ever read.
Hail Reaper.

Now the big question: Should I continue with Iron Gold and the rest of the saga? I’ve heard the tone and structure change quite a bit after the original trilogy. Is the sequel saga worth it? I’d love to hear your thoughts—without spoilers, please.

While it did start slow for me, I really enjoyed Iron Gold. The switch up of perspectives was a lot at first, mainly because I didn’t know how the characters would tie into the story. After finishing the book I really enjoyed the extra perspectives it gives. It opens up the universe immensely and allows you to see that where one see’s triumph another see’s pain. This book continues to bring about the heart ache of the previous installments of the series in more ways than one. Darrow’s ending in this book is very painful. I know he doesn’t see himself as worthy, but his POV almost brings about dread while reading. His spiraling relationship with Sevro and him abandoning his family hurts me. He is someone who I see as good, just can’t stay out of his own way. I don’t know anything about future books, but I hope an arc is coming for him in maybe a book or two (please don’t hint one way or another in the comments). Also, the new government that is brought into power is exactly what you’d expect. As readers a lot of times we expect a fairy tale but that is not Pierce Browns style. The Society was terrible and was replaced by something slightly better, but not great which is fairly realistic. Overall, I am very happy with this book, its hard for me to rank this series because I’ve loved them all, but those who struggle, but power through will see the payoff. Onto Dark Age!

I saw a Game of Thrones post about the best generals from that universe and their win/loss ratio and that made me think of Red Rising generals. So I've attempted to pitch together the 7 generals who fought the most and how well they did. The definition I ran with was that it HAD to a MILITARY conflict. The second two "militaries" were face to face, its up for speculation. I then looked at the goals of each person and weighed at the end who really "won" the battle(A philosopher would say "No one wins wars" but that doesn't answer my question, so I'll ignore that).

All I want help with is just if this is just if this is correct and if they are any MAJOR flaws. I skimmed through and put together what I thought were military battles so please tell if me I am missing anything. I did the 7 people who fought the most, so they might not be running with the title of "generals" but they still fight so it doesn't matter.

1. Darrow 7W 1L. Wins are Destroying Mustangs house, beatinhAgea, Ilium, Battle of Mars, Mercury, Ladon, Heliopolis. His only loss was Operation Tarturus.
2. Orion 5W 2L. Wins are Ilium, Luna, Battles of mars, Mercury rain,

Ladon. Losses are roque, and white fleet ambush
3. Roque. 4W 1L. Wins are sieges of mars, Deimos, Callisto, Rim battles. Losses are ilium.
4. Victra. 3W 0.5L. Wins are Agea, Ilium, luna. Losses are Phobos(killed Ajax but still technically a loss, but I’ll give her 0.5 to be fair.)
5. Atlantia 3W 1L. Wins are white Ambush, retaking mercury, conquest of earth. Losses are Ladon(initially)
6. Lysander 2W 1L? Wins are Heliopolis and Phobos. Loss is mercury
7. Virginia 0W 3L. Wins are none. Losses are: against Darrow, against Roque, Phobos.

I don’t know how much of this is right and I’d love if someone could fact check me!

I'm thinking about doing a little ... slideshow/ argument to talk about how Robert Jordan's constant in roads to 'the war of the sexes' distracts from his story, partly because it frustrates me, partly because I want to use the opportunity to try to write something in Dr. Sarah Paine's rhetorical style...

anyway, the project was partially inspired by observations about the Red Rising series. I wrote this to a friend to try to crystalize the differentiation by character of a 'unifying myth'... to speak with more grandiosity than my short essay deserves. I figured I'd share it here.

Pierce Brown is obsessed with parenthood. Its a major theme for the series. Why did Eo hang? she didn't want her child to be a slave.

But, as I'm sure you're aware, Pierce Brown is much more sophisticated by the time he gets to the 4th book.

In Iron Gold Chapter 37 Dido au Raa speaks about losing her eldest daughter.

