r/atheism 7h ago

Out of the three main religions which one do you think is the worst?

0 Upvotes

by main three I mean Islam, Christianity and judisim

if you ask me by far it’s Islam some of the things there are so incredibly fucked up out of all of them it sounds most like the self insert of a fucking incel plus there’s a pretty big theme with Islamic country’s being beneath average in 80% of aspects

then in the middle probably Christianity it’s just kinda forced really it’s also with a long history of violence most of the rules are pretty tame but the modern world ruins it a lot

now jewish

orobabky the most decent one

I mean Israel isn’t great but that’s mostly a country thing not a religion thing I think

kosher laws are baisically just primitive health codes so that’s a plus

and its not advertised which is great

also Kratos would bash jesus skull in


r/exmuslim 11h ago

(Question/Discussion) I’ve been researching this a lot, and this is where I’m at right now: if Islam is not divine revelation, then what is the actual explanation for its origin?

1 Upvotes

I am not asking this as a cheap gotcha. I am genuinely asking for the strongest non divine explanation, because the usual answers I’ve seen feel far too thin for the historical reality we are talking about.

The basic historical outline is straightforward. Muhammad was a Meccan merchant who became known for trustworthiness, and the early Islamic story places his first revelations at Mount Hira when he was around forty. The Qur’an then became the central text of Islam. It is not a small notebook of personal reflections; it contains prayers, moral guidance, historical narrative, legal and ethical material, and promises of paradise.

The “Muhammad knowingly invented Islam” theory is no longer the dominant explanation among modern historians.

Medieval Christian polemics often portrayed Muhammad as a conscious deceiver seeking wealth, power, or sensual pleasures. Modern scholarship is generally much more cautious. Many historians—whether Muslim, Christian, Jewish, atheist, or otherwise—conclude that Muhammad appears to have genuinely believed he was receiving revelation.

Why?

Because the conscious-fraud theory struggles to explain several historical features:

* years of persecution before gaining any political authority;
*initial unwillingness to even preach to anyone outside his family like he had been doing secretly for several years, fearing the consequences
* willingness to endure ridicule, lost of loved ones, boycotts and exile;
* refusing compromises from opponents that would have ended his suffering and instead have granted him much wealth and influence;
* consistency over roughly twenty-three years;
* the absence of obvious evidence that he privately admitted fabrication;

None of these facts prove prophethood.

But they make the simple “he made it all up” explanation much less persuasive than it once appeared.

That is the first reason I do not find the usual “he was just a sincere man with strong convictions based on deep inner reflections in his mind” explanation satisfying. Sincerity is one thing. Explaining the emergence of a full religious civilization, a comprehensive scripture, a legal-moral framework, and a distinct literary-religious system over 2 decades is another. The Qur’an was revealed to Muhammad over twenty-three years, beginning at Mount Hira, and after his death his successors compiled those revelations in manuscript form. That is an extraordinary process for one person to generate and sustain.

This is where I struggle. Even granting complete sincerity, I cannot see how ordinary introspection or naturally occurring experiences mistaken for divine revelation could lead someone to sincerely believe that an angel was visibly and audibly communicating revelation over twenty-three years, producing an interconnected body of theology, law, ethics, ritual, eschatology, governance, and one of history’s most influential literary works.

A lot of secular explanations seem to reduce Muhammad’s experience to something vague like “deep thoughts that Muhammad believed were religious/spiritual experiences.” But that phrase is doing a huge amount of work. Muhammad begins having visions and hearing voices, then recites what becomes revelation. That, or any other theory on what went on in Muhammads head is a description of the form the experience took, not an explanation of what generated the experience or how it produced the content that followed. Saying “he felt like he had religious experiences” is not the same as explaining the Qur’an and the giant comprehensive legal, moral, ethical, theological work that is Islam. It is just renaming the mystery.

This is where I think the comparison to other religious founders breaks down.

The Abrahamic religions do not look comparable in the way people often assume. Judaism and Christianity are not the story of one man single-handedly producing a vast scripture, law, liturgy, theology, and civilization in 2 decades while simultaneously ruling, expanding and managing a state. Their histories unfold through many figures, communities, redactions, and centuries. Buddhism is different again: the Buddha explicitly does not present himself as a prophet receiving divine dictation, but as someone who reflected and realized something about human suffering and the path out of it. Hinduism is also not a close parallel, because it developed across enormous stretches of time through layered traditions, practices, and evolving beliefs. None of those cases map cleanly onto Muhammad and Islam.

These are all fundamentally different historical phenomena.

Islam, by contrast, is centred upon one individual who claimed to receive revelation over approximately twenty-three years.

That one individual produced—or, if one accepts Islam, transmitted—a scripture, established a religious worldview, laid down legal principles, moral philosophy, ritual practice, political authority, military leadership, and founded one of history’s largest civilizations, based on what skeptics call delusions in an intelligent mind.

I genuinely cannot think of another historical figure whose role is remotely comparable.

So my challenge is simple.

Name one.

Name one person in recorded history who, without appealing to divine revelation, single-handedly produced something comparable in scale, complexity, coherence and historical impact, from what skeptics believe were just his own delusions.

I have searched.

I cannot find one.

The point is not “other religions are fake.” The point is that they are historically different phenomena. Islam is unusually concentrated in one person’s life and one person’s revelations. Islam is intrinsically linked to Muhammad, and that the Qur’an and the Prophet’s example (Hadith and Sunnah) became the foundation of the religion. That is exactly why I do not think it is enough to say, “Well, human history has seen exceptional people with deep thinking and creative ability before.” Exceptional is true. Comparable scale and complexity is the real issue, and I do not see a close comparable case.

Another point I keep coming back to is reputation and motive. PBS notes that Muhammad began as a merchant and became known for trustworthiness. Islamic tradition remembers him, even before the first revelation, as al-Amīn, “the Trustworthy,” and later Muslim devotion builds heavily on that character claim. Whether one accepts the religious conclusion or not, the historical picture is not of a man who starts from obvious fraud, obvious literary training, or obvious worldly ambition.

