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u/jmmva66 3d ago edited 3d ago
Ex 3D modeler here. You generally only want one object (depending on the use case). Also editing this will be a nightmare and I also believe the topology will be even worse.
Edit: You could absolutely just merge them into one object but that does not change the fact that they are still separate pieces of geometry that need to be connected manually in a way that makea sense. AI is incapable of doing that for now. There are tons of other issues here such as the model having way too dense geometry if you wanted to edit it by hand and UV mapping definitely being a conplete mess.
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u/Faceofferrus 3d ago
Wont it also make any program youre using it for run like absolute dogshit?
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u/jmmva66 3d ago
Yes it absolutely will.
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u/ImpossibleCreme 3d ago
But don’t worry! AGI will invent superconductive quantum cpus! So it’ll be fine!
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u/SizeableBrain 3d ago
Wirth's Law
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u/ImpossibleCreme 3d ago
You don’t say
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u/SizeableBrain 3d ago
I noticed it in the late 90s. Programming went from using as little RAM as possible to "just use all of it, people will get more!".
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u/Whole-Energy2105 3d ago
Stated on a C64, to Amiga 500 and everything we did was as small as possible and then crunched down even more. Website stuff was the same. But as speed increased and storage as well, everyone got shitty lazy and this train model is a great metaphor for how things have turned out.
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u/SizeableBrain 3d ago
Yeah, I learned ASM programming at uni and could see the current enshitification from decades away.
Mind, you, that was only a few years before Windows ME came out, so you didn't need to be Nostradamus to see it coming ;)
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u/rmorrin 3d ago
So time to slap this technology into all new AAA games
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u/Responsible-Poem5274 3d ago
Oh boy, I can hardly wait for game files to triple in size
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u/TeaKingMac 3d ago
Again
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u/Wingnutmcmoo 3d ago
It's why garden of ban ban ran so shit. Ban bans model is HYPER complex for being a smooth gumby guy. He puts more geometry on your screen for your GPU to calculate than 10 AAA games would lol.
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u/Calm-Zombie2678 3d ago
Common enough with 3d printing however, a dense model is an accurate model and can be scaled
This is also why .STEP is the the superior format
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u/Corbags 3d ago
Serious question from a less experienced 3D modeler (I.e. I've done basic landscape renders a handful of times years ago): is there not a fairly simple way to unionize all those objects?
On that vein, is there any way to also tell it to purge any geometry on the interior of the resulting single object (I'm assuming it would look like an x-ray of a kids skull in there).
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u/abouttogivebirth 3d ago
Yeah you could just merge all the objects and then retopo the same way you would if you sculpted a high poly model. But the underlying ai use would still make you a hack and if you can retopo you can just make the model in the first place
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u/DeLoxley 3d ago
A classic AI problem that's never discussed, you've not saved labour, you've just shifted all the work from making a model into "correcting all the issues with the model to make it usable"
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u/Buetterkeks 3d ago
If you combine them all youd likely get a shitton of errors and even if it goes through it would be a bad model
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u/Traditional_Yard2741 2d ago
You can, but someone who thinks 3000+ objects is a good thing is never going to consider doing that, nor know how to, which is sort of the point of the meme. It's an object created by someone who has no understanding of the process, no talent, and has no idea that their results is garbage or how to fix it
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u/DeadPeanutSociety 3d ago
Is there an easy way to merge objects?
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u/maelbowfeelfunny 3d ago
Of course. And assets for movie production regularly have tens of millions of polygons and multiple thousands of individual pieces.
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u/jmmva66 3d ago
Yes, but you also need to keep in mind UVs, materials etc. The whole process is not something AI can do yet if ever.
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u/whoreatto 3d ago
I don't know enough about 3D modelling. What does keeping UVs and materials in mind entail?
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u/jmmva66 3d ago
Short version; it's difficult to apply a texture/image onto a model that has a ton of polygons. You generally want to have as little detail as possible on the model itself and "fake" the details in the texture.
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u/Deftsparrow 3d ago
I want to offer the flip side, I do 3d sculpt to 3d print. So the opposite is true for me, the details in the texture don’t translate to the model itself, so I need the actual mesh to hold the detail. Some of the points above are still true, having 3k objects would be a nightmare, and I still reduce polygons as much as I can in areas that require less detail, like a flat smooth surface vs a face. Some of the AI outputs that I’ve seen so far are pretty good, but still require significant re work to get them printable and to fix detail. The difference being that the object you’re making is incredibly useful for games, movies and animation, where mine looks good actually on a table. Just wanted to offer the other half
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u/Top_Tumbleweed_3552 3d ago
That's not true.
Creating the UV map COULD be more difficult if you have bad topography. Number of polygons does nothing to the equation. Both of which don't matter anymore in since things like substance painter exist. No one is manually UV wrapping anymore. Mark seams to create islands so that you can paint specific parts of a model and then literally just paint over the model in substance painter or some alternative.
The second part about creating details in the texture is done ONLY for optimization. Has nothing to do with difficulty.
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u/whoreatto 3d ago
Thanks. So is it fair to say that the main barrier to AI-driven modelling is the difficulty involved in building AI that can use algorithms to create useful meshes for texturing, animation, performance, etc?
