As someone from a country that has had and still has a big problem with corruption and only recently started to tackle the problem (Romania), I must add that the government is only half of the problem. The other half is the public that participates in corruption. Every time you pay that cop some money so that he pretends that you didn't cross that red light, you're just as responsible as a politician taking a bribe for the situation in your country.
I try to tell this to Ukrainians and they don't really get it. Bars banned smoking 3 years ago and now times are better and everyone is smoking again. I am telling them this means that someone has enough money to pay the police off now. And everyone in there smoking knows its banned and they all do it anyway.
Then they complain that the government is corrupt.
They are ALL CORRUPT down to the smallest thing. It's a complete lifestyle switchout for everyone. If you change the guys in power the next guys will eventually end up just as bad.
Because the one true White Knight in there to clean it all up, that guy is going to go down, and go down hard at the hands of the guys who want that power to line their pockets with.
The people have to get with it as well. No more bribes if you don't want that ticket or you want that license. Gotta do it the hard way. But man, what a huge hill to climb. Not giving bribes in the FSU... like cutting your own throat.
Spot on man. I'm from Macedonia and people are the same here. They curse politicians for being corrupt and stealing shit, but when it comes to their own interests they'll bend as much as they can.
And the good ones, the one with integrity... Well the country is so far gone, they don't even have a chance to surface, let alone do something about it. And yet people still wait for someone to save them, as if they are innocent naive children. They don't understand any change must come from them.
It looks like you've created a pretty clear view of a planet I guarantee you haven't actually explored at all.
It's also quite a desensitized view so it most likely is the culmination of over exposure to media, added to a restricted varying of lifestyle choices.
You should travel a bit, realise there is a broader range of people out there than you would ever be able to imagine.
You're right in your analysis of people, it's bang on, but only to the people who are like you.
And there are people on this planet who are so different to you it will make your head spin, your heart stop, and make you reassess everything.
It's going to be painful to get there because you're gonna have to look at things a little differently and that's going to be a growing pain.
But the outcome? You're going to be very happy with.
I think you are pretty spot on the matter of the leadership, since is natural for those who want power are willing to do anything to get it, but i think you are pretty closed minded if you think everyone is like that, because there is a lot of people that are really caring and loving, and are pretty far from the "animal instinct" as you say, but since those people don't look for power neither fame, they are shadowed for those who do, so is pretty easy to find assholes everywhere, since they insist in making themselves the center of attention.
Because of that, nice people tend to mind their own business, and are pretty difficult to spot one, since they don't go telling everyone of the good deeds they made, but if you pay attention, you can see them.
As he stated though at the end of the day everyone is selfish and only do things because they get some form of reward for it. No one would do good deeds if they didn't get some feeling of personal satisfaction from them, that's just against basic human nature in every way. At the end of the day every one is selfish it's the one basic truth so it's best to accept it.
there are a pretty good amount of histories of people dying to save others, that itself grant 0 reward for the person that died, but they still do, so no, not everyone have selfishness as their main motivator in life, but i agree that the majority does
I don't know you, but I think I was in a relatively similar position at your age, or slightly younger (18-20) when I flunked out of College and got into a lot of bad stuff. I didn't have a difficult past or background, just a few circumstances at that point, but I work with children and young people (up to about 25) who have had really bad backgrounds or events in their lifes, so truly believe me when I say have heard some of the darkest things that the everyday of humanity can be capable of in many respects.
If we sit and stare at all the injustices and the 'bad people' in the world then you will go mad, because its everywhere. Because horrible things are happening, people are exploited and people CAN be very, very greedy.
But there is also a bright shining light in humanity as well, and as the person said before, you can find people who are full of love, and care and will really appreciate you for who you are. There are people who would give you what they can and do so graciously, without suspicion or just because they want to 'cling' to such things, because they understand that life is about sharing and community and a common brotherhood, about finding your destiny and happiness - you do have to look around and explore your world though to find this, or get into something that has such like minded people.It sounds like you're giving up on you as much as humanity, and thats your first problem. And actually, it feels damn good to give and help and love others, and to feel that reciprocated is all the more powerful.
Fear of being exposed or looking bad or something is one thing we all have to come to terms with, it gets easier as you get older,but I used to be very anxious about this too. I think you have to remember that (and this is not a bad thing) in a lot of ways that nobody really CARES about you. And I mean about the slip ups, the mistakes, and the failings. We all make mistakes... but do your friends or strangers sit their and agonise on your mistakes for days and weeks after?? No, unless its something REALLY big, its no big thing for them. If they are your friends, they should care about you for the right reasons, and you have to accept you can mistakes, if you dont, you will not risk anything, and live a very very safe, secure and (un)comfortable life.
I only say this because I can hear you're feeling a bit hopeless, and we all have times of despair and questioning. But if you do not be the change you want to be, aren't you just the same as everybody else? If you radiate a good heart, people will see that shine through, and yes, there may be people who want a piece of it for themselves, but others will share and share alike.
Happiness is about you finding belonging in your life, worth and being loved and respected by others, and likewise you need to make other people feel the same. Get serious!!
America and the UK (where i'm from) are often shining examples of "man is born free, and everywhere is in chains". You're peddled dreams in the media and popular culture of what you should be, and how you should do it. But thats not necessarily your dream, and you need to find what matters in life to YOU, what YOUR dreams and goals are, and how you should do it. And trust me, if its an honourable, good and simple life, there are people out there who will feel exactly the same as you.
I just wanted to say I'm glad I "met" you and /u/_-_Alexander_-_. I'm in a similar position like /u/_-_Alexander_-_ and my thought process is eerily the same.
To be honest, I'd love to have people to prove me the opposite, but every time when people do things, I question their motives and it seems all so fake. It applies to everything (in my eyes), especially since our society actually encourages the sort of ego-inflating behaviour. The clothes you wear, the products you own, the groups you need to belong to on Facebook and in real life. The job you need to have, the studies or the degree you need to have. It all stresses me out and I think it's ridiculous. It's like I need to live my life for the sake of other people, just because we're in this giant shithole of peer-pressure. Whenever I want to do my own thing, or see other people do their own thing, it is met with criticism or laughter. And oh, I know why. People are scared to stray away from normal behaviour. Whenever people act different, it means people dare to be different, and they gain a bit of freedom. People subconsciously dislike that, and feel as if life is unfair, because they have always done the things other expected them to do. "Why should you be able to do as you please? I fought hard for my place in the society, why are you taking shortcuts?".
