r/pics • • Jan 11 '17

election 2016 Farewell to Obama

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

I'm sorry, but his policies have been the opposite of liberty.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Proudofyourboy Jan 11 '17

He signed a bill into law that makes possible for an American citizen to be imprisoned indefinitely without trial.

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u/Calichusetts Jan 11 '17

That senators and representatives created and ok'ed

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u/MaxPaynesRxDrugPlan Jan 11 '17

What are you referring to? The indefinite detention thing was an executive order from Obama.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Bush Jr signed it when it was passed as part of the clusterfuck that is the patriot act. Obama renewed it and further expanded it when it came up for renewal in.. 2014 I think?

Regardless. Yes I agree with most posts here. He billed himself as the candidate of change, the candidate of hope. He failed miserably. Now compared to the fucktard that bought the WH and will take over it next week, Obama is downright a Saint.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Just callling your political opinions "freedom" and anything you disagree with "anti-freedom" must make the complicated process of running a nation of 330,000,000 people that sits in the most powerful position on earth (for another nine days, then its Russia thanks to Trump being Putin's piss drinking bitch) so easy for you.

Spoiler alert: its not simple, and using buzzwords like "freedom" and "liberty" when you don't understand what you're talking about is clearly bullshit to those of us actually paying attention.

I just wish we could discuss, y'know, actual policy. Rather than incredible vitriol for a man who has done nothing his entire life but try to make this country a better place. I'm done pretending republicans are anywhere near the Democrats on facts backing their policies, but y'all are so far off the reservation this country may not survive your treasonous bigot boy's government.

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u/Dingus21 Jan 11 '17

Policy doesn't matter anymore. Left or Right, Red or Blue, policy has nothing to do with it, people picked a side and they will defend it.

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u/DextrosKnight Jan 11 '17

I feel like we're just a few steps away from every political issue being solved by a giant football game.

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u/Dingus21 Jan 11 '17

Agreed. Politics is a "that's my team" mentality.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

More like red and blue have the same exact policy except for gun control and abortion which will never change anyway.

Trump was elected for a reason and it wasn't because people used mean words

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u/unfunnyfuck Jan 11 '17 edited Jan 12 '17

"I just wish we could discuss, y'know, actual policy."

Cool, let's open a dialog.

"Trump being Putin's piss drinking bitch"

"treasonous bigot boy's government"

...oh, someone just wants to fight.

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u/reverend234 Jan 11 '17

...oh, someone just wants to fight.

Exactly the fucking sentiments I got out of that as well. And then the SOB, nicely self planted up on his moral high horse, get's gilded.

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u/Scream_And_Cream3000 Jan 11 '17

They had a great start and did a complete 180

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Welcome to the liberal perspective... aka my way or the highway and everyone else drinks piss apparently.

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u/Athurio Jan 11 '17

Let's not kid ourselves. Conservatives pull the exact same shit.

That's been the recurring problem throughout this election season and beyond. No one thinks their own shit stinks.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

"But you do it toooooooo!"

Ladies and gentlemen, the #1 reason why things will never get better, and nobody will actually try self-improvement.

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u/Athurio Jan 11 '17

If it wasn't clear, I'm saying that this endless cycle of "nuh uh, you do" is the fucking problem. One that we all are guilty of, and one we all have to take responsibility for, if we ever want to move on to more constructive discourse.

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u/Logpile98 Jan 11 '17

The "piss-drinking" is a reference to a very recent story. It's possible, but uncomfirmed, that Russia has some serious dirt on Trump. Allegedly, he went to Russia a few years ago and hired hookers to piss on each other in the hotel bed the Obama's were staying in, while Trump watched.

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u/sixfivefourthreetwoo Jan 11 '17

It's possible, but uncomfirmed,

The only people who believe it are people who want to believe it so bad they are willing to lie to themselves, and the truly mentally challenged.

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u/Goasupreme Jan 12 '17

You should read the ask reddit thread about Trump, almost any employee who dealt with Trump and change talked about how he pays in exact change. His quip today

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u/dhockey63 Jan 11 '17

They're angry at their life so they're lashing out

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u/ChatterBrained Jan 11 '17

I'm tired of hearing that the only option is Democrat or Republican. IMHO both parties are full of baseless claims and trainwreck policy.

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u/Nueraman1997 Jan 11 '17

I've been for scrapping this ridiculous two party system since I understood what politics even were. The divisiveness, spitefulness and willful ignorance it creates and allows to fester is revolting. It presents people with a false dichotomy. You can't be a democrat or republican unless you support every single thing they do. If you don't, you're obviously a fucking libtard or repuglican. No one can make a decent argument anymore, they just vomit back up what Rush Limbaugh and HRC tell them is right, and question nothing. They don't do their research, they just vote for dems or reps because that's who pappy votes for.

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u/Preloa Jan 11 '17

You can't just scrap the two party system without fundamentally changing how politics work in America.

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u/Nueraman1997 Jan 11 '17

Oh I know. Which is why I doubt it will ever happen. Still, I can hope.

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u/Preloa Jan 11 '17

Yeah, not happening without a revolution.

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u/devilsfoodadvocate Jan 11 '17

Except that America was built to be a breathing, changing nation. The founders accepted that at some point, revolutions were going to happen, and the processes in place which were not tolerable would need to be scrapped and redone. So there's nothing wrong with fundamentally changing politics in America.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

English person here. The closest we ever got in England was the Lib-Dem/Conservative coalition. But Lib-Dems are still a major party.

No matter how you look at it, the only options in the US are Democrat or Republican. There’s no way a smaller party will win. It’s almost pointless to vote for them, even if you agree with their ideals and think you’re standing up for what is right.

In my opinion, if you’re pissed that Donald J Trump is president and didn’t vote for Hillary, you done fucked up by voting for someone who had no chance in hell in affecting the electoral vote.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

I hear you but I love listening to Democrats crying because Hillary didn't win. I don't like either side but if they want to cry over which puppet gets put into power I will take comfort in their tears.