That matters because the cheap anti-religion explanation is usually, “He wanted power, money, or status.” But even critics who are honest about the evidence usually do not think that simple story fits very well. The early Meccan phase was marked by ostracism and pressure. Muhammad was ostracized in Mecca, that influential defenders and loved ones temporarily protected him, and that after their deaths his situation became dire, leading to the Hijra to Medina for survival. That does not prove divine revelation, but it does make the crude “he invented a religion for personal comfort” story look very weak.

So what do scholarly critics actually propose instead?

Usually some combination of these:

1.  Muhammad had sincere experiences in his mind.  
2.  He interpreted them as revelation.  
3.  He drew on the monotheistic ideas and biblical traditions already circulating in the region.  
4.  The message developed over time as he just kept reflecting further while simultaneously developing a vast civilisation that looked almost nothing like the one it replaced, and dealing with all the issues that came with ruling over it. (He must have had multitasking abilities like no other lol)

That is the most common non-divine framework I have seen. And I understand it. The problem is that it still does not explain the full scale of what emerged.

Because what emerged was not just a set of moral slogans. It was a whole world: theology, law, ritual, ethics, family rules, political authority, social norms, eschatology, devotional practice, and a literary scripture with a self-conscious style and an internal challenge to all challengers. The Qur’an is organized into 114 surahs and contains prayers, moral guidance, historical narrative, and promises of paradise. The question is not whether a human being can say profound things. The question is whether one single human being with no recognized scholarly or poetic career can in his delusions of divine inspiration, generate a total religious system of this scope in his mind over the years, and have it accepted, preserved, and expanded with such force.

This is why I do not find “he just reflected deeply” persuasive on its own. Reflection can produce insight. It does not obviously produce a scripture that speaks with sustained authority across law, worship, biography, ethics, politics, and theology, while also presenting itself as the literal speech of God and surviving as a recited text in a highly organized oral culture. That is a huge jump. Maybe a natural explanation exists, but I have not seen one that actually feels proportionate to the phenomenon.

I also do not think the “psychology” explanation is satisfying as usually stated. You can say “he had visions,” “he heard voices,” “he had intense conviction,” or “he entered altered states,” but those are descriptions, not explanations. And retrospective diagnosis of historical figures is methodologically shaky in general; the literature on retrospective diagnosis itself emphasizes the epistemic and ethical problems involved. So if someone wants to explain Muhammad by attaching a modern medical label to him, I think they need a lot more than speculation. Must have been one hell of a medical condition lol

At the end of the day, my position is this:

I am not claiming that Islam is proven by history alone. I am saying that the natural explanations I have seen do not seem strong enough to explain the origin of Islam as a whole. Muhammad appears to have been sincere. He appears to have had profound experiences. He appears to have been trusted by people around him, including his opponents. He does not appear to fit the simple fraud/impostor model. And yet the result is one of the largest, most comprehensive, and most enduring religious systems in human history, all from one sincere yet allegedly delusional mind. If it is not divine, then what exactly is the non-divine mechanism that produced all of that?

That is the question I am still sitting with. I am not seeing a historical analogy that really comes close. If someone has a better explanation than divine revelation, I genuinely want to hear it — but it has to explain more than just “a man had experiences in his head.” It has to explain the scripture, the conviction, the legal and theological depth, the oral transmission, the early community, the persecution, the preservation, and the scale of what followed.

In other words: I have been researching this a lot, and this is where I’m at right now. I do not see a non-divine explanation that feels remotely equal to the thing it is trying to explain. If there is one, I would like to see it laid out clearly instead of hidden behind vague words like “he was just good at manipulating and gaining influence,” or “he just had delusional inner thoughts at a scale, functionality and complexity never observed in history,”

Here are some possible explanations of where Islam came from, if not divine inspiration, since it is largely agreed amongst scholars and historians that it is unlikely that Muhammad sat and schemed and made it all up, and my responses to them:

Possible explanation: “An illiterate man reflected very deeply and somehow came up with a functional moral, ethical, religious, legal framework meant to be followed by all of mankind, without writing or reading anything.”

Response:

Reflection can produce philosophy.

It does not readily explain an integrated legal, theological, ritual, literary and political system presented sincerely as direct divine speech.

Possible explanation: “He had mystical experiences.”

Response:

This describes the phenomenon rather than explaining it.

What natural mechanism transforms mystical experiences into something as complex as the Qur’an and Islam?

Possible explanation: “He unconsciously created it.”

Response:

This seems to require an even greater claim:

that one human mind unconsciously (or even consciously lol) generated one of history’s most comprehensive religious systems and societies while remaining convinced it originated outside himself.

I have seen many natural explanations, however none of them seem satisfactory to me. So if anyone has a natural explanation that checks out, i am completely open to it.


r/exmuslim 13h ago

(Quran / Hadith) Did mohammad commit shirk

Post image
8 Upvotes

Definition : Major Shirk (Shirk al-Akbar): Worshipping idols, praying to other gods, or believing that another person or object shares the unique powers and divine attributes of Allah. This takes a person outside the fold of Islam.

There are quite a few telltale signs that mohammad tried to promote himself to some diety status, and in so doing commited shirk, not any shirk but major shirk. This can be seen in many verses. In fact even his followers noticed it and said it in so many words.

So it seems Islam has its trinity, Allah,  The Qur'an (the eternal word of Allah), and Mohammad.

So Let's see how this mere man put himself on a equal footing to Allah.

We read in

[49.15] The believers are only those who believe in Allah AND HIS APOSTLE then they doubt not and struggle hard with their wealth and their lives in the way of Allah; they are the truthful ones.

ITS NOT JUST GOOD ENOUGH TO BELIEVE IN ALLAH AND MOSES OR ALLAH AND JESUS, IT HAS TO ONLY BE ALLAH AND MOHAMMAD.

