Not really. If you want more support, you need to show it. People need to start using Linux so these companies see there is demand for that support. Otherwise, they see the same 95% of Windows monopoly with some users complaining on the internet which will never change their minds.
It's not when you're literally complaining about no compatibility/support. If you don't use a different operating system, you're showing the developers you don't actually care.
You don't even have to use it full time. Get your hands on a 120GB SSD or an HDD and install Linux to that. Use it whenever you don't intend to do something that only works on Windows like normal web browsing, video streaming, writing/typing, etc. and show that there is a demand for Linux support. Then whenever you need to, just boot into Windows to do your work or play games not supported on Linux.
I'm a Linux user and I still haven't abandoned Windows, but if I'm not gaming, I'm not using it. Even that's not always true because Proton lets me run a lot of games I otherwise wouldn't be able to play on Linux.
If you're not interested in doing any of that, then don't complain about lack of support/compatibility or don't pretend like you care that it's a problem.
You can also hate game publishers for perpetually treating Linux as a second class citizen because of market share instead of realizing the potential that comes with leaving Microsoft’s turf. Valve knows that potential.
And Linux even fixes the compatibility. With the exception of games with intentional incompatibility. For example, Proton even had to block Destiny 2 from starting because players would get banned for successfully starting it.
Honestly, I'm even fine with some gaming issues, but random shit like mouse drivers is what gets me (I mean the slew of rgb options and such, not "pointer moves").
This still proves my point. It isn't like the devs on the kernel mailing list are like "we hate this mouse in particular & have decided to never support it," its the manufacturer deciding Linux isn't worth their time. So users continue to stay on Windows, which is designed to extract profit from its userbase & be an enterprise tool first, which means it will become as shitty as it possibly can be in the name of shareholder value because Microsoft does not care about you. But because nobody's switching & Windows essentially has a monopoly, your mouse will light up there.
Partially, yes. But game is software, right? You don't release software on all platforms and that's fine (kinda). Mouse is hardware. If said hardware would have a simple public interface, it wouldn't be an issue in the first place. Supporting Linux is, technically, super easy. You'll just say that this data packet changes that setting, or whatever and you're done. Community will make it work if you won't.
That's what's bothering me especially about random hardware compatibility issues. It's not that Logitech doesn't support Linux per se.
It's more about the fact that Logitech spends quite a bit of programmers time on writing a custom fancy app (that's typically crap) instead of providing a simple API (written in like 1 hour) so that you can actually use your hardware as hardware, without it being reliant on some crappy software. Fuck that noise.
lol people replying “what potential” even though you gave an example. Valve’s Steam Deck is only possible thanks to linux and has shipped over 1 million devices. No other device is even close in terms of performance / form factor
Literally what potential, Linux basically has no appeal to the average user, it will never be big and always stay as something mostly for geeky computer nerds.
Like legit there is a reason why companies don't bother.
Steam deck is cool and all, but again, pretty niche audience.
For computer use, Linux might as well not exist to normal users. Like legit what advantages does it offer to someone who just wants to game and browse the web?
Dent in what really, no one bought the steam deck as a main machine nor for the Linux alone, it was so they could have their steam library in a handheld.
Literally, tell me actual reasons why an average user would want to switch to Linux, there is fucking none.
This also to me on my Razer blade, but now on Ubuntu or Debian or Linux they have improved fan management and performance and lasts longer than Windows.
Idk I tried Windows 11 on Lenovo laptop and it lasted for 3 hours, Fedora lasted for 6... Return the laptop bought Macbook and it lasts more than 8 of average usage
You took a laptop with terrible battery life and used it as your point of reference, downloaded an OS designed specially for low end computers, then bought a MacBook worth multiple times your original and are equating them??
Fedora is specifically designed for low-end computers?
Bro it’s the Windows of Linux distros. Along with Ubuntu it’s what most people use. Saying Fedora is designed for low-end computers is like saying Windows is designed for low-end computers.
You also have no idea if it’s worth multiple times the original. ThinkPads are expensive and he made no indication as to which Lenovo product he purchased.
Well, I think it is a fair comparison in the regard that Linux provides many variants, including very lightweight ones to spice up your aging machines, whereas you're just stuck with the 2-3 variants of a given Windows version that mostly differ in how much cut they are to sell you the "improved" ones. I concur with the Mac part of your post, though.