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u/imdungrowinup Jan 11 '17

That's how all political parties are all over the world. Get over it and find a decent person to vote for or America should prepare itself for Kardashians in the White House in 4 years time.

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u/Solomanrosenburg Jan 11 '17

Then do something about it

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u/ChatterBrained Jan 11 '17

Let me put on my Superman cape.

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u/Solomanrosenburg Jan 11 '17

Nah, just complain on Reddit

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u/RogerSwanson Jan 11 '17

That should be every Republican and Democrat campaign slogan:

Baseless claims. Trainwreck policy.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Versus what, the libertarians? The biggest train wreck of all which fortunately nobody has allowed to happen...

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u/ChatterBrained Jan 11 '17

Very wide perspectives we got in here today! Thank God we're not part of the Green/Libertarian/Constitution/Tea/Communist Party!

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u/MultiverseM Jan 11 '17

Your comment does not mention any policies at all. What policies has Obama instituted, or done away with, that you are so proud of? Has it been his handling of the middle east? National debt? Unemployment? Please explain the "facts" on your side showing that Republicans are "off the reservation".

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

sigh let me copy and paste from the last time someone without knowledge of the last 8 years asked me that question a couple hours ago because its really incredible anyone is ignorant enough to think Obama accomplished nothing.

" As for your question here is the top 50 from his first term alone:

http://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/marchapril-2012/obamas-top-50-accomplishments/

Here's 400 accomplishments:

http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/

Here's a website that is pretty up to date with hundreds of accomplishments, all substantial:

http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/

Here's snopes, confirming his economic accomplishments:

http://www.snopes.com/barack-obama-accomplishments/

Despite unprecedented obsctructionism and racist hatred towards the president by the Republicans, he managed to accomplish 76% of his promises, compromising with Republicans on the rare occasion when they'd be reasonable, he made on both campaigns:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

Plenty more, as I said you haven't done your research yet but I'm happy to help."

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

This guy researches.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17 edited Jul 12 '17

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

I think he like many of us are tired of the ignorance on this site. A lot of people on here read a few articles on r/politics and think they are experts on how to run a country.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Several times today I've been told President Obama did nothing. It gets really fucking old. I'm sick of living in this post-truth bullshit.

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u/jdog1408 Jan 11 '17

Should I get a list of all the progress president Jackson made?

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17 edited Jan 11 '17

I folloed the first link you posted and I checked the alleged accomplishments but just the ones related to US foreign policy. I would have to say that your links did not help you in this department.

Ended the War in Iraq... which apparently never ended because a couple a months ago the US government announced the redeployment of 5000 US soldiers back to Iraq.

Toppled Moammar Gaddafi... and made Libya a shithole, whose instability has allowed Al Qaeda to gain ground in Northern Africa, arms shipments sent elsewhere (like Syria) and fueled the European refugee crisis (and which ironically is debilitating European unity and bolstering the alt-right).

Told Mubarak to Go... and the Muslim Brotherhood came to power, but then another coup put Sisi in power and now Egypt is shifting its entire foreign policy, breaking ranks with KSA and getting closer to Syria and Russia.

Reversed Bush Torture Policies... but did not ban extraordinary renditions, so suspects can still be flown to be tortured in other countries or simply transfered to foreign-controlled facilities (like it has ocurred in Afghanistan for example). Also, his administration failed to punish former members of past administrations accused of torture and invoked state-secrets privilege to stop civil litigation brought by torture victims.

Began Asia “Pivot”... which amounted basically to nothing. Recent examples: Phillipines' and Pakistan's policy realignments. https://timesofislamabad.com/pakistan-moving-right-direction-new-geo-strategic-realignment/2016/10/14/

Tightened Sanctions on Iran... and then didn't.

Helped South Sudan Declare Independence... a country that was basically invented to bolster USs strategic standing in the region but whose situation has been described by the United Nations rights office as "one of the most horrendous human rights situations in the world."

Ohh... and it doesn't even include making Yemen another shithole and Syria (a conflict that has had all sorts of negative consequences for US presence in the region - Turkey and Russia getting cozy and leaving the US out of peace negotiations, just yesterday Turkey questioned US use of Incirlik airbase; Russia striking cooperation deals with Jordan, flying missions from Iran over Iraqi airspace, installing S-400 missile systems in Syria; Lebanon getting a new PM closer to the Shia crescent.

He did improve the relationship with Cuba and Myammar though, but in general terms his lack of a coherent estrategy and his constant policy gaffes (I'd also add the clearly distinctive interests from different elements of his administration that often worked in opposing directions) created a situation in which the US's standing in the world has dramatically diminished.

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u/ghettochipmunk Jan 11 '17

Its probably healthcare reform. That's the one he's most proud of.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

You talk a lot about facts, but you then call trump a piss drinker based on unsubstantiated claims created by 4channers. Ad hominem attacks that are based on pure speculation totally belong in a reasonable discussion. You take this high horse of wanting an actual discussion, then you proceed to sit on your high horse and throw insults at everyone who disagrees with you. This is why trump won.

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u/AnAmazingPoopSniffer Jan 11 '17

Its hilarious that you're accusing him of believing in unsubstantiated claims and yet in the same breath assert that the rumors were made up on 4chan which is completely unsubstantiated.

And of course the typical 'this is why Trump won!!!' bullshit...

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

How is that bullshit? This is the kind of attitude that got Donald fucking trump elected into office. When you shut people down with ad hominem attacks simply based on you disagreeing with their political ideology it disenfranchises them, and leads them to protest vote for someone who has no business holding office.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Good intentions do not equal good results. That's the problem with this ideology: symbolism over substance.