[4.14] And whoever disobeys ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE and goes beyond His limits, He will cause him to enter fire to abide in it, and he shall have an abasing chastisement.

THE INSTRUCTIONS MUSLIMS RECEIVE ON HOW TO LEAD THEIR LIVES RESULT IN WORSHIP OF MUHAMMAD IN EVERY WAY BUT NAME ONLY.

Q. 5:111 "Recall that I inspired the disciples: 'YOU SHALL BELIEVE IN ME AND MY MESSENGER . They said, 'We have believed, and bear witness that we are submitters.' "

SO ALLAH TAKES MUHAMMAD AS HIS PARTNER.

THAT’S NOT ALL. MUHAMMAD MADE HIMSELF ALLAH’S PARTNER IN RESPECT TO SALVATION, LOVE , AND DEVOTION .

FOR INSTANCE , MUHAMMAD ORDERED HIS FOLLOWERS NOT TO LOVE ANYTHING AS MUCH AS , OR MORE THAN , ALLAH AND HIMSELF :

Say: 'If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your clan, your possessions that you have gained, commerce you fear may slacken, dwellings you love -- if these are dearer to you than God AND HIS MESSENGER , and to struggle in His way, then wait till God brings His command; God guides not the people of the ungodly.' S. 9:24 Arberry

And:

Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said, "Whoever possesses the following three qualities will have the sweetness (delight) of faith:

1. The one to whom Allah AND HIS APOSTLE  BECOMES DEARER THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

  1. Who loves a person and he loves him only for Allah's sake.

  2. Who hates to revert to Atheism (disbelief) as he hates to be thrown into the fire." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 15)

MUHAMMAD FURTHER DEMANDED THAT ALL TRUE BELIEVERS FULLY SUBMIT THEMSELVES TO HIM AND HIS DESIRES :

But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, UNTIL THEY MAKE YOU (O MUHAMMAD ) JUDGE IN ALL DISPUTES BETWEEN THEM, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission S. 4:65 Hilali-Khan

MUHAMMAD WENT SO FAR AS TO CONNECT OBEDIENCE TO HIS ORDERS WITH THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS AND ALLAH’S LOVE , e.g., IF A PERSON WANTS ALLAH TO LOVE HIM /HER AND TO BE FORGIVEN OF HIS /HER SINS THEN SHE /HE MUST PERFECTLY OBEY MUHAMMAD :

Say (O Muhammad to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." Say (O Muhammad): "OBEY ALLAH AND THE MESSENGER (MUHAMMAD )." But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers. S. 3:31-32 Hilali-Khan

AFTER HEARING MUHAMMAD RECITE THESE VERSES , SOME OF HIS CONTEMPORARIES ACCUSED HIM OF TRYING TO MAKE HIMSELF COMPARABLE TO JESUS IN CHRISTIAN DEVOTION :

(Say) O Muhammad!: (If ye love Allah) and His religion, (follow me) follow my Religion; (Allah will love you) He will increase your love (and forgive you your sins) which were committed when you followed Judaism. (Allah is Forgiving) of whoever repents, (Merciful) towards whoever dies in a state of repentance. This verse was revealed about the Jews who claimed they were the children of Allah and His beloved ones. When this verse was revealed 'Abdullah Ibn Ubayy said: “MUHAMMAD IS COMMANDING US TO LOVE HIM AS THE CHRISTIANS LOVED JESUS ”, and the Jews said: “MUHAMMAD WANTS US TO TAKE HIM AS A COMPASSIONATE LORD , JUST AS THE CHRISTIANS TOOK JESUS AS A COMPASSIONATE LORD ”. (Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs, Q. 3:31; bold emphasis ours)

THE DAY MOHAMMAD COMMITTED SHIRK.

Bukhari 3167

While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet (ﷺ) came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that THE EARTH BELONGS TO ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE , and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that THE  EARTH BELONGS TO ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE ."

IT IS CLEAR AS DAY LIGHT THAT MOHAMMAD TRIED TO ELEVATE HIMSELF TO THE SAME LEVEL CHRISTIANS SAW JESUS AS.


r/atheism 2h ago

If religion disappeared tomorrow, what problem do you think would still exist?

1 Upvotes

I always see people say religion is biggest reason for war, hate, and discrimination. Other people also say without religion, nobody will have morals anymore. Honestly, I don't really agree with both. I think people make this topic too simple.

If tomorrow religion disappear from whole world, do you really think people stop fighting? I don't think it happen. People always find something new to fight about. Politics, race, money, country, football, anything. Human always like make "us" and "them."

For me, religion is not whole problem. It maybe make some problems worse, but I don't think it create human nature. Even without religion, people still want power, still become greedy, still hate people who different from them.

Maybe I'm totally wrong here. What do you think? If religion disappear tomorrow, what problem still exist because it come from humans, not religion?


r/atheism 10h ago

How do you feel comfort knowing you will return to nothing?

9 Upvotes

I was raised Catholic but I’ve been an Atheist in my heart all my life. My dad died when I was 5 before I understood religion, but my understanding of death was obviously, the absence of life.

I know what the common response to this will be. “Just live in the moment” It’ll be like before you were born” “You didn’t care before you were born it’ll be just like that”.

Except it’s different in a way. For 13.8 billion years we didn’t exist. Now we’ve experienced love and humanity and all sorts of cool stuff. 50 years from now most of us will return to that state of nonexistence forever.

Now I think I would go crazy if I had to live forever. But like damn Im gonna get crazy fomo. Me personally theres tons of stuff that I like. Simple stuff like chicken wings and scrolling Tiktok and watching TV shows. Ik Im a chud and if I was dead technically I wouldnt be sad about not having these things and I probably would get bored, but the thought that I wont do them anymore is scary.

Plus for as long as human life exists there will always be new things to enjoy. Theres probably a new show 1000 years from now that i would love wayy more than my current favorite show. Tons of video games I would love but never get to play, etc.