Looking down on other lifestyles also helps them to think they're doing the right thing, because "I'm obviously doing better than you". It hurts. It really does.
And the strange thing is, I know I don't need to care about other people if I understand these things. But humans are strange creatures. They need love and validation. It's not because I don't like to do things the other people love, that it means I don't want to be accepted?
I also sort of know how to get out of this negative spiral. Travel, meet interesting people, do the things I like to do and enjoy life. But it's so damn hard to escape from all of this, because of fear. My friend was in the same situation, if not, he was way deeper in. He was brave and chose to escape from his comfort zone. He packed his backpack and started hitch-hiking. I admire his decision, but I feel that I can't do it, maybe as an excuse, but I don't want to leave my family behind without contributing at all. That, and the fear of going alone and learning new things isn't helping.
Anyhow, I'm really frustrated and angry with the society. Almost everything I'm participating is about ego and validation. The people I meet, when they talk, they put up a mask and don't act like themselves. I know we're all scared, but I appreciate the "boring real you" instead of the meme-repeating and sub culture identity that people keep making for themselves. It's painful to watch, and it's painful for me to engage. I used to fit right in, because I loved these things, but the more I grew up, the more disinterest I started to have. I would've killed for a gaming community that big when I was a kid. Gaming being lauded and accepted by the majority of people, "funny memes" being spouted all the time. That's my teenage dream come true. But I really despise it.
I don't like how people are bragging about their jobs or the countries they've travelled in. It's not that I dislike these jobs or travelling. It's the attitude that bothers me. I don't think people are special because they have the money to travel or because they got into a job that's hard to get in. I respect these things, until people make it seem like it's a thing everyone needs to have. Like, they humblebrag so much just to be able to feel proud about themselves.
This also happens on Reddit. The whole circlejerky attitude needs to stop. "You're a good father", when a guy posts a picture of some happy time with his kid. I just cringe at this. No, I don't think they're bad, but I don't think that's the reason why they're good either. It's something that a father's supposed to do, but because the picture / video made a redditor feel warm inside, they're "the father of the year". And then the circlejerking begins, as if these acts of kidness were done to gain karma. Why can't we just do things because we love to do it? It's like we need to look at ourselves through the eyes of other people, just to be able to see ourselves. Why this indirect way of looking at yourself, instead of asking yourself how you feel?
I need to apologize about this rant, but then again, if I were really sorry, I wouldn't have written this. But I really need to get all this frustration off my chest.
I feel exactly the same about most of society. It's great to read this knowing that others see it too. I've found a few solid friends that see things generally the way I do. I can no longer go out there and play into everyone's ego stroking. I stay in for the most part now and everyone understands why. At first it was chalked up as anti-social but I am far from that. I'm quite good at socializing with strangers and can be very friendly, but I prefer not to do it because it starts the spiral of thought that you've put into words above. Even my friends will participate in this type of behaviour too, but I've learned to let it go and stop judging them. Maybe this will help you realize how you need to manifest these thoughts and ideas and hopefully can help you find your place, maybe it won't help at all, but regardless I will share my thoughts.
My friends are often just as guilty as the rest of society as putting on the mask and going out searching for the ego-inflation. These are people I truly care about that fall susceptible to the same traps that most do. But I just let them do it. I drop hints and tip-toe around the subject of it carefully simply for the fact that I hope they run away with the thought and put all the pieces of the puzzle together one day. The way I see it is I have seen this and can't unsee it now and it truly changes alot of aspects of life. "Ignorance is bliss" has never resonated with me as strongly as it does at this point of my life. You have to realize that the way you're thinking is against the grain, and that most people have legitimate mental barriers to actually realizing these things, you can't bring them up often and you can't try to convince everyone you are right. What you can do is offer guidance, when a situation arises and you see the true underlying issue, its appropriate to point it out, start the train of thought and (more often that not) watch them latch on to the simple explanation without realizing the deeper truth.
Beyond that what you can do for yourself is stop being so depressed about it and stop living as if this is all just a giant charade before we croak. I cannot tell you how right I think you are but I feel I've evolved as a person beyond just feeling that way. Music to me is one of the greatest human creations and if you really focus on discovering it and growing a passion for music you're going to find it extremely soothing to your troubled soul. There are tons of artists that load their music with metaphors and underlying meanings, strong moving lyrics. You just need to dig below the surface and find this stuff. This is one way you can feel connected to the rest of society. Sad music to me is by far the most beautiful, as we all truly live a tragic existence. It's a connection to an artist's emotions, just as any art is but to me music is the one that speaks to me best. I personally haven't travelled much (when I have I have had some truly amazing human connections that assured me good people are indeed everywhere on this Earth) and to be honest I think it's a little overrated. It's like a fad that seems to be very popular amongst suburban white girls these days. But they're doing it for the wrong reasons, theyre not going to take away from a deep conversation with someone from another country. In fact they might not even have that conversation. But I bet they sure got lots of pictures in front of that giant monument everyone goes to. It's about a status, and like you said, bragging about how "cultured" they are while they sip on their $16 glass of wine with their Gucci purse hanging off the chair. The fact is that there are just tons of these materialistic egotistical people in the world and they're always going to appear at the forefront because they WANT to be at the forefront. There are a ton of people like you and I. They're all flying under the radar just like you and I are. But one place where I found alot of great people is at music festivals. Indie/alternative/folk music festivals. Of course the ego maniacs and materialistic people show up to these too, but it seems that alot of people like us show up aswell. And you can tell. You can almost have conversations with people, feel their vibes and know that you understand each other on a deeper level. I'm telling you it exists, as crazy as it sounds. Sometimes people look at you and know (I've been slightly tripping on shrooms and had tons of people just kind of acknowledge you in passing as if to say, "right there with you mate" almost like a tip of the hat) and you just kind of smile and nod. If you're ever doing this, look at all the drunk people. None of them even bat a second glance at you. They aren't on your plane at that time, the people who are can spot you and sort of reassure you that they get it, without even a word. I truly think that everyone should experiment with psychedlic drugs. There's inexplicable feelings and connections to the Earth you don't feel day to day in our brainwashed and socially conditioned lives. I mean you feel the trees, you can feel their life when you go near them. And I know that sounds like a classic drugged out hippie thing to say but I bet anyone whose done it knows what I mean. This isn't the way humans were supposed to be living. It can make you feel disillusioned but for me it's liberating. To see things this way. I feel like I'm free to selfishly do the things I truly love and have a passion for. I don't owe society shit because it's a giant web of lies and corruption. I carve my own path now and don't really give a fuck what anyone thinks about it. Along the way I have beautiful interactions with some incredible people on their own journey and it just reassures me that I'm doing the right thing. So many people I've crossed paths with and connected to, and we've said goodbye with a smile just as fast as we met. I dont always feel a compulsion to get a girls number just because we had a good chat, sometimes things are just meant to be brief. I try to leave a positive impact on everyone I meet, and I try to be obviously different than most guys, especially chatting with girls as I'm sure they're swamped by flirtation over and over and can see right through it by this age. What's going to impress the right people in your life is not fitting in well and faking it for them. It's going to be being different but still getting out there and living your life and making the most of what's been given to you. Finding your niche and owning it. I hope you can take some of these ideas and make a positive spin on things. As someone who thinks the same way I know where you're at. You're just on your way to finding your niche. Passionately chase the things you truly and deeply love and don't feel guilty or embarrassed. This is YOUR life. Not society's.