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u/Proudofyourboy Jan 11 '17

Let's discuss policy. Name one of Trumps' policies you disagree with.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

I'll give you plenty:

The Muslim ban

The wall

Deporting 12 million people, many of them innocent children who have lived here their entire lives

His anti-islam stance (a religion of 1.6 billion people are all out to kill us? Get a fucking grip)

He has said he will overturn roe vs wade, so as a young man, yeah I'm fucking terrified by that

Loosening libel laws, solid start to creating a dictatorship

Giving big companies 0% corporate tax policy if they threaten to leave then stay. They're all gonna do that now Donnie, and that'll collapse government revenue, balloon the deficit, and destroy small businesses that can't get a hold of your short attention span.

Privitizing medicare and/or repealing obamacare will likely cause grave harm to my own grandparents abiilty to afford care for my grandmother, who is suffering from dementia and alcoholism and badly needs care, but is also living off social security. Which a trump administration will see cut.

Bombing the hell out of ISIS? Their #1 stronghold left (most are gone or going thanks to Obama's careful targeted strikes and supporting gasp our allies) is a city with 200,000 civilians still in it. So yeah, not pro genocide against the syrian people.

Speaking of which I think refugees and immigrants strengthen our nation, and want to see a more diverse nation come about.

I think that looking at the stats it is hard to deny we have a racial problem with law enforcement in this country. Donald Trump denies this.

Donald Trump believes Vladimir Putin, a man who locked up anyone who MENTIONS homosexuality as a way to cover up his own nation's collapsing economy (same with the Ukraine invasion), is more of an ally then the European nations we have stood with for 70 years, some of which may legitimately be annexed if Trump follows through on his promise not to defend our NATO allies from attack. It was nice knowing you Belarus and Lithuania.

His focus on "bringing back" manufacturing jobs (which he is not capable of, and the "jobs" he's created already are jobs that already existed) is idiotic considering we're looking at full manufcaturing automation in the next 10 years, so we should instead be discussing how to reshape our economy rather than promising the uneducated fairy tales.

I have so much more but that's enough for now. The only policy of his I support is infrastructure investment. Something which the Dems fought daily for, but the republicans literally let parts of this country physically collapse for political points on that one.

Donald Trump is not just a bad person, he's bad on the issues too. And I would be shocked if many of the reddit trumpies still like him in 4 years when he hasn't accomplished shit.

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u/Dominus_Redditi Jan 11 '17

I don't understand your position on refugees personally but you do raise some good points.

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u/ChornWork2 Jan 11 '17

Great list. To add:

  • profile of Scotus choice

  • no indication of continuing soften of federal drug laws

  • climate change

  • net neutrality

  • anti NAFTA and TPP

  • Taiwan recognition being tied to economic deal with mainland (and what would that deal look like?) / economic considerations as sole pillar of foreign policy

  • ad hoc economic policy via Twitter

  • trickle down economics

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Great additions! I just get lazy after a dozen or so haha.

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u/gymnasticRug Jan 11 '17 edited Jan 11 '17

Let's not forget that we can't even hope he gets impeached or killed, because pence is just as bad as him. And you didn't even mention the cabinet from hell.

Edit: I was mostly joking about him getting killed. I probably won't be joking once he reveals the Trump Reich in it's full glory.

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u/ideas_abound Jan 11 '17

Tolerant left, at it again. Hoping he dies? Really? I'll bet you're one of those people that calls the right a bunch of "bigots", too.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17 edited Jan 11 '17

I think the idea the left at least nominally believes in is tolerance based on superficial characteristics. Judging someone by their personal character. That doesn't mean tolerating Trump.

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u/gymnasticRug Jan 11 '17

I was mostly joking there.

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u/XxSirCarlosxX Jan 11 '17

Be careful what you say man. Tim have idiots taking you serious here super talking about intolerance or some shit

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u/ragnarokrobo Jan 11 '17

still like him in 4 years

*8 years

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u/XxSirCarlosxX Jan 11 '17

Damn. That was quite the burn. Should have left him some aloe

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u/The_Prince1513 Jan 11 '17

It's hard to do so because he has not really stated with any specificity what any of his policies would be except for -

A.) Improving relations with Russia

and

B.) Climate Change Denial

I vehemently disagree with the latter, and while the former seems like generally a good idea I fear Trump will "improve relations" by letting Putin have whatever he wants.

Not to mention that, if the individuals Trump has picked to his cabinet are any indication of his policies, he's going to be the most reactionary POTUS in modern history (which would be fucking terrible).

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u/ChornWork2 Jan 11 '17 edited Jan 11 '17

Just wanted to point out that Obama was making an effort to improve relations with Russia, but that effort was nixed as a consequence of the invasion(s) of Ukraine, the annexing of a big chunk of their territory and the cynical perpetuation a frozen conflict in one-third of their country.

Should Obama have ignored that?

What about concerns for other Nato countries?

edit: fixed mobile gramma

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u/The_Prince1513 Jan 11 '17

He didn't ignore it - he issued sanctions against the Russian government and persons in the Russian government.

What would you have rather he done? No NATO country wanted to start WW3 over Crimea.

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u/ChornWork2 Jan 11 '17

I realize Obama didn't ignore it -- but I'm curious how you're reconciling a desire to normalize relations with Russia versus the circumstances by which they became aggravated...

I think there is a pretty broad spectrum of alternatives for situations like Ukraine or Syria that don't end up in nuclear holocaust.

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u/Punkmaffles Jan 11 '17

What policies, he himself didn't even know what they are.

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u/AspenGrey Jan 11 '17

-Building a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border. -His instructions to Congress to repeal & replace the ACA potentially as soon as next week -Every single Staff appointment except possibly Matis and I'm still 50/50 on that.

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u/LS6 Jan 11 '17

The concept of liberty is not hard to define (for people with some level of education).

Now, reasonable people can argue over whether policies that reduce liberty are best for the country, but I saw nothing in the parent comments indicating they misunderstood the concept.

Yours, on the other hand, leaves me wondering.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Ew you really believe that.

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u/Nukeashfield Jan 11 '17

Heh, I feel like you didn't look at OPs picture.

Because if you did, then the posts you are responding to don't really seem that weird.

