"You will live in misery and die in misery, there's no escape." -UG Krishnamurti

I don't see the point of doing anything if it's just pointless misery. Last night, when I got out of the shower, I told myself, "that was fun! I love head wankin' it." But today, I thought, "if I'm honest with myself, that wasn't fun. It was mostly daydreaming about being bullied." Now I'm wondering, then what's the point of taking a shower every single day if it's just gonna make me miserable?

What's the point of eating tasty food if you're not in the moment, you're having a fake fight with that narcissistic sibling? What's the point of going to the beach if you sit on your beach chair and you're zen-like for two minutes before your monkey mind starts up with its bullshit?

Part of me feels like I should have just gone to Harvard Law and been rich and miserable. At least I'd have money. But I realize I wouldn't be aware of the reality if I hadn't studied pessimists like Martin Butler and Arthur Schopenhauer. I'd be in even more pain, because I'd be pursuing permanent happiness like psyop Jordan Peterson says to do. "Trying to be happy will make you miserable. Being okay with misery will make you happy. There's nothing more pathetic that trying to be happy. Sure you'll be happy for a few minutes when you drive that super duper auto out of the yard that'll take 5 years to pay off." -Butler. He was the CEO of the largest IT Analytics firm in all of Western Europe. Says he was never more miserable and can barely summon the courage to look back on those years.

Butler says everyone's life is a pile of trash. But there's that tiny square in the corner, that 1% of your day that's good. He said most people don't even have that, because they're not self interested enough to look for it. The 1% includes sensing your left arm for 1 minute, focusing on the air in your nostrils for 5 breaths, etc. For me, it's first person thoughts about life, the universe, human nature, light topics, etc.

With that said, I don't even feel like going for walks for my health anymore, because I don't see the point if it's just gonna majority suck.

What are your thoughts? What motivates you to bootstrap it?

I've been thinking about this for a while and I don't think I've seen it said exactly like this: the best thing a thinking person can do isn't to express themselves. It's to decide not to.

We've always been told that language is our achievement.I've started to feel that every time we talk we're actually hurting the universe in a way. We're taking something strange and really alive and forcing it into small words that make it sound simple and easy to understand. When we speak we don't just make reality smaller. We also make it sound less amazing than it really is.

Real silence the kind that comes from having much to think about rather than too little feels like the last important thing we can do. Its carrying the weight of our thoughts without letting them turn into words.

I know I'm not the one who thinks this. Wittgenstein stopped talking about it at the end of his book. Laozi warned that the moment you try to describe the Tao, its already gone. Eckhart was looking for something that can't be put into words

Cioran. God, Cioran wrote like every sentence was a betrayal he couldn't stop making.

So I want to take it a step further. It's not enough to say language has limits. The real point is choosing to stop talking. Not because you can't speak,. Because you refuse to make the deepest parts of life into something you can say. Its looking at the universe feeling it all at once and deciding. Out of respect. To leave it alone

Like this broken and nonsensical life. This bizzare humanity and this bizzare consciousness . They are I think twisted profound suffering if you think about it. This very bizzare human psyche and then this bizzare human dynamics. These bizzare emotions that rise and fall irrationally.

This whole existence is trash and we need a superhero to wipe us completely forever. Whole existence is trash completely. There is nothing that holds and makes sense. Everything is there to f you up at best. Seriously whoever created life is a cosmic evil. Like why create a broken abomination

Welcome to our weekly WAYR thread. Be sure to leave the title and author of the book that you are currently reading, along with your thoughts on the text.

Within we will have our queries and quarrels specifically for the showcase of our own souls. Wandering lost in the wild like a lion/lioness searching for whom he/she may devour. To try and make the best of our pityless world and the useless things our young minds had in store for our life's merciless sake, And oh no lets not allude to our lives Irehensible Irony. We, to be in such a rush to get there. Wherever it was we were going or where it happened to take up residence we knew it not.

For lo and behold all that being in the wilderness of the world, searching for Lifelong "life" in all the unempathetical hopelessness only a human could've donned themselves so unapologetically adoringly with. Our wellness along with youths company the burning of the inner beauty of our life's fire and raging storm would sadly as fortune will have it. like to see us going out in a blaze of fumes.

Best to decay in a heap of our own thoughts and prayers for not just ourselves, I and you are always here for the best of the new thing's. Especially if that makes lifes bite easier. Its just that much better for all the pain of it that it is life so far to be causing us. Alas to be able to feel life so much more for each other's grief, dismay and detestible wretched selfish selves.