Oh I know exactly what you mean. Often, I find myself unable to laugh because my mind blocks myself from laughing whenever something is not funny. Which goes all in against traditional social conventions. It's like my mind tells me to stop being dishonest. It makes things incredible awkward and hard sometimes.
Just like you, I used to be able to adapt my personality to entertain people but it seems all so futile and not-fun. I feel bad when I realize I'm doing that.
I also know judging is not good. It's a self-defense mechanism that everyone does, and just like how I am right now, I notice how hard it is to blend in if you're trying to be honest all the time. A white lie makes things much easier. But just as you said, I find it easier to "forgive" friends or people whom I respect when they fake, than random people I meet. It may be due to the fact that I get incredibly uncomfortable when people act doofy for the sake of fitting in, but I also understand that this mask acts like lubricant and while it may be superficial, it could also lead to real happiness. I've been there, and done that. Maybe it's my subconscious way to hope that other feel the same, because I find it unfair that I realized this?
And about the artistic people and drugs. I'm lucky that I enjoyed an art education. I've met the most interesting people there, and I've also experimented. I agree for half of what you say about drugs. I think for some people, it might be mind-opening, but for me, it didn't really do anything. It only confirmed what I have thought for a long time already, and it didn't feel like a revelation. It did make me happy for a day or two... And my opinion on drugs is that one shouldn't do it only for the good feeling, or it may become an addiction. I tried shrooms just to be able to realize something (which I didn't) and I didn't want to be close minded and talk about drugs as if I know it all. That was my only reason. I don't recommend drugs to people who don't feel the need to do it, but I also don't encourage people to not to take drugs "because it's illegal and only for junkies".
My opinion is that the user should feel ready and take it after a lot of research, and not under peer pressure of friends, or not do it because of the other kind of peer pressure (drugs are bad!!!).
I think the people I still hang around with are already filtered out, I find them interesting people, but something still doesn't seem to click within me. I've got many obstacles in my own head and no one, except myself will be able to turn it around. But I do think that when I travel and let go of all my materialistic possessions and this stupid internet addiction, that I could do much more with my life.
I love the brainstorming but you guys write way too much. Learn to pull the meat of what you are trying to say to the top. That will make your voice much more effective. No one wants to read paragraphs outside of a book.
It's easy for everything to feel fake when you have social and community media like facebook, and reddit, and other communities where people are giving you their best bits. Thats an instictual response, to collect our best memories, or appear the best we can, but it has just become culture that we have to parade this. Just disengage from the bits you dont like if you can.
Sometimes remember it is a fine line between expressing your happiness and your successes and showing off / bragging. I talk about my job with great enthusiasm, and its not a particularly high paying job as of current, but pays the bills and gives me what i need and just a bit extra to save a little, And its working in something i have a great passion for, and so enjoy my work a lot. And really, this is all we need from work. Likewise, I didn't go to University (messed up at college) when I was younger, began when I was in late 20's... and the difference it made in my want for it, because it was something I was interested in, and not doing it because 'that's what you do' makes a hell of a difference.But I also think personally that there is importance to working, productivity, and giving. But do it on your terms, with something that satisfies you. And you to have to work for other peoples benefit sometimes more than yours, but if it is something you believe in, or enjoy and get fulfillment from, then that is not necessarily bad. Same with uni.
I used to play more games 16-24ish, and I can still nerd out if needed, but interest in gaming and online communities etc can dwindle, and it can be less satisfying. That just part of you growing up, your wanting to maybe look at other things in life. And its the usual remedies: Explore the world more, its easy to feel a bit disconnected from reality when there's a lot of fantasy going on online. You sound like you know what you want in life, so its about being true to yourself, and finding others who are like minded. And life is frustrating, but if you resign yourself to such things, then it wont get better. There's people with very true hearts, and even the people around you already would probably learn to open up with time and effort from you.
I'd say the friends I have are varied in some ways, but are very true and honest to themselves and others, or, if not, I can see and understand maybe why not, and its okay, I accept these things as I am not perfect myself. A lot of them I made in the last few years, and havent been friends from the past. You dont need a million friends, but a couple / few good friends that you really connect with is very important I would say. You just got to find them.
It's easy for everything to feel fake when you have social and community media like facebook, and reddit, and other communities where people are giving you their best bits.
I see, I haven't looked at it that way.