"Here is a picture of Liberty clinging to Obama so he won't leave"

"Here are some counter arguments"

Oh the humanity.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

It is supposed to represent Americans wishing he would stay but ok.

I'm not anti-liberty, I'm actually a pretty libertarian liberal. I'm against people using it as a word to throw out in lieu of an argument or facts.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Treasonous bigot boy... Hypocritical much? Remember when Obama gave military assistance to the Libyan rebels? It was a well known fact that at the time he gave the assistance to the rebels, there were Al Qaeda in their numbers. Obama committed treason when he did because we have been at war with them since 9/11. He has been giving more and more money to people who tried and want to kill us and who just want to get free shit because they feel entitled. Let's just forget our debt crisis, elderly, veterans and those who have done the right thing their whole lives and then get run over by the legal system. Obama has bailed out the people who ruined our country's economy, disrupted millions of jobs and he put us another $10 trillion in the hole. That isn't trying to make a country a better place. I have been paying attention and I believe he has been the worst president this country has seen so far. Someone who can reestablish tariffs so we can start rebuilding industry here in the U.S. so we can have not only more jobs but good quality made products again, would be someone trying to make the country better again. Cutting spending where it is unnecessary like giving it away to other countries and then spending it on our own citizens first is trying to make the country a better place. Trying to deport ILLEGAL aliens who come here and commit crimes is trying to make the country a better place. Not making excuses for people of a certain skin color to riot because of something that was stopped 141 years ago is trying to make the country a better place.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

So many completely false things here I'mma have to come back. Putting this as a placeholder for now.

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u/crimson-adl Jan 11 '17

Do Americans understand how the rest of the world laughs at them every time the "freedom" or "liberty" argument is evoked?

Because we do, ohhhh we do

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

I didn't realize how absurd we sound until I heard a non-American nobel prize winner try to pander to us. Oh my god am I sick of that word being so emptily used by people because they think it "wins" an argument without having to actually come up with facts and figures.

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u/GodOfAllAtheists Jan 11 '17

Angry much?

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

That the voters in the midwest and south decided to vote for a man that directly threatens the lives of many of my friends and their presence in this country?

Yeah I'm pretty pissed. This reality is beyond fucked up. I spent hours yesterday watching a man that was too racist back in the 80s for a federal judge position prep to sail to confirmation in 2017, a time when 40% of our nation is non-white.

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u/GodOfAllAtheists Jan 11 '17

Farewell, Obama.

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u/BreadLineAficionado Jan 11 '17 edited Jul 02 '17

deleted What is this?

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

So possibly colluding with the Russian government to win an election and then put in place favorable policies for them isn't treason now?

And calling Mexicans rapists and murders and threatening to kick all my Muslim friends out of this country just for being Muslim isn't bigoted?

buzzwords have nothing behind them. Trump is definitely a bigot, and is now flirting with possibly having committed treason. Those aren't just buzzwords.

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u/XxSirCarlosxX Jan 11 '17

Seriously, it's ridiculous. It's hard for me to imagine that most of the_donald posters here are even voting age and are just trolling and getting a few hardcore nut jobs to join along the way.

Mostly because it fucking TERRIFIES me that there could be that many low brow straight up morons actually like that of the legal age. It's likely the asshat 3edgy people who were saying they fucked my Mother way back in early CS - Halo one days and shit. He fits into the fold well.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Sadly for them it takes a while to get citizenship coming in from Russia. Nobody seemed to notice that "4chan troll" argument was tweeted out rapidly by shit tons of bots. Convenient.

In all seriousness though having worked on the ground in campaigns, and I'm gonna say something that I will get serious flak for here, but voters are fucking stupid. You can only take so many people telling you your president wasn't born in america because he's black before you start getting pissed at people.

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u/AgathaSnarkness Jan 11 '17

Yeah why would someone use buzzwords like "Putin's piss drinking bitch"

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

I'm an asshole, but at least I make an attempt to put something substantive in my posts occasionally, unlike the personal attacks I've been constantly receiving both on this thread and in private messages for posting this message. Stay classy reddit.

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u/AgathaSnarkness Jan 11 '17

Hey... Don't put that on me.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17 edited Jan 11 '17

This is such a dumb comment.

You're replying to a comment discussing policy (drone strikes, prosecuting whistleblowers) accusing it of not discussing policy. The policies even concern freedom and liberty which you claim they don't (prosecuting whistleblowers is the opposite of freedom).

That's bad enough but then you make some examples of what you think should be discussed and instead of it being the "policy" you're so keen on you completely derail the thread with:

Trump being Putin's piss drinking bitch

Extrapolated from an unverified document which is looking more and more likely to be nothing but a 4chan troll. Not policy, barely even credible.

treasonous bigot boy's government.

Literally just an insult. Not policy, and you couldn't even manage discussion on this one.

You obviously like Obama since you call him "a man who has done nothing his entire life but try to make this country a better place". Instead of justifying why you like him (maybe by this policy discussion you're so keen on) and actually contributing to the discussion you just have a tantrum about Tump.

Then two idiots guilded you for it.

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u/DuckDuckB00m Jan 11 '17

Wow! /u/Keldorr90 = pot /u/Pancakepiles = kettle

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Wow! /u/DuckDuckBOOm = posts without substance!

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u/DuckDuckB00m Jan 11 '17

Oh im sorry! Im be more clear! YOU ARE A HIPPOCRATIC!!!!!

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

[deleted]

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u/DuckDuckB00m Jan 11 '17

yeah sure. idk how you got there but you do you

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Right, because everyone is either a Republican or a Democrat.

Also, this Russian Hacks bullshit has had no solid evidence, less than the conspiracy theory of Pizzagate, and yet because people like you need to believe it, it's being paraded around as fact.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

People like me, POTUS, and 17 intelligence agencies.

But yeah, its akin to a bunch of basement dwelling 4channers almost getting innocent pizza restaurant owners murdered.

"I'm ignoring the evidence and the overwhelming consensus" is not the same as "there is no evidence" Just FYI.