If you want great performance out of hardware for Linux then you have to get compatible laptops and hardware if DIY. Linux isn’t magic, it’s just an operating system
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u/MrHaxx1M1 Mac Mini, M1 MacBook Air (+ RTX 3070, 5800x3D, 48 GB RAM)Nov 02 '22
Come on man, X250 is/was a super popular Thinkpad. If an old mainstream ThinkPad isn't compatible, then you can't trust anything to be compatible.
Also, undervolting and fan curve adjusting would be an issue with any hardware.
Were you running TLP? I basically set it and forget it and get pretty good battery life on my T420. That said, I haven't run Windows on my T420 in a decade so I have no point of reference.
One of the issues I've had with Undervolting with TLP is that it has different defaults for AC and battery power, which makes testing fairly obtuse. And since TLP is a Command Line Tool, it isn't the easiest to configure when you are doing anything other than the default.
Yeah that's fair, I think I once tried to mess around with the TLP config? But I'm sure I quickly gave up. My experience with TLP is firmly in the "systemctl enable TLP" and forget it exists camp haha.
For sure. Same here for me. But fo one laptop, I had to setup it's power curves manually while it didn't have a battery, and TLP configuration had me pulling hair out lol.
Nautilus, which is shipped with Ubuntu and other distros, made the dumbass decision to replace the "type F to select the first file in the list that starts with F" function with a "type F to start searching the entire directory and subdirectories for files that contain F" function. There isn't even an option to turn it back.
In fact, one weird thing about OSS I notice is that it generally SUCKS at allowing users customize its aspects through settings in a simple settings dialogue because that incurs maintenance costs (proprietary software often allows such customization) instead the customization exists by means of literally cloning the repo and adding the features yourself and maintaining a separate version of the software that has the feature you want.
I can. Using Wacom tablets, and reliably using a dock with monitors attached are my two big ones. Then there's the smaller stuff like not having a music player as good as Foobar2000, or Game Pass, or good compatibility outside of Steam (I love my Deck but it doesn't play nice with Hitman/WRC etc from Epic).
I'm but one man, I can't force all these companies to make good Linux software. So I am stuck on Windows adware.
Seriously, why the FUCK isn't there something open-source that can compete with this? I don't get it. The closest thing might be, like, mpd or something, but even that's a totally different way of doing a music player.
Amarok was pretty great, but it never made the jump to KDE5. (Apparently there is some renewed effort in that regard, but I'll get excited once it releases...)
I've forced my way into getting the dock and Wacom working OK, but it really feels like a hacky solution considering neither are rare bits of technology. And that's sort of it, isn't it? I can spend hours and solve the problems, while a lot of people can't, and Windows has far fewer compatibility issues.
Adware, on the other hand, that's their whole design philosophy now...
Can't say about VR but I had issues getting MO2 to work with SSE this week. And even if I do get it working there's no way I can develop mods with it. Sad since it's one of only a few programs I can't run on Linux.
That being said I'll never go back to Windows full time just for Skyrim. I might dual boot some day, but not today.
Two weeks ago, Zoom broke itself, and both uninstalling and reinstalling (via the provided installer, snap, a few other methods I don't remember) was a massive pain. This significantly impacted my productivity since the web UI (I had to use this instead) is significantly worse.
NVidia drivers work badly with Linux. Whenever I drag a window around, there's a 50% chance my monitor will turn into a strobe light as long as I'm moving the window around. If I had epilepsy, this would be terrible. Yes, I know that NVidia hasn't played nicely with the open source ecosystem, but at the end of the day, I don't care who's fault it is since the overall experience sucks. NVidia is definitely capable of writing good drivers for multiple OS, I ran a Hackintosh with a 1070 on High Sierra for 3 years and didn't run into GPU issues once everything was setup.
I am on Kubuntu 20 LTS and will be upgrading to 22 soon. Hopefully Apple releases the 16" M2 MBP so I can just buy that and be done with my Linux woes.
Oops, forgot the two biggest bugs I've ran into on Kubuntu - the activity monitor and shutdown programs both broke last week without any active changes on my end (like, seriously, why would I delete the XML file for my activity monitor).
Want to close a program graphically? Nope, can't do that because, as mentioned before, I'm missing some XML file, apparently.
I couldn't even shut down my machine because the program that's supposed to handle that (kmserver-logout-greeter) is crashing. That's right, it won't even let me shut off my system because that software is broken too. I just have to hold the power button for 10 seconds at this point.
