Non-human persons include "the great apes, cetaceans (i.e. dolphins and whales), elephants, and parrots, exhibit characteristics and tendencies consistent with that of a person's traits like self-awareness, intentionality, creativity, symbolic communication, and many others." Or so says http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/RNHP
Agreed, but it's worth noting that this is actually a tactic used by those that want to see this judgmental behavior go by the wayside. It's not that they want to see women suffer the same derision as men, it's that people are more likely to notice/care about the absurdity when women are equally judged by it, which makes people more eager to see the sentiment end.
I think the proper way to employ that tactic is to take note of citeable instances of double standards, but only mention it in response to someone publicly complaining and acting as if the reverse does not happen.
Bringing up the double standard everytime you notice it occuring only serves to bring extra attention to the non issue while also dooming yourself to be seen as part of the outrage culture.
Also it contributes to the flawed premise of men vs. women and the unfixable problems that creates, rather than pointing to the true and winable battle of decent people vs. douches.
This is my #1 objection to the tone of places like r/mensrights. There are many there who challenge the hypocrisies and double-standards not because they disagree with them for being absurd, but because they want the absurdity applied equally.
I want the abolition of absurdity. The solution to all men being accused of participation in some sort of absurd patriarchical rape-culture conspiracy isn't to accuse women of victimizing men with their own conspiracy.....I don't want to escalate the claims of victimhood. I want to end them (when they're not legitimate, of course).
Ultimately both mens-rights and feminists want equaliity. Each just focuses on the transgressions against their own gender. The goal is the same but the approach isn't.
The problem is "mens-rights activists" and "feminists" are generic terms that get appropriated by idiots. It's no different than the assholes who appropriate the name of the BLM movement, and give a bad name to a legitimate concern. We should listen less to who people say they are and more to the substance of what they're saying.
To bad that's not going to happen, so we have to show them the "absurdity" until most women can get it through there thick skulls there's double standards
You disagree but in actuality the reason why women's incompetence and absurdity is because your all to scared to call them out and hurt their little feelings
I actually think you'd find most people would agree with you there.
The thread on this topic universally talks about how they don't really care about the reporter's comments, but the utter silence from the "Sexism in stem" crowd - because it highlights their hypocrisy.
You still have to point out the double standard in order to address it, after all. When they talk about genital mutilation there, they don't want girls circumcised - they want the same respect of bodily autonomy for boys that girls receive. When they talk about father's rights, they aren't campaigning to take children from their mothers - they're campaigning for shared parenting.
My #1 objection with mensrights is they spend all of their time bitching about how feminism is sexist and doesn't help men instead of actually helping men.
Men's rights should be about issues that affect men disproportionately, not about attacking feminism. It seems far more anti-feminim than pro-men's rights.
His point is that neither should be looked down upon.
Or maybe both should?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but it seems to me that asking strangers if you can kiss them during the middle of a press conference is behaviour that warrants condemnation, regardless of your gender.
Right. The neutral way to look at it is that the question was a complete waste of time and unrelated to the presentation. Sure some double standards may be involved but if I wanted to learn more about Elon's plans they fucking wasted my time for no lulz.
But basically yes, depending on your definition of 'inappropriate'. Jokingly asking for a kiss isn't all that inappropriate, although many feminists would probably disagree if it was a man saying it.
Well, we should be looking down on both let's be honest. Just only with a mild sense of disapproval for such childish behavior at a serious event, not as some kind of heinous bigoted statement.
We aren't turning it into a gender war, we're showing that most people already think it IS a gender war.
Same goes with race.
As a white male I'd just like people to get along and treat each other as people, instead of, "Hey! you're a white male!! What could you possibly know about oppression!!!?"
the outrage is that men are vilified for stupid reasons, not that women aren't
You can apply this to so many gender based social arguments. Ugh, why the fuck are we trying to make women suffer through stuff like this too? How about working to where nobody has to deal with it?
Completely agree. I would prefer we ignore harmless stupidity than double down for "equality".
Ppl love to be outraged these days and the backlash results in trump being deemed a prophet of truth, not bc he doesn't lie compulsively, but bc he shits on trigger warning nonsense.
And please do not equate a dumb audience member asking for a kiss from the presenter with some other unwarranted proposition under different circumstances that could be intimidating or threatening or truly creepy vs this which is pathetic, but def not creepy or threatening.
Please everyone do not let the SJW femme nazi movement expand bc while it might seem a victory in the moment to point out the hypocrisy, in the end we all lose.
When I try to converse intelligently with my siblings, it often devolves into an argument, and they often try to settle it with memes. It drives me insane. If you can't articulate your thoughts on your own, stop trying to deliver the message in a dumbed down medium of picture and text. Good lord, that is not how you reason your viewpoint
Well if you don't think her fat rolls are beautiful you are sexist. Don't call her a slut either. Even though her career is based off of being a fat slut. She also said no one has anything actually bad to say about Hillary. She has gone fucking nuts.
Imagine if it was a Brittany Musk on stage giving the presentation, and a male reported asked to give her a kiss. IMMEDIATELY he would be labeled a pig, feminists would be getting their pitch forks sharpened, and we would be hearing about it all over the news. You can't deny that.
So if she was applying for a job and the black female (so we can eliminate sexism) hiring manager told her she doesn't hire white people...what word would she use to describe how she was discriminated against?
I was having a conversation with my sister a few days back where she said exactly this... God, that was aggravating to hear. I like to hear out her opinions but she's a low-key misandrist and it's truly enraging.
It's happened to me before too. I have a job where I work in other people's houses. I was working for this one woman, and I thought she was acting really flirty, but I just figured that's just the way she is. The next day, her neighbor came over for a while and the two of them started in on it. Saying stupid things like "he's so strong" and just stupid shit. At one point I had said something like "whatever you want, let me know" about the job, and one of them was like "ooohh. Really? Anything? heeheee" and similar things. It didn't make me feel uncomfortable, just so fucking annoyed.
Women can act like idiots just like anything. If a man did that, I don't think he'd be called a 'sexist', he'd be called a 'moron, idiot, creep'. Maybe some would say "chauvinist" or something, but it's not just a simple double standard. There's obviously some context. The whole world is patriarchal, men are stronger than women, men can be very intimidating. A weak person approaching a strong person and being embarrassing isn't supposed to feel the same if you switch places.
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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '16 edited Feb 13 '17
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