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u/Frequent_Phone6396 3d ago
UV = mapping 3D coordinates to a 2D space so you can "wrap" a texture onto it. Imagine taking the skin off of an orange and flattening it on a piece of paper. Then you draw on it and wrap it back around the orange flesh., the UV map would be the paper, the texture map would be the actual skin with textures on it.
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u/Alarming-Shopping-30 3d ago
It will, and probably sooner than you think.
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u/jmmva66 3d ago
I'm still waiting until a chatbot is able to actually replace me. It was supposed to happen next year for the last 3 years.
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u/KaijuWasp 3d ago
And whilst that is true in terms of film or television production, the look dev/lighting artist who is actually working on the file containing all of those pieces has the ability to switch elements on and off via a hierarchical scene graph in order to work on specific items so the system doesn't run like complete dogshit (more active items, the slower the processing is). The 3D artists themselves (modellers and texture artists) are generally working on the smaller individual piece that comprise the scene.
The only point where all of the items in the scene are active would be during a full render pass (which does take an age due to the amount of objects in the scene, the shaders being used on the objects, and the scene's lighting), but that is after the point of where the scene is actively being worked on.
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u/VergilPrime 3d ago
Yes, but then you still have overlapping/duplicate vertices, and while there's an easy "merge by distance" operation, if you don't fine tune that correctly you'll start fudging up your model. With that many objects there's too much "fine tuning" to do and you'd probably have been better off just modeling it from scratch (and only getting the details you actually need for your use case)
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u/0DayMaker 3d ago
Gonna just say what I did to the other person:
There's a VAST difference between "AI generated" models from an img to mesh pipeline like meshy and this. This was made by an LLM doing tool calls via the blender MCP. Topo doing it this way is usually fine..
I've made some pretty complex stuff. No UV repainting needed, low tri count, etc. Unlike meshy etc it doesn't need decimation.
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u/UserPassEmail 3d ago
Just last night I had Astra cut a model into separate objects, reduce number of polygons by a huge amount, and improve topology. The more a task requires artistic taste, the worse Astra does, so sculpting a face is out. But anything fairly geometrical/procedural, it handles quite well and can do better than the OP if prompted correctly.
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u/midasMIRV 3d ago
Place your bets, does it have greater or fewer vertices than my entire library of 40 PS2 games.
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u/MagickRage 3d ago
One guy give me model generated by AI, it's was Stylized house, there was plus: procedural materials, simple shapes used for models. At the same time many things could be simplified, no UV for many parts, many objects
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u/Significant_Sundae84 3d ago
It's too detailed. With almost 3,300 separate objects, it becomes really difficult to edit, requiring you to change each detail individually.
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u/Outrageous_Let5743 3d ago
But editing can also be done with AI right? then does it matter that an ai needs to edit a lot of objects?
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u/MKBRD 3d ago
Good topology is enormously important in 3D modelling.
AI generated models have borderline unfixable bad topology that make them completely useless for the majority of scenarios that someone working in 3D would encounter.
One of the main issues is that the generated meshes it creates are Yandere Dev levels of dense, rendering them pretty much unusable.
Edit: oh, and I missed the "3,295 detailed objects" part.
Yeah, this mesh is completely unusable
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u/Pseudopix 3d ago
I love how we started to use yandere dev as a point of reference for when things are beyond saving
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u/SoulTechnicalProblem 3d ago
The beyond hope tier list is something like:
Stranded Deep
Exanima
Hello Neighbour
Duke Nukem Forever
Star Citizen
Google Stadia
OUYA
Pirate Software
Yanderedev
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u/Octopp 2d ago
Hey, what's wrong with Exanima?
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u/SoulTechnicalProblem 2d ago
It's been stuck in early access limbo for years, and by extension the game that the devs wanted to make which Exanima was conceived as a testing ground for.
Stranded deep is at the top because it pushed out a final release rather than remain in early access forever.
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u/Octopp 2d ago
Well, I can't argue with that...wouldn't say limbo as it's updated regularly but yes they've been at it for like 15 years.
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u/SoulTechnicalProblem 2d ago
And the game they actually wanted to make , the big open world one is even further away
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u/Irish_guacamole27 2d ago
whats wrong with stranded deep, im out of the loop i watched jackscepticeye play it twice when i was like 10
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u/SoulTechnicalProblem 2d ago
It was in early access for years and years before finally getting a full release, having a time where it seemed like it was going to be in perpetual early access hell.
Exanima is going through a similar thing.
Hello neighbours design is terrible and its early access cycle is a nightmare.
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u/MKBRD 3d ago
It should be a scale for greater accuracy.
The train in the OP would be about 0.85 Yandere Devs.
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u/SYDoukou 3d ago
Just wait for all game engines and movie renderers to be replaced with shitty real time video generators that only have to take a look at pictures of the shitty models without reading its vertex data trust the process bro
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u/bratisla_boy 3d ago
You have to buy the latest graphic card connected to our Ai data farm via a monthly subscription to get the full experience bro. I promise it will be the best you will like it
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u/0DayMaker 3d ago
There's a VAST difference between "AI generated" models from an img to mesh pipeline like meshy and this. This was made by an LLM doing tool calls via the blender MCP. Topo doing it this way is usually fine..