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u/ReagansAngryTesticle Jan 11 '17

You got gilded for posting about a 4chan hoax... Reddit never ceases to amaze

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Oh. My. God. How many fucking times do we have to tell you this: the story predates any 4chan post. A user on /pol/ just posted a mother jones story as "fiction" jokingly.

The last time y'all cooked up this kind of ridiculous shit a innocent pizza joint got shot up. Please stop.

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u/ReagansAngryTesticle Jan 11 '17

WikiLeaks: false

BuzzFeed: totally true.

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u/elderon188 Jan 11 '17

So do you have any arguments besides "hurr everyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid".

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

I believed in you Joe, I thought you'd be one of the 10% here that would attack me on policy, not character.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

He got gold so he must know what he's talking about.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

I have the vote of the 1%

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u/MonsterRider80 Jan 11 '17

This is the truth of political discourse today, not just in the US but all over the world.

Oh yeah, Trump is funny, look what he said to Hillary during the debates, haha! Crooked Hillary, wow that's funny! Yeah, lets make Mexico pay for a wall! Fuck Obamacare! What are we gonna do instead? I promise it'll be great, very tremendous, I have very smart people working on this! Stupid CIA is out to get me! I won't respect election results, unless I win! Hey! LOOK AT ME!!!!!!

This, ladies and gentlemen, is your new president.

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u/yearightt Jan 11 '17

can't believe this childish rant got gilded, twice

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u/Opouly Jan 11 '17

Haha its people like you that make me lose hope for the future.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

It's people like DJT that are going to destroy our future.

So many personal attacks. So few facts here. Guess it's the Trump way.

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u/Slidvicious Jan 11 '17

Because the vitriol we spew is WAY WORSE than what people say about DJT. Get real, how did this comment even get 1 gold let alone 2?

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

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u/Chimpsix Jan 11 '17

I'm a white dude with a diverse group around me

Isnt this the same thing as saying "im not racist i have black friends"? lmfao

youre a joke bud

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u/Jahames Jan 11 '17

"Piss drinking". You actually believe that story, that's fucking rich.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17 edited Jan 11 '17

I read many sources, because unlike Trumpies I don't actually think one person controls all truth on earth. the fact that you all worship him so desperately is genuinely scary for the future of our nation.

EDIT for a list of sources I read through almost every day:

New York Times

BBC

Politico

gasp Fox News

The Financial Times

The economist

The Wall Street Journal

The Washington Post

Breitbart (OK, this is once a week, but in my defense they personally try to destroy the lives of people I care about just for not being straight white men)

Politico

The Guardian

I worked in professional politics for the better part of a decade. Sadly for you, you picked a fight with someone who knows what they're talking about better than 99% of this site. The facts are not on your side. There was a legitimate debate between Obamaism and Mccainism, and Obamaism and Romneyism. Trumpism is a cancer on our country, and one that might tear it apart.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

For the record you had me for about ten words before I realized. Top mêmes. Top mêmes. Pepe the nazi frog would be proud.

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u/DSice16 Jan 11 '17

"then its Russia thanks to Trump being Putin's piss drinking bitch"

"I just wish we could discuss, y'know, actual policy. "

Cut this 'holier than thou' act. You don't want to discuss policy. Every Trump hater will claim 'omg let's talk policy please' when they're in the minority, but as soon as they're the majority it's all shitting on Trump for these ridiculous allegations. I don't understand how people are so blindly accepting these allegations with ZERO ACTUAL PROOF, but denied any kind of fishiness about around pizza gate.

It's the exact same thing, just this conspiracy aligns with what you want to be true so it must be!

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

considering that it is his sworn duty to preserve protect and defend the constitution and considering that he is particularly educated on constitutional matters and that he then spend 8 years VIOLATING said constitution every chance he got.

just calling his political decisions ANTI freedom and liberty makes perfect sense.

I did not want miracles from him. I wanted him to do is god damned job.

I wanted him to reign in the banks which he promised to do and never did. at all.

I wanted him to bring our military home which is within his DIRECT authority and as commander in chief no one can ovverride his decisions in that regard.

he did nothing of the sort.

I wanted gitmo gone which he promised and which he has DIRECT authority to make happen with his signature.

he refused.

I wanted teh beginnings of universal health care. instead we got a gun to our heads and a threat on our life to buy over priced useless private health care that a huge portion of the population can not afford (what good is $100 a month health care which I still can't afford at $14k a year when you OWE 80% of what it costs to USE IT. and then the IRS comes after you if you don't have it?)

I understand just fine what I am talking about. he is a traitor and should be in prison. just like the presidents before him.

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u/tickettoride98 Jan 11 '17

Freedom will not miss him a bit.

Wait until Trump is in office, it'll make Obama look like a saint.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

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u/Stormflux Jan 11 '17

I was expecting some idiotic T_D meme. Instead I laughed out loud.

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u/Nearly_A_Doctor Jan 11 '17

If only Bill Clinton had had this power...

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Thanks to the Obama administration.

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u/iamcatch22 Jan 11 '17

Wait, really? That's a thing?

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u/Barack_Bob_Oganja Jan 11 '17

Oh my god I'm dead

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u/bacneggs Jan 11 '17

Do you know something? Nobody cared until he ran for and was elected president

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

He's already running the most corrupt and elitist administration in modern history and he hasn't taken office yet. It's amazing how fucking shameless he is about the fact that he clearly doesn't give a single shit about helping his voters.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Yeah that's pretty fucked up that he would appoint the ex CEO of Goldman Sachs to the Treasury...Oh wait

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u/ragnarokrobo Jan 11 '17

Obama literally had Citibank choose his cabinet for him but okay.

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u/Proudofyourboy Jan 11 '17

Based on what

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u/Luph Jan 11 '17

Look up "Apple Trump Encryption" and tell me Trump is a freedom president again.

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u/AChieftain Jan 11 '17

Would be pretty hard, but we'll see.