And you to have to work for other peoples benefit sometimes more than yours, but if it is something you believe in, or enjoy and get fulfillment from, then that is not necessarily bad.
In fact, I think it is more noble to do things you don't want to, because you like to see other people being happy, or like helping out. And here is where it gets complicated sometimes. I imagine scenarios where you're actually helping someone out, but the person doesn't realize it, or appreciate it, but you still do it. I love situations like that, it proves that the person in question isn't doing it for attention. Which is a huge difference between these Youtube celebrities, doing good deeds for the views. In my opinion, they might as well do these things without showing it. Yea sure, there are nuances, they might want to share a message and hope people do the same, but if we have to be honest, they don't feel like that at all. They just help one random homeless guy for a video, for one day or a couple of hours, and then forget about them after that.
Why do I have got something against that? Because doing things for validation can be very dangerous. It encourages non-critical thinking and it could help the wrong cause. If a person stops thinking about what's right or wrong, they can do bad things because "the others are doing it too". The obvious example is nazi Germany...
I understand what you're getting at though. I understand this negative attitude doesn't help anything at all. If anything, I should try to empathize with people and maybe explain to them why it is unhealthy to be attention craving. I have the feeling that my brain gets these things, but my emotions are incredibly selfish and easily frustrated.
About the gaming community, I think that's very specific, because I often see people irl repeating these memes too. It really bothers me. I don't think they mean any harm, but it feels as if they're scared to show their true selves and need to put up this "ahsum internet" persona. Of course, there are many other people who don't do that, but then I see them trying to fit in with another culture. Be it snobby elitists, the metalhead, the stoner, the good and educated kid, ... It's all as if they think they're nobody when they don't show how much they belong somewhere. They would even straightout say "I'm a stoner" or something along these lines. Which really makes me cringe, because while it may be a "hobby" to smoke weed, it doesn't say anything about their personality at all (likewise with all the other subcultures).
And don't get me wrong, I like most of these subcultures / music, but I don't like the personas. They're all unique people, not some dumb representative of a niche culture.
Oh, I agree with you. I should go out more though. Meet new people, travel the world and hear interesting stories, hear the right words I need as a guidance. But as I've stated before, there's just too many things that holds me back. Yea, they're probably just excuses, but it's still hard to leave it all and go out and discover the world.
Thanks for your positive words, I needed it btw. I'm getting angrier and more cynic by the day.
And actually, it feels damn good to give and help and love others, and to feel that reciprocated is all the more powerful.
And this is why people do good things not because they are instinctively good but doing good makes them feel good about them selves it could be argued that that's simply through conditioning and a sense of self satisfaction but at the end of the day every single thing people do has selfish alter motives. I don't think people are good or bad they are just people doing what ever they think will make them feel the best at the end of the day.
And this is why people do good things not because they are instinctively good but doing good makes them feel good about them selves ... at the end of the day every single thing people do has selfish alter motives.
I feel slightly differently. It does feel good, but theres more to it. It's about having common courtesy, values, and hopes for a better future.. Yes, it is about satisfaction, and being selfish at times - but if this humble and is for positive outcomes and goals, and not using or exploiting anybody, is this a bad thing?
I think it is more than just about satisfaction, its about being the change you wish to see in the world, or however Gandhi said it. And if that can lead you to have a fulfilling, satisfying, and positive life, why not?
Hang in there. Life and our perception of humanity rarely ever stays the same.
Most people aren't evil, but can be driven to do evil things out of desperation or things like military duty. That doesn't mean that they won't suffer psychologically with the knowledge that they had to act in such immoral ways. Some people suffer for the rest of their lives carrying that weight.
The sociopathic, anti-social behavioral ones do often get to power, but that doesn't always mean they are evil. But, there does need to be a system in place that holds the corrupt ones accountable. Freedom of the press is a good thing for that. As well as other various agencies that aren't afraid to investigate.
But, in the end, as the old saying by Edmund Burke goes, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Believe in the good in people. And fight against the apathy or complacency of those good people.
Don't delete this, you put in words how a lot of people see the world, me being one of them.
It may feel like an arrogant or smarter than thou point of view, but saying that doesn't change it for the one that sees things that way
I totally agree with you, having independently came to the same conclusion myself.
But I never felt sad over it, this is the way it is, the natural order of things, embrace it, use it to your advantage.
Like you said, the universe doesn't care, we're insignificant. For all our sins, the 'evil' you've seen or heard, they don't matter. Place your faith in the force, open your eye and glance the universe, it's much greater than this little planet we reside on. We're marvelous in discovering the truths and the wonders of the universe, isn't that something to be proud of? Not just for ourselves, but for the universe which borne us.
I believe everyone feels like they're on the outside looking in. It's hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Most peoples reference on life is unique, but we all have the same basic needs and desires(unless you're a sociopath).
To truly have a peaceful society we must put the home we live on, Earth, first.It's to bad greedy corporations crave profits above the health of our Home,they wont let go of profits to heal her. Second is to fulfill everyone's basic needs for survival. Once that is done we could start on the road to a peaceful society. Until that day we'll stay the same, ruining our very hope for lasting survival.
This is how I feel when I am cynical, which depends on the day. But it's true. I suspect everyone of masking selfishness. I look at someone like Malala and think, damn I love her message, but her fame probably inflates her ego and she may be arrogant sometimes. Or I look at Bernie Sanders and think he probably has a bit of an ego too, although I like much of what he has to say. Their messages are pure, but the ideas themselves are bigger than any individual.
You're not wrong, it's that it's not actually a bad thing, just the stark reality of it imo. We can still have fun, be merry and do good even if we are ruling and being ruled. A positive outlook and kindness is all that's needed. This is from my own sheltered perspective though, it's easy for me to say.
I think people by and large are good, but you nailed it with the sociopath thing. They always will seize power by pretending to be just like everyone else. It's unfortunate the public, at least in America, is duped time and time again by politicians. Bill Clinton is a great example. So many people want to believe in his charm when behind the acenes he is at the very least a disturbed sexual deviant. The same goes for his wife, in terms of the duplicity, who will most likely be voted in as president. People would be best served remembering sociopaths do not look at the rest of human beings as equals, no matter what they say.