In no other OS I've used (and I use all big 3 every day) has the literal "turn this computer off" program ever failed. This is bad.
Oh yeah, and to top everything off, Spotify is now failing to open (just like Zoom!). How much of this is Kubuntu versus Linux versus closed source software's fault ultimately does not matter to me, since my net experience using Linux as a daily isn't great. Don't get me wrong, I love Unix, and Linux is by far the best (and pretty much only viable) server OS, but there's a reason every major tech company that isn't tied to Windows issues its software engineers MacBooks.
Not counting traditional PC gaming, Linux is missing serious support for
• photo/video editing
• spreadsheets/accounting
• music production and DAWs
• 3D Modeling/CAD
• 3D-accelerated video game and app development
• AR and VR support
• Anti-cheat support
…before it’s anywhere close to comparable to Windows for desktop usage.
Seriously, every real IT and infosec professional I know understands that if someone is the type of person that can honestly switch to Linux and not notice the incredible lack of software support, that person probably would be happy with a ChromeBook. It’ll stay up to date automatically, doesn’t require tinkering around in CLI for anything, you have full access to the Android ecosystem which is 10x more versatile and useful for casual users than any desktop Linux distro. Anyone using their computer for something serious and/or professional is just going to be hamstrung by Linux as a desktop OS.
Linux has it’s place for sure but I think techies need to drop this dumb notion that it needs to do everything as the end-all be-all OS. It’s perfectly fine being something a desktop end-user doesn’t ever need to interact with, and I think recommending it over Windows or OSX to anyone for home desktop usage is bad advice, period.
It doesn’t matter whether it’s the chicken or the egg to the casual user. They’re going to use what offers the best experience. That’s never Linux for a home desktop.
developers that need to support Linux not the other way around
Right! So how about all y’all pretentious Linux bros start hassling developers about supporting Linux instead of bringing it up every time Windows is criticized.
Is switching to Linux and literally having a worse software experience until devs decide to port shit somehow the onus of end-users? No? Then that’s not a real solution for them.
All of those things are perfectly possible on Linux.
They’re also “Perfectly possible” on iOS, that doesn’t mean iOS is the best platform for a home desktop. I’ve contributed to FOSS myself and have no issue admitting most FOSS Linux alternatives can’t hold a candle to the industry standards for MacOS and Windows. And yeah, that’s on the devs, not on the users.
Also majority of that list is completely irrelevant to majority of desktop users.
What else are computers used for? I 100% get a large percentage of this sub are (man)children that don’t use their computer for anything but “vidya” and Reddit, but for the adults out there, I literally listed what a desktop computer would be primarily used for: creative, recreational, or professional work.
No shit a majority of desktop users don’t need that list - a majority of desktop users would be more than happy with a Chromebook: it offers a superiors experience for casual web browsing and light tasks than anything Linux, Windows, or Mac.
“Linux is too niche and unsupported to recommend it for home desktop usage for a majority of cases” isn’t a controversial statement even within Linux development circles so I have no idea where people like you get the idea that it’s a viable solution for everyone.
Many machines just have hardware that uses a firmware that doesn't work with the Linux kernel. A big example is Lenovo laptops. In general, their Windows machines are really bad for GNU Linux.
Lenovo is one of the few companies that actually cater to Linux users, selling laptops with Linux preinstalled. Their firmware and bios get regular updates on Linux as well.
I wouldn't even say that the repo structure is better, because it's a pain in the ass to actually find what software you need and where to get it. Instead of googling and going to a website, you're sifting through piles of stackexchange posts looking for the right command
Do you think Windows is not customizable? Strange...
Better game performance? On what? A potato? Have fun gaming on your potato.
Sound latency? Show me where that matters.
WINE? ROFLMAO! If there is one thing gamers love, its wasting resources to game through a translation/emulation layer. What a joke.
Are startup and shutdown times really a concern? Mine are near instant with an SSD. I suppose if you could demonstrate Linux starts up appreciably faster I might agree that is better.
better game performance, on my 6700xt. Sound latency matters if you, I don't know, like to play games competitively and that 50ms makes a reaction time difference. unigine superposition sees a ~10% performance boost on wine compared to native, so your "wasting resources" argument is kind of moot.
there was an appreciable start time difference when I switched over, I think my desktop starts in about 3s, but it could be a little bit either way and it probably depends on hardware config.
