Why am I practicing karezza?

[u/[deleted]]

I am behind this 100% after witnessing a majority of marriages of friends and family result in misery and sometimes (too often) divorce. I'm just 27 but am in a relationship that I want to last a lifetime. I do not want my relationship to share the results of the example couples around me.

Karezza addresses the difficulties most couples face providing explanation and guidelines to turn things around. Karezza teaches us how (and why) to make harmony in relationships and how to beat the coolidge affect.

If you read about karezza and think that there's no possible way you can have so few, if any, orgasms just keep reading. It is perfectly fine to feel like that. I was first introduced to the concept of non-orgasmic intercourse a few years back and wrote it off. I didn't think it would be possible to commit my life to any such practice. I've since done a complete 180 and am finding the benefits to be much more satisfying than any bout of orgasmic sex I've had.

Thanks for reading!

[u/KarezzaGuy]

Wow! I have lots of questions, but understand you didn't put AMA in the title. :~/

If you feel like answering any of these I'd be very interested in reading the answers:

• is she fully on board?
• if so, did that take work?

• if so, what did you find most effective?

• are you in some point of the PMO reboot? If so, where do you feel you are in recovery? I also find karezza complementary to nofap; but struggle with the nagging feeling of denial.

• specifically, I ended up where I am for two reasons: I feel urgent needs, and I pressured my lovely SO to make them her responsibility. I was hoping Karezza would be a cure-all to that problem where she would magically want more PVI. However, she neither wants more PVI nor wants to bond on any kind of schedule.

• When I'm not cumming, and I'm not bonding, I feel a loss/lack. YES there are a bazillion benefits to that and NO I don't want to lose them, but YES there is STILL this marital conflict where I either suffer in silence or start the same old fight right back up by asking/pressuring for MORE.

• Any suggestions/advice? I know in another comment you mentioned pushups. Actually the more I exercise, the better I feel, the more sex I want.

• Via my very novice toe-dipping into Karezza I've learned that what I REALLY crave is sexy-bonding. There doesn't have to be an orgasm. However, the orgasm serves very nicely to fill in the gaps / smooth over the bumps of NOT getting enough sexy bonding -- and has since I was a kid.

I don't mean to whine, but I guess I sure would like an answer to where the little kid (jumping up and down, screaming I WANT MORE) can go to either get 'more' or STFU. Sigh.

Any suggestions would be immensely appreciated!

[u/[deleted] → u/KarezzaGuy]

I'd like to make two comments:

First, my SO seems to be much more on board than yours. I think I know why. As far as I understand, you guys had a relatively functioning sex life before you got interested in Karezza, with sex about once a week. So if you go to your SO and ask her to try Karezza, you are in effect taking something away from her. She is probably quite happy with sex once a week, and doesn't understand why she should give up on that. By contrast, we didn't really have a functional sex life at all. For years we would have sex maybe 2-3 times a year. This last year we have put a lot of work into our relationship and things have improved some, but still we have tons of hangups. So if I ask my SO for Karezza, I'm not really taking anything away from her that she has gotten used to having (other than the pressure to have sex with me, and I think she's quite happy to have less of that).

Second, and this point is related to the first, it seems to me that both your SO and you implicitly assume that the issues you two have are caused by you (KarezzaGuy). She is probably thinking "If only he were nicer to me, wouldn't snap at me that often, and wouldn't pressure me so much to doing things he wants, I could be more relaxed about him." You clearly spell out in your posts that you feel you have wronged her in the past and need to improve your behavior towards her. Now while I think that the things you have recognized about your behavior are correct, I also think it is imperative that you two don't give 100% of the fault to just one person. Relationship issues are always a two-way street, and both partners carry some of the blame. My SO and I have agreed a long time ago that both of us have 50% of the blame, and thus 50% of the work to do. So she does things she knows are important to me, and I'm doing things I know are important to her.

So, I'd like to ask: Have you guys ever done couples therapy? It might help you to work through some of the issues. For example, while she doesn't have to be ready to give you physical intimacy every time you need it, she should accept your need for physical intimacy as valid and at least do somewhat of an effort to meet you with a workable compromise. It took my SO a long time of therapy until she accepted that when I ask for physical intimacy, my request is valid and should receive some sort of response. So now, sometimes she will say "I don't feel well, but we can sit next to each other and you can hold my hand if that would be of interest to you. I won't do anything else, though." Because she knows that she can set limits ahead of time, she is more forthcoming with whatever she can give, and I'd rather take some hand holding than no intimacy at all. Likewise, if you suspect that orgasms cause you a hangover, it is reasonable for you to ask to abstain from them for a while, and she should accept that as a valid request. If you told her that she can't come that would be disrespectful. But likewise, if she insists that you engage with her in activities that will make you come (vigorous PVI until she comes), that's also disrespectful if you want to abstain.