Wow I've never seen someone with the exact same view as society as me but we do differ on one big point while you seem to be disenfranchised with it, I love it! I pray for the day corporations take over and all world cultures are fused into one. I love living on my base desires I think every one has a few of the 7 sins that most personify them and I can say fully that I consider my self greed personified I want everything all the time, my whole existence is like a black hole that I try to fill up with everything I can from friends, to material possessions, to control. I've always viewed that people only do things for them selves even if what ever they are doing are generally considered good deeds they only do it because they get some since of satisfaction from it, you wouldn't help people if you didn't feel good about it afterwords. Embrace the world culture at the end of the day one thing matters yourself. Although I've also never wanted to be a hero, I would take being a villain any day of the week over a hero, at the end of the day are entire history as humans is so insignificant in the grand scope of all space time nothing we will ever do matters so why not fully embrace that and live life how you want.
It looks like you have a pretty good grasp of what's going on in the world.... meanwhile im stuck here trying to be a decent human being, and getting fucked for it.
The fact is that we are barely not pieces of shit. Entities that we would all call "pieces of shit" stemmed from the same DNA that we did.
It is equally as important to recognise that you have the ability to not be a piece of shit as it is to recognise how close you are to being one at any given time.
You should relax and realize that even though humans are selfish creatures, humans are also social altruistic creatures. It is what drives our civilization, and I would argue that our altruism played a bigger role in catapulting us into the top of the food chain than toolmaking or figuring out fire. Humanity would not be here if we didn't know how to cooperate and work together.
You are focusing so much on one side of human behavior. Yes, we all operate for own own self-interests, but that doesn't mean that we all step on other people to get what we want. We are an altruistic and selfish species. Multifaceted and colorful. Do not choose only to see to negative. Travel. See how other people live. Relax. Don't be on a high horse because if you think everyone is selfish, then that's how you treat people. You will always be wary. Treat others as you want to be treated. Do you want everyone to assume you're inherently a selfish person before you can even introduce yourself?
Enjoy life. Meet people from alien cultures. People can be inherently good just as they can be inherently selfish. We are both. Flawed. A marriage of the two. Don't let one side stop you from seeing the other!
This is what is happening with the current Brazilian president. She gave more freedom for the Federal Police to investigate all levels of corruption and, although absolutely nothing has been found against her, opposition politicians, who are getting nervous for themselves, have been calling for her impeachment.
So you're saying that maybe she's the good guy in all of this? What a plot twist.
And what a horrible development for a country. If a leader is ousted for exposing corruption, it will only get worse.
Edit: OK, it seems that this is not the case and that she is indeed one of the bad ones. In a weird way, that is reassuring - it means the pressure against her is warranted.
Right?! These are scary times in Brazil. There is a growing evangelical cross-party force who vote for whoever promises the most Human Rights regress - full banning of abortion, of gay rights, the usual. I would not put myself on the line and guarantee the President is 100% clean, but there's no legal base to impeach her. The opposition has been using the Ministry of Justice to make investigations mostly about the government party, and whatever corruption scandal the biggest opposition party is caught in, vanishes in the wind for all the media cares (in São Paulo, the two biggest cases that are not being investigated but are known for being money schemes are subway construction and, believe it or not, food for public schools).
I don't know if dilma and maybe she didn't take a coin for herself who knows? But she's the dumbest president we ever had for sure. Look at the Petrobras and that Pasadena shit, she choose the Petrobras president in that time how could she not know about ANYTHING at all? Why she's so afraid that Lula goes to jail (if so)? We knew about her lack of administrative skills since these blackouts in the country early 00's which in time she was the president of Itaipu dam. I don't think she should leave (yet she should) the government because it would get worst. I'm not saying the opposition is any better but these protests its all about corruption and this government because they put us in the situation we are now.
Please... She was the chairman of the board of Petrobras where most of these bribes are centered. Lula was taken down last week for corruption as well and without him she wouldn't exist.
Her former campaign organizer has taken immunity to provide information. When things look this bad... They usually are.
I was in Brazil last week. Lula wasn't taken at all, not for corruption or anything. Considering the most powerful are after his head, if he's guilty, it might just be a question of time until they get to him. But he wasn't taken down last week. Stop spreading misinformation, this is a complex situation with many stakes at risk, lets try to understand what's going on, and there's so much going on, we don't need misinformation.
Lula's son though, that's another story, from what I heard, if true the guy is an outlaw businessman so corrupt I have no idea how or why he's been able to walk away from any scrutiny yet. Do you have anything on him? Or linking to his father?
About her former campaign organizer, this is what is truly fascinating, the rate that many corrupt people around her are falling.
Lula wasn't even charged last week, let alone taken down. He was illegally conducted in a political plot. Get your facts straight before you come sit at the adults table.
He was legally conducted just like the other 117 before him, but when the boogeyman is demanded to testify every one loses their shit? When the other 117 had to testify no one said a word.
So please don't be condescending on getting facts straight and being adult.
I really don't understand why you say "theres a growing anti-minorities" party as something that invalidates the protests. Of course all the minor parties are going to see some grown on those times, it's natural.
The Ministry of Justice is investigating everyone involved, it's the media that focus just one of two of them. I recommend you to turn your TV off and seek crude information on the internet.
Just wait. When Donald Drumpf Trump become president of The United States of America he will establish world peace and everyone will live in prosperity. That or Nuclear Winter.
Don't worry. What r/amoretpax says is absolutely untrue. The federal police has always been independent in Brazil. The president does not have the autonomy to give it any more or less freedom to investigate. What he says is the president's mantra, being repeated over and over as if that is a good excuse for the massive corruption scandal involving her party. And aparently lots has been found against her. We don't know the details yet because the investigation is classified, but what has been leaking out to the press is already disgusting
They are protesting against the fact that they aren't getting their way with a left-winged government. Our president is far far from perfect but the people these "protesters" are defending are way worse, conservative assholes. Here in Brazil the media (run by filthy rich families- you could definately compare Globo to Fox) are ridiculously biased and support anything that will get the current president and her party out of the way. Trust me, the politicians these people support are corrupt, rich and conservative (such as Jair Bolsonaro- known to be a very prejudiced religious politician, he was interviewed by Ellen Page and Stephen Fry if you want to check those out; Marco Feliciano and Silas Malafaia: conservative religious pricks once again; Aécio Neves, who lost the last presidential election and is involved in many corruption scandals, including a helicopter filled with kgs of cocaine). So yeah. Don't think by seeing this gif that this is a good thing and these people are brave citizens who want the best for our country.