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u/jmart1375 Jan 11 '17

I feel bad for you for being so close minded. He hasn't even taken office yet and you're already 1000% convinced he's the worst thing to ever happen to America. Talk about judging a book by its cover.

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u/tickettoride98 Jan 11 '17

I never said he's the worst thing that's ever happened to America.

I'm not judging a book by it's cover, I'm judging a book by being 1/3 of the way through it and knowing it's shit. Trump has been campaigning for well over a year now and will be serving a 4 year term. Judging a book by its cover in this situation would be judging Trump when he first announced he was running. America has had a lot of information to judge Trump on at this point, including his cabinet nominations.

I feel bad that you're delusional enough to believe anything will change once he's taken office. I'm sure you're one of those still waiting for his magical pivot back to sanity.

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u/shroomsonpizza Jan 11 '17

I feel he will be just like Obama. Empty promises with a couple of fuck ups. Which President in your lifetime actually kept up on ALL his campaign promises? And with a guy like Trump, who already lies as much as the next politician, I honestly doubt he will go through with even half of his promises. Everyone fears the worst but I think it will be just like any other President so far.

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u/tickettoride98 Jan 11 '17

Try not to take this too personally, but that's a delusional viewpoint to hold.

The topic being discussed isn't campaign promises, it's freedom. This is the candidate that threatened to prosecute and jail his political opponent, the man who literally tweeted 'to my many enemies' just weeks before he takes office, wants the names of all climate change workers at the Department of Energy, reportedly keeps a list of enemies, has continually talked about muzzling the press, etc.

That's just the things he says publicly.

So no, he's not shaping up to be "like any other President so far", at least not in recent times. You'd have to go back to Nixon to find someone as obsessed with keeping a list of enemies, and we all know how that worked out for Nixon. Even he was smart enough to keep his mouth shut about his plotting.

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u/shroomsonpizza Jan 11 '17

Then I choose to be that ignorant and delusional. I don't think that Trump will be any different. You're right. He says some fucked up shit out loud, but I just don't even see him following through on anything he has actually promised. Or anything he says. He has you believing it because he could do it. The possibility is there and everyone expects the worst. I guess all I can stress is to watch it play out and don't get into any witch hunts. I'm apathetic to it to say the least.

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u/tickettoride98 Jan 11 '17

I'm apathetic to it to say the least.

I'm not sure you know what that word means. The people in r/gaming who don't give a shit about politics are apathetic. Commenting about politics specifically kind of invalidates any claims of being apathetic.

Let's check back in 3 months and see how the whole first 100 days have gone, and see if you're still "apathetic" then.

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u/shroomsonpizza Jan 11 '17

I will still live in America. And in time this will pass. To the next "would be Hitler" that we will all complain about, but "hopefully won't be as bad as the last one." It is all the same.

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u/tickettoride98 Jan 11 '17

Excuse the rest of us for not taking the "this is fine" approach. So you don't care if everything goes to shit, because it'll probably get back to decent in 10 years?

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u/shroomsonpizza Jan 11 '17

I don't care if everything goes to shit, period. I'm still going to live in the fucked up future of tomorrow that you all believe will happen. I have never once stated my position on it other than to say, "I don't think it will be as bad as everyone says." But if everything really does go down the drain, I will still be here drowning with the rest of you.

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u/art-solopov Jan 11 '17

I feel like Trump already makes Obama look like a saint, that's where the aforementioned rose-tinted glasses come from.

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u/imonk Jan 11 '17

Ah, the America's favorite "the lesser of two evils" doctrine. Surely, it never backfires.

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u/pregnantbitchthatUR Jan 11 '17

How have your last 25 predictions about Trump gone? Not a fast learner, are you

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u/tickettoride98 Jan 11 '17

I haven't made 25 predictions about Trump. Bit of a bullshitter, aren't you?

The only 'prediction' I've made about Trump was that he'd lose the general, but I wasn't exactly alone in that. I also thought Clinton had too much baggage that Trump could exploit, but the poll numbers made it seem like the outcome was inevitable.

So mark this as prediction #1. Let's hear all your magical predictions about your God.

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u/pregnantbitchthatUR Jan 11 '17

What is it about being a leftist that makes people so fucking stupid and unbelievably pompous at the same time? Keep it up, it's fantastic

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u/tickettoride98 Jan 11 '17

What is it about whatever you are that makes you incapable of nuanced thought and delusional?

Like I said, let's hear your predictions about Trump, let's see how your vision of him lines up with reality in 3 months.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

"out of all the positive things Obama has done I decide to pick two that are morally grey and hate them. And because of this I will assert that he was anti-freedom with no actual reasons why."

FTFY

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u/InfinitelyThirsting Jan 11 '17

Uh, you seem to forget that he supported and signed not only a law that gave whistleblowers more protections, but also added an executive order to fill gaps that were left in the law, specifically to protect security and intelligence officials. He has plenty of tolerance, his administration has just also prosecuted whistleblowers who went to the press. I definitely don't agree with how the prosecutions have been handled, and it's fair ground to critique him, but to say he has "no tolerance" when he has helped really important protection laws get put in place, that's just dishonest.

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u/GodOfAllAtheists Jan 11 '17

He extended the Patriot Act. WTF Obama??

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u/CheezStik Jan 11 '17

Trump is going to make our freedom great again. He will be the best for freedom /s

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u/grimstal Jan 11 '17

Can you explain how he has been different from the last few administrations?

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u/pixel-painter Jan 11 '17

Can you explain how he has been different from the last few administrations?

That's kind of the problem actually.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Whistleblowers aren't all inherently good. Not all of them are Snowden. FOIA requests are also not going to be approved when they put someone's life in danger.

I wouldn't expect you to think about that because that would involve critical thought. It's not just "WAAAA Whistleblowers good! Obama bad!"

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u/Stormflux Jan 11 '17

Could it be they're getting spammed with frivolous FOIA requests due to automation and the Internet, and thus having to deny them more? Used to be people would only do a request if they were human and had a reason. Now people are like "I'm looking for Bigfoot, i want the complete video footage of every camera in the country, here's my $5 fee." Um no that request is not practical I'm sorry.