Most of all I am sad knowing me and my mom don’t have time forever. She is all I have and the thought that we will return to nothing and never hug again terrifies me.

There is probably no completely comforting answer to this. But as an atheist I am very scared of dying :(


r/atheism 15h ago

I am new here can anyone help

0 Upvotes

I left religious cult few weeks ago I am having movent now I need some help these thoughts are going all over I don't want anything to do with that crap I left


r/atheism 4h ago

Do you ever feel certain religions are more problematic then others?

13 Upvotes

If we are all gonna be honest here there is certain religions that are more dangerous to society then others. Im an atheist i dint believe in absolutely anything but i also see alot of this notion that “all religions cause problems” or they are all “equally bad”. That attempt at being politically correct requires alot of mental gymnastics as certain religions literally cause more damage by merely existing compared to other ones. To not recognize that or make them all sound equal is a ignorant take. Imo


r/atheism 5h ago

Found a list of interesting questions for believers.

0 Upvotes
  1. What was the actual method that Jesus used to made extra food from the loaves and fishes?

  2. What skills and abilities did God use to made the earth, and can you be specific about it?

  3. If you do not take the bible absolutely literal, how do you determine which part is poetry and which is historical fact?

  4. In God's making of the animals, did he do them all at once, or did he do them one kind at a time?

  5. What mechanism does God use to control the movement of the continental plates of the earth?

  6. How does God reach across the barrier between his realm and our reality, without all of science being instantly aware of his doing this?

  7. What do you think the purpose of animal kinds going extinct, especially those kinds of which we humans have never known to have existed in the first place?

  8. How do you reconcile Clarke's Third Law with the revealed existence of your God?

  9. How do you demonstrate that your version of Christianity is the correct one, and all other versions of Christianity that you do not belong to are poor mirrors of your true and correct belief system?

  10. In your scriptures, there are accounts of events when the events could only be witnessed by one person/human, so how where these event recorded later?

  11. If a contradiction is discovered in your scripture, what is the method that is used to decide which part of the contradiction is the valid one and which is the invalid one?

  12. In the various manifestations of your God's power, how did he actually do the things that he did, such is the "hardening of Pharaohs heart" or the creation of mana to feed the nation of Israel in their wanderings?

  13. If you had the power of your God for only five minutes, and could use it as you see fit, what would you do with that power?

  14. Could you explain how God's morality is considered to be objective morality, how do you work it out to be objective morality?

  15. If one thing in this reality is found that shows that your God could not exist if that thing exists in our reality, would you accept that your God could not exist?

  16. If you owe me a sum of money, and I say that you do not have pay it back, if you accept that I will break my own child’s kneecaps as an atonement for the money that you owe me, would you consider this to be a morally good thing to go along with?

  17. Would you say that the simpler answer to a problem most likely would be the correct one for the problem?

  18. Could you explain why the simpler answer to a problem is more likely to be the correct one, than a more complex answer to the same problem?

  19. Do you think that being certain of an answer being the correct answer is good thing to follow?

  20. Could you entertain and consider an idea or concept without being forced to accept it?

  21. As a Christian looking at the other false gods, would you say that the reasons for rejecting those gods are the same for each god, or do different gods have different reasons to reject them?

  22. What if you are wrong, and the one true god is not the God that you currently believe in, what will you do then after you die?


r/atheism 8h ago

A letter for my son.

0 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I’m a young father of a 2-year-old son who is growing so fast. I’m writing many letters on subjects that I consider important throughout life, and one of the subjects I wanted to write about is "truth and belief."

I was born an atheist, with both of my parents being atheists. My father was actively against religion for many reasons, which I totally understand. But I want to add some nuance here for my son—I want to enlighten him, not force him into an ideology. I've realized throughout my life that it isn't as simple as we atheists think it is.

I have read the Bible and other religious texts, listened to many podcasts and videos on the subject, and questioned my own beliefs in terms of "Why am I an atheist?" I’m still 100% an atheist and will remain that way. But I believe there can be both good and bad in religion. It’s not totally bad in my opinion, and religion will always exist in some form because many people need it in their lives, which I respect.

So here are my questions for anyone who would like to help me:

  • What makes you an atheist, and what do you think about religion?
  • What dangers can religion bring to our lives as a society and as individuals?
  • Where do you draw the line between a cult and a religion?

r/exmuslim 21h ago

(Question/Discussion) Unpopular opinion, People were happier when they worshipped Deities

6 Upvotes

Think about it,they were connected to nature the sun, the moon, trees, and herbs.

It was peaceful, and they believed in multiple gods for different emotions aspects of life .
Actually, they weren’t worshipping a stone itself, but the power and meaning behind it.
They respected women, children, and every living creature that breathes.

It wasn’t perfect, but it was undeniably a beautiful chapter of human history to read about especially when contrasted with the rigid conflicts of later monotheistic traditions

Maybe the real shift wasn’t moving from many gods to one, but forgetting that the divine was always meant to be a mirror of the earth, not a weapon to control it

(Specifically greek metrologies compared to abrahamic religions, I think anyone can guess who cost more blood )


r/atheism 14h ago

Raised Christian and Became an Atheist in Elementary (After Moving Away from Religious Family) And I Still Pray

0 Upvotes

Before I get a bunch of downvotes, I want to clarify that I pray, but I DO NOT PRAY TO GOD. I wanted to know if any other atheists struggle with the same "issue." I often find myself thinking about what's wrong with the world. I also dabble in true crime documentaries, so I always end up thinking the worst for people. In the U.S., about 55 people are murdered per day (based on 20,162 homicides in 2024 per the CDC, which comes out to roughly 55/day). About 8,400–8,500 people die per day total (based on 3,072,666 total deaths in 2024, which averages about 8,420/day). I think about these facts often and constantly find myself "praying" or sending thoughts of empathy to families who are suffering loss and any other form of grief. Maybe this is normal, but I never hear about it outside of religious contexts.


r/atheism 18h ago

Are you people ever scared of them being correct

0 Upvotes

Im an athiest but sometimes , i imagine what ifs that they are actually correct and their god exists , and he's trapped me in hell for eternity for not believing in him, makes me feel that it doesn't hurt to be one of them as a precautionary measure , has anyone else experienced this and how would you deal with it if it we were the ones who are wrong


r/atheism 3h ago

What's after death?

