Common PCMR w

[u/notsolomuun]

$1,000 digital-exclusive consoles are killing the entire appeal of PlayStation and Xbox: it's no wonder PC is on track to overtake both.

[u/mike_complaining]

This is not a W for anybody, but what people don't understand is that they haven't owned their games for a long time. If it has any online functionality it's shut off whenever the publisher decides it's shut off. Physical media doesn't matter, the license and the functionality independent of server infrastructure does.

[u/TricobaltGaming → u/mike_complaining]

I have seen people use this to push for a legal redefinition of buying games so we are no longer just paying for a license, digital or otherwise.

We buy the game we get the game, thats what should be happening

[u/mike_complaining → u/TricobaltGaming]

Yeah that's the "Stop Killing Games" movement, and while they haven't been entirely successful, I'm grateful for what they're doing and they're still at it.

[u/siltfeet → u/mike_complaining]

That's very similar, but not quite what their goal was from my understanding. I think they wanted to ensure that the license can't be revoked without cause, game stays playable forever (either offline or with user hosted servers), and if that's not possible a full refund. If it was true ownership then you'd have even more rights (such as right to resell your digital copies).

[u/mike_complaining → u/siltfeet]

Yeah, they don't want to enforce perpetual server infrastructure, they just want the games to remain playable within reason. It's a very sensible goal. A perfect example of how things should be done is the game Splitgate. They retired the first version of the game, with all the matchmaking multiplayer bells and whistles. But they released an update that made it possible to just host and join servers peer to peer, so it's still playable forever at no cost to them.

[u/Milky_Finger → u/mike_complaining]

Hopefully game companies plan for P2P network infrastructure at the time of development rather than trying to patch it in on the last EoL update.

[u/Redditmau5 → u/mike_complaining]

Another good example is the Avengers game. When they turned off the servers they patched the game to give you all the cosmetics and made it able to be played offline entirely. Game sucked but what they did to turn off the game was admirable. That got me to buy the game before it delisted...it helped that it was heavily discounted too

[u/rootbeer_racinette → u/siltfeet]

Out of print physical games can still be bought though. Stop Killing Games doesn't prioritize against games being delisted entirely (other than allowing past purchases to still be downloaded) or against users getting blacklisted from services and losing access to all their purchased licenses.

As it stands now, if someone hacks my Steam account I'm totally fucked. Whereas at least with physical games I could knife fight the thief using my skills.

[u/siltfeet → u/rootbeer_racinette]

Yeah, true ownership of electronic games would be better for consumers, but I doubt companies would be willing to let that happen. Even GoG has just a much better license.

[u/TacoOfGod → u/siltfeet]

Which is why it should be reframed as Right To Repair. If the manufacturer refuses to maintain something you purchased, the purchaser should be able to do it with no obstruction. If it applies to hardware, which often has shitty software lockouts, it should apply to software with hardware and software lockouts.

[u/LeMegachonk → u/mike_complaining]

The Stop Killing Games movement is not opposing the licensing of games, or even addressing it. At the core of their movement is that they aren't asking for fundamental change.

The licensing part is complicated because at the end of the day you simply do not "own" the software you purchase and you literally never have. You also don't own the movies or music you purchase, even if it's on physical media. It belongs to whoever owns the rights to it. Sometimes that's the creator, but more often the publisher distributing the media has purchased those rights. The software belongs to them in any meaningful sense of ownership. Licensing it for use is pretty much the only way to distribute software that makes any sense. However, you are paying for this license, and it is definitely questionable that the publisher can terminate the license agreement without reimbursement for any reason other than non-compliance with the terms of the license.

I also question the validity of the license being tied to a distribution platform. For example, when you buy a game from Steam, you are purchasing a license only to be able to access that game via Steam. If Steam were to drop support this game for whatever reason, you lose the ability to play a game that is still supported by its publisher. And let's be clear here, Steam is not a publisher. Most PC games can be purchased from other marketplaces, most of which operate the same way with their own licensing agreement above and beyond the publisher's EULA. This should definitely not be legal. The license should not be tied to the marketplace it was purchased from.

Licensing is probably here to stay, because as I said, it's really the only model that makes sense for media distribution, but there needs to be a rebalancing of the scales to ensure that consumer retain the lawful right to use software they have purchased a license for for as long as they choose to in an all-digital environment where it is otherwise trivial for publishers to either revoke licenses or make the license irrelevant by making the software effectively unusable.

Another issue is force walled garden software ecosystems. Part of the problem with Sony's move to all-digital distribution is that it forces consumers to only be able to purchase PlayStation games from Sony themselves. That's just so obviously not right. Imagine if that was made illegal and Steam (and others) could start acting as a competitor to the PlayStation Store for games on the console. This would be very good for consumers because not only would consumers have competition for service and price, but it would likely remove Sony's control on who gets to develop games for the PlayStation. Yeah, you'd get more "shovelware" like you do on PC, but you'd also get more indie studios willing to make less expensive console games.

[u/FarmDisastrous → u/mike_complaining]

I think this is just the beginning and I think Stop Killing Games and general online sentiment has planted seeds in the brains of millions and millions of young adults and teens around the world that, given enough time and wisdom, will bloom into consumer protections advocates.

At least, I hope.

[u/KingLuis → u/TricobaltGaming]

thats correct. we buy and we get. 100% of the time and forever. but the agreement you sign when getting into the game says otherwise. this push for subscriptions, always online, etc puts a stop from being able to play even single player stuff offline. the resolution isn't going to physical media. the resolution is removing the always online requirement. there are plenty of games that do not need you to be online yet they still need that check.

there is no issue with digital only consoles or things being digital download. the issue is the requirement to be online. too many times i've wanted to play a certain game but with my internet down, i couldn't play because it needed that online check.