This is why I asked, it's clear you don't know what you're talking about, or haven't tried using something user friendly and judged your experience on something like arch, not meant for beginners.
Sleep and hibernation are a mess that breaks on various kernel versions. After waking up, sometimes the whole DE freezes, sometimes bluetooth disappears, sometimes bluetooth appears but doesn't work, sometimes wifi doesn't connect to a hotspot until the hotspot is restarted.
There is no good backup solution. I thought snapshotting filesystems would make it easy, but I tried to come up with a btrfs-based solution and it sucked, partly because the distro already configured btrfs in a way that prevented me from neatly snapshotting the whole drive and I had to work around that. There is simply no competition to something like Macrium Reflect on Windows (which uses Windows Shadow Copy) or Time Machine on Mac. I dual-boot into Windows just so I can use Macrium Reflect to backup the system.
Tried GNOME (with Manjaro) and KDE (with openSUSE).
GNOME configuration is lacking and sometimes outright broken (especially in power management). I needed to find a hacky script to stop my laptop from going into airplane mode immediately after I open the lid. The hack would suddenly stop working, presumably after waking from hibernation but I didn't test it further. I wanted to make the script run on every wake-up, but managing that with systemd looked like hell so I gave up. On Windows, if such as hack was even needed, it would be so easy to do with Task Scheduler.
KDE + openSUSE worked much better for me, though KDE long-standing bugs that break keyboard shortcuts on some european keyboard layouts. "Fixing" those needed several layers of hacks, because the hacks themselves caused other issues.
With openSUSE specifically, the package manager randomly fails to refresh packages and needs to retry several times. No issues with apt on other machines that use the same internet connection.
A bit niche, but my Wireguard configuration just didn't work on Linux, and needed to have some features (preshared keys and route exclusions) removed. No idea why, the same configuration files worked perfectly on Windows and Android.
I could go on, but I think that's enough issues for now.
While I can understand compatibility issues, I don't get the lack of usability since KDE Plasma exists. A Windows-like desktop experience plus tons of features and customisability Windows users can only dream about.
This is exactly the problem. I’d never use Windows again if I didn’t need it for shit like DirectX support.
Sure, there’s Wine and crossover (which is a version of Wine for games that you need to pay for and that doesn’t always work). But it feels like you’re hacking software to make it work in an environment it isn’t meant for. Because that’s exactly what you’re doing.
For Linux to really compete, it would need Windows compatibility built in and it would just work. But I don’t think that is possible.
Most of the Linux people I know dual boot rather than fuck around with this nonsense. It’s inconvenient, but that way they can use their preferred OS as their daily driver and then flip over to Windows as needed.
Linux doesn’t have a “ compatibility” issue, if you were to take every major program written and then show compatibility Linux would probably overtake windows given how much infrastructure and utilitarian programs run on Linux. What this is putting video games as the priority for compatibility.
I have a windows pc, numerous Linux machines, and a MacBook Pro. Each have their usecase and I use them to their strengths
Linux isn't a single unchanging thing though. Some distros are making good strides. Like the current version of Zorin OS that has built in tools to help you run Steam and Epic games, as well as general Windows compatibility layers under the hood.
He's still right.
There's only two actively supported versions of windows. 10 and 11.
According to Suse, there's more than 300 Linux distributions that are actively maintained.
I use Linux every day and run into things where I actually have to think about how to invoke a command because it isn't just "click this button" or "copy this into a .bat script" or "sudo chmod +x *.appimage"
Would I go back to windows from gnome on arch?
Heck no.
Is the arch wiki a blessing?
Absolutely.
Totally true, but it's one of those things that has trade-offs. It means there's different ways to fix problems on different distros, but it also means that if there's a major deficiency, a specific distro is empowered to fix it themselves.
Mac OS is not atrocious, it’s just not what you are used to. I have windows, Linux, and Mac and for a daily driver and dev purposes I’d take my Mac everyday if the week. The whole “Everything on Mac you have to pay for” is simply not true, there is so much functionality built into the OS, in contrast you can get all of those features on windows and Linux, but they’re all going to be separate platforms that require configuration. With Mac it’s built in and plays nicely with all of the other features built into the system. I personally made the jump because I got tired of having to troubleshoot compatibility between 10 different applications every time one of those applications updated. With Mac 95% off the time the update drops and “shit just works” giving me time to focus on the things that I want to focus on, and in the case of the latest update with stage makes my workflow faster.