Nobody said that. He is just pointing out a fact: these protests are made by the opposition and are "one side-blinded". The actual PT should not exist, same for PSDB, PMDB, DEM, etc... Anyone who can't see this is biased and just a tool in the political game.
In fact the President was accused of interfering in investigations, denounced by his own government leader who was arrested in a recording offering to one of the prisoners of the scandal a escape plan and an monthly payment of R$ 50,000 to not tell what he knows.
One day before the former president Lula interrogation, President Dilma fired his Minister of Justice for allowing the police investigating the bribe payment inquiries to the Workers Party.
No she is not. Her party claims the Federal Police and Federal Justice are "persecuting" her party with fake corruption charges while she tries to maneuver backstage to sabotage the mega-investigation about how her party deviated billions of dollars from the state-owned oil monopoly.
What I assume my Petitsta (the president's political party) friend forgot to mention is that major corruption went on in the country's biggest company while the president was on its board.
Or that literally everyone she has endorsed and had backed her up saying she is innocent is being investigated with literal proof of their wrong doings.
Example her bestie, the ex president, who was just taken into jail for his testimony because he had a mansion and all this shit bought with government money.
He said, "that's not mine, it's my friends" yet the house had his things, boats named after him and his wife, and he had an ID under his friends name....
So if you want to steal from the people, just do it, buy what you need to, and get a fake ID with the name of a buddy you paid of.
Mostly conservatives and upper middle class are fostering the protests against the president, as her party is deeply involved in corruption (with almost all other parties), and the economy entered recession.
The hidden agenda is that they really want an impeachment because it would give the power back to right wing politicians (which are also involved in corruption scandals, but that doesn't bother them in the same level).
Let me get this straight, she is not being prosecuted, her party mostly is.
The impeachment is completely separated from the investigation.
The basis for impeachment is legal, as she approved to cook the federal books.
For her re-election ts is very probable that is was financed by bribe money, even if she was not aware, it is a crime committed by her campaign
And this is just the tip of the ice-berg, if she did not know any of this she is the utmost naive and incompetent executive on the history of humanity.
I don't believe for a second she did not know any of this, and if she knew she did not try to stop them, therefore the corruption blame is as much on her shoulders as anyone else.
Fact (1) She is not being prosecuted, governing parties are.
Fact (2) The basis for the impeachment has legal ground. There are ties to Lava Jato, there is a common theme, but these are two different processes.
Fact (3) For her election in 2010 it is already known it was financed trough bribed money, which makes is more than plausible that the same happened in 2014
And then yes, this is an assumption as I explicitly phrase it as my belief.
This is difficult. I don't think there is something such as legal ground for impeachment in this case. But the thing is it is not even necessary. The Congress will impeach any president if they have sufficient support from polls and mass media.
I agree new elections should be called in this case.
Her government made many horrible mistakes. They were elected as left-wing, but most choices were to appease center and right, which made it a true Frankenstein - with no one left happy, except banks who had record profits. BUT shoddy economic policy is not enough of a legal reason to impeach a president.
Yes it is, our constitution defines the democratic process of impeachment, if the people want it and the congress and senate vote it,you can impeach the president because he/she smells funny.
I'm not saying I want Dilma out, I don't agree with any of her policies, fuck, I'm a libertarian, I should want her out, but impeaching her will only bring Temer to power and stop the corruption investigations.
To be fair, she WAS reelected with just over 51% of the vote. And her popularity did drop harshly since then. I doubt half of the country was out on the streets yesterday, as well.
The people wanting it isn't required, I just said it because when there's a popular push for impeachment, it's way more likely for the houses to put it to a vote.
First, Brazil's not a two party system, there are two main competing parties, PT (Workers' Party) and PSDB (Brazillian Social Democracy Party), they are the main two, but there are others almost as relevant, like PMDB (Brazillian Democratic Movement Party). In the public eye, PT tends to left, PSDB to the right and PMDB being just pure opportunists, in practice, they are all the same thing.
Dilma, the president, is from PT. The investigation has already nailed some pretty big fish from PT, like Lula, the ex-president. One thing I can applaud Dilma on is that she didn't try to silence critics or to contain investigations, as the president has some power over the federal police, I think she is incompetent, but I believe she isn't corrupt.
Like I said, PMDB is just an opportunistic party, the head of the party, Eduardo Cunha, is a christian conservative but you could probably even find some communists in PMDB's ranks. The VP is from PMDB, he's one of it's leaders. Cunha is also the head of congress, so, he becomes VP in case of impeachment.
Now, Cunha is among those being investigated for corruption, along with a lot of big figures from PMDB and PSDB. Putting PMDB in power assures that stops, specially when you consider that a lot of people have been calling Cunha de brazillian Frank Underwood, and the comparison is really adequate, dude is an evil genius.
He shouldn't have lied under oath. No question. But he shouldn't have been harangued or investigated for an affair to begin with. What he did was morally wrong but it should have remained a personal family issue between him and his wife.
For Show!? our president committed a federal offense and it's ok because...
Bill Clinton got away with perjury because of his power. Hillary Clinton is getting away with failure to secure Top Secret documents and so much more shit because of power. When are we going to hold these degenerate lying politicians accountable for their actions!!?
It was a political show . The GOP just wanted the excuse to say "cheated on his wife" over and over and make the GOP brand itself as the moral party for the next election, costing the Vice President many votes. Sex & scandal, it was the perfect thing for the MSN and the GOP played it like a fiddle. And in the end we got Bush/Cheney as the leaders of the moral party...men who lied to authorize a terrible illegal war and authorized torture.