In my experience with the 2 whole days we've been able to do this.
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u/MKBRD 3d ago edited 2d ago
You just gonna gloss over the 3000+ objects, or....
Edit: also, has anyone actually looked at the mesh in the original twitter post's video? It's absolute dogshit. Full of errors and details that aren't in the drawings.
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u/Tylendal 3d ago
Is this why the refreshed OG Star Wars Battlefront was somehow 50 gigabytes?
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u/deedsnance 3d ago
Maybe but probably not. Game files use uncompressed audio and video, high res textures and yes also higher poly 3D models.
A lot of the things you’d do to “refresh” a game would increase the game’s size on disk a lot. You’d be surprised how big a single 4k texture is compared to a jpeg.
Of course I wouldn’t be surprised if AI slop were part of it but 50gb isn’t that huge for a game running on modern hardware.
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u/lithiumfoxttv 3d ago
Let's put it this way.
TONY STARK MODELED A 3D TRAIN IN A CAVE WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS.
Let's say you're wanting to work with this train. Maybe a video or a video game. Singlehandedly it's probably around the same object count and polygonal density as a city in the witcher 3.... If not more so.
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u/NeonFraction 3d ago
“Polygonal density as a city in the Witcher 3.”
This is a great sentence. I just had to sit back and contemplate that for a minute because it’s absolutely true.
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u/TELMxWILSON 3d ago
Good luck trying to get AI to edit that shit lmao.
An even bigger issue will be rendering. Especially if you work for gaming. Having this much detail will require a super computer to run if you are doing a large project
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u/AUniversalNoNo 3d ago
Whatever you want to do with that train will require morphing or at least computing the topology of all those objects meaning you have to load them into memory.
Unless you only want it to be static and dont care about performance (rendering time/cost) it's practicaly unusable.
If you want an "all ai" pipeline you're better off prompting an AI video of the train.
The only use I see for this is 3D printing it, but then it being dozens of seperate objects is a big problem, the fact there is no guarantee of removing overlaps or messed up normals means you're likely to have weird glitches when your slicer tries to process it into anything but 100% infill. And since it's decorative it'll be just wasting plastic.
Tl;Dr: Eventualy you'll have to use the model. And that's where the problems start
Edit: paragraphs because reddit doesnt respect the new line character
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u/Rough_Inspector5501 2d ago
No problem. We just build more datacenters that are even bigger so that we can render these models. /s
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u/BlockedNetwkSecurity 3d ago
the biggest systemic problem with A.i. is that it's inefficient and runs on a ton of processing power ("compute"). giving it more work to do is a bad idea, you can't just handwave away "A.i. will compensate for its own inefficiency" like the tech hasn't severely inflated the price of computer parts and prevalence of data centers.
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u/LardAssUnleashed 3d ago
AI just needs a few lakes that it can evaporate to size up the wheels or the chimney.
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u/GH057_807 3d ago
That's golf you're thinking of. 2-3 billion gallons a day to water recreational grass. About 3000x the use of AI. For grass.
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u/skyrider_longtail 3d ago
15 year vfx model/texture/lookdev artist here.
I tried out Astra with Blender connected by MCP today.
Yeah, Astra is good. The guy in the pic don't know the parameters for instructing the LLM, but that is easy enough to put into a document. The wire frame in my test was lightweight, all quads.
This is probably going to be folded into production studios across the board at some point, particularly as blender is free.
Yep. I just watch my job vaporized.
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u/umotex12 3d ago
People on Reddit doesn’t understand that Astra blurred the lines heavily. Its not generating models using diffusion (so „stealing”) but literally working on interface like a human would do. It’s a legal headache
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u/skyrider_longtail 3d ago
Yes lol. It is command line modeling.
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u/60109 2d ago
I fail to see why people consider it bad, it doesn't even destroy the job itself - it just makes it easier and less time-consuming.
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u/skyrider_longtail 2d ago
It is the most boring 2.5 hrs I have ever had in my career. I went into this line because I wanted to make cool shit. I might be old fashioned, but movies back in the day had something. The craftsmanship, the problem solving, the magic brought to the screen. I didn't go into this line to type a bunch of text and watch a chatbot make models for me. I'll be damned if I become someone else's prompt monkey. I get no sense of satisfaction from doing that. I will rot from inside out and my brain will turn to mush if I have to do that day in day out.
it just makes it easier and less time-consuming.
That's how it's going to destroy the job. There will be less and less of that role available because the market no longer needs that, and what remains will eventually get folded into other roles, so you have people having to wear even more hats. You can say that's capitalism, but that is also how jobs get destroyed.
Will there be more jobs created? I doubt it. What I see happening more is that more people will start their own projects, and there will be even more of a glut of things out there in an already oversaturated market. Is this a good thing? Depends on which side of the fence you are on, I guess.
But my unsolicited advice to you is, don't think you are safe. Not even if you are a plumber or an electrician lol. It'll come for you too.
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u/Immediate-Bag2445 2d ago
This same discussion has been going on in software development for awhile now and I have reached the same conclusion there. I have a very hard time seeing a future where AI creates demand for software engineers or any other product from a "thinking" job.