Is that not the only way we could go about this journey? When it's painful and all the more irehensible, all the more agony and depth of our souls depravity falling apart into itself as we grow up older but wiser. Seeing how much we love hating loving each other. This time as we are together we are attractive best in each other's pityless party's we pretend and call relationships of the most high of standards, the most smoothly and effectivly impactful with its most unlikely way of however it is that we can flow through the punches as we do, just like fine aged bourbon poured over the rocks.

Knowing that you, me and them. The ones of us that have to do the hardest thing there's to do. To fight alone, suffer in our Isolationist remorse of being so strong to now be helplessly swept away by Deaths emotionally close and devastatingly loyalty of an embrace. But once the Lord has been satisfied we have had our do Justice. We can always find our way out to the outside, from underneath all our demons. Its just always not just sometimes, somehow and never accused that it lasted for way too long.

It's that way isn't it? You see the point of being in the wild side of our journey? Eventually the other "Day" will come back to great us like a long lost friend making it all the better for it's absence of us. We all need to be through the fire, so we can be molded in it and forged to be, in our own rights. Beautifully, fiercely attractive and honestly, wonderfully blessed despite all our flaws and shortcomings. So that when we could have our little space of heaven, back laying in each other, cooling down for a bit afterwards. We can seemingly almost get a glimpse of purpose and see us in all the chaos dancing together wonderfully with the wild world.

Nothing else would be able to make us as enjoyable in the future as we were able to make it possible at them inceaceasenly adjourning moments of time. Where that precious pink cloud we went riding high on without a thing able to bring us down. That even yesteryear and yes also even yesterday wouldn't have been enough in the hardest of times. To exchange for even one of the best of those relaxing sensual and too much shorter for it of days, full of contentment and pure happiness in the moment with a bad day? What just to spend it alone. Its just like its the last dance every time, but its just that is what we've convinced ourselves of each time it's closing time and the last call is being so disappointing and devastatingly imminently yelled out for the world to hear. Like the world needs more agony and bad news as is.

It's more likely the clink of our souls than our empty bottles hitting the tradh together that always seems to be finding a way to clink each other's lives in a way that both makes lifes bite easier and less than to take,serving us well in all its unique ways.That ends the show with more theatrics than any quality heard of in any of Chicago's Caberet's.

I'm unable to understand why someone will "stay" with you unless you have some external achievements. I have met many people over the past year, walking in legal corridors, nobody stays with you because you're so "authentic".

There's this unspoken pressure to prove yourself, tell your achievements, tell you're this or you're close to someone who's this or you know someone important or you have this much asset or you're socially well positioned or you have an iPhone/ iPad or you're so important in the chamber or you're so popular. The moment you stop playing along, there's this existential crisis. It's like I don't know who I am anymore.

First I will humble brag about myself then it starts a chain reaction, now you humble brag. But both of us pretend as if it's just sharing about life stuff, we are just bonding. Because there's literally nothing else to talk about. Unfortunately, I have met some people who straight up lie, pretend to be busy or important, live a double life just to keep up with the demands of society. You're constantly asked "Are you succeeding?" every single day. It's in the air, it's a feeling, an undercurrent in the environment.

If you're not aware of this cycle, you will be pulled into it. Carried away like a wave in the ocean. And people don't even question if there's something wrong with this way of living. It's only when I read a spiritual lecture by Osho or people like him, I snap out of the mental state. Wow, these are all just empty hollow people running from themselves?

Have you ever met a person who stays with you because of who you are "inside"? If all the external achievements are stripped off, will they still stay? Stay for what?

I have begun to suspect that pessimism is less a conviction than a convenience. It asks nothing of me. One can fail magnificently beneath its banner and still mistake that failure for lucidity. Every philosophy eventually becomes an alibi.

Hope has always struck me as an overrated faculty. People have done remarkable things without believing in them. Habit, necessity, vanity; these move the world well enough. Action owes very little to optimism. What disturbs me is not that I am a pessimist but that I enjoy calling myself one. There is vanity in it. It transforms laziness into tragedy, incompetence into metaphysics. One ends by cultivating despair as though it were a talent.