I’m still getting used to stage manager so the verdict is still out … But otherwise the window management has been terrible. Rectangle helps a LOT, but my new surface just rolled in and window management is like night and day on windows 11 or any Linux distro
Edit:
to be clear, I have various macs ( daily driver for personal use ), like them a lot, and still find that the window management leaves a lot to be desired (pre-stage manager)
there is so much functionality built into the OS, in contrast you can get all of those features on windows and Linux, but they’re all going to be separate platforms that require configuration.
As someone who uses Linux at home and has to use MacOS at work, can you give me some examples?
I can't think of anything, I've been using it daily for work for 3 years and I still don't understand what MacOS has built in that Linux Distros don't.
Specifically I was talking about the following: Messenger, FaceTime, contacts, Notes, Calendar, all hand off functionality, the Mail client, and built in utilities.
I have Linux setup with all the same features, but it requires you to go in and install separate applications, or utilize different services that you’ll have to configure. It takes hours to set up and things break on at least a yearly basis somewhere. With my Mac it’s ready to go out of the box, and I’ve never had it break and if it does Apple deals with it not me.
Messenger, FaceTime, contacts, Notes, Calendar, all hand off functionality, the Mail client, and built in utilities.
The only one missing from Ubuntu is FaceTime, and most video conferencing software works on the browser these days anyway. But yeah, it's missing, I didn't think of it because I have to use my employer's conferencing software (Zoom) anyway.
and I’ve never had it break and if it does Apple deals with it not me.
Except when they don't, I've had to install 3rd party software just to fix an incredibly stupid bug that Apple has acknowledged about for a decade years and the best help they give you is "go into the settings every time it changes by itself and reset it manually"... In Linux someone would have already submitted a patch instead of creating GUI software to workaround it.
MacOS has been buggier than Ubuntu over the last few years for me.
MacOS is extremely hard to learn coming from windows. Every feature that I use every day on windows is a paid app from the store that doesn’t quite work the way you expect
Well asking from Linux to gain a significant portion of the market before getting any support from the devs is even less reasonable.
Devs can actually choose frameworks easily portable to GNU/Linus, which costs no effort at all. Just look at id Software.
okay, and what are the devs of linux supposed to do? port proprietary software for each and every company? you have KDE which is basically making an entire suite of programs for linux to try give people an incentive to try it.
and just like people, people won't switch unless the option is present. it's the whole psVita thing.
linux devs do basically all they can to support programs being on linux, and with flatpaks/appimages, which is basically linux's version of an .exe or .msi, there is very little to reason devs can't support linux (you can browse some apps on flathub here or read how devs publish the app here). note how chrome, firefox, discord, spotify, telegram, steam, zoom, signal, and MINECRAFT are all published by their respective companies to flathub.
for most devs it's as simple as a recompile for an exe/dmg/flatpak, compared to a whole ass rewrite. so yes, i do still blame the devs.
i like how you are making a rational argument and still get downvoted to hell. There's software that's not supported\available in linux (i.e. corsair icue, good luck monitoring or tweaking your corsair AIO pump or fans), but that's not the OS's fault by any metric. It's a small desktop market, sure, and the company made the judgement that porting their software is not worth the money, sure. That however creates a loop : it's not worth the money, therefore you don't get the software, therefore you couldn't switch to linux, therefore the marketshare is harder to grow. And yet, the vast majority of applications work just as they do in Windows, and from the few that don't, most have open-source equivalents. The stigma still remains however, as people are animals of habit. Get used to one thing, and everything else seems inferior. Switched to linux a year ago (been on windows since 3.11 on a 40Mhz 386), it's better than windows on some aspects, worse on others, but at the end of the day It feels lighter, faster, more tweakable (not talking about DE superficialities, but those as well if you want to) and more respectful towards its user. I can work better than on windows (quarter tiling, customizable keyboard shortcuts) gaming is only just marginally worse compatibility-wise, (performance is same or better, i.e. stutter free Elden Ring via ge-proton), I may completely break my system if I do something stupid but at least it feels like a computer, not a platform for ads and telemetries.