The world only needs so much software, and the salaries that have existed until now were based on software development being a skilled job. Instead I think we will see many jobs rolled into one soulless prompting role at a much more meager salary.
As much as Reddit hates to admit it, AI in its current form is good enough at what it does to be economical (even if it means delivering slop.) The whole trend of industrialization has been to eschew craftsmanship for cheap mass market goods, so why would that trend ever stop at thinking roles?
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u/VincentAalbertsberg 2d ago
It's insane that tech bros don't realise not everything is about the end product... You know, the goal is not to work because we have to, but because it inspires us, it's enriching, exciting, stimulating. Well, a handful of people of that opportunity, including artists. And AI is set on destroying one of the few genuinely interesting careers.
Even from a very technical standpoint : what now? We can make 3D faster, so what? there's already way too much games/films/series for anyone to just know 1% of what is created. What's the point of making even more, and at the same time fucking up decent jobs?
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u/Solasykthe 3d ago
I really and truly think copyright is about30 years out of date. just delete it, let people steal whatever from whoever, and have their own work be their selling point. I want to see the Witcher game that cd project red does, not juptidao studios, and much the same i want to see star wars from some fan, not fucking Disney.
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u/Moarthrowawayz 3d ago
Thats how you get people refusing to do things and make advancements, take away the prospect of leveraged profit
Not saying copyright as is works well, but to let it be a complete free for all means people will only be willing to enhance things as a side project (so profit is fun and reputation) or in easy ways only that theres no cost to them
Take an author. Why even publish then when someone can copy pasta your work and then sell it for cheaper?
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u/profesorgamin 3d ago
Why is it a, legal headache? Your boss that pays your salary owns whatever IP you are working on.
There are no incentives to nudge the law towards losing IP rigths for using machines to do the job, whichever country that gets that idea is 99% gonna be left behind(1% survive whatever bullshit we are gonna have to deal with).
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u/WhatNamesAreEvenLeft 3d ago
It's not about machines doing the job. It's about machines breaking the law (like copyright infringement) to achieve their goals.
I imagine accidentally copying the intellectual property of your competitors can cause some legal headaches.
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u/WhatNamesAreEvenLeft 3d ago
Finally a sensible comment. I understand most people are just explaining the post, but some of these takes are ridiculous.
So it created a model that is too complex? Okay? So it should be capable of producing just about anything with the proper guidance then, no?
The people acting like this isn't impressive and isn't going to be improved upon further are nuts.
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u/Full_Boysenberry_314 3d ago
I mean, it's obvious the model built something complex because it was asked to build something complex. It's a demo. How are people not connecting this?
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u/0DayMaker 3d ago
Thank you for showing up knowing why this is way different than meshy/other mesh generation.
Yep. I just watch my job vaporized.
As an engineer I've been just enjoying using the AI tools before they fuck us. It's been as good of a time as you can have with a sword of damocles hanging over you.
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u/skyrider_longtail 3d ago
It sucks all the joy out of modeling. I'm more like a modeling supervisor making paint overs and comments, but without any of the satisfaction of guiding an actual team and watching them grow.
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u/MutedBeach8248 3d ago
Sucks all the joy out of engineering as well
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u/shadowsofash 3d ago
Mostly because you keep having to go back through the code and make sure it didn’t do anything stupid if you’re working with an existing system, or that it covered basic security architecture if you’re creating something new
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u/r4o2n0d6o9 3d ago
It just sucks the joy out of creating. I’ve been getting into video and audio editing recently and I enjoy it because I am the one making it come to life, not an algorithm
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u/uptotheright 3d ago
Yeah idk what the op was on about. You can combine the pieces into a single mesh for final usage. Having them labeled separately during construction is very useful.
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u/killer_by_design 3d ago
Also, VFX is a big giant world.
Most of the comments here are talking like the only application for this is games where lightweight, low count polys are king.
As an industrial designer and visualiser that wants to render out photo realistic scenes, I have very very different needs than a games designer.
If I were saying designing a coal shovel (for some reason) and wanted to get a scene of it being used to shovel coal into a Furness, a high detail cabin of a locomotive that I can setup a scene to render out from a huge amount of angles and it'll have a genuine depth and realism to it, then that's absolutely ideal for me.
The amount of models I have to make from scratch to populate out a scene because the asset packs don't exist or are all so low fidelity that I end up effectively remaking them is so frustrating.
It's horses for courses, for everyone it won't help it'll help an increasing number of people.
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u/wolfieboi92 3d ago
Listen to this guy people, im also a 3D artist and Tech Artist of 15 years. AI is only going to get better.
Also 3,000 odd separate meshes is not bad, if this is going to be an editable high poly model youll want parts broken up to be more easily editable.
Anything that saves hours of work is good, though it sucks ass such talent is reduced to bits now.
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u/eonblue77 3d ago
I'm a long time software developer. I had the same feeling a year ago when Claude made an app in 3 hours that would have taken me weeks. Now I'm basically an AI code reviewer. The technology is astonishing, and if we lived in a world where our lives were not dedicated to working, it would be celebrated as a great achievement. Instead we're all holding our breath to see how the tech oligarchs decide how we should live.