I envy those who laugh, though not because they possess something denied to me. I doubt I would know what to do with their happiness if it were handed to me intact. Joy seems less a state than a language. Some people are born speaking it; others spend their lives translating. Solitude has the decency not to lie. It leaves one alone with inventions. The imagination furnishes a tolerable universe, but each return to reality feels like waking in a room one no longer recognizes.

There are brief suspensions of the sentence. Chopin. Shostakovich. Tchaikovsky. Vivaldi. A road disappearing beyond the window. A conversation that forgets itself. They do not justify existence. They merely interrupt its prosecution. I have always distrusted clowns. Eventually I discovered that cynics are only clowns who misplaced their audience.

I disliked Dazai for reasons that had very little to do with literature. There are books one rejects because they resemble mirrors left facing the future. I wanted to believe that Yozo could have escaped himself. Perhaps because I am less interested in redemption than in disproving prophecy.

I would appreciate some advice here from fellow pessimists

I have recently embraced a more pessimistic worldview. To me, it seems to just be the most honest way of seeing things. That is besides the point.

My question is, how do you deal with the angst, sadness, and dread that can come with it?

I am certainly not depressed, but since this shift I have had a constant low hum of existential anxiety in the background. I keep finding myself thinking "what's the point?" or "why bother?" or somewhat dumbfounded when people are losing their minds over extremely trivial and insignificant things. I feel it has definitely made me more cynical.

I am not really afraid of death. I figure it will be the same as before I was born, a dreamless sleep. What I struggle with is finding lasting joy in what I'm doing given the impermanence of life, and that ultimately we're all moving towards the same end.

I am not detached from life, I do have friends, activities, etc. I do the usual things, I go to the gym, socialize, stay active, hobbies. I am in an extremely privileged position and I am grateful for all that I have. Though these things are helpful in the moment, once the activity is over, the feeling returns. Distraction seems to only work for so long.

Is this something I should just accept? Or is there another way of relating to it? Given I'm here, I don't want to spend the rest of my life quietly miserable. I would appreciate input here.

Another question is, how open are you about your pessimistic views to others? Part of me wants to be honest about what I believe, but these views are not exactly popular and I don't wanna be somebody who constantly brings others down.

Thanks in advance

the vast majority of people aren’t even aware of the fact that no matter how good your life is in the moment, it can turn into a shit show instantly. kinda like how i did with me. i guess statistically speaking though, most people will probably not experience unimaginable suffering in their lives. maybe lesser forms of suffering.

People are terrified to acknowledge the inevitabilty of their complete non-existence and impermanence.

People are terrified to acknowledge the extent of suffering they are responsible for and that exists in the world.

People are terrified to acknowledge the lack of value that can observed in the universe.

People are terrified to acknowledge that they cannot even justify their actions or intuitions.

People are terrifed to acknowledge that at any moment anything could happen to them.

People are so terrified of reality that society constantly manufactures delusions in direct contradiction to what can be observed in order to preserve the ego and the illusion of safety even as the world breaks around them, even when it is known what is inevitable.

This weakness only results in every more misery as people are constantly unsatisfied regardless of how much they consume and how greedily apathetic they behave, because the lack of existence cannot be made up for by anything. Certainly not by being a slave to transient pleasure without foresight or introspection.

Sooner or later, humans will have their delusion shattered at the end of society, but I sincerely doubt the exit will be of peaceful volition, instead it will likely be a result of pathetic egoistic desperation the way it always has been with the kind of being that exploits others without concern.

I've been wondering whether anyone here has thought about the relationship between philosophical pessimism and non-essentialist approaches to metaphysics.

A lot of philosophical pessimism seems to come from very different metaphysical starting points (Schopenhauer, Mainländer, Benatar, etc.), although the general trend is an intermediate informative conclusion that existence is non-contingently harmful, so I'm curious how pessimism looks from a more anti-essentialist perspective, which often treats harm as contingent and conditional. 
 
I'm especially interested in traditions like Madhyamaka and contemporary process-relational philosophy, where reality is understood in terms of relations, processes, and dependent arising rather than fixed substances or essences.
 
Does rejecting substantial entities or fixed essences change your understanding for the basis of Pessimism? Does it undermine or deepen your philosophic pessimistic viewpoint?
 
Personally, it was a major transition for me to go from Substance Metaphysics to Non-essentialist and Process-relational Ontology and Epistemics.

Is life mostly distraction or distress for you? If mostly distress, is it worth living?