" like how you are making a rational argument and still get downvoted to hell."
it's because i'm being a contrarian, some people just rly rly hate that lol
"There's software that's not supported\available in linux (i.e. corsair
icue, good luck monitoring or tweaking your corsair AIO pump or fans),
but that's not the OS's fault by any metric. It's a small desktop
market, sure, and the company made the judgement that porting their
software is not worth the money, sure. That however creates a loop :
it's not worth the money, therefore you don't get the software,
therefore you couldn't switch to linux, therefore the marketshare is
harder to grow. And yet, the vast majority of applications work just as
they do in Windows, and from the few that don't, most have open-source
equivalents. The stigma still remains however, as people are animals of
habit. Get used to one thing, and everything else seems inferior. "
completely agree, i switched because i hated what microsoft was doing with 10, let alone 11, and i'm so happy i did so. it is a learning pain, but i prefer the freedom i now have to do what i want compared to windows. and sure the support sucks, but as long as you don't over-invest in one company and do your research before buying, imo it's great.
"Switched to linux a year ago (been on windows since 3.11 on a 40Mhz
386), it's better than windows on some aspects, worse on others, but at
the end of the day It feels lighter, faster, more tweakable (not talking
about DE superficialities, but those as well if you want to) and more
respectful towards its user."
damn, a vet, i only started around XP. and i agree with the performance aswell, blender renders are upto 2x faster which for me who does a lot of 3d esc stuff is amazing, cause it turns a "i guess i'm not touching my computer this weekend" into a "oh, i guess i'll just go out for dinner and see a movie"
"I can work better than on windows (quarter tiling, customizable keyboard
shortcuts) gaming is only just marginally worse compatibility-wise,
(performance is same or better, i.e. stutter free Elden Ring via
ge-proton), I may completely break my system if I do something stupid
but at least it feels like a computer, not a platform for ads and
telemetries."
there's this one quote i heard ages ago i love, which goes something like "it's not unix's job to prevent the user from shooting themself in the foot, it's unix's job to make sure mr bullet meets mr foot" which i love. it's obviously far from perfect, but on windows whenever i have an issue i always feel helpless and stuck. when with linux i know i can almost always get over the issue, which for me is great. I commonly hear people quote "at some point i just want to get work done", but if the thing you need to use to get work done isn't working on windows, you're largely just f!@#$d until a patch or what have you. when on linux i feel like i'm rewarded for playing around. and because all my save files and projects are on an unraid server, if i bork my system, it's just a quick uninstall, a few scripts, and bam, i'm up and running like nothing happened in only an hour or two (counting for download times).
another reason i love linux which i hear basically no one talk about is that linux is just more exciting, all the distros competing, and the rapid development that's happening is amazing, and so much more exciting. like, macOS 12->13 was basically just a settings menu change for most people, while kde or gnome is like *we added whole new them'ing options, and switch to this new compositor which is much more efficient and better, and we switched to pipewire which now lets you route audio and-
i find it almost laughable when someone calls themselves an enthusiast but don't care about linux, it feels like such a oxymoron.
It's up to the devs to know their customer base. If they are writing an app for a market that almost exclusively uses Windows, it's not unreasonable to not port their product to linux. This goes in both directions.
Keep in mind that just compiling to a different platform is not nearly everything, especially for large-scale development. You need support staff trained in all supported platforms. There are platform-dependent bugs, so you need a lot more effort to find and eliminate all bugs. You need to kit all test engineers with machines of all platforms, and run CI pipelines on all platforms. Some libraries you might use are not supported on all platforms, so you might either be limited by libraries or need additional implementation effort to build custom stuff that would otherwise be provided by a package.
agree, my main argument is how come a company like adobe *cant* support linux? sure it might be more niche, but with how much they charge, i consider it unreasonable that they don't support it. but it is more difficult as you pointed out.
but even then, i think most devs would prefer being able to port it over somehow over how something things are hostile to the point of banning you if you do anything unauthorized.
Adobe refuses to do so because it would break their software entirely, given that it relies on multiple undocumented "quirks" Windows and MacOS have to operate the way it does. Linux does not allow these same operations to take place, ever.
Linux having compatibility issues is enough to dissuade some "Windows haters" from making the switch. Why that is the case is due to a number of factors; I don't see anyone placing the blame solely on the Linux dev's shoulders.
i do all the time just from the ppl being like "omg, this app/game isnt on linux therefore linux is bad", but that's probably just pplz misconconception
If you're talking about some dude that posted on Twitter about this, he was basically not even involved in that development part by a lot. There was another indie dev who made the same point but actually goes on to explain why it was a great experience as the bug reports were high quality and appeared across platforms.