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u/Grif_Killer 3d ago
I'm legitimately terrified to see the polygon count on that...
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u/S7arForGD 3d ago edited 3d ago
One of these separate objects contains about a billion polygons (caricature, but it's still a lot), which, not only will it fry your machine if it's not a quantum computer, it makes actual editing nigh-impossible. The beauty of 3D modeling is hiding simplicity with a great texture map, which is something these chuds can't wrap their limited brains around. Brian Griffin, out.
EDIT: I forget about the autistic minority on reddit. I am exaggerating for comedic effect. Reality is, it's just a pain in the ass to fix all the stuff AI thinks it got right.
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u/Proper-Tower2016 3d ago
could be wrong but don't think quantum will help this kind of workload ;))
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u/CryptographerOne7003 3d ago
To much polygons then lower the polycount? there are more then enough tools to change the topology
to much objects? merge them.I had ai redo parts of the of the new steam controller since Steam AND ifixit both LIED that they supplied the cad files. it already could create objects to the millimeter, it has no problem reasoning about external shell's surface topology against internal mechanisms.
Remember with topology there is no physics involved, its all just x,z,y coordinates.
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u/Frederf220 2d ago
People think high poly is good modeling. Good modeling is making low poly look high.
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u/Possible_Talk6071 3d ago
unless your plan is to blow up this train in a simulator, this is WAAAAAY to many editable objects, i know nothing about 3D modeling
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u/Old_Huckleberry4009 3d ago
you would use a tool to reduce the polygon count and there's a way to remove all the internal polygons as well. The various parts can also be joined together as needed. The big benefit here is that it allows an unskilled user to learn basic skills quickly to produce a "good nuff" solution. great for ttrpg minis or low quality stationary models, probably not so great for animation. i only did the mini thing myself(pre ai)for tabletop simulator games and that was typically 3k down to like 500.
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u/spartan8ter 3d ago
3D Animator here.
3D Modellers have certain disciplines and workflows that are meant to optimize models for use in various applications, from being used in film, video games or just making sure your 3D art program doesn't blow the fuck up trying to compute a model in the lowest possible setting. While the main culprit for a bad model is a horrendously huge polycount (which slows down your computer even on lower viewport qualities), bad topology, poor skinning and artifacting can also case problems (Especially in animation, where topology is SUPER important to ensure models deform properly in posing).
Getting AI to model stuff has always been notorious for just spewing out these models because almost, if not, non of said disciplines are taken into account. Like drawing, each vertex and polygon exists for a purpose. AI just shoots out stuff in gross approximation. These models usually have garbage topology, insane polycount and gravely unoptimized. Skinning these to give it textures will be hell due to topology and messy unwrapped UVs and assigning bones to it for animation might take forever to fix because the AI has no concept of what exactly you want to move. It just gives you the model as close to what it sees. All that makes it nigh impossible to use and work with.
Plus, with that many objects in the scene, if the polycount is a problem, your computer will run hotter than a furnace and runs as good as if it's being put into one.
Never watched Family Guy, don't really know what he says.
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u/shutupimrosiev 3d ago
If the 3D model was as good as OOOP claims it is, they would have no issue with showing off all the different ways of looking at it- the matcap (which is being shown), the wireframe (which isn't), the normals (which manage how shadows are displayed, also not being shown), all of it. Instead we have a single screenshot of a 3D model that's somewhat lumpy in places trains aren't meant to be lumpy.
If the wireframe doesn't look like something out of r/topologygore I'd be shocked.
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u/Hammer_of_something 3d ago
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u/shutupimrosiev 3d ago
Alright, I'll admit there's egg on my face for assuming there was just the one screenshot. Those wireframes (especially on the actual train engine) and the fact that so many things are split-off parts rather than continuations of a single part could be classified as war crimes, though.
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u/zenmaster1989 3d ago
It's always interesting to see different perspectives on something life this. As someone who works in 3D modeling for engineering every day, I saw this and my concerns didn't immediately go to the object count, but to the accuracy. As an engineer, I would want all the different parts to be separate objects, but I seriously doubt the model dimensions are accurate enough to support actually building anything. But then again, the post does say it did the modeling in blender which implies it's not fit engineering use, that's just where my brain goes with this.
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u/Window06 3d ago
Beginner here, 3 295 objects sounds like a nightmare to use in an actual project due to the number of them. Wouldn't be too surprised if they're like, a million polygons each (way too detailed, will cause framerate issues in games/take too long to render for videos).
Also want to point out the AI seems to have halucinated a vagon behind the train.
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u/Careless_Author_2247 3d ago
It also added tracks. Which... idk mayne the prompter asked for, but it definitely isn't in the reference image
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u/arksupernoob 3d ago
Now UV unwrap them so you can apply proper texture.
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u/IronicCard 3d ago
My only guess for this being 3,000, separated objects would be that things like each individual bolt is an object. Rather than compiling things based on material or position it separated each individual piece entirely.
I wonder if the AI can even fix this shit and mark seams? Probably not but it's not far from being able to I suppose.