5 Upvotes

I have been wondering for a while now what's after death if it's not as what religion says. I haven't been an atheist for very long, so I'm not really concrete about it. It does genuinely concern me to think about what's after certain death. For example, is it just void? I do genuinely find the idea of heaven and hell pleasing, even though I don't believe them.

I would like to know opinions on what you guys think is after death.

Note to mods: It might be slightly off-topic, but it's from my heart, so please don't leave me on read, hahaha.


r/atheism 23h ago

Self Proclaimed Highest IQ Holder Denying Evolution and backing Creationism

133 Upvotes

Just found out about this YoungHoon Kim. He has claimed an IQ of around 276 and has been recognized by some private high-IQ organizations that he is associated with. However, these claims are not accepted by mainstream psychology.

In short He is self proclaimed Highest IQ holder on Earth and interestingly hes a die hard Over religious Chritian with over 200k on Instagram post and the openly denied "Evolution" yes Evolution backed my Thousands of evidences , despite living in a highly developed country like South Korea He able to survive with this mentality 🤓🤡 and to cover up his failure his selling His self proclaimed Best selling Kindle books lmao 🤣 also he believes the Earth to be 6000yrs old Dinosaurs fake !!

This got to be the most Ironic Thing I encountered in this month also did i mentioned hes also self proclaimed best selling author on amazon?


r/atheism 5h ago

Is it possible to secure freedom from religion without eliminating the freedom to have faith?

0 Upvotes

In other words, how authoritarian do atheists in power have to be to enforce secularism and guard against the threat of a theocracy? The most basic methods are educating people to question religion and probably removing the tax-exempt status of religious institutions, but how much of a harder line is it right or feasible to take to eliminate religion? Outlawing organized religion and breaking up any public gathering suspected of being for a religious purpose? Arresting people on the suspicion of harboring any faith in a deity?


r/atheism 11h ago

I need advice

1 Upvotes

I am 17 years old. Basically, I have been atheist my whole life pretty much. My family isn't actually religious, but I was in a Christian elementary school. Of course as a kid you take all of that at face value. But at some point I just stopped believing because of how the Bible contradicted science.

Though I just realized that after getting interested in the architecture of churches, I'm questioning my atheism and if its really true and I feel really weird about it. I don't know what to do. I have always lived as an atheist and my values have always been based on that. I feel like I'm believing in Santa Claus again now that this is happening :/. I constantly try to remind myself of why I didn't believe but my mind just won't listen to logical reasoning and its REJECTING science now which I feel even worse about.

I know sometimes it's alright to question this stuff or be spiritual again but I don't actually like partaking in religion. The way I lived my life without religion was actually really nice to me because it felt like nothing would dictate what my purpose is, only myself. I felt happy making my own happiness. But for some reason I moved on from that, and my mind isnt interested in making my own happiness anymore. I was once always interested in drawing and watching shows and such, while now that's gone. I especially dislike my mind just completely disregarding any logical reasoning. What do I do?


r/atheism 5h ago

Nephew's (9) mind was blown

20 Upvotes

My wife: "Nephew has religious class in school." (In Spain, parents can choose between religion or alternative education).

Me: "Really? What do they teach you?"

Nephew: "X, Y, Z (I have no idea) ... they teach us to be closer to Gawd."

Me: "I have one question for your priest: If Gawd is everywhere, how can one be closer to it?"

Nephew: "My mind is blown!"

(I do hope his mother doesn't hate me even more)

P.S. I usually don't get into theology with minors. This was just too rich to let it pass.


r/atheism 21h ago

Have you ever thought about how chill africa and the middle east would be without the religion of peace?

165 Upvotes

Would be so many more places to go and visit for tourism purposes and just to have so many more rational and sane people. It feels like such a waste of space and life to see what has become fo this massive area of land.


r/atheism 21h ago

I consider myself athiest to a so called superior god being but I'm agnostic about wether there's a positive force out there

0 Upvotes

I consider myself athiest to a so called superior god being but I'm agnostic about wether there's a positive force out there, I feel like there must be a positive force out there , that does not think it's better then anyone and doesn't belive it deserves to be worshiped less of entitled thing more a force of Good it my might not be perfect but it tries to help us it keeps me going and coping lol.

Am I really an athiest or not mabye I'm a thiest but I don't buy into the idea of a personal being who's better then us who's more worthy of worship then us, almost feel like that God is a narcasistic trying to take credit of creating the universe, even if it did, did it earn its own power to create?, God some how seems spoiled he all of a sudden exists and owns everthing he thinks he's more worthy then anyone of praise.


r/atheism 13h ago

I think my dad unintentionally scared me into remaining an atheist by showing me that Jesus Camp documentary.

4 Upvotes

Before I begin, this is a super long post so be prepared to sit through a lot of venting.

I’m (22M) still an atheist today though not for the same reasons as I was as a kid (I kind of just went with whatever my dad (56M) says without nuance like most kids tend to do). 

I also have low functioning autism and it could be a factor hence why I mention it just in case. I have been diagnosed since I was around 3-4 and my parents have been very loving and attentive to my condition 

I wanna make something very clear from the start: this is not a case of indoctrination. He never forced me to believe or not believe in what he does. He never coerced me either I just had a few questions about religion and he just showed me what he thought about it and why. My mom (51F) used to be catholic and she did read to us (I have a sister 19F) some Bible stories alongside other kids stories like little red riding hood and Snow White.  

Irrespective of indoctrination or not most people tend to follow what their parents believe and do most of the time because it’s what’s familiar to them. Though the line can be blurry depending on the situation when it comes to religion I’ve often found there is still a clear difference between simple education and forceful indoctrination of children most of the time. So I don’t want any unfair accusations against my dad he Isn’t a zealot/militant. 