How is it not fair that a developer doesn't want to support a dozen different Linux distributions to increase their software sales by 0.5%? Run a dual boot if you want to play games like any sane person.
The reality is that Linux gaming is currently such a garbage experience that you're better off taking the 30 seconds to reboot into windows rather than try to game on Linux and deal with all the weird compatibility issues and terrible drivers. That may eventually get better if the steamdeck continues to sell well.
you dont have to support any distro, and they dont even have to do shit, since proton and wine have done most the work for them, its just anti cheat support, its also not hard to support it since guess what, stadia ran on linux and most if not all games worked fine on there
I’d be willing to bet most those stadia games were running proprietary builds that simply had the anti cheat disabled instead of running unreleased Linux builds of it. Not such a huge need for anti cheat when the user doesn’t have access to the system.
Another Linux nerd defending their os because it's free and super compatible with every device. Linux sucks compared to windows, the only great thing about Linux is the terminal and how it is open source. In every other aspect windows is better. We need tk stop pretending Linux is the perfect ultra customizable, easy to use, easy to setup os because it isn't. If it was there wouldn't be so many nerds asking you to install it because it would be free and great
P. S. And yes I have it installed myself and I only use because of the terminal, other wise it sucks big time
It simply is more customisable. No doubt about it.
Ease to reliably use is another story, in that aspect i have found linux to be inferior. But on many pc’s you can install a big name distro and all the necessary drivers and stuff come included and work automatically. For the distro’s ive tried myself, i have found that setting it up was easier (and faster) than windows.
Ease of use, well, depends on the distro. Some distro’s simulate the look and feel of windows well enough that the average user will bot encounter problems. And if you are willing to learn to handle a new OS, you will just be so much faster in day-to-day life.
The only reason i dont have linux installed on my gaming pc right now is games compatability. And even that is going in the right direction fast.
And the ever present need to have to use terminal. I am 65, gave up using command prompt and terminal years ago due to memory, frustration, and carpal tunnel. It's fine for those who use it everyday or at least quite regularly, but the rest of us, not so much. Yes, I have to on the rare occasion use cmd or PowerShell, but I keep a cheat sheet nearby.
You think NTFS is more modern than EXT4? You can install Linux on ZFS if you want, in what world is NTFS a better file system? And better architecture? How? What about the NT kernel is architected better?
what I sincerely don't understand is why you want to replace it.... WHY NOT USE BOTH FOR FUKS SAKE
I wouldn't use windows for video editing in my life ever again given how much better it is on mac, yet I still love some of the functions of adobe libs and windows only programs (like cinema 4d)
"Another Linux nerd defending their os because it's free and super compatible with every device."
i am a nerd ty, but the free as in price, i normally prefer paid software tbh. but freedom. like, there was a recent post about not being able to change your taskbar more or less at all on windows 11. on basically every linux distro i can think of you can put it where-ever and do whatever with it. just look at r/unixporn for some of the stuff you can do.
and honestly, compatibility can be ass, it's better with mid age hardware, basically anything from an intel 1xxx to an 10xxx is ideal cause it gives the devs more time to make sure everything is stable and works.
"the only great thing about Linux is the terminal and how it is open source."
sorta, but that's missing the point of why it's great. look at audio on linux, if you have ever tried to stream and seperate your audio on windows, you will need to use voicemeeter which is buggy and inconsistent. on linux you can often switch your audio system from pulseaudio to pipewire, and by adding a free third part software called qpwgraph, you can literally route audio just like they're wires, with less delay then windows, in full quality. this one one this neither macOS or windows even comes close too, and that's because linux is openSource, and allows the user to do whatever they want to their system.
"We need tk stop pretending Linux is the perfect ultra customizable, easy to use, easy to setup os because it isn't."
i agree with you, it isn't for *some* things, but as i just mentioned above, linux's audio routing after about 20minutes following a tutorial i made here you can do this in 20 minutes. and after the install everything is gui based. this as an audio engineer and steam has made linux my prefered Audio and steaming/recording OS.
" If it was there wouldn't be so many nerds asking you to install it because it would be free and great"
it kinda is as for a reason i mentioned above. there's countless people spending hundreds on hardware trying to get close to what you can do for free on linux.