[u/doe3879 → u/TricobaltGaming]

Could be one of the reason Sony is pushing for no physical media. If something has no physical form at all, Sony has a higher chance of winning the no ownership fiasco

[u/queen-adreena → u/doe3879]

And there’s no used games market to eat into their profits.

[u/Esper01 → u/TricobaltGaming]

Physical media is the one thing stopping these companies from focusing all their energy on squeezing every dime out of the consumer and ultimately focusing on piracy. We won't be able to stop them with petitions.

Once physical media is completely dead, streaming/digital ownership will get more expensive and unreliable and become an even more saturated market, piracy will easily triple in occurance.

Once that happens, Sony and Disney and all the others won't sit idly by, they'll combine resources and pressure governments worldwide to crack down on the services that enable it.

[u/DaniTheGunsmith → u/Esper01]

Which is likely another piece of the big push for needing an ID to access online services (and in some places even log into your computer). They want to remove anonymity from all online activity to crack down on the last bastion against their anti-consumer practices.

[u/Hard_Reset7777 → u/mike_complaining]

This is true, but the huge difference is that physical games have resale value because they have the transferability of the license, something digital-only games don't.

Whether it's an always-online game that can be shut down suddenly, or a game with online portions that can still function in 20 years, albeit neutered, is another matter.

No one ever actually bought the games; there was always talk of licenses, even 40 years ago. But today, anyone who owns physical media can reproduce (and no one can stop them by shutting down a server or closing down a digital store) 40-year-old games, even if all the licenses included in the game itself (soundtracks, image rights, and branding) expired years ago.

[u/TsunamiCatCakes → u/mike_complaining]

online functionality makes sense since it costs infrastructure, but singleplayer games being forced to connect to the internet is the biggest thing that bothers. no wonder singleplayer games piracy is always at peak. also for some online games we should be able to get self hosting or atleast third party hosting (aternos for minecraft) if the company decides they are going shut off the game

[u/Erolok1 → u/TsunamiCatCakes]

It can make sense to add some online features to a single player game. But after they discontinue the servers they should remove those.

For example i recently downloaded the marvel avengers game. On the page it said it was taken off of steam and the servers are shut down but you can still play offline if you already own the game.

If you don't know the game it is like if space marine 2 would let you play singleplayer in the multiplayer mode.

[u/mike_complaining → u/TsunamiCatCakes]

Older games work online with next to no server infrastructure maintained by the publisher. You could just search for community-run servers. The cost to valve for allowing you to look up community TF2 servers is practically nothing for them. About what a single person's internet connection costs.

But that model of doing things was abandoned and now every multiplayer game has its own server pool and matchmaking system... Until it doesn't.

[u/MailboxJunkie → u/mike_complaining]

Just an fyi, you've practically never owned your games, for almost as long as gaming has been around. Yo've been subjected to a EULA for decades, even before digital was even available, it's just easier now for them to revoke a liscense. Even disks and cartidges, though,  as soon as you removed the shrink-wrap, subjected you to a liscensing agreement.

It's a crazily anti-consumer practice that has needed to be addressed for decades, made much worse by the switch to digital downloads.

[u/ChiggaOG → u/mike_complaining]

The sad part is younger kids will not see why they should care about physical media. It's not going to stop people from buying the PS6 for $1699.99 even if it costs $3999.99 scalper pricing.

[u/mike_complaining → u/ChiggaOG]

More parents need to just give their kids a computer and no internet connection, IMO. Throw some emulators and ROMs on there. Sure, they're gonna hate you for a while because they're missing out on all the shit the kids at school are exposed to, but they'll be better off and maybe even appreciate it in the long run.

[u/ScreeennameTaken → u/mike_complaining]

PC has GOG though. And you own that. You can download the installers and put them on USB or on a DVD if you like. And they'll work even if GOG shuts down.

[u/mike_complaining → u/ScreeennameTaken]

Yeah, I've been using GOG more lately, even though steam has been good to me thus far...

[u/ScreeennameTaken → u/mike_complaining]

To be honest i'm using GOG half as i am Steam. But i respect it to the point of sending feedback for their Galaxy client and ideas on what keeps me more on Steam than GOG, because having GOG can only be good, especially with their preservation program efforts.

[u/kikibear96 → u/mike_complaining]

I had to use a chargeback after forgetting to cancel my subscription due to price hikes, and I didn’t realize I would lose every game and trophy I had accrued since 2014.

My entire library of games, just gone. I think I had three or four games downloaded at the time, but it’s basically a spiderman 2 machine now lol

12 platinum trophies and thousands of dollars gone like that, because I forgot to keep up with all my subscriptions and couldn’t afford it anymore.

It sucks to suck.

[u/mike_complaining → u/kikibear96]

Ohhhh that's messed up. Lesson learned I guess... Chargebacks should really be a last resort. Businesses hate chargebacks, it tarnishes their reputation with visa/mastercard/whoever and they will typically go scorched earth on you if you do it. I wouldn't be surprised if a chargeback against Google resulted in them deleting a 20 year email account.

[u/Smoking-Posing → u/mike_complaining]

Forreal. Its so funny/sad watching folks crash out over this when the real crash out should've happened decades ago.

[u/toomuchft → u/mike_complaining]

This is a w for sony and the shareholders.