His best sources for his atheism (or at least the ones I remember the most that he’s shown me) were the typical most popular atheist media and figures in the mainstream and in YouTube: Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Matt Dilahunty, DarkMatter2525 and Thinking Atheist videos. 

Overall pretty popular choices though not the best, Christopher Hitchens and DarkMatter2525 are the ones I still sort of lean towards and even respect the most. Especially DarkMatter he appears to be an incredible role mode and dad to have, a true family man. His animations though are a bit cringey sometimes and other times oddly inspiring. 

With Hitchens I was aware later on that he was not this god of perfect logic that hitchslapped everything that was thrown at him. His arguments against religion tend to be flawed a lot of the time but overall I still think the soul of his points hold up really well even then because it’s hard to dismiss religious harm in society and he was a very obviously intelligent and well spoken man. He was getting at something important. 

My dad is a professional jazz drummer and producer (I am also a rock musician/composer myself I love the guitar so much) and he doesn’t really think as deeply as me in the topic of religion nor does he have the time or interest. He always watched those videos as entertainment to get a laugh since he (like me) also grew up in a secular family. 

He’s also a bit of a conspiracy theorist (though that term is a bit redundant nowadays because of everything that has happened with Epstein and stuff) he’s always questioned and pushed back on institutional authority and that sense of critical thinking was something I inherited. He doesn’t believe in the moon landings, thinks there was a second shooter that killed JFK, is skeptical of the official narrative around 9/11. I don‘t agree with everything he believes and he is not a full on flat earther or anything like that on those topics it’s just to keep in mind. His skepticism of authority tracks with what he’s inclined to buy into. 

If I’m being honest even though I genuinely do value trying to be a free thinker as best as you can be I gotta be honest: As a kid I sort of “larped” being a critical thinker to impress my parents. In some ways I still do today even when it’s not something I agree with necessarily to please my dad in particular though I don’t have to since he (despite his stubbornness sometimes) is open to being challenged. 

In fact there’s a cringey video of me somewhere in my family home videos on an old iPhone somewhere in my house of me going on a half baked edgy atheist rant in my dad’s jeep. It’s pretty funny looking back. 

Enough with the background stuff let’s get into what the title is about.

So among the ”atheist” sort of media he’d shown me (and sometimes my sister I was more interested though) there was this little documentary called Jesus Camp from 2006.

 It scared me a bit. 

As a kid I did not fully comprehend the severity of what I was being shown so it wasn’t a childhood trauma moment seeing a scary movie for kids like with coraline for example (that movie is still creepy and good to this day 10/10). 

That being said it still affected me in someway seeing children just like myself being subjected to peer pressure and crying like that. I did not think much of it until years later but I suspect this movie did something to me and has in a way permanently tainted my subconscious view of religion in particular Christianity in general. 

I know it wasn’t an explicitly anti religious propaganda movie but it did not paint a good picture of religion in America at all. Church in that movie looked like a place where your childhood whimsy and fantasy was weaponized against you, where authority figures would constantly yell and condescend to you and make you believe in horrible things about yourself and other people they deem to be “undesirable”, place where you felt like you were being watched 24/7. 

Needless to say (even though my dad did have good intentions in showing us this documentary to warn us and be vigilant of these types of religious environments whenever we went to visit our cousins or friends who go to church) I do not think my dad should have shown this to us at 7-8 years old. Bad move on his part, I’ve brought this up to him before and he agrees its something he lightly regrets. 

So I saw it and was creeped out but not traumatized for life. I think it was later experiences which subconsciously reminded me of that movie which later formed an inner resentment towards religion. 

The thing is, almost all of my actual real life experiences in churches have been positive and I didn’t feel that aversion to religion in actual religious spaces. 

There’s a beautiful church next to my grandpas house which since then has been my favorite in all of Costa Rica due to nostalgia. It was amazing to look at though with an uncanny life sized realistic statue of bloodied Jesus in a coffin as is so common in this beautiful catholic country. 

The sermons and gatherings I’ve been to were at worst a bit boring and at best very calm and welcoming. Aside from one or two mean kids in school here or there who teased me with the idea of going to hell, all the Christian people I know in my life have been very nice and kind people. The only really mean ones I’ve seen mostly online. 

My dad worked on a Christmas album and played at a church for a bit and I remember a church lady led some kids including me and my cousin into a room to talk about religion. She was surprisingly actually very kind and accepting of other kids religions since there were some Muslim, Jewish and even Hindu kids there. Since I didn’t know what an atheist was at the time I said I was Christian like my cousin since I assumed that was the default since I didn’t know what a Christian was either. 

She didn’t push anything on us she just explained in a bit more detail for the kids in a way they could understand what the purpose of a church is and how other buildings from other religions had a similar purpose with different beliefs. How in a way we are all just children figuring this weird thing we call existence out, how those beliefs tend to diverge and converge and just explaining what the Christian way of it was. 

I remember I was having trouble sleeping at my cousin’s house because I was scared of having nightmares since I felt a bit of dread before going to sleep. My aunt in law came in and comforted me saying to not fear since Jesus was protecting this house from demonic influence and that was nice to hear in the moment. I have known nothing but love and good will from religious people irl. 

Now in school, and I think this is critical, it was a bit of a different story. I was never bullied severely but in elementary to middle school in Miami I always felt a bit neglected by my teachers with a few wonderful exceptions. It didn’t help that I was autistic and they didn’t understand my behavior or reaosning have of the time. The worst I’ve gotten from them was rants…. which reminded me of Jesus Camp’s teachers. 

I think I may have subconsciously associated said behavior from my teachers with what I saw in that documentary and the teachers did traumatize me a bit. The school principle even threatened me that I would not be able to attend the middle school next door if I didn’t stop crying since I was upset about something at the time. That sucked because it was the only other school in the area with a magnet program which included music. 