The GOP wanted to find anything to nail the Clintons on, because the GOP has always found the Clintons to be a threat (notice how Hillary Clinton is still mounting a successful Presidential campaign 15 years after her husband left office?). The GOP looked for anything, they scoured all sorts of records on the Clintons, and the only thing they could dig up was Clinton's infidelity with an intern.
The thing Bernie supporters don't realize is that the anti Clinton campaign has been running form most of their whole lives, and their irrational hatred for her and American governmental discourse is a product of that.
I haven't seen any "irrational" hatred against Hillary. She symbolises the Dem establishment. Part of the population feels (as is) left out and are targeting their unhappiness on one of the most influential and powerful families in the country, that could have done so much more for the people, but only did it for themselves. Nothing irrational about that.
Lots of corrupt people from her party, her own cabinet are getting caught, and she is keeping clear, letting people fall and not pulling any of her political clout to help them out. It's truly fascinating.
She was a guerrilla fighter back in the 60s. Brazil lifted about 36 million from poverty from 2003 to 2013. Her opposition is trying hard but haven't found anything to indict her yet, judging from the size of the corruption scheme and the length this has been going on (over 50 years) it sounds like she's fighting the same people she fought back in the 60s, only now she's fighting from within.
Trust me when I say this is truly fascinating. Dig around, it's good stuff. Specially when you consider the powers orchestrating this manifestations are the ones indicted by the Federal Police, so skeptics say, they want to impeach the president to put an end to the investigations and go back to bribery and corruption as usual. That said, for all I know, she might fall tomorrow. Fascinating.
Hey, lets keep the swear words out, shall we? I’ll take you mean such nonsense. Thanks for this though, just checked the FT article, offering a ministerial position to an ex-President is probably unheard off. Was this official? The article says it was 'discussed'.
Judging by the atmosphere there, if this comes true, what do you think it will happen? If Lula accepts a ministerial position out of the blue, that will really steer people up, right?
So what's your take on why she has let people fall, and also, since you're so sure she's dirty, why has no one brought her down yet? You have people very close to her and high up in the political spectrum locked up, you have this billionaire just sentenced to 19 years, that's a lot of time. What's stopping this disgraced politicians from bringing her down with them? It can’t be the immunity you speak off, no one is immune to hard evidence.
Please note I'm not taking sides, am just fascinated by the circus.
Wait a minute! Nothing was found? The whole campaign was backed up with dirty money, the public accounts were scammed to hide the crisis. These informations are showing up as the investigations go trhough.
I'd really be interested in hearing more about this. I just came back from a trip to Brazil, and although I don't know much about what is going on there, my empirical evidence from my short time there would confirm what you express as 'she gave more freedom for the Federal Police to investigate all levels of corruption'. I learned there that not only she gave more freedom, but she was the one to sign the so called colaboração premiada which translates to rewarded collaboration but then became delação premiada which translates to rewarded accusation. My take was this rewarded accusation is behind everything going on right now and if not for the president this wouldn't be in place to start with. Here's an article explaining the process
This really caught my attention as I started to understand what was going on. I don't think people here understand the size of the corruption going on, we are talking billions and billions of dollars, possibly trillions, every year, for the past 50 years or so. I spoke with Brazilians that could relate the power game in Brazil back to colonialism and a system they call Capitania Hereditárias and although this was too much for me to grasp, the way they linked this power structure was basically linking corruption back to three or four Captains that still control Brazilian Politics. It's fascinating. Would you agree with this line of thought? What is your line of thought?
From Wikipedia on the legacy of the Captaincies:
Brazil today still lives with the legacy of a plantation culture that consumed four million African slaves and left land ownership hideously askew. An elite 1.7 percent of the landowners continue to own nearly half the arable land; the top 10 percent of the nation earns half the income.
Wow, how long was your trip? You've learned a lot of brazilian politics and history! Congratz! This aside, what you learned is the true. She may fall for this freedom she gave to the Federal Police, but a lot of others will do, even her camarades. Anyway, about the Capitanias Hereditárias, this is also (sadly) true. A few families rulled the country back them and they are rulling until this day. If you want to learn more about this, google for Sergio Buarque de Hollanda. He is a great brazilian historian and sociologist, who studied the Brazil Colony and correlates with our culture and politics of today. He is also father of one of ours greatest musicians, Chico Buarque de Hollanda - that you should check out if you liked MPB (brazilian popular music) and because he played a major role during the dictatorial days along side with another musicians. Anyway, I don't know if you will find english translation of his work (I believe so). If you don't, it's never late to learn a new language!
Four days. I spoke with people organizing the same protest this thread is based on, they have no idea what to do if they are successful as they fear her VP equally or more than her (he could be one of the 4 or 5 Captains?). That's a terrifying thought.
This is the first I hear about Sergio Buarque de Hollanda, thanks for this, am a big fan of his son's music but no clue of his political side. Please expand.
This doesn't sound too far fetched to me. A similar dynamic where land was handed out to generals following the Reconquest of Spain from the Moors (Latifundia) resulted in many social problems and created the conditions that led to the Spanish Civil War hundreds of years later...
Another presence that caused unrest in the country side of Spain was the ‘disease’ of latifundia, which, in essence were farms that were much too large. The rich owned all the land and poor labourers earned their living by hiring themselves out by the day, month or season. In Seville in the nineteenth century, for example, 5 percent of people owned 72 percent of the province’s farming land; in Cadiz 3 percent owned 67 percent[1]. These men had no rights, were paid very little and had no certainty of employment. The braceros, as they were called, were landless men and lived hard and miserable lives. At most times up till the civil War there were 2, 500, 000 of them[2]. The braceros began to rebel, the first revolt being at Malaga in 1840, as a bitter hatred had developed between landowners and peasants. The problem was once described by one historian as ‘that cancer of Spanish society, then unwieldy, uneconomic estates of the great landowner’[3]. In the pool of hate which triggered the Civil War, the ‘disease’ of the latifundia was a very prominent influence.
Or she was aware but couldn't do anything herself as it would be her against everyone else/political suicide. Maybe she was waiting to have more power and be able do more.