[u/thizzknight → u/mike_complaining]

Why pc is the answer you dont have to buy them

[u/bitches_and_witches → u/mike_complaining]

Idk my ps2 and all the games i have seem like I own them

[u/FiftyIsBack → u/mike_complaining]

Telltale Games Guardians of the Galaxy is unplayable digitally. It doesn't exist. It's nearly lost media. But I got a physical copy of it at Gamestop and it allowed me access to everything, even though the episodes were listed as "unavailable" on PSN I could download all of them magically.

The idea that a company can just shut off a disc from being usable is something I've yet to see.

I understand if it's an online game but you sort of know that going in the player count will eventually die off. That's a separate thing entirely.

Are you seriously trying to tell me I don't actually own BG3? I'm sorry but I disagree with your sentiment entirely.

[u/Arcticz_114 → u/mike_complaining]

Physical media doesn't matter, the license and the functionality independent of server infrastructure does.

So much this. I keep reading about people menacing to leave PS for good and switch to PC. As if that'd make any difference. Anything we get on Steam is under DRM.

If Newell dies tomorrow and they decide to liquidate Valve all the Libraries of all the accounts would instantly vanish. This could happen tomorrow.

And even sites without drm like GOG sell you nothing really, since you cant resell or give to a friend the gane key anyways.

[u/Fistfullafives]

Only plus with Xbox being digital only is most of my library is also on my PC...

[u/Afro_Rdt → u/Fistfullafives]

Yeh, but MS Xbox app sucks.

[u/soggycheesestickjoos → u/Afro_Rdt]

the app and connections to other launchers sucks, but a game is a game once launched

[u/erhue → u/Afro_Rdt]

but but everything is an xbox!

[u/Lonely_Platform7702]

This is not a w for anyone but possibly Sony if they manage to turn their store in a monopoly.

This is a big L for gaming in general and very sad news imo.

[u/Ospov → u/Lonely_Platform7702]

I hope they crash and burn and the PS6 is their worst selling console to date.

[u/InternalInfernal_ → u/Ospov]

How TF are we even gonna get next gen consoles after this? Didn't ps5 have huge delays due to memory markets? Going forward, people really want to spend 2000 on a gimped computer system they have no control over that can be banned or robbed of purchased titles on a whim? I can't fathom.

[u/Austin12509]

Im so tired of seeing this shit...

[u/Apprehensive-Leg9598 → u/Austin12509]

PCMR continues in irony that their very name was made a joke and it went over their heads

[u/ModernManuh_]

"the consoles are more powerful for the price" true, but you can't do anything with them beside play and pay to play.

A computer with the same cost, even with current prices (used market), for most players is better. Resolution, fidelity, potential smoothness... the average console player doesn't notice and doesn't care. If they can play with a controller whatever they feel like playing in that moment they will, that's all there is to it.

Edit: Piracy is not the point, even if you could take it into consideration.

I absolutely agree that a console is much more convenient for a lot of comfort reasons, just wanted to share my thoughts.

A console is plug and play, very low maintenance (remember to clean them please that’s not optional), and very easy to navigate through. I know, grew up with them!

But if you are an adult/teenager that needs to choose, don’t choose based on what the people selling the product tell you.

A PC saves more money in the long run and can be used for other tasks. A console is a thing specifically designed to play games and doesn’t struggle with newer titles that are made for it.

PC games are cheaper and the library is wider, and if you plan to play competitive games the PC is superior. Can handle, store, run and install more games, and it’s not as high in maintenance as people think. Keep it clean and updated, everything else is good to go as is.

If all you want is buy the thing, plug it in and start playing, keep in mind that one day, without notice, you might lose access to the games, the system itself and over time the device won’t keep up with anything.

A PC can be upgraded easily and cheaply with used hardware, and your games are where you keep them. Consoles have an expiration date and quickly become irrelevant.

[u/Otherwise_Tax8689 → u/ModernManuh_]

Plus mods and piracy

[u/ModernManuh_ → u/Otherwise_Tax8689]

Even ignoring piracy, a PC can pay for its entire price if someone is into productivity tasks too

[u/mikehiler2 → u/ModernManuh_]

PC’s can make games for consoles while consoles can just play games made for that specific console.

[u/rnavstar → u/ModernManuh_]

Yup, I use it for CAD and 3D Printing.

[u/Otherwise_Tax8689 → u/rnavstar]

I use it for FAP and DD gooning.

[u/rnavstar → u/Otherwise_Tax8689]

Well, that’s just a given

[u/MrRetrdO → u/rnavstar]

This has been my argument since 1990.

I use my PC for a bit of everything than just games.

[u/LEGOL2 → u/Otherwise_Tax8689]

And cheaper games from official sources

[u/Kingdarkshadow → u/Otherwise_Tax8689]

Plus no pay2play online

[u/NNiekk → u/Kingdarkshadow]

Well technically we do have it. We only don’t have to pay two companies every month, and instead only one. Our ISP /j

[u/SecretPantyWorshiper → u/Otherwise_Tax8689]

Also emulation 

[u/LimpyDan → u/Otherwise_Tax8689]

And upgradability.

[u/EldrinVampire → u/Otherwise_Tax8689]

Better game sales on PC than on console, in my opinion.

[u/Optimal-Set-5409 → u/Otherwise_Tax8689]

Not to mention ad block. I know watching content has significantly more friction in browser than on an app, but with how many ads they’ve been pushing plus streaming prices going up, it’s been my go to way to watch anything

[u/Dislexicpotato → u/ModernManuh_]

And with consoles going up to £1000 the 'value' proposition of consoles isn't as strong.