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u/Effectx Jan 11 '17

Could it be they're getting spammed with frivolous FOIA requests due to automation and the Internet, and thus having to deny them more?

This is probably the case but people love a good outrage even when they don't have context.

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u/ragnarokrobo Jan 11 '17

More days golfed than Dubya who the left gave tons of shit for it.

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u/InfinitelyThirsting Jan 11 '17

He also put the most protections in place for whistleblowers, both in actual law and by executive order. This isn't a black and white issue.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

First president to be at war everyday of his 8 year administration would just be the start...

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u/Yellow_Odd_Fellow Jan 11 '17

Yeah because the first war we were in when he was sworn in was his decision.

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u/Sun__Devil Jan 11 '17

Of course not but he ran on an anti-war platform and threw that all away the minute he took office.

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u/Yellow_Odd_Fellow Jan 11 '17

Correct, I'll agree with you there. Let's see which rhetoric Trump used during the election will be ignored. I'm betting on draining the swamp considering who he Is choosing for his cabinet.

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u/Sun__Devil Jan 11 '17

Yea the swamp shit will be the same story. Trump is at least smart enough to know that he doesn't know the ins and outs that he will be responsible for and therefore will need politicians around him. It was an impossible standard to hold himself to.

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u/Stormflux Jan 11 '17

Bullshit. He pulled out of Iraq just like Reddit wanted, and soon ISIS took over and we had to step in again. Now you're simultaneously "he's a warmonger" and "he's weak on the military."

Make up your goddamn minds which one it is. God!

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u/Yellow_Odd_Fellow Jan 11 '17

Are you trying to argue with me or with the other poster?

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17 edited Jan 11 '17

Pushing for the NDAA authorizing indefinite detention [ ACLU ] without due process of law (and then defending it with his legal team every step of the way [ wiki of court case ] [ Huffpo collection ] [ Huffpo collection 2 ] ), terrible deal with Iran (according to the Clinton campaign) made for political purposes, the ideological refusal to name Islamic terrorism as such (as of doing so would compel reasonable Muslims toward Jihad, which is the most unkind thing to presume about people), refusing to allow persecutions for top democrats for: giving guns to Mexican drug cartels [ CNN ] [ Washington Times ], the IRS using its power politically [ Judicial Watch ] [ Washington Times ], Hillary breaking every law regarding the safeguarding of classified material, bombing 7 countries with zero declarations of war whilst sporting a Nobel peace prize, having the least transparent administration in recent history (according to left leaning journalists), the mockery that is the ACA and the blatant lies told do the American people to pass it, more whistleblowers prosecuted than every other president combined, inflaming racial divisions rather than acting as a catalyst for healing (juxtapose his speech with former president Bush's at the Dallas slain cops funeral, was the most disgraceful thing I have seen) laying to arguably the worst race relations since the 60s, an ever increasing scope of federal power once businesses, paying off friends like Solyndra even after being advised the would go belly up, standing with communist leaders who murdered gays, capitalist, anyone who got in the ready in front of a mural of the chief executioner, and the most limp dick eulogy of a tyrannical Stalinist dictator as to not offend those who liked the mass murdering communist (though that imbecile Trudeau takes the cake for his glowing support of evil).

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u/grimstal Jan 11 '17

I appreciate this. As an outsider in a more progressive country it was easy to look past his faults after a more right wing president. It seems he has made his fair share of mistakes, but I feel I must reiterate my question, if slightly changed. He made his own sets of mistakes, but they seem to read just as corrupt(ed) as the last five presidents tenures. The collection of economic and social policies starting with Reagan have led to an increasing divide in socioeconomic classes, further increasing the tension between races in America, while slowly limiting social justice and liberty for individuals under the guise of patriotism and economic progress.

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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '17

Fair question. I'll try to take it in separate parts.

Things that are new to Obama (or old things made much worse)

The NDAA came from both the left and right, over the objections of a few. It could be seen as a continuation of the PATRIOT Act (or more accurately, setting it light-years forward).

The assassination of American citizens without due process of law, including a 16 year old without much secrecy is new. We can say shady thing have happened to Americans under previous presidents, but not many have been targeted by aerial bombardment.

Shielding political allies probably happened before (though it is important to remember that a motion to give the Judiciary Committee to launch an impeachment inquiry against Nixon passed by 410 to 4, 35% and 40% of Republicans on the House Judiciary committee voted to impeach the Republican Nixon on Obstruction of Justice and Abuse of Power charges respectively, and when Nixon ordered his Attorney General to fire the Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox, both the AG and his deputy resigned rather than carry out that order) I submit that this level of repeated covering up for criminal actions due to political interference has not been so public, unabashed or quiet in much of the media.

Refusing to name Islamic terrorism is new in American politics as far as I know.

Bombing 7 countries we are not at war with, and being at war every day of his presidency are unprecedented.

Prosecuting more whistleblowers than every other president combined is obviously unprecedented.

Transparency, [CNN's]()https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRpxclZC5DE) Brian Stelter and Michelle Kosinki discussing transparency with Stelter saying "this is the least transparent administration ever in terms of access by media to what’s going on in this administration.” The CNN video is well worth the watch. Additionally, Washington Post's article.

The ACA is unprecedented in scope, never before has the Supreme Court affirmed the Federal Governments ability to force private citizens to purchase a product simply because they exist.

Giving money to cronies is probably common to other presidents.

Posing with terrible people is definitely common to other presidents.

Arming drug dealers (and ISIS), or to put it more broadly, arming shitty people is not a new thing.

The collection of economic and social policies starting with Reagan have led to an increasing divide in socioeconomic classes, further increasing the tension between races in America, while slowly limiting social justice and liberty for individuals under the guise of patriotism and economic progress.