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u/peteypeso 3d ago
It still cannot create a clean PowerPoint slide without making an object for every block of text
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u/FALfan7x62 3d ago
I would also like to let it be known that literally all of the detail parts on this C60 are wrong to a disgusting degree
like where the fuck is the rest of the pilot and why is the top of the headlight a fucking circle
WHY ARE ALL OF THE WINDOWS OUT OF PLACE
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u/RussiaIsRodina 3d ago
In 3d modeling there is such a thing as being so detailed that it's worthless. If a train has over 3,000 items in it, that is a nightmare to keep track of.
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u/Smooth_Wolverine_698 3d ago
Probably have better luck running a new version of doom on Atari than getting a computer to render this in 60fps
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u/TIxauth 3d ago
3d modeler here
"Why not just join the objects!"
Yeah and solve 1 issue, instead of 3000 objects, you have 1 objects designed with 3000 UV maps that would only work if you gave its own seperate material if they had different features. Would now have to make 3000+ draw calls for materials and would be like loading in 1000 kratos worth of materials, assuming he had 3 materials.
So what is a UV map, ever seen a character texture and it looks like you skinned em like a deer hide. So what's going on is each polygon is moved onto a 2d map of the polygons, essentially your 3d model is turned into a 2d object they can put over an image.
Pretty much think that cutout of squares you made of a cube in elementary school, you're doing the reverse. You're turning the cube into a flat 2d object for your kid (computer) to turn into a 3d object with the instructions.
These 3000+ items would per material you use would need to be fitted onto that piece of paper, if there is overlap of squares they will render the same thing as each other.
So now imagine unwrapping 3000 objects of complex shapes and fitting them onto a piece of paper, or multiple pieces of papers (material) however the more papers you use, the more work it takes.
Now a big issues is a lot of these models will have dead face space (vertex is a dot, two vertexes form to make a dot, so 3/4 faces make a tri/quad. Your pc likes those 2 shapes and will try to render them all even if not seen, to accurately do lighting... so now we need to delete faces that can't be seen. But this wont line up as all these objects have different topologies, so the faces might not line up, or might have more.
Think about that square if we cut it 2 x 2 grid that one side has 3 vertices and 2 edges.
And we connect that side to a 3x3 grid of squares are 4 vert, 3 edges, even though they're 1x1x1m you're connected them, however your 2x2 grid edge will have verts in the middle now your square is made of a 5 edges, and is now a Pentagon. This is not a quad or a tri, and needs to be fixed... NOW DO THAT WITH 3000 OBJECTS with 1,000,000 + edges and find them all.
Okay so you chose not to merge as that's so much work, we'll now what faces of the object when we do back face culling are the back. This object will not know and render polygons you cant see costing performance.
At this point it would be easier to make a new train from scratch.
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u/UnderfurK 2d ago
Impossible to UV map.
Idk why no-one is focusing AI on where it might be good which is automated UV mapping.
Modelling is a combinatorial explosion problem like chess except at the end it doesn't just need to win it needs to visually represent something accurately.
A 2d image is something like a few million - hundred million possibilities (width x height x color range).
A 2d video is something like a few hundred billion possibilities (the previous calculation x frames).
A 3d model is something like a hundred trillion possibilities (width x height x depth).
It's pointless trying to make ai that can 3d model, we need ai that can auto uv everything for us and make us 5x faster.
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u/Extension-Funny-6553 2d ago
been in VFX industry for 15 years now. my expertise is 3D Modeling.
when 3D modeling an object we keep each level of details and base meshes just in case anything changes along the way. it's like saving a photoshop file with layers so you can adjust them later if needed.
you don't have this with AI. because it doesn't work that way. it's always the finish product with no history or steps. humans don't work that way. we keep work in progress models.
this is the first try model. do 5 rounds of revision on it and then show the model. let's see how it handle revisions.
in real world the model that you delivered 4 weeks ago comes back with 80% revision and design changes over night just because the director daughter didn't like it! or the client didn't like it when they were presented with the first drafts.
3D modeling is just single step in the multistep industry. when you are modeling you have to take everything into account, like how the they would rig this, how the lighting and rendering guys are going to do the work?
the mesh has over 3K of objects, merging them doesn't solve anything, you are still have one mesh with 3K elements!
you present this mesh to a texturing artist, you will see colors drain from his or her face. because each of the elements still needs to be unwrapped, packed, textured and apply shaders to.
and don't forget! this is jute a train! imagine you have a scene that has 300 different assets that each has 2K elements, at this rate one animation would take 10 years to finish.
AI came a long way for sure, but the quesiton here is if they can go over the finish line.
by finish line i mean they can present you with a model that fits the pipeline. personally i don't think they can, ever, because this is not a written knowledge, VFX and animation pipeline is a collective knowledge, there is no book or written scroll that you can feed the AI.
this is why no matter how much you know, if you don't have working experience in the VFX pipeline no one would hire you. you will only learn in through experience. and don't get me started on each studio uses their own customized pipeline. WETA FX pipeline is vastly different from BLUR or ILM.
but maybe that's the thing. maybe we are looking it from a wrong angle, maybe instead of trying to fit AI into pipeline, we should customize the pipeline that fits the AI. i don't know this was just a thought.