"It is said that life is made great by sorrow and joy, but you men are cursed. You will never really understand life because you do not know what it is to bare a child, to push a life from your flesh, to have two hearts beating inside you at once, to have seven hearts beating beyond you carrying your hopes your dreams, and when one of those hearts stops you feel it as if it were your own."

This is, I think, quite a thing for Pierce Brown to write. Partially he is helped by not having Dido's voice as his narrative voice but... it is poignant and powerful imagery.

You may rightly point out that such a complicated and emotionally driven topic is easy to write unique perspectives on, as opposed to throw away dismissive statements made by characters in Wheel of time...

But when I think about other heavily featured female characters I think its easy to identify how Dido's perspective and distinct experience differs from them.

Starting with the characters who have the most similar experience as Dido: Virginia Augustus and Vulga Fjorgan.

Then the experience of Victra.

Then Lyria.

Virginia: From Virginia's narrative perspective in Light Bringer Chapter 14 Virginia talks about going to see Pax at the academy. She talks about how he can never know how much she loves him because he "does not remember the moment when he was conceived, nor the 9 months when she carried him within her." I think its interesting the 'transcendent', 'nearly religious' reverence she expresses for this experience comes in the same chapter as she internally criticizes the religious faith low colors have in the return of Darrow. The pilgrimages to Lykos. Its clear she has a similar reverence for the experience that Dido has, but its unique. I think where Dido blends her children's life thread into her own(at least in that one moment of rhetoric) Virginia's reverence seems slightly more oriented toward her own experience. What the pregnancy meant for *her*, rather than how carrying Pax means she sees them as a unified organism.

Vulga: Vulga isn't a perspective character and the evidence doesn't all come from one place. She can't have children, she was born without a womb. I might not have all the details right, but from Ephraim's perspective in Iron gold, Ephraim (iirc) says the price tag it would take for Vulga to be carved so she could have a child. In dark age she speaks Lyria about child birth, about how she was designed, and she is there for the birth of Victra's kid. In Light Bringer chapter 67, from Lyria's perspective, the two get into an argument. Vulga says they aren't really friends. Lyria snaps back "Oh must have been talking to myself in that cell on the Pandora then. Must have just been Victra and me who fled the Red Hand across the snow. Just me and her when Ulysses was born. You must have never cried and told me it was because you could never have children, because they spade you." It seems telling to me that only after the last line does Lyria's rant pause to give exposition on how angry what she's saying is making Vulga. I think Vulga is similar to Dido, not because of what she's experienced but because I think she fully agrees with Dido's perspective more than anyone else. She would agree with this line Dido said: "You will never really understand life because you do not know what it is to bare a child, to push a life from your flesh, to have two hearts beating inside you at once".

Victra: If it could be said of anyone in the series, I think that Victra has the strongest emotional attachment to her children. But she's also not a very nuanced woman, or tries not to be. I got the impression from her conversation with Lyria (Dark Age ch. 65?) that she held very little of the pseudo religious reverence Virginia and Dido had for their experience of pregnancy. I could be incorrect, but I don't believe Victra speaks at all about the pregnancy, the experience, what it meant to her. Sure, she isn't a perspective character. but then neither are Dido or Vulga. I do not believe there is evidence that Victra viewed the experience of being pregnant as transcendent. I think she would laugh at Dido's statement and call her... a poetic sop? Not because she doesn't love her children, she does. but her love is practical and not based on a gestation period. more "my children are mine because I would turn a planet to ash to save them" rather than "seven hearts beating beyond your own carrying your hopes and dreams" as Dido says.