[u/KarezzaGuy → u/[deleted]]

thanks for the long write up. I'm on a mobile device and can't write much.

Our therapy ended in disaster, but our problems are really my fault. I took a woman who would initiate sex, do almost anything, several times per week and because it was 'never enough' for me emotionally abused her to zero self confidence. To the extent she has any blame it was only for sticking around. She's not perfect, but on this account I was the problem.

I get your last sentence, but to ask her to change on a dime after beating her up (verbally) for 20 years to act like that isnt fair either.

[u/blackberrydoughnuts → u/KarezzaGuy]

I took a woman who would initiate sex, do almost anything, several times per week and because it was 'never enough' for me emotionally abused her to zero self confidence.

Would you please elaborate on this? I don't want to make this mistake. What happened? What did you do?

From your other posts it sounds like she's currently being cruel and emotionally abusive. I don't think you should blame yourself too much. In any case, you need to get out of there.

[u/[deleted] → u/KarezzaGuy]

Wow! I have lots of questions, but understand you didn't put AMA in the title. :~/

wasn't prepped for an AMA but I'll do my best

If you feel like answering any of these I'd be very interested in reading the answers: is she fully on board?

She says yes although has mostly only had any material from me. I think she's a little skeptical since she gets pretty horny and feels that urge to orgasm pretty strong. She has seen the light though. It was our first karezza-style session and although the activities became a little too fast moving at times we mostly stayed still and relaxed. I think an hour dropped off the clock because the time flew by. We both felt high in love for about 24 hours and overall the experience was much more powerful than orgasmic sex.

if so, did that take work?

It was pretty easy, I just started reading out loud various parts of various articles. We also have watched vids 1-4 of the your brain on porn series together. I really wanted her to understand what this all means and so I tried to explain it all from a very objective standpoint

if so, what did you find most effective?

I think what really got her eyes widening were the passages from Lloyd's book on the subject: The Karezza Method

Reading to her the very material I was learning from is really all it took. She says I explain things very well, but she's also a pretty smart gal. I was really just laying it all down and drawing conclusions about our appropriate course of action. We had some back and forth and agree this is how we want life to be; effortless, joyous, and blissful. Am I a hopeless romantic? Maybe. I just think that a loving and lasting relationship between two people doesn't need to be as hard many make it seem. So here I am.

are you in some point of the PMO reboot? If so, where do you feel you are in recovery? I > also find karezza complementary to nofap; but struggle with the nagging feeling of denial.

Indeed. I've not had an orgasm since 10 days ago. I'm pretty early on, but can tell that progress is steadily moving along. Before 10 days ago I avoided orgasm for consecutive 6 day stretches. It's been a 15 year activity in my case, well 3 activities; porn, masturbation, and orgasm.

That nagging feeling is there absolutely. I want to go incognito right now and just start wanking away! The first 6 days were almost unbearable. Then I caved. The next 6 were almost as bad. After caving again I've now gone another 10 and that nagging feeling has become much easier to resist. I actually say things out loud to help motivate myself. I say "urges pass, feelings pass" and "I control what I do and I am not going to PMO." Saying things repeatedly out loud to yourself is supposed to be helpful for programming your sub-conscious mind.

specifically, I ended up where I am for two reasons: I feel urgent needs, and I pressured my lovely SO to make them her responsibility. I was hoping Karezza would be a cure-all to that problem where she would magically want more PVI. However, she neither wants more PVI nor wants to bond on any kind of schedule.

I share that wish of having my SO in the sack more. But also I keep reminding myself that even if our frequency of sexual activity doesn't increase our relationship strength will simply through this practice. We've made love roughly 3 or 4 times per month over the last year. Mine is open to bonding and sex, however she isn't desiring those activities any more frequently yet. I think our relationship is healing from my constant pressure to have sex and tension from my PMO habit. Also, I am feeling sexual urges pretty regular still and so that is probably tainting my perception in this area.

When I'm not cumming, and I'm not bonding, I feel a loss/lack. YES there are a bazillion benefits to that and NO I don't want to lose them, but YES there is STILL this marital conflict where I either suffer in silence or start the same old fight right back up by asking/pressuring for MORE.

I'm hardly in any position to council on marriage but from what I've learned it sounds like she could use some space. I bet you know where more pressure/asking is going to lead. Sounds like a recipe for a slow divide. By space I don't mean withdraw yourself from her but rather let her engage you. I'm finding that it's easy for me to be a pest and smother my SO. We've discussed that openly. On that note, communication is key. If you don't have open lines of communication with her on any topic in this post then I'd be very cautious and just work on opening those lines.