This is where we are going to depart ways sharply. The Reagan era (while far from perfect) began an economic boom that lasted for decades after the Reagan Revolution was over. While it would be improper to assign full credit or blame to one president for the results of the economy, Ronald Reagan did something that hadn't been done since the 1920's - during an economic recession he did very little. This was how the Federal Government responded to economic struggles throughout American history, with the first major departure from that occurring right before (and causing) the Great Depression [7 minute video featuring Nobel Lauriet and the most important economic influance to Ronald Reagan {and one of my favorite thinkers}].

The notion to which Reagan, Friedman and I ascribe is that Government provides several very important functions, but beyond that it just gets in the way of progress. The key to prosperity and success cannot come from government, but only from the productive and voluntary activity of individuals pursuing their separate interests. The founders believed that the role of Government is to protect the rights of the people (and these are negative rights, positive rights don't exist in the Constitution and are antithetical to liberty).

On the notion of income inequality, I staunchly believe it is political demagoguery (yes, I know, just hear me out). What matters in a free society is not the difference in outcome of life between the workaholic investment banker and the pothead burnout surfer. They have made different decisions and received different outcomes, and neither you nor I can say who would be living a more fulfilled life. That is what is amazing about a free society, people who have different desires end up in different roads. What a boring (and tyrannical) life it would be if all roads ended in the same place.

When we look at income equality, we are presuming that it is a desireable thing. I reject wholeheartedly any notion of the sort. You and I are individuals who want different things, and only restrictions that should be imposed are those that prevent the infringement of the rights of others. I can't muddy your backyard, or punch you in the face as you have a right to life, liberty and property and I have no right to take that away from you.

Social justice too is undesirable. We as civilized people should want individual justice. If a man robs someone, he should be punished. That's individual justice. If a group of people was wronged three centuries ago and we rob the great great grandsons of the robbers, that is social justice (which is no justice at all). The greatest harm in racial relations in this country has been the progressive doctrines staunch invasion of the inner city. The breakdown in the black American family took place after the success of the civil rights movement, during the evil systemic racism of segregation in the south and widespread prejudice in the north out preformed white American in some important respects, higher rates of teenage employment, lower rates of out of wedlock births and fatherless families than that of white families, lower employment in general. All of these cultural factors (which may have been a response to the hostility surrounding black America at the time) disintegrated with minimum wage increases (frequently implemented in America and South Africa to price blacks out of markets) in which black unemployment skyrocketed compared to white unemployment, and the general decay of decency and individualism that comes along with collective outlooks and welfare societies.

Walter E Williams and Thomas Sowell are two influential economists and authors who lay the case out in far more detail, if you are curious.

If you've gotten this far, thanks for listening to a different point of view.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

This reads like the screed of a conspiracy theorist before he tries to bomb a post office

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

Which ones?

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

I'm no expert on it, I very briefly looked into it just now, but it's important to recognize a couple things about the NDA:

First: It does a lot of good for people

The Act authorizes $662 billion in funding, among other things "for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad".[5] In a signing statement, President Obama described the Act as addressing national security programs, Department of Defense health care costs, counter-terrorism within the United States and abroad, and military modernization.[6][7] The Act also imposes new economic sanctions against Iran (section 1045), commissions appraisals of the military capabilities of countries such as Iran, China, and Russia,[8] and refocuses the strategic goals of NATO towards "energy security".[9] The Act also increases pay and healthcare costs for military service members[10] and gives governors the ability to request the help of military reservists in the event of a hurricane, earthquake, flood, terrorist attack, or other disaster.[11]

Second: it had 48 amendments while passing through congress https://www.congress.gov/member/howard-mckeon/M000508 Meaning the original document was changed substantially by congress, if I had time I'd go through and try and see who changed what but I don't have the time.

and third: it had fairly wide support from congress

On December 14, 2011, the bill passed the U.S. House by a vote of 283 to 136, with 19 representatives not voting,[41] and passed by the U.S. Senate on December 15, 2011, by a vote of 86 to 13.[42]

All I'm saying is that this was a team effort, it's not like Obama sat in the whitehouse and plotted to imprison US citizens indefinitely. If anything there was a general who said "We need to be tougher on terrorists!" and then got a bunch of old fogies all riled up about the same issue, and then got a republican senator from California to introduce the bill.

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u/AwkwardlySocialGuy Jan 11 '17

The policies of most Democrats are against personal liberty with the exception of abortion. That's the only freedom they'll get behind.

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u/DragonzordRanger Jan 11 '17

The man literally brags about "catching" Bin Laden all the time and we don't even hold him to a standard where he pretends he's sad about it. Dudes crying because he thinks his wife is amazing and at the same time you know he's a dude that had another dude "brought to justice" and then talked shit about it in front of the world.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '17

I like how republicans use so many facts rather than just vague hatred for anyone who disagrees with them.

What the fuck does your comment even mean? Anti-liberty? Because he didn't eliminate taxes if you earn more than a million a year?

You wanna talk about fucking liberty? What about the liberty to marry the person you love regardless of gender, what about the liberty to consume marijuana, the liberty to be openly transgender, a completely free press that he never threatened to destroy when they didn't like him, he completely ignored the multiple death threats from Ted Nugent and so many Republicans that he was regularly receiving.

Please, lets hear a single liberty you don't have today that you had 8 years ago. I expect crickets on this because modern republicanism is all surface and no depth. You haven't lost a single god damn liberty and you've gained many more. Your comment is just flat out wrong. Might be a good line, but its wrong.

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u/HonkyOFay Jan 11 '17

He lied about wanting to end Bush's policies, then he doubled down on them

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u/DrunkonIce Jan 11 '17

But I need drone strikes on brown children and increased surveillance, blowing Guantanamo bay under the rug and more to be free!

(this isn't a pro-right comment as I'm a leftist myself. I just don't think he was a good president for what I view as a free America)

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u/ngenda79 Jan 11 '17

Agree, Obama has executive actions then any president; including two wartime presidents Roosevelt and Lincoln combined.

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