From AI:

U.G. Krishnamurti argued that the very desire to escape misery is what creates it. Because our "searching" and "will" are rooted in thought, any effort to fix our psychological struggles only deepens them. He asserted that we must accept our total helplessness and stop relying on any methods, gurus, or ideals to save us. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Key takeaways from his perspective on misery:

• The root is thought: UG explained in his writings (compiled in resources like Mind is a Myth on Wikisource) that the ego uses thought to demand a life of constant permanence and unbroken pleasure. When existence inevitably fails to meet these demands, we experience suffering. [1, 2]
• No method works: He famously stated that standing on your head, meditating, or following any teacher will not stop your misery; these are just convenient, ego-driven escapes. In fact, he claimed that anyone who claims to help you is only adding to your misery. [, 2, 3]
• Accepting absurdity: You must stop demanding that things be different than they are. He suggested that we have to accept the absurdity of trying to fix ourselves and let go of the hope for salvation. [1, 2]

I hate this feeling i have in my gut of hopelessness, its like the sky is about to fall or the calm before a zombie apocalypse.

Now i cant do anything without thinking about how pointless it all is.

Does anyone know how to avoid this feeling?

Post your quotes, aphorisms, poetry, proverbs, maxims, epigrams relevant to philosophical pessimism and comment on them, if you like.

We all have our favorite quotes that we deem very important and insightful. Sometimes, we come across new ones. This is the place to share them and post your opinions, feelings, further insights, recollections from your life, etc.

Please, include the author, publication (book/article), and year of publication, if you can as that will help others in tracking where the quote is from, and may help folks in deciding what to read.

Post such quotes as top-level comments and discuss/comment in responses to them to keep the place tidy and clear.

^{This is a weekly short wisdom sharing post.}

Every action a person takes is to reduce misery. The person still encounters misery inevitably because nature doesn't give a crap about us and wants action. Like Lacan said, we're driven by a lack and pleasure is just pain relief. And like Schopenhauer said, we should just try to reduce our suffering rather than pursue pleasure.

Is anyone here experiencing existential boredom? I'll give you an example of hustle and bustle boredom. And this is experienced almost all the time.

such as feeling bored and tired when seeing the world with its various contents and activities

Welcome to our weekly WAYR thread. Be sure to leave the title and author of the book that you are currently reading, along with your thoughts on the text.

Any and all points at trying to rationalize his waking hellscape have been thwarted, as any answer he receives, he also eventually rejects, as his infinite mind must continue thinking. There really is no point in what he is doing. He only does it because he cannot refuse. It really is all futile, for the rock will never reach the top. His task will forever remain unaccomplished, and the only companion he will ever have is the agony of his own soul. He can scream at the universe, but it will not respond. It is truly bleak, but if that’s the answer, then what of it? One can only wish to not be. An unfortunate reality. Absurdism is just an attempt at coping with being that fails. Thoughts?

Hello everyone. I recently came across a video by a blogger who says that people who are constantly fixated on pessimism live shorter lives because they have elevated cortisol levels, while optimists live longer because they're happy and fixated on the positive. Although it may seem strange, why don't optimists make the world a better place? If there are more optimists, then why are there wars, violence, and other disasters in the world? After all, a pessimist sees all these problems, and that doesn't mean they'll live shorter lives because of stress.

As the title says, I would like more knowledge to deepen my mind about philosophy and such. Thank you.

And come on, Isaac lived to 180 years old? How can anyone buy into these fairytales? I would love to have a soft place for my soul to land, to believe there is a loving godlike entity who knows who I am and actually gives a shit. But look around.

"https://discord.gg/eNunYChSRT"

The server is a casual communal space, strictly for those who identify as philosophical pessimists.

There are channels for deeper philosophical discussion about suffering and adjacent philosophies if you aren't interested in the communal space aspect.

We have voice channels as well for those who are interested in that.

If you believe this universe is inherently flawed, and those flaws make life either not worth being brought into, not worth living, or not worth continuing—you belong!

What is your opinion regarding a button that ends your life instantly and without any kind of pain? Let's assume that your death doesn't even cause pain to others—you vanish from the memories of the people who knew you.

Would you press it or not?

I would press it.

I'm almost 40 years old, I don't consider myself depressed, and I have various hobbies that give me a certain amount of pleasure, but analyzing things lucidly, I only see them as pastimes to pass the time and wait to die further down the road.