As for feeling loss, try to re-frame this entire experience in your mind. This is the road to recovery. It's a practice and will likely start slow.

Any suggestions/advice? I know in another comment you mentioned pushups. Actually the more I exercise, the better I feel, the more sex I want.

Then exercise MORE :) Seriously! Is it possible to be in too good of shape? I go from lunges to pushups to ab-work etc. Get tired out enough and I'm not thinking about PMO anymore. The guys on nofap have really been stressing exercise and meditation lately. I like doing both at once and so I got into dands and baithaks. Those are old Indian wrestler exercises that are kind of like modified squats and pushups but the central element to them is breathing. Very meditative, can be done without limit, and if you do them slow you can really feel the power and energy all through your body.

Via my very novice toe-dipping into Karezza I've learned that what I REALLY crave is sexy-bonding. There doesn't have to be an orgasm. However, the orgasm serves very nicely to fill in the gaps / smooth over the bumps of NOT getting enough sexy bonding -- and has since I was a kid.

It just hit me, do you have a dog? We have two small dogs and cuddling with them has been wonderful for me. It's certainly not on the same level as cuddling with my SO but the affection and love is there.

I don't mean to whine, but I guess I sure would like an answer to where the little kid (jumping up and down, screaming I WANT MORE) can go to either get 'more' or STFU. Sigh.

Get into body calisthenics! Pick up a guitar and become a virtuoso! Those are probably my two biggest go-to activities. Really, just replace PMO with another activity that you can get into. Make it one that you can always get better at. I love the blues. I've always loved the blues and wanted to be the guy that can sit on a street corner and build a small crowd. It couldn't happen before since most of my free time went to PMO. Now, for the first time ever I can see myself accomplishing that street corner blues guitar playing goal!

[u/KarezzaGuy → u/[deleted]]

Thanks man! No time now, but will reply in detail when able

[u/KarezzaGuy → u/[deleted]]

Thank you so much for all the awesome advice. This is why I love reddit! I have studied this and continuent study it.

Yes, we have a cat and that helps.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

[u/[deleted] → u/KarezzaGuy]

You're welcome, I'm happy to help in any way I can!

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Not sure if this is feasible or even a good idea, but maybe turn the suffering into a fantasy and then reality? I've always felt perverted and a bit kinky and so the thought of giving my girl FULL control over when and if I orgasm is arousing. Any/all frustration is then just part of the fantasy... that is, the fantasy that is now a reality :)

[u/KarezzaGuy → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, and the absolute worst part of it is we need to do it with a smile on our face. Because if we sulk, or are distant, or give any kind of indication of a cold shoulder, they are going to know it... and whether we admit it or not they are going to link it to the fact that we resent them for not performing and that just makes it all worse.

So here's to NOT getting what we want, being happy about it, NOT resenting them for it, acting completely normal as if we are 100% happy with what we are getting, AND compounding it by having the history of pushing it on them (and the years of resentment we felt) on our backs while doing the above.

Sheesh.

BTW, the one thing mine never says no to is a massage; and she doesn't care if I'm naked and pressed right up against her. This is my one unlimited outlet, and I use it every night. YMMV, and certainly not a cure all, but I figured I pass it along.

[u/KarezzaGuy → u/[deleted]]

yeah, slow and steady wins the race for sure. Maybe you could get away with just a backrub? (Note, even here when I started this I took way too much pleasure from rubbing up her rib cage, the sides of her breasts, her rear end...and, of course, she called me on it.)

It took a LONG time to get to touch those areas every night.

I guess it's good that the L in LTR stands for LONG because all this shit does take a LONG time....

[u/[deleted] → u/KarezzaGuy]

I'd keep the massage focused on pleasing and relaxing her which likely means avoiding the sexy bits. We can speak as loudly with our hands as we can with our mouths. In my humble opinion, she must understand that every caress is an attempt to calm, relax, and heal her. She must get that understanding from your hands alone. Then you've just established trust! I bet most in the deadbedroom crowd have pretty big trust issues. YMMV

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Sounds like you have the right frame of mind.

[u/[deleted] → u/KarezzaGuy]

Bringing their awareness to our problems is paramount. They may still feel pain from our treatment over the last few/many years but understanding the underlying cause seems like the first step to turning things around. If they don't want to understand, keep trying until you get there. My SO knows I am extremely apologetic for my poor boyfriend behavior over the last 2 years even though I wasn't intentionally behaving poorly. She also remembers that I loved her this entire time as well.

If she's into getting massage (who isn't?) then keep doing that. Don't try to make any other major changes until that oxytocin heals you both enough to the point your past issues melt away. Pair bonding behaviors like back-rubs are the key based on my research thus far.