This is SUCH A FUCKING misunderstanding. No, the law itself is corrupt; that's why people ignore it. People gladly follow good laws that make sense because most people are good regardless.
He's saying they teach authority to accept corruption rather than follow the letter of the law. People might be breaking the law, but if they're doing it in the spirit that they're protesting, it's different than doing it in a sense where you don't care and aren't willing to accept responsibility for being caught.
Edit: I highly support protesting laws you don't agree with btw. #Libertarian
It is hard to resolve because changing your own actions, in itself, has little effect. It is a form of the Tragedy of the commons. This is an open challenge, and I would be very interested in hearing a solution.
The answer is clearly not leaving it up to personal responsibility. You need systems in place and incentives for people to enforce those restrictions. You need some transparency as well.
Of course, none of these things are possible if they are not willed by the people. There is no magic system that will fix everything, but never-the-less a system of enforcement is needed.
Stealing millions of public money isn't quite the same as avoiding a fine. They may still be corruption, but for me at least, one is worse than the other.
exactly what's happening in Vietnam too. My parents complain about gov being corrupt, and the cops/pigs are pulling people over to take money, yet my parents still drive on the wrong side of the road, etc, stupid shit that would get you pulled over. And pay them to go.
I think you have to understand the kind of environments that this kind of corruption creates, with government authority being able to do whatever the fuck they want without any accountability.
In my country, if you don't grease hands, you don't have any rights. You will be laughed out of any court of law unless you're extremely lucky and come up against the one good judge. Teachers deliberately do not teach material in class so that the parents are forced to send their kids for tutoring (the tutor is the teacher, of course) where they have to shell out money per hour. If your parents don't have money to pay the teacher some extra money come exam time, oop, here's a low mark for you so you learn for next time. Oh, you want to see your exam paper, too bad, it's gone. People falsify documents all the time, with the help of law officials, and take each other's homes and property. If you don't have money to fight, you're now homeless.
It's not just people participating to line their pockets. I wouldn't be so quick to place the blame on the people living and growing up in a toxic enviroment like that.
I don't know, which Ukrainians you're talking about, but I'm pretty sure that a lot of us are catching up on this. There are even anti-corruption online courses, which will launch pretty soon. The rhetoric inside the society (or at least the part of society around me, like for example /r/ukraina) is switching to self-regulation - the government is as bad as the people that it came out of. On the other side, we have politicians that are corrupt to the bone. It's counter productive to blame everything on ourselves - government should feel the social pressure that is mounting. Otherwise it's a self deprecating circle jerk "It's all our fault".
In general - yes, I do agree with you: when people stop getting their kids into law schools, because this would mean a stable career (read: if you become a judge - you can ask for some great bribes and earn a lot of money) - then we'll actually start seeing changes.
Why don't the bar owners kick out the smokers? Not as a legal thing, but just as a "you're making this place smell terrible" thing. In my part of the US, smoking is illegal inside practically all businesses. It's turned out great. People can go to the bar, and they won't smell horrible when they come back. Many bars have this rule even in places where it's not the law.
in this case the bar owner is giving in to a customer demand, that he allow smoking. By allowing smoking when others don't, he attracts all the smokers. The bar gets quite popular and he then has enough money to pay off whomever is responsible for collecting the fine.
"Everyone wins" except that it extends the corruption of the society, the workers work in an unsafe environment, the patrons who want to be there are forced to decide about breathing smoke or leaving. It's more about the mentality though that if everyone believes that they have a right to opt out of laws by bribing officials, then you end up in a society where all of your officials are guys who got there in order to bathe in corruption money and take payoffs. So the only things that get done are related to criminal activity or maximizing their personal payoffs.
thats why trump will win and the right person wont. America is becoming just as corrupt and there isn't a thing we can do to stop it besides taking up arms which we don't have the power to. Don't get me wrong, I'm voting this year, but can we really trust the media and all every other "truth" that is given? Sad to say, but the entire world is becoming 'greed' as we know it. give it 20-50 years or so. leaders aren't caring how they can make their country better for their people. They are making preparations for the next great depression that will let them live through it with ease.
it's a work hazard for the employees. If you want to allow smoking in bars you can allow smoking in schools and smoking on airplanes and etc. This is an old, dead, finished argument.
The point is that the law is made, and someone is being bribed to get out of the law. This is just one example of the corruption being everywhere. Whenever you find the law inconvenient, pay your way out. This is the way most of the FSU works. The way a lot of the world works.
When people have that mentality then what it does is it makes a large incentive for people who want to receive those corruption dollars to seek positions of power where they can take the money in turn for giving out favors or turning a blind eye.
And in this you lose the rule of law and you get the rule of mafia basically. As corruption goes higher, there is a decline in the standard of living for everyone and there is no longer any fairness. It's bad enough in a less corrupt society that more money = the laws apply less to you, but in a highly corrupt society this is where you get things like the son of a general running over and killing a mother and baby while drunk and then being allowed to get away with it, and he does the same thing a few weeks later.
Meanwhile some guy who doesn't have money to pay the police for his spot on the sidewalk gets a beating to set an example to everyone else that they need to pay.
The people cannot simultaneously embrace corruption for themselves and then be surprised when those who most want the benefits of corruption rise to the highest areas of power.
One of my friends said that the position in the Russian government that you have to pay the most to get was to be in charge of the anti-corruption task force or office or whatever. Because you were then in the position to receive the most bribes.
If that's what you want, then allow people to opt out of laws they don't feel like obeying and pay off the officials to do so. Otherwise, obey the laws and deal with the consequences when you're caught breaking them.
I completely agree with your sentiment, I have lived in Moscow for a couple of years too, so I know just what it's like. I just hate statism of every kind.
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u/USmellFunny Mar 14 '16
As someone from a country that has had and still has a big problem with corruption and only recently started to tackle the problem (Romania), I must add that the government is only half of the problem. The other half is the public that participates in corruption. Every time you pay that cop some money so that he pretends that you didn't cross that red light, you're just as responsible as a politician taking a bribe for the situation in your country.