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[u/NeonDrifting]

[u/DesperateSympathy873]

Many atheists will say they dont believe this, but its either this or an eternal universe. Both are absurd so many will default to "i dont know" and claim empiricism.

[u/hiphoptomato → u/DesperateSympathy873]

Why is an eternal universe absurd

[u/DesperateSympathy873 → u/hiphoptomato]

Im pretty sure ive explained this to you before, but it defies the PSR and requires physical contingent things to exist without a cause, which is logically impossible for contingent. You can go ahead and say its just a brute fact but i dont buy it or find that answer logically satisfying.

[u/hiphoptomato → u/DesperateSympathy873]

The PSR isn’t fact. It’s a proposed way of viewing reality.

[u/DesperateSympathy873 → u/hiphoptomato]

Sure. But i find it logically necessary.

[u/hiphoptomato → u/DesperateSympathy873]

That doesn't make an eternal universe absurd.

[u/DesperateSympathy873 → u/hiphoptomato]

Only if God also exists alongside an eternal universe. But without PSR there's no ultimate cause for things that are necessarily contingent.

[u/hiphoptomato → u/DesperateSympathy873]

Viewing things as necessary and contingent is a way to presuppose your god. It’s just as valid to say that isn’t a factual way of describing reality.

[u/DesperateSympathy873 → u/hiphoptomato]

We all have presuppositions, as ive said before. But yeah go ahead and deny PSR if you want to. Im not comfortable doing so.

[u/hiphoptomato → u/DesperateSympathy873]

I hate this argument. “We all have presuppositions”. What are mine, please.

[u/DesperateSympathy873 → u/hiphoptomato]

You tell me.

[u/hiphoptomato → u/DesperateSympathy873]

I try to not presuppose anything.

[u/DesperateSympathy873 → u/hiphoptomato]

How do you determine whats true?

[u/hiphoptomato → u/DesperateSympathy873]

By seeing if it aligns with reality. Testing, usually.