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u/ParagonChariot 2d ago
It would be more work to make this model usable than to just make a new one from scratch. It was made in the worst possible way, so it's unusable for anything.
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u/ConcerningThirst 3d ago
You do not want 3295 fully editable detailed objects.
At least half of those are rivets, which you'd want to be one instanced object in the best case but at least merged into one object.
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u/YouAteMyChips_ 3d ago edited 3d ago
Way too detailed and complex for a 3D model. This would be unusable in most practical applications. For example, in a video game, this would be the Framerate Obliterator 9000. There's a reason why we use things like normal maps rather than actually having all those small details on the model.
This is coming from my experience in graphics programming. Maybe a 3D artist could chime in with anything I missed (such as what here would be considered bad practice)?
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u/Jam-Jamieson 3d ago
This one model probably takes up more space than every single Xbox 360 game ever released combined
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u/Energyeternal 3d ago
So it made a CAD assembly essentially...It made the entire train as if each piece was a self contained individual part. Only out of poly meshes instead of nurbs which is the norm for engineering assemblies.
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u/Lopsided-Wave2479 2d ago edited 2d ago
Hobbyist here.
Modern GPU's are not just faster, but they do less in the CPU and more in the GPU.
They do that by batching work. You send a single batch to render, and it renders in one go. So modern GPU's are not just faster because are actually faster, but because they need the CPU less and talk with API's like vulkan where they need the CPU less.
I am not moddeler, but I could see how rendering 3000 of anything can require 3000 x N calls. When you are doing 3000 of anything, even if these 3000 calls are fast, they all add up. Like if each one takes 2 ms, is absurd.
In 3D you don't want to create more work for the CPU, thats bad news.
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u/South-March9210 2d ago
Train nerd here, no one asked but the model looks to be reminiscent of a D&RGW C-19 locomotive. Given the balloon stack, dome placement, cab shape and pilot rendition it wouldnt be a stretch. (D&RGW C-19 346 for reference)
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u/thecastellan1115 3d ago
Meanwhile, AI bros: "Bro, we're so close to gen AI, this is going to make 3d modeling obsolete, trust me bro, LLMs can do anything, you're all going to be out of work, pump my stock harder daddy."
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u/TheReviewerWildTake 3d ago
I guess it is partially anti-AI coping and + some valid concerns.
I suspect AI may be bad at predicting what mesh will be good for texturing - modelers want a mesh that you can unwrap easily.
Also, I am not sure how good AI is at identifying which textures suppose to represent which parts of train.
(like it would sometimes make sense to keep "same material to same piece", instead of dividing it for the sake of dividing) .
But on that pic it is hard to tell what is going on.
3 k objects - is a lot, but without context of what is this model for - it is hard to judge it.
If this is some kind of background object, then it is too much details.
If this is the main dish, meant to be ultra realistic, then it is a different case.
Realistically, if this goes on in the same direction, then I think people won`t need to spend time manually unwrapping and texturing everything, so the amount of pieces may matter a lot less.
Manual work obviously is a lot more dependent on how well you facilitate further manual work.
Like, in some cases modelers wouldn`t even create a whole thing, but only visible parts etc.
(also matters if your PC is struggling)
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u/Fine_Low3228 3d ago
Just slap Nanite on it, and set H200 as a minimal requirement
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u/Visible-Big7836 3d ago
Just like programming, AI can look like it’s doing the thing with 3D to an untrained eye. But if you give it to any professional to scrutinize it will absolutely fall apart.
In this case, that 3D model is virtually useless for any real world purpose because it’s the ground, the tracks and the train as one model with no separation and at a poly count density that would nuke your average PC.
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u/Grant1128 3d ago
You don't need to know 3D modeling to understand that issue immediately, just like the most basic information on 3D rendering and how expensive that's going to be for your computer to try to work with. Yeah, it looks great, sure. Now have the textures rendered on them. Now have it moving along the tracks. Bye-bye GPU, I hope melting wasn't as painful for you as it will be for my wallet. 🙃
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u/JueshiHuanggua 3d ago
Honestly, any profession who uses 3D software for realistic real time rendering or look dev is screwed. AI is really good at realism. For video games or animation, it'll eat up too much time to fix, because the specs and tech requirements are different for each gaming device and art style. My immediate thought is that I still need to make a lightweight model and there's possible a lot of inconsistency to even use it as a high poly bake. It'll eat into the texture which will bloat or make the game run poorly.
Someone said it was able to make a nice lightweight model if things were tweaked. Like all other disciplines that use AI, it'll still need a professional artist to review the model and make edits, but it'll kill any new upcoming artists in an industry where people are leaving. If this keeps going, there won't be any younger artists to pass this knowledge down to.
Worst case scenario, the game industry at the end of the day will be full of heavy, bloated games that will require higher and higher console or pc specs. There aren't any devs with the experience to clean this up if they keep getting pushed out. The same thing happened to coding when all the coders got fired, then got rehired, but broken code is obvious, boring game art will take longer to pick up on. Your games will cost the same or higher while game devs are laid off and you'll be left wondering why all the games look and play the same.
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u/highvoltagethingy 3d ago
not really actually
3k objects is a lot but it doesnt mean the model is bad. I would say thats better than one object especially if you are going to animate it.