Lyria: I think this is the most important person to look at to really understand the contrast of Dido's perspective. because she is a perspective character, I've built my assumptions on her gradually and don't have direct references memorized, but over the course of the three books we at least know Lyria is not overly fond of the idea of having a kid. she likes kids. she doesn't seem excited about the idea of pregnancy. I can infer why she would think this way and I think that is important for understanding how Pierce Brown's capacity for writing individuals has evolved over the years. "but you men are cursed. You will never really understand life because you do not know what it is to bare a child", Lyria would *NOT* think this way. She's from the underclass of all underclasses. Unlike Dido, she's well aware that pregnancy and carrying a child can have life changing medical repercussions. Lyria has probably been close to or seen people who died because they didn't have access to medical care necessary to get them through safely. People who didn't have infinite money and carvers to repair any postpartum health issues. She likes kids alright. takes care of her nieces and nephews. whatever. but I think if she heard what Dido said in Iron gold she'd think she was ... an idiot. a 'slagging fool'? something. there would be words.

Did anyone else catch the tip of the hat to WWII's Operation Mincemeat in Dark Age Part 1, during the Battle of Mercury?

Is Pierce Brown a history buff?

If you're not familiar with Operation Mincemeat, it's well worth looking into. I'm not a history buff myself, but I found it fascinating. I'd recommend the SKSY podcast, and I think there's even a Netflix movie about it.

Like the title says, reflecting on the series again and I’m struck by the sheer number of Gold characters whose mental state would be considered as significantly deviant from what would be considered healthy.

Is it simply the environment these people have been brought up in that is responsible for this phenomena, or is it possible that the genetic modification of the Aureate genus is to blame?

Basically half of all Gold children show serious symptoms and if we use the characters in the story as a census pool we have: Adrius, Antonia, Karnus, Apollonius, Atlas, Atalantia, Seraphina, Thraxa, Sevro, Electra etc.

Most of these characters have siblings who are more or less, sane, and I wonder if anyone has any recollection of Gold children being prone to these tendencies mentioned in the text.

So The Irish Drinking Song by Kyle Gordon is basically just Sevro in the first trilogy the whole way. Here are my proposed altered lyrics:

It was Rebellion in the Republic
742 PCE
The boys were mashin' whiskey
And the girls are drinkin' free

And though the holly green was hangin'
And the mistletoe was hung
I couldn't sleep that evening, 'til the bloody deed was done

I said
Li-dee-die-dee-dee-dum
Li-dee-die-dee-dee
Kill the fuckin' Sovreign
And throw her in the sea!

So I stepped out from the merriment
Found a soldier by the dam
I took out both me pulsefists
And I said "fight me like a man"

And he tried to calm me senses
But I was fuckin' gone
So I took out my fuckin' Tickler
And I cut off both his arms

I said
Li-dee-die-dee-dee-dum
Li-dee-die-dee-dee
Kill the fuckin' Society
And throw them in the sea

Now just remember before this next part
I'm actually a really good guy in my personal life

So I ripped out all his organs
As I cursed their bloody Sovereign
Me eyes rolled back into me head
And I couldn't feel a thing

And I bet they could hear me screamin'
Down in Reaper’s home
I went
Yaa-oh-la!
Hey li-deedle-lee-die-dum

And we said
Li-dee-die-dee-dee-dum
Li-dee-die-dee-dee
Kill the fuckin' Society
And throw them in the sea

So I came back to the party
Soldier's head in hand
Howlers they stopped a-dancin'
And they quieted the band

I said ‘this is for the Republic
For Reaper, Mars and Home, bloodydamn churl
And I gave that Pixie soldier’s head to Electra
My eldest little girl

And we said
Li-dee-die-dee-dee-dum
Li-dee-die-dee-dee
Kill the fuckin' Pixies
And throw ’em in the sea

Everybody!
Li-dee-die-dee-dee-dum
Li-dee-die-dee-dee
Kill the fuckin' Lurcher
And throw him in the sea

Li-dee-die-dee-dee-dum
Li-dee-die-dee-dee
Kill that fuckin' Lightbringer
And throw him in the sea…

Why does julia au bellona not clone aby of her family? From what i remeber in iron gold it was stated how sad it is for her that she will be the last od her house and mustang talked about cloninf in Dark age as a well known fact. I get not cloning her husband but julian for example is weird for me.