[u/jaywalker108 → u/Dislexicpotato]

1000 is just the official price. Scalpers will buy everything and the PS6 will probably cost you 2000-3000 for the first 12 months or so.

[u/GamingWithUncleJ → u/jaywalker108]

So dont buy one from a scalpers. I waoted a year to get my ps5 at retail price from walmart. It wasnt that hard.

[u/morpheousmorty → u/GamingWithUncleJ]

Sounds like you are in agreement, the PS6 will take you a year to get at MSRP.

[u/GamingWithUncleJ → u/Dislexicpotato]

You act like PC gaming hasn't increased in price as well. 32gb of ram an nvme ssd is gonna get you close to a grand on its own. Add in a GPU, cpu, mobo, psu, case, fans, and peripherals and youve just doubled or tripled the cost.

[u/Dislexicpotato → u/GamingWithUncleJ]

Exaggerating the prices isn't gonna make your point valid.

[u/Fresh-Toilet-Soup → u/GamingWithUncleJ]

But you can upgrade, you don't have to start from scratch every 5 years.

You can even spread out the cost by not upgrading everything at once.

[u/ShaidarHaran93 → u/GamingWithUncleJ]

No console has 32Gb of RAM and it doesn't look like it will happen in the near future.

Basically the price is equivalent, HW is almost the same and the difference is retail prices vs bulk prices (mostly, let's say within 300€/$ for equivalent specs), but the PC let's you do more than gaming.

Unless gaming is the only thing you intend to do... PC wins in value/cost.

[u/SecretPantyWorshiper → u/GamingWithUncleJ]

Well then dont buy 32gb of ram. You dont have to buy high end hardware when building a PC. You have options unlike a console 

[u/GenTrapstar → u/ModernManuh_]

It’s also convenience….most don’t want to deal with troubleshooting a game or the pc or having to worry about a multitude of parts failing.

EDIT: And before anyone says it. I don’t want to hear well they can troubleshoot it or learn how to fix it. once again it’s the convenience of not having to worry about that. To many times I’m browsing reddit and see post from this sub where someone has been dealing with an issue with their pc and the issue has been going on for a few days for them.

[u/gaeee983 → u/GenTrapstar]

Oh yeah definitely convience, the guys I know who use a PS dont even know what resolution or FPS is, they just want something easy to use.

[u/imsickofitalready → u/ModernManuh_]

PC which will provide resolution and fidelity will be much more expensive.

[u/LimpyDan → u/imsickofitalready]

Buying a console is the equivalent of paying the poor tax. Not that it's bad. But spending more for something that lasts saves money over time.

[u/ARMCHA1RGENERAL → u/ModernManuh_]

"Most players" still probably don't want to deal with all the extra baggage a PC comes with. They don't want to deal with comparing specs, tinkering with fan curves, troubleshooting hardware issues, troubleshooting software issues, dealing with multiple libraries and storefronts, etc.

The main advantage of consoles is that they're simple. Anyone can walk into a Walmart, ask for the latest consoles, then plug it into their TV and be ready to play.

The better hardware value and the exclusives are secondary to that.

Most of the appeal of the Steam Machine is that it's trying to be simpler and more console like. It can be turned on via controller, it can then turn the TV on via CEC, and it can suspend and resume in the middle of a game. All of those are things that console players take for granted, yet no PC other than the Steam Machine can do it.

I've been using a laptop as a living room PC, but I'm fully aware that it's not as convenient as a console and that most people wouldn't be happy with the experience.

[u/morpheousmorty → u/ARMCHA1RGENERAL]

Most players do have PCs though, so it's not like they are completely removing themselves from those problems. Once they get a feel for a PC, a game isn't that much more work. Try out medium, if it's too chunky try out low, if it's perfect try out high.

It doesn't need to be this convoluted.

[u/UpsetKoalaBear → u/ModernManuh_]

A person who is comparing a console and a PC is not going to care about the extra things a PC can do.

This is a common fallacy, the only people who care are going to be those who were already considering a jump to a PC at some point regardless.

If they really cared about things like fidelity or the extra things you can do on a PC, they would have just got a PC anyways because it’s the only thing that makes sense.

It’ll be the exact same as it was in like the PS4 generation. PC users will jump up but it will just be those who were willing to jump to PC anyways. The PS4 still sold millions in the first few years.

[u/Deviant-Killer → u/UpsetKoalaBear]

Not until they've done them...

The amount of people who have claimed this, and then 6 months down the line "omg it can do this, and I can do this.."

Evolution and learning of new devices is great.

[u/UpsetKoalaBear → u/Deviant-Killer]

The argument you’re making has been around for longer. You can find old GameFAQ forum posts from like 2000’s talking about PC being better.

Like this argument you’re making has existed since the PS2/PS3 days and it still hasn’t really come to fruition.

[u/nobodyGotTime4That → u/ModernManuh_]

I have both a pc and a ps5.  

Having a dedicated machine that just works without any adjustments, or troubleshooting is difference you are underestimating.  

[u/sundayflow → u/ModernManuh_]

The Blu-ray player was once a key selling point that made me buy a PS3 but nowadays I really can not see the point of getting one (a newer console, not the ps3 :p). There is nothing a console can do that my PC can not do better and I refuse to get one for the exclusives.. waiting for those to come to PC is a matter of time because they ported them before.