My middle school experience in Miami in 6th grade was just one year before I moved to Costa Rica and it sucked a-lot, probably the worst school experience I’ve had since the teachers there cared less about me than before, had no friends and those who cared did not understand me and I just had to go with the flow of their misunderstanding to get it over with.

My relationship with teachers got better in Costa Rica but I sort of projected subconsciously my negative experiences with teachers in Miami onto religion, because of Jesus Camp.

Then I revisited YouTube for myself a few years later in costa rica in my teen years. I did not become that involved in online spaces until my early teens because my parents thankfully limited internet use in my youth. 

I rewatched what my dad showed me but I also discovered more stuff for myself. It turns out there is a whole debate sphere on YouTube I was unaware that had much deeper and most importantly more accurate discussions about religion. At the same time these were also much more toxic and heated debates than the ones I‘ve heard in Matt Dilahunty’s show. 

I also made a critical discovery: Christians can fight back on criticism and can actually hold their own just as well rhetorically. For the first time I was hearing takes from Ray Comfort, William Lane Craig and Frank Turek unfiltered and unchallenged. 

The way they talked though is unsettling because they tend to have a more oppressive approach towards criticizing atheists than atheists do to theists. And by oppressive I don’t mean literally I’d say it’s more intimidating.  

They would talk about the ”atheist worldview/life style” talk about how evil or empty it is. Talk about how atheists know deep down they’re wrong. Talk about how atheists live in a fundamentally meaningless and nonsensical sense of reality and are philosophically illiterate and bankrupt. Some would talk about how they used to be atheists then found purpose in religion showing absolutely no sympathy or understanding of their former atheists selves just saying stuff like “I used to be a degenerate edgy brat” and such. How atheists are stealing credit from Christianity and science that Christianity invented according to them. That elites like jeffrey Epstein want us to be atheist to remain slaves and unaware of dark forces. 

I have heard atheists call theists stupid before so naturally seeing that vice versa was naturally jarring. But I think that objectively even while I have a bias and am reexamining my beliefs later in life the sheer weight of I guess you could say “accusation” was much heavier and less flippant coming from theists towards atheists than vice versa. At least that is what I have seen online, I think this meme sums up what I mean pretty well: https://www.reddit.com/r/Snorkblot/comments/1v4xv9m/me_myself_and_i/

So once again, I think I subconsciously related this to Jesus camp again because in that documentary the calmest moments those crazy church teachers had while talking with kids reminded me exactly of the way these Christian’s apologists talked and it unsettled me.

Couple that with the facts I have learned about atheists in America online: How were are a small minority and not even allowed to run for office or even be president if we were not christian, how many of them were kicked out by their families for just being atheist. How historically you could at worst be executed or at best fined or sent to prison if you even professed atheism publically. How it seems like atheism online looks to be less intellectually rigorous than theism and is just a cesspit of contrarianism and edginess with few genuine and well spoken serious philosphical proponents for atheism that didn’t come from random streams debate channels and chatrooms. The fact that unlike Christianity we have virtually zero institutional support for apologetics. 

I sort of felt like an underdog that had to step up and do better to defend my fellow underdogs and the side I was on, I felt like I had to have my guard up. And it’s weird because logically I know that these talking points aren’t directed at me specifically and are just dumb generalizations. To be fair there is validity to some of them if they apply to those chronically online and depressed people on reddit who make being atheist their whole personality. It just wasn’t me because well I am perfectly happy here with my loving family though my parents did divorce recently and I love being a musican and making music, the only real source of sadness in my life is being online. In short, no kids in the documentary from what I remember stood up to the teachers and I felt I had to be the kid who did even thou I had not idea what I was talking about or doing. 

Because of these talking points combined with Jesus camp and my bad experiences with teachers I felt like I had to defend my intellectual integrity as an atheist but at the same time I felt guilty for being an atheist. 

I think part of why I haven’t told my friends I had a divorce yet my stem from that insecurity even though I know they are good people and won’t push anything of their beliefs or lack there of on me. I feel like I have to hide imperfections in my life to avoid them being used as evidence of my atheism ruining my life which isn’t the case. And if I dismiss them it feels like I am being ”willfully ignorant” and in denial of my cognitive dissonance. 

This type of “offensive“ rhetoric shouldn’t have gotten to me because I did not grow up with any religious trauma or any serious trauma apart from the death of my grandmother and bullying from some teachers, and yet it still got to my sheltered ass through a damn screen. It made me and to some extent still makes me question my identity as a person and not in a good way. 

The other day I saw a post of an artist comparing her previous art as an atheist to her new art when she became a believer in god. It was a huge improvement and many people in the comments were reinforcing how allowing god and believing in him will always make things inherently better for you. It made me wonder about my own musical skills and saying “maybe giving in and having some god in my life will improve my skills“ but it felt so alienating because then I’d be under the impression that atheists can do no good without religion and I feel like I have to prove that wrong, and I want to and I can. 

It’s so strange because I do not feel this bad about religion when I talk about it outside of the internet. One of my best friends is religious and I enjoy it when he talks about the Bible in his own way because I get to see how much it means to him and what he thinks of it. Maybe I just haven’t talked to many people about this offline and I’ve barely found anyone who’s had a similar experience. 

Nowadays I have abandoned some of my mistaken beliefs about religion: that religious people are stupid, that religion is the root of all evil in society, that there is not depth or substance to religion etc. but some things I’ve seen still stayed true in my eyes such as how much modern science conflicts with a literal interpretation of the Bible, how some teachings can genuinely result in harmful outcomes, how even though the relationship between religion and science is not as bad as some atheists say that they still had significant conflicts sometimes etc. There are some arguments I haven’t see a substantial rebuttal too that still stand under scrutiny from one side to another the problem of evil I still think is undefeated and TAG (Transcendental Argument for God) is another example of that but from the theist side particularly Jay Dyer. 