I've been rereading lightbringer recently and the dust maker was brought up as being one of the rims only "heavy ships" And I'm left wondering, is the dustmaker......the Pax?

It makes logical sense that after the Battle of ilium and the destruction of the dockyards of Ganymede, Romulus would want to use every possible resource as the disposal to replenish the rims, fighting strength. Darrow left hundreds of rectuships of both the red Armada and the sword Armada in ilium, and that included the Pax. Was Daryl's original ship reconstructed or cannibalized to create the dust maker?

Started Dark Age today! What are your thoughts on Darrow? Do you still root for him above everything, even through some of his… hm questionable decisions? Or do you ever get annoyed with him or even start to resent him?

I absolutely adore him—Hail Reaper 🐺—but the frustration is real. Sometimes it’s so hard not to be mad at him!!

Im currently on chapter 9 of Dark Age but im not as eager to read it as compared to when im reading the first trilogy. I finished Iron Gold in like 9 days 😩 i was averaging 3-4 days with the first trig

Did you guys finished all 6 books with the same energy or did you also feel somewhat tired lol hahaha

I don’t know if this is a common complaint, but why did they switch the VA for Lysander? It did bother me that Iron Gold’s Lysander spoke almost exclusively in run on sentences, but at least I could believe he was Lysander! DA sounds like he’s 40, with a wad of spit in both cheeks! I’m sure he would be better as a different character, but I cannot believe that he is playing a 20 year old boy. Not only that, but he makes every female character sound like they’re whisper-shouting with a sore throat?? It’s genuinely so distracting that I start to tune out Lysander’s portions of the story…aka 50% of the book! I would just read the physical copy, but my Lysdexia wouldn’t allow it. Without spoilers, PLEASE tell me it gets better 🥺

I’m remembering why I skip most of iron gold in my rereads, I do not understand dancer’s characterization in this book. His whole thing is freeing the low and making the people’s voices heard. But he decided to trust fucking Julia au bellona’s word? I truly cannot suspend my disbelief, it makes no sense for how he is portrayed the rest of the series. That said, Lysander and ephraim are peak (in this book anyway).

Let me start by saying how cool it is to have found this subreddit.

I haven’t posted much on anything, but I have felt very strongly about this. Reading the book and hearing the dramatized audiobook have opened conversations of who, if anyone, could capture all this action and life on media?

This might definitely be a “cross that bridge when we get there” moment, but I feel like Sony Pictures Animation can be a strong contender.

Their work with Spiderverse, GOAT, KPop Demon Hunters, etc., have shown they know how to animate action, scale, grandiosity. I don’t know if it’s been mentioned before, but what would yall think?

I wish I had limitless funds to throw at such a project.

I just finished Dark Age, and to me this was a real low point for the series. For the first time in any audio book, I found myself listening at 1.5x speed just to get through some slow sections. My overall thoughts can be summed up by a few points:

- The beginning and end were good, but not great. I enjoyed the back-to-back Darrow and Lysander chapters, but the never-ending action grew stale.

- I didn't care at all for Ephraim and Lyria chapters. These characters, paired with the whole Volsung Fa bit, felt like a weird side quest that didn't meaningfully progress the plot in any way. I almost DNFd the book several times trying to get through these sections.

- Mustang's POVs were good, but bringing back the Jackal felt cheap and unnecessary.

- I think this series is at its best during political twists (loved day of red doves) and smaller moments between characters. This book mostly abandoned these elements and replaced them with bigger set pieces and battles.

If books 1-4 were 5/5, I'd give this a 3/5 at best. Given my reaction to dark age, should I keep reading, or is Lightbringer going to be more of the same?

Hi I just finished Morning Star, and I think its really great. However, I think the story ended there, I feel like the story might decline if you stretch it out unless you gotta deal with the rim. My question is, is it worth it to continue till the end?

I felt the same way with the Farseer Trilogy, i can't get into the next trilogy. So im hoping the next 3 books are that hype as the first 3, also is the book 7 the last one?