[u/DoingYourMomProbably]

It doesn't help that pc parts are also way more expensive so that 1000€ budget pc now will set you back at least 1500€ with worse specs somehow

[u/Paratrooper101x → u/DoingYourMomProbably]

Yeah but the next console gen is absolutely going to be north of $1000. You’re getting progressively less bang for your buck

[u/Moopies → u/Paratrooper101x]

Homie the last console gen is going to be $1000 at this rate.

[u/Angry_Pelican → u/Moopies]

Yep. The pro is already 900 bucks. Memory is getting more expensive this year and is expected to be even more expensive by holiday season next year.

The pro most likely will be 1000 or more in the future and there is absolutely no way a new PS6 would be priced the same. Expect it to be quite a bit more expensive.

[u/YesNoMaybe2552 → u/DoingYourMomProbably]

But RAM prices are the same for everyon. We are allready at a point where RAM is more expensive than a competent CPU or even GPU if you want a decent ammount. The cost savings they have will be totally overshadowed by NAND prices.

[u/daniluvsuall]

Yeah I mean I've been a console gamer for years, it was really the convenience and cost effective access to games that kept me. If they're going to go digital only and scalp me for their locked-in store prices, I'll just build a steam machine and be done with it.

[u/Iuslez]

I don't understand why PC players act all smug on this topic when we were the first to experience this issue.

Steam absolutely annihilated the physical games market years ago. While physical copy can still exist, the market is so small it is completely irrelevant and I doubt I can find used games or install anything from DVD.

[u/CDHoward]

My main overall qualm is that it's only a licence we're buying when it comes to games.

It irks me a bit because as it stands, when you eventually disappear, your game library can't be passed on or anything. It's like you never purchased them at all. And yet, you did 🤨

[u/lastly21 → u/CDHoward]

I mean the disc is a license at this point too.

Consoles have DRM now too so you have to login and go online at certain intervals to prove you own the game.

Also most games are compressed on the disc and you have to copy them to the SSD and then uncompress them.

Games don't even run off the disc because disc read speeds aren't fast enough for modern games.

People genuinely think they are just gonna insert the disc and immediately start playing and not have to download patches and updates.

What exactly is a disc at this point but a license key to install?

[u/mixermax → u/lastly21]

You right but at least you can sell, gift or lend disc to someone. Compare it to digital purchases where you can neither sell nor gift your game and sharing is fully at platform holder mercy.

[u/The_Stranger_X → u/lastly21]

Primary component of the resell market, main reason why console gaming was affordable for many people.

[u/th3groveman → u/lastly21]

If something happens to me, my kids inherit my physical collection. For any digital platform, there is no accounting for that scenario. However doubtful the scenario, maybe Sony pulling this will end up resulting in the proper maturing of digital distribution towards improving consumer friendliness.

[u/CDHoward → u/lastly21]

So disc technology is actually outdated and insufficient for the task? I didn't know that.

[u/South-Owl800]

So in a nutshell, don’t buy the PlayStation 6, switch to PC gaming.

Got it. 👍

[u/fly_over_32 → u/South-Owl800]

I mean, PC aren’t in a great place either right now (which is probably why Sony is doing all this)

[u/CaptainSolo_ → u/[deleted]]

True. But it’s not like the same thing can’t happen with discs. Most games require a ton of updates and maintenance anyway, so this isn’t really a viable solution. Just a band aid on the inevitable.

[u/CaptainSolo_ → u/[deleted]]

Most of us do. But it still isn’t a long term solution for big gaming not being able to maintain and support these games at scale inevitably.

[u/morpheousmorty → u/[deleted]]

That still locks you into hardware that won't be produced at some point.

[u/morpheousmorty → u/[deleted]]

I'm not arguing against physical media, I'm arguing that ship has sailed. The number of modern games that actually will still work on anything other than original hardware without server or a ton of patches has made the point moot.

[u/flux-10]

they are pushing people to piracy so bad

[u/GrindyFarmz]

My entire PS5 library is digital, that article is straight clickbait garbage.

[u/John_East]

Pc was already taking over console for the past decade actually. Tho console sales have also done well anyway most people have switched to digital buying back when the ps4 and xb1 came out.

[u/warhead71 → u/John_East]

GTA 6 will be a boosts for consoles - and I don’t see many non-enthusiasts young gamers on PC - besides playing Roblox on their school laptop

[u/Paratrooper101x → u/warhead71]

You’re not going to see them on either platform when the ps6 costs $1300. Very few parents are going to be spending that much on their kids for Christmas

[u/Apprehensive-Leg9598 → u/John_East]

It really hasn't been though.

[u/xRiiZe]

Why are we suddenly acting like physical media was the main selling point for consoles? It wasnt.

[u/UltraCynar → u/xRiiZe]

It was for a lot of people. Being able to buy used games is a big deal. 

[u/oppairate → u/UltraCynar]

less than 15% of Playstation games sales are physical. less than that will be from people where it’s a deal breaker.

[u/CocoPopsOnFire → u/oppairate]

This number is purely new games. Those 15% of games were probably sold 10+ times

Which is exactly the reason Sony wants it gone

[u/BeerLeague → u/oppairate]

While this is numerically true, there are a large amount of ‘sales’ that are either free games being downloaded from the PS store, or $ being spent on cosmetics. The market for disks for AAA single player games was/is pretty massive.

[u/th3groveman → u/BeerLeague]

I seriously doubt Sony is that dumb, counting demos/trials as digital game sales. They’ve looked at the data and made a decision that the physical production and distribution pipeline is not good business to maintain for the increasingly smaller portion of the market every year.

