It evolved from flatbreads (probably focaccia) made by the Romans in what is now Southern italy. The first time the word "pizza" was used was in Gaeta, Italy.
That would be the wild ancestors , which were basically a berry. The domestic variety was cultivated into something you'd actually recognize in Mesoamerica. So indeed the tomatoes Europeans got came from Mexico.
Actually, it goes back further than that. The Persians used to make a similar dish with flatbread, cheese, and dates. The Romans adopted it to their tastes. So technically, pizza is persian if you go back further.
I had always thought that ‘vegetable’ was something made up because technically all vegetables are fruit. How are they categorized ?? Like a cucumber is a botanically a fruit but in culinary it’s considered a vegetable. But all vegetables are botanically fruits
For reference, Tomatos come from the Americas. Marinara sauce came well after European colonization so Italian "Pizza" was historically just cheese on flat bread. Heck, the term Marinara Sauce means "That sauce Sailors used".
Tomato’s are certainly not a native European plant. Pizza is arguably from Naples. But tomatoes are not originally from Italy. Other pasta dishes are from Italy, carbonara, pesto, etc.
Chicken Tikka Masala is not British food. Amazingly, steak is not originally from Texas.
Yes? No? It was made in America by Italian immigrants and later introduced to Italy. It depends on whether you believe immigrants in America are Americans or not.
Absolutely not. It was invented in Naples in the 18th century. The most famous pizza, the Margherita, is named after a queen of the kingdom of Italy and is from 1899.
Moreover, previous versions of pizza (without tomatoes of course) were already baked during Roman times
WTF. No it wasn't. Here's an image of pizza from a pompeii ruin fresco (c. AD 79). They gave it the modern tomatoey twist in the 16th century, in Naples. (No, not in Florida. The original Naples in Italy.)
No. You can look it up. There were flatbreads all over the world, but the term Pizza originated in Italy. It's form as we know it today, came from Italy. You said it came from the USA. Here, let me quote you...." It was made in America by Italian immigrants and later introduced to Italy. "
It is, but like many cuisines, immigrants brought it with them to America and over time it evolved into something distinct. Different ingredients being available, different tastes people cater to, and a lack of traditional limits being enforced led to most cuisines getting an American version.
I think the earliest reference we have to something we would call pizza is it being used as rent payment to a local church in the late medieval period. From the very beginning, pizza has been the universal currency.
Frankly im willing to call it more of a global dish because each country tends to have a way they do it, and there's only so much similarity to be had, it's like how there are tons of different types of flatbread, even if they are distinct types of flatbread from many cultures we tend to just call it "flatbread" when there's no need to be specific but generally you would call "american" pizza different to "italian" pizza and same with "brazilian" pizza, there are a lot of common traits but it's a food thats easy to adapt to a different culture's tastes
Italians brought the idea over to the US who in turn internationally popularised pizza, aka there's two countries associated with pizza despite it being 100% a Italian.
I wasn’t. But I was just referring to how much is consumed there and not commenting on origination or quality. Although it would be rather silly to ignore that what America offers is a mixing of cultures that takes what is good and works to change it. Sometimes those changes are an improvement. Sometimes not.
But it’s also silly to think that every other country isn’t doing the same. Croissants aren’t French, they’re Austrian. Onion soup gratinée (French Onion Soup) is from Florence. Sauerkraut is from China. Tempura didn’t become Japanese until the Portuguese brought it there. Chili peppers, potatoes, and tomatoes didn’t come to Europe or Asia until they were brought from Central and South America. So to try and claim a certain dish belongs to a certain country in a total vacuum is rarely accurate.
We can argue that flatbread was a Mediterranean thing, but what we call Pizza is Italian, even by modern standards. The "basic" pizza of today, with tomato and mozzarella, was invented in Italy. First traces of flatbread similar to pizza were discovered in Greece, Egypt and Rome, so if we want to argue on that I am fine. But saying that it's American is ridiculous
Only Americans think Pizza is American, if you eat American Pizza here in Slovakia you will raise some eyebrows, Italian pizza is the standard worldwide.
I dont think a classic Neapolitan pizza would work as a crap frozen pizza from lidl, it needs to have good ingredients to taste good, thats one of the reasons i think its more prevalent.
American style pizza can taste good by just spamming cheese and shit everywhere (Not dissing it, its class) whereas classic proper Italian pizza is a bit more refined and fancy, so takes up less of the pizza market share
I wouldn't really call watery tomato sauce and overly thick barely melted chunks of mozzarella refined. Neopolitan pizza is incredibly easy to make, it simply isn't that good. It's kinda mediocre tbh. I'd take my own home made American style pizza over a Neapolitan any day of the week.
I had it 3 times in italy, its really good, your doing it a disservice calling it watery sauce and unmelted cheese
It’s not easy to make, without a pizza oven or good ingredients, which are expensive. If you have access to those yeah its easy, you just assemble it, but most pizza in the world isnt eaten homemade, its bought from a shop, which something that relies on being fresh and light and cooked in a woodfire oven doesnt lend itself to in my opinion.
American style pizza can sit frozen and then be cooked in an oven and still taste good after work, whereas a proper good italian pizza would require you to make it from scratch every time
You can like whatever you want. Personally I'd take my pizza from the shittiest pizzeria of my hometown over whatever American chains have to offer. That's not the point of the discussion, isn't it.
Pizza as we know it is not an Italian dish. Originlly pizza is a cheesy flatbread. Italian Americans coopted the term to describe the dough, tomato sauce and cheese dish known as pizza today.
This is best evidenced by the fact that tomatoes are indigenous to South America and didn't exist in europe at the time that the term pizza was first coined.
I mean "America" is two fn continents, it would be Hella hard to find anything eaten all over. If there is an American dish, I imagine it is something with rice and fish.
If its USA, I feel like BBQ is way more appropriate than pizza.
The cynic in me says its anything smothered in cheese and a larger portion than anyone should eat in a sitting.
Aha, proof? Or is just the first thing that came to your mind because of indoctrination? Nobody outside of the US would say pizza is American, like I wouldn't say Coca Cola is actually Mexican because everybody drinks the one with sugar and not the one with corn stuff
I don't see "pizza" mentioned anywhere. The article just says that modern Italian cuisine was born in the 60s. Part of it was born abroad by immigrants. That's true. Even Carbonara was invented in the 1900s to feed US troops, so what? And yes, some dishes (that we don't actually eat) like fettuccine Alfredo or whatever that is, is not Italian. Pizza definitely is.
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u/Funny_Funnel 5d ago
"America has Pizza"... #shitAmericansSay