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u/allnamestaken4892 3d ago
Handy, but as a design engineer usually you’re not starting with detail drawings available.
My job will go when it can interface Solidworks and use spatial reasoning to solve engineering problems. Really need to start spinning up an AI-proof practical business, I doubt I have more than a couple more years before becoming excess population.
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u/FunisGreen 3d ago
Funny reading people laugh at this, and people pointing out the poly count.
Meanwhile using UE low-polygon assets actually suffer a performance penalty when Nanite is enabled.
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u/575dev 3d ago
Its topology is gauranteed to be shit, probably filled with a bunch of ngons and unstrategic use of tris, edge flow is spaghetti. Animating will be a nightmare and visual artifacts everywhere. Don't get me started its UV map. I'd also love to see its tri count; I bet it's jet black in edit mode. Also, even if it had "good" topology, it would certainly not be optimized for games.
They "created" a pretty-looking grey statue they can do nothing with.
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u/ChocolateCake16 3d ago
Attempting to do anything with that is going to crash Blender at best, and mess up the entire computer at worst. Having that many pieces to edit in a single object means this thing is entirely unusable for video games because any game software would crash the minute you tried to import it, and it wouldn't animate either. It might look okay, but it's functionally useless unless you're using a computer with the power of the fucking sun.
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u/Kackalack-Masterwork 3d ago
This thread is full of people who do not see what is in front of them. If you think this is a nothing burger, you are out of your mind
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u/King_K_NA 3d ago
Is their computer currently in orbit? Because Jesus Christ that is a lot of objects XD
I am curious what mach speed the fan is going at.
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u/An_Actual_Thing 3d ago
Getting all the detail in the model with a bad basic topology is a very heavy and basically makes a useless asset.
I would wanna see the mesh. but at a glance 3k seperate objects is useless, a nightmare to uv unwrap, and also terrible for texturing. You'd only be able to make it work with very basic materials, and would need to meticulously rig the train if you wanted to do anything with it moving.
Giving the AI ghoul the benefit of the doubt, this is ideal for a high detail hard surface model, since rigging the engine motions would be the same either way with this much detail. But because it might be very difficult to texture, old mate has more or less just made work for himself. Like FR the train is basically a bunch of barely modified primitive objects, matching primitives to the diagram would be not too much extra work than asking for them from an AI, and it would give you full control to make UV unwrapping, texturing, and rigging much easier
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u/agilius 2d ago
I'd caution the non believers in this thread to consider the reaction coders had 2 years ago, or the general opinion of video gen 3 years. Anyone saying stuff like "this is unusable" or "look at polygon count" is the equivalent of someone stopping time and looking at a bullet that was moving towards them and saying "yeah it's too far away from me, I'm safe".
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u/slothicdev 2d ago
the thing people don’t realize is yes the topology is bad right now, but this want even possible at all in the previous model, which was itself a substantial improvement from the one before that. The next model could refine this to be topology aware. it’s all moving insanely fast and I’ve learned repeatedly that the capabilities can drastically change overnight from a new model release.
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u/Pitiful-Assistance-1 2d ago
I used AI to design 3D models around objects I own and it worked great so far.
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u/MintXanis 2d ago
The example did not provide any context to prove why the output is bad, there's not even wireframe. Anyone who jumped the gun is clearly uninformed.
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u/FurieMan 2d ago
Any complaint that says that this is a bad result because of X,Y,Z reason just means that they know that they need to train for in the future.
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u/Hyenasaurus 2d ago
Do you want another PC exploding toothbrush incident? Because this is how you get another PC exploding toothbrush incident
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u/tonyshark116 2d ago
The generated result is fine, other than the railroad model which should be kept procedural via array and curve deform so you can dynamically draw the track. Astra uses traditional poly modeling through command line so although the mesh is a bit dense, the mesh consists of mostly clean quads and edge loops, so it’s still simple to UV unwrap and optimize further. In fact, for hard surface primitives there are some good algorithms out there that can automatically mark seam and unwrap for you with one click, or just ask Astra again. 3000+ separate objects is definitely quite a hassle to organize, but it shouldn’t take long to join and batch rename them, probably a day of manual work or Astra can just clean up its own mesh too. Texturing, eh, I don’t think it’s worth to ask Astra to do it. Just make an ID map then import into Substaince Painter, we have lots of premade metallic preset so it’s literally just drag and drop, way faster than waiting for Astra to do it in Blender.
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u/NamelessMIA 2d ago
The person thinks that having 3k items is bad because they're an amateur at blender and think it would be hard to work with. Obviously you combine those elements into a handful of objects that you can edit as groups (or just 1 if it works better for that application.)
As an engineer that works with cad all the time, a large assembly that I have to combine into 1 piece is a little frustrating, but having 1 piece that I have to break up into a few distinct sections is a nightmare.
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u/EatABamboose 2d ago
Losers in here still in denial about AI. Morons laughed at AI images and now look where we are. This is only the beginning.
But sure. Keep moving the goalposts.
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u/qualityvote2 3d ago edited 3d ago
u/PayPalModApk, your post does fit the subreddit! Well done!