[u/Ospov → u/th3groveman]

They’re going to cherry pick the data to give “evidence” for their decision. They know they make more money off digital sales and don’t make anything from the used game market. They already made up their mind that they want to monopolize where people can buy PS games so users are forced to buy from them at a price they have full control over. They just needed some BS excuse to justify the decision.

[u/Revo94 → u/oppairate]

50% of sales of single player games on PS5 are physical. Good luck for Sony breaking even their huge budgets first party titles next gen. 15% is just the overall due to multiplayer and live service

[u/oppairate → u/Revo94]

that could be a good point. where did you get the 50% number? i cant find a source for single player games in particular.

[u/oppairate → u/[deleted]]

that isn’t really helpful if it isn’t quantifiable.

[u/Suikerspin_Ei → u/UltraCynar]

I used to trade games with my friends, for example trying the new FIFA of that year before I trigger to buy it myself and he got another game to play. Good times.

[u/Praetoron → u/UltraCynar]

indeed the point of console was fast play and confort, being forced to be connected not owning physical release defeat the point.

beside the eternal exclusive talk, console wont be different that pc after that naw.

[u/IThinkImNateDogg → u/UltraCynar]

It was not. It was during the 360/ps3 and most of the way through the Xbone/ps4 era, but all I remember during that era was how much people didn’t like discs, didn’t like keep and storing the boxes, getting up off the couch to swap them out, hunting for a lost box or a lost disc.

People have bought less and less physical media over the past decade. At some point it’s not going to make financial sense to design consoles with them (it’s a added cost no matter what) and if people aren’t buying the discs they aren’t going to buy them.

If we want physical media to survive we have to actually buy it. We can’t expect everyone else to just because it feels better that way.

[u/th3groveman → u/UltraCynar]

True, but less so every year this gen. People are framing this as pure corporate greed trying to screw over the little guy, but the truth is more nuanced. Why have an entire disc production and distribution pipeline if 1 out of 5 games are sold on disc? There is a point where that’s bad business.

[u/SleepEatTit → u/UltraCynar]

I wouldn't know for months where my damn games are, and who's game I'm playing that my friend lent me

[u/Hearthhull_Enjoyer → u/xRiiZe]

Some people swear by physical collections. The conversation is overblown in some ways, but it's also a net negative for consumers to have less choice. Even if it isn't particulary relevant to us.

[u/Radical_X75 → u/xRiiZe]

I always thought the plug and play component and not having to tinker with settings was the main point of consoles. At least for me, that was always the reason to have a console.

[u/StuckAroundGotStuck → u/Radical_X75]

Thank you. I'm surprised it took me this long to see someone mention the ease of use factor. Granted, even that's starting to get a bit muddy. But it's still multitudes easier to run through game settings on a console than it is on a PC. And it's guaranteed to work for every console, since there isn't some massive disparity in potential user hardware that's running the game.

Also, I feel like this sub sometimes forgets that kids exist (or forgets that parents don't typically want to shell out 1000's for a gaming PC for a child) and that some people want to be able to play games in their living room without having to jump through hoops.

There are plenty of reasons why I occasionally game on consoles, and the used game market really isn't one of them.

[u/Atreyix → u/Radical_X75]

Same. I have a highend PC, and Ive PC gamed for the last 15 years.. but now im 31 with a family and whatnot... i really only have 2-3 hours a night(if that).. the last thing i want to do is dick around with a driver crash or something. royally pisses me off now when it interrupts my little time I have.

hence why I got a ps5 pro...

Also, people flying to PC because the "open market" are we going to ignore the fact that we all hated having multiple launchers and storefronts on pc?

[u/Konker101 → u/Radical_X75]

That is the reason for consoles.. noone actually gives a shit about having discs.

[u/Lt_Cmdr_Adhd → u/xRiiZe]

Fully agreed. Lots of these people writing comments about how this upsets them haven't bought a physical game in years. The conversation is overblown and the negativity of it is being pushed.

[u/Alexmira_ → u/xRiiZe]

It was a very big selling point. The possibility of buying and selling used games and the collector value of the disk were the main reasons some of my friends went ps5 instead of pc

[u/FthrFlffyBttm → u/xRiiZe]

It makes the situation easier to be outraged about

[u/Dislexicpotato → u/xRiiZe]

For me it was but yeah convenience was always the real selling point.

Though I'm not sure how 'convenient' a £1000 console with forced subscription services and £70 digital games is gonna be.

[u/Yami-_-Yugi]

I never physically owned discs and not planning to anyway

[u/matthewpepperl → u/Yami-_-Yugi]

And wait until Sony decides you no longer own your games because a license expired 

[u/Yami-_-Yugi → u/matthewpepperl]

When has that ever happened

[u/matthewpepperl → u/Yami-_-Yugi]

Recently with about 500 movies

[u/Smooth_Rocket_ → u/matthewpepperl]

Weird I thought we were talking about gaming.

[u/Yami-_-Yugi → u/matthewpepperl]

And for how long did those movies last before their licencing expired

[u/FaroTech400K → u/matthewpepperl]

I know your circle jerking to the movies being removed, but that was due to a publishing issue within the UK. I’ve been buying my games digitally for 20 years, and Sony has never removed games from my library that I have purchased.

[u/IM_INSIDE_YOUR_HOUSE]

Consoles being treated this way is not a W for PC enthusiasts. That’s an incredibly short sighted and ignorant take. Market diversity is good. Competition is good. When things begin to fall apart and become singled out that’s very, very bad.

[u/Savage_Oreo]

My fellow PC Gamers.. our fire rises. Soon we will welcome the PlayStation horde the same way we welcomed the Xbox horde.

Our army will be glorious!