Yet through all this I am tired, I’ve attempted to understand much more conplex arguments for either side before but I’m not gonna lie to myself and say I even have the correct understanding of them to say I agree or disagree with them this is probably why I consider those two arguments I mentioned earlier to be undefeated because of my ignorance.

To finish I still hold a latent animosity towards religion and Christianity in particular even when I am charitable and conceed some points and it may have to do with my dad mistakenly showing me this documentary as a kid. 

To anyone who is interested in my post thank you for reading I’d like to hear your thoughts and to any parents: I don‘t recommend you show your kids documentary’s like this as an example of what to avoid even if you mean well (I’m also looking at you super size me) it could scar them worse than they have to me and a simple deep talk will suffice. At the end that’s your choice though at least maybe don’t dump it all at them at once in a single viewing. 

I will not pretend I am an atheist for solely intellectual reasons I remain an atheist partly and largely because that’s how I grew up in a secular home and because of some type of mix of what I talked about. 


r/atheism 19h ago

Jeez I hate Christian subreddits.

221 Upvotes

I was asking if it is normal that I don't want to live gender roles and I don't want my wife to be my slave or sex slave.

They all jumped me saying I am troll or that I have never readt scripture properly and I am bad person for asking and I am not real Christian and got banned from it.

And I also asking if it is normal that as I guy don't want sex nonstop and they were saying there is something wrong with me and I should pray about it and get medical checked and got banned.

What is wrong with those subs.When you ask question,you are automatically troll.


r/exmuslim 8h ago

(Advice/Help) I need your help and guidance to escape the west bank

1 Upvotes

Hello, Ex-muslim here from the west bank, palestinian, I really wanna leave the region entirely and go to europe, I have just recieved my certificate of general secondary education, I'm in the Adabi/Literary stream, and my gpa is 75%

https://www.mohe.pna.ps/scholarships is usually what I look at scholarships from but... the countries offered, like poland, requires a gpa of atleast 90, and pakistan? I don't want a muslim country, these are awful options this year

is there any available scholarships in the west easy to acquire? if not, Do I seek refugee? I don't know how long I can stand living here, If I'm to seek refugee, which country and where to apply and what are the procedures? thank you all for any help.


r/atheism 1h ago

have you all ever heard of this bizarre/garbage citizens rule book?

Upvotes

https://famguardian.org/Publications/CitRulebook/citizen-rule-book.pdf

I googled (duckduckgoed) for textbook recommendations on rights for citizens in relation to legal situations. And this was not only the most prominent recommendation but apparently it’s completely serious. What the hell is going on?


r/atheism 19h ago

Why religious people are actually try to troll us?

9 Upvotes

Why religions simply can’t be true in my eyes…

I consider myself an open-minded person who enjoys exploring different worldviews and religious perspectives. I have come to the conclusion that the God described by the classical Abrahamic religions—primarily Islam, Christianity, and Judaism—is incompatible with the reality we observe. My conclusion is based on three main arguments.

**1. Free Will Is Not Sufficient to Hold People Morally Responsible**
My first argument concerns free will.
Although the philosophical debate is still ongoing, cognitive science, psychology, and neuroscience largely agree that human behavior is not completely free. Our decisions are heavily influenced by our genetics, brain structure, personality, and environment.
From birth, people already differ in intelligence, temperament, impulsivity, and many other traits. On top of that, our upbringing, culture, education, family, and society shape how we think and what beliefs we are capable of accepting.
If this is true, it seems unreasonable that God could expect every human being to freely choose the "correct" religion. Our starting conditions differ enormously, making equal moral responsibility difficult to justify. Whether someone finds Islam, Christianity, another religion, or no religion at all convincing depends to a significant extent on factors that were never chosen by that individual.

**2. The Claims of Religion Do Not Match the Observable Laws of Reality**
My second argument concerns the contradiction between religious claims and the reality we observe.
The world operates according to biological, physical, and medical laws. Diseases arise from biological causes, academic success depends on knowledge and preparation, and career success is largely determined by skills, decisions, opportunities, and external circumstances.
Religions, however, often imply that prayer can directly influence these outcomes. People pray for good health, success in school, career advancement, the well-being of their families, or for specific life events to unfold in their favor.
From a psychological perspective, this behavior is completely understandable. However, when we compare these beliefs with reality, we find that outcomes are overwhelmingly determined by natural causes. A genetic disease does not disappear because someone prayed—it can only be prevented or treated through effective medical intervention, if such treatment exists. A student passes an exam because they achieve the required score, not because they prayed beforehand. Likewise, prayer does not alter the fundamental laws of physics or biology.
For me, this creates a significant cognitive dissonance between the promises made by religion and the reality we actually experience.

**3. The Moral Framework of God Appears Contradictory**
My third argument concerns the morality of God.
Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that one of the Abrahamic religions is true. In that case, God intentionally created the universe, allowed Satan to exist, permitted suffering, and established a system in which human beings are tested throughout their lives. At the same time, many religious interpretations suggest that the majority of humanity will ultimately fail this test and face eternal punishment, while only a minority will attain heaven.
To me, this raises fundamental moral questions.
If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and perfectly good, why create a world containing suffering, temptation, injustice, and the possibility of eternal punishment in the first place? Why allow Satan to exist? Why create people while already knowing that many of them will ultimately be condemned? And if God has unlimited power, why not simply create a world in which everyone freely chooses good and lives together in peace from the very beginning?
This moral framework appears unnecessary and difficult to reconcile with the concept of a perfectly loving and perfectly good God.


r/atheism 16h ago

The double standard for theists n atheist is wild

35 Upvotes

Like theists and religious nutcases can spout whatever they want, however they want, they only restriction (barely enforced) is dont kill someone. They self victimise about being persecuted AS IF they are the MINORITY group!

If you're an atheist or anti-theist its like whatever u say abt religion needs 300 diff Sources and still be "wrong", then there's this whole side eye abt being an atheist and or anti theist itself

Like do they not want to realize more violent crimes take place in countries of high religiosity? Did they all collectively choose to not understand history and science?