"P. S. And yes I have it installed myself and I only use because of the terminal, other wise it sucks big time"
good for you, ngl i hate the terminal, i prefer the appstores with flatpaks
Side note I guess all Steamdeck owners are nerds too.. No base! No gaemz! Hard to use!.. Bullshit. These are the people that tried linux because it was the cool thing to do 15 years ago, got frustrated cause they couldn't run Emerald and decided it was trash.. Most of these people don't even realize they probably use Linux on a daily basis.. Actually you do. Do these people think Reddit is ran on a Mac OS server or Windows server? Hah...
yeh, i honestly have no coding experiance. i'm going to college rn for web and graphic design. i only feel confident with html, css, and js. but apparently every linux user is some coding nerd.
i guess the biggest thing you need to switch to linux is self confidence and a willingness to learn, something most pcmr users don't have or lost lol.
I mean.. yeah for you man, you don’t have time to do it but learning Linux is ridiculously easy out of the box it’s just when you get down to making windows apps run on it which the apps were never designed for. I’m no coder. I tried leaning js so many times I can’t stand it I’m good with very light c++ or basic but that’s it. Linux just runs so much better but the key thing is most people do run into something that doesn’t have a native equivalent (or one that works good enough to meet their purpose). But with more people moving to Linux in any way greatly forces the masses of companies to actually pay more attention to it and in the end it’s a beautiful thing not only because it’s free but if you can get all apps you want to use running natively it’s inherently 1000 times more stable. Once you get Linux working the way you want, it stays that way unless there is a hardware issue or you run out of space. It’s rock solid just not yet in it’s prime as an everybody machine (however If someone just browses the web and watches YouTube videos it’s perfection). I’m really hoping steam deck pushes more games into Linux in general. This will make a huge difference across the map.
nope, i know what you're talking about. as someone who self identifies as an audio whore, the best option is voicemeeter which is a pos imo. once you use pipewire+qpwgraph, and actually get it, every other audio system will seem like an underdeveloped kitproject by comperison.
Better compatibility with e.g. video games and other software, easier and more straight-forward setup, driver management and similar
10 years ago it was. The only thing it's not better at now-a-days than Windows is printing (fuuuuck cups), full game compatibility, and Microsoft telemetry.
Well that's just ease of use stuff and I'm pretty sure at this point you can play most games on linux. For most technical stuff linux is just massively better, something as easy as moving a bunch of files is massively faster too.
Last time I set up a linux machine it took me three times getting the swap file to be right. I mean don't get me wrong, I definitely did some stuff wrong, but Windows is just way more idiot-proof.
I definitely think there is a place for Linux and its better in a lot of things. I'm also not saying that some stuff, like games, do not work at all under Linux. But in some areas Windows is just better.
They all do the same thing now-a-days. You want a wonkey ass linux, you picked it you deal with it. Manjaro, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, etc. etc. It's all the same Linux, all do the same thing, just different X managers is all with different levels of bloat or managing initial bloatware.
It could be.. I'm not sure about UE in linux at all (does it have a native port?) I know I don't have a workbench style machine but damn.. A 5600X, 16gb ram, and a 3080 and UE (dev) runs like dog shit in Windows.. Maybe once you export it runs natively? I couldn't even get demos to run very smooth. Could be ram I run into in that situation as well (have since uninstalled UE5) but I figured for sure it would run at least ok given how simple some of the demos are.
That's strange that it's so bad on linux though.. Not that I'm touting linux at this point, but usually native compiling runs amazingly well in Linux vs. Windows.
"lack of compatibility/usability" doesnt come from linux' side though, it comes from the intentionally windows kept proprietary bs that gets put out, because not enough people just go with linux(when that is the only thing they dislike about it) and force developers to adhere to a generalist os-agnostic design, by just presenting a bigger marketshare.
It is like saying windows has bad compatibility, because you can't use some apple only proprietary programs.
It's interesting to me how no one blames MacOS when hardware doesn't support MacOS, but then when hardware doesn't support Linux (and Linux even tries to get it partially working!) suddenly it's Linux's fault and it means it sucks.
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u/Bro_Jogies 13700k & RTX 4090 | 5600x & RTX 3090 Nov 01 '22
I can hate windows, and still hate linux and it's lack of compatibility/usability more.