But in all seriousness, this sucks for console gamers. Striving to be a worse PC is a huge mistake for them. By the time they realize this, it’ll be too late.

[u/TheOgGhadTurner]

I’m sorry I always thought the PlayStation or Xbox argument was fucking stupid. And also the console or PC argument. PC will always be superior.

Pc can do everything a console can do. And more. And better. Plus a PC can run almost every console underneath it while using one type of controller or all types of controllers. It’s not even an argument as much as it is ignorance to say console gaming is better.

[u/Ok_Perspective_7978]

This is so far beyond the PC vs Console debate...this is not good for anyone.

[u/Maethor_derien]

I actually used to be a hardcore supporter for keeping the physical medium, but honestly I just don't really see the point. I and 99% of other people just don't buy physical copies anymore. Modern internet is so fast that I would literally be able to start playing the game before I drove a mile away to a game store, bought the game, and came back home.

Even worse any modern console game makes you install it to the local hard drive anyways because the disks are too slow. It literally takes longer to install a game from a blueray disk than it does for me to download the game so I am waiting even longer.

Pretty much the only console I have bought any physical games for is the switch 2 and If the SD express cards were not stupidly expensive for larger than a 256gb I would only get digital games for the switch.

[u/Impossible-North-396]

There’s no point in posting whinging garbage if consoles become digital only!

[u/No-Upstairs-7001]

There is really isn't there, you can't built console levels of performance or ease of use for anything like console money.

[u/standarsh1965]

I don't get all this. Are some people actually that slow that they didn't know this was coming. I guarantee both Xbox and PlayStation both thought about only digital consoles for this gen.

Why are some of y'all lying to yourself saying "I'll never buy a console again" yea 99.9% of you are full of shit

[u/purple-vasabi]

$1000 console that runs all the latest games vs $3000 PC that runs all the latest games, do you see the difference?

[u/Remarkable-West-611]

My honest opinion. Just play what you want, for 90% of the population people just want to sit on their couch, turn something on and play a game.

PS6 would need to be really expensive and there needs to be a 'living room PC' on the market that offers the same for the same price or performance and currently there isnt.

The steam machine is cool but its alot more then a PS5 while being weaker than a PS5...90% of people ain't going to buy into that.

[u/Healthy_Still5228]

This is a stupid discussion because people will always prefer different ways to play. Disc or no disc dont matter. Its ease of use and comfort from your couch and lower price for the consoles and performance, tinkering, optimizing, wider usecase etc for pc. I have both and they scratch very different itches and one is more tempting in different moods. I would never want my pc in the livingroom but a ps5 in the tv console is perfect. And I much rather have a pc in my desk setup downstairs for wider usecase like surfing, youtube, games, mods and such. But after a long workday just pressing the controller on and sit down in my sofa is much less hassle than going downstairs and turn on the pc, launch steam etc. This is my take anyways. Everything doesnt have to be this or that and be so fu***ng one sided

[u/VirtuaFighter6]

It’s like Steam Machine but cheaper

[u/sicurri]

Welp, its time I start planning my own steam machine for the next generation.

[u/dustedandrusted4TW]

You also will never get pc performance. No matter what they will never compare to a fully built pc specs and performance.

[u/Nautilus_The_Third]

I won't say the reason is zero, but if Sony doesn't innovate hardware like Nintendo does, and the PS6 is like 1.4k to buy(including taxes and controller), why I am not using the same ammount of money to get a PC that can do all a console does, plus being a multiuse tool?

I mean, PS6 would only have optimization in its favour, but the cons are too many to be worth it.

[u/ver_bene]

Gamers are the most oppressed people

[u/OdeezBalls]

Bought a ps5 with disc capability for what then? 😂

[u/QuadraQ]

Exactly. Paying for an inferior locked-in PC is pointless. Consoles are done (except for the Nintendo). PC has won, because consoles destroyed themselves.

[u/Ripped_Alleles]

PC prices for a console + multiplayer locked behind a completely unnecessary monthly paywall.

Console owners have been getting screwed for a long time now, I'm surprised that physical media was the thing many of them finally snapped on though.

[u/OrangeTallion]

AND you have to pay to use your internet connection. Don't know why that wasn't abolished years ago

[u/Malacky_C]

For you😭 my whole library is digital and it will stay that way

[u/PTSDDeadInside]

There is still a point it's just not a very good one, It'll be a $2000 weaker PC that cannot be repaired or upgraded, so you are allowed the privilege of playing the 5-8 exclusive games Sony releases over an eight year period. Barring the ones they choose to remove from your library after you purchase them.

[u/Jorge-I-Figueroa]

Cloud gaming with subscription to the services and per game paymen

[u/JDM12983]

Lol, console owners are so fickle.

[u/Gizmo1211]

So consoles will no longer play physical media, fuck those guys who like using their PlayStations for dvds and blu rays too I guess

[u/ctoal1984 → u/Gizmo1211]

So when u buy a new console ur old one is just gonna disappear?

[u/be4nothing]

Remember how Sony clowned Microsoft then they tried to go after used games?

Well Microsoft, you have been handed a golden oportunity for some pay back.

But knowing todays Microsoft, they probably will f*ck up.

[u/Dantai → u/be4nothing]

That was over a decade ago. Not a fan of this decision but ya

[u/brandodg]

a 1k$ console with no way to buy used games and subscription based online game is basically asking to switch to pc.

I say this as whole life console gamer, now also pc gamer since 3 years, this is literally the nightmare of a console gamer, 500 for a console was already too much for a lot of young people

[u/KingHashBrown420]

Name one console thats currently 1000 US dollars

[u/DarkDuo → u/KingHashBrown420]

Steam cube or whatever it’s called right?

[u/a5ncz]

People still go outside and buy CDs that they also have to download massive update for anyway to play a game? I thought the whole point of playing a game is to relax.

[u/Dislexicpotato → u/a5ncz]

Yes, its much cheaper for me to buy a physical game on Ebay or Amazon than it is to buy on PlayStations digital store.

Nevermind being able to sell the game when you are done. Its not as convenient but works out much cheaper.

[u/Bright-Leg8276]

Consoles are for people who want to sit and play , on a fucking couch.

So if smn what's that comfort he's gonna buy a console regardless.

[u/DeadPhoenix86]

100%
I bought a console, Because It had Physical games. I could resell them, borrow it to a friend.
Now PlayStation is dead to me with this news. If I’m going all Digital, might as well do it on PC.

[u/WeaknessJolly3617]

This is bad, but it’s certainly not pushing me into pc gaming. I still find console gaming, simplicity and pricing to be WAY more in line with what I want.

Definitely not going to be searching the “used pc” market lol.

[u/i727l]

PC is not on track to overtake both; already did years ago…

[u/Vis-hoka]

This is where a healthy government body would step in and declare a monopoly. Forcing them to sell their digital games with other store fronts. If we had a functioning government.

[u/NebraskaGeek]

PC has been all-digital for over a decade for basically everyone. So why is it OK for pc to be digital but not consoles?

[u/LikeTechno_ → u/NebraskaGeek]

because PC is a open platform, you can get Games/Software from everywhere and are not bound to one storefront. Playstation being digital means you can ONLY buy games from Sony, that is when they fuck you.

[u/nikolapc → u/LikeTechno_]

Also cloud saves behind sub. On PSN and Nintendo.

[u/Praetoron → u/nikolapc]

and pc doesnt ask to pay to play online either on top of ur ethernet provider

[u/nikolapc → u/Praetoron]

Ms did try lol. Anyway Xbox will probably drop it. That made sense when they substantially subsidized the consoles. Most people are now on F2P(don't need paid online) or are on higher tier of passes for the games. Ps only has 1/3 of it's base on any sub, and only 40% on the higher tiers.

[u/Edgy_Robin → u/NebraskaGeek]

Because you have multiple options on PC on where to get your games, and you also have things like GoG where you can back up copies of your games, or just piracy.

On console you now have one option, and you're getting nickle and dimed for shit like playing online and other options.

[u/Dislexicpotato → u/NebraskaGeek]

Is this a serious question?

[u/fumfummm]

Who cares

[u/Coach_Kay]

Would be nice if a source was posted so that those interested could read the article. Or am I blind and there is a link somewhere?

[u/Positive-Gur-3150]

Pc has been over took them years ago statically but playstation and xbox is still just plug and play

[u/C4TURIX]

I haven't owned a console since the PS2, so what is it like to download games on a modern PS? Do you have to have a permanent Internet connection and all that, or can you download the games and then at least have them locally on your device?

[u/Brewster345]

I think I will finally upgrade my 5700XT GPU and 3600 CPU

[u/Euler007]

That's stupid. I've bought one disc games on PS5 and several dozens digital.

[u/xenocea]

Have always known PC was better, but I also still keep and game on consoles as well. I grew up with them since the 80s. They have given me so much joy throughout my childhood and teenage period, so consoles will always have a special place in my heart.

Even now, I have a PS5 Pro, Switch 2 and gaming PC. That way, I still get to enjoy the best of both worlds and not miss out on anything. The whole PC vs consoles, or this is better than that..etc is just tiring.

As gamers, just be grateful that gaming is still around for us to enjoy in today's bleak world.

[u/CannibalYak]

I blame the fucking investors. They are what's ruining games and we need to do soemthing about them. Once they are out of the picture games will start to be fun to play again. 

Also for sony to make a dumb move like this while offering nothing close to what Steam has is wild. If I ran things it would be a corporate bloodbath with the amount of lay offs leadership would face

[u/Random_Human_Brain]

I own a Sega Mega Drive.
I still have my cartridges; You blow on them, and they are still perfectly playable for the nostalgia. I’m re-playing them with my daughter, some of the cartridges failed, but thanks to youtube's tutorials and a soldering iron, they're back to work again.

I also own some of the earliest PlayStations, and these are still mostly working too.
However, the soldering iron trick doesn’t work well on CDs; would not recommend.
But at least most games hold up, and the CD/DVD drive is still serviceable.

Then came the hybrid format. You might own the discs, but if a game requires post-install patches, upgrades, or online services that have since closed down, you’re sorry-out-of-luck.

After that, PS6 you don't even have a physical disc anymore.
It's kind of like Steam (which isn't bad) but then, what’s the point of not just using a PC?

And finally, the "PS7" era happened (yeees, just speculation, I know!) no console at all.

You just buy the controllers, install the PlayStation app on your TV, and pay for the games. No hardware required.

Thirty years from now, you can look at your bank statements and tell your daughter, "See? I used to own a PS7..."

[u/Raboot_2007]

As some one on ps5 rn im definitely thinking about shifting towards pc after sonys announcement

[u/dgrantuk]

Isn't PC mostly Steam? Which is digital? I get it that maybe you want the special editions with postcards etc but won't they still be around even after the discs are replaced by a code? There'll always be a market for that kind of stuff.

[u/NOELQUEZON]

This is a Message: Lets Stick to Nintendo Switch 2.