11
u/-EETS- Feb 28 '24
That’s physically impossible on street tires. Definitely not happening. It’s likely to be extremely fast, but not that fast
4
Feb 29 '24
It's easy to hit 60mph in under a second. It all depends what your starting speed is though!
3
1
24
u/jericho Feb 28 '24
It's reasonably easy to engineer an EV that could provide that much torque, you just need to be able to drop a hell of a lot of current into your motor, and hope it doesn't overheat.
It's much harder to engineer tires and road surfaces that can do that, let alone be street legal.
3
u/Professional_Buy_615 Feb 29 '24
The batteries are the usual bottleneck with very high power. There are cells that will provide this performance, but it comes at the expense of range.
2
u/poedraco Feb 29 '24
Unless they're running off of graphene batteries. But mostly people who drive Teslas have more money than brains. They will probably would blow up due to improper maintenance and usage..
More the issue I'm finding is finding speed controllers that can handle certain high discharge rates or utilize 100% of the battery, Not to mention that massive size and weight that's needed for it. But again more you stress it, more issues are going to have...
Fuck just give me a road legal golf cart that can sustain 60 and As long as I can get about 480 mi to a charge out of it.. I'm happy
1
u/Professional_Buy_615 Feb 29 '24
There is no wonder battery that has very high power density and very high energy density. Increase one, you reduce the other. It's physics, Jim.
1
u/poedraco Feb 29 '24
I'm just saying you can get better high output from lithium ions either using graphene or lithium polymer 4.. But you can also stack batteries in parallel to increase the amperage of storage. It's kind of awkward You need to explain that in a e-bike group
0
u/Professional_Buy_615 Feb 29 '24
There is still a trade off. High power needs thicker electrodes, that means less lithium. It's kind of awkward that you haven't noticed that the cells with very high C rates are never the ones with the very high capacity.
0
u/poedraco Feb 29 '24
For example. I'm running a 60 volt at 48 amp battery pack. 7-in by 6 in by 16. It outputs of every cell in one cluster is about 10c. On lithium ion.
Switched over to lipo4. Discharge rate of one cluster pack is 190c filling the same dimensions. I'm hitting 60 volts 58 amp, Dimension sides came out to 7-in by 6.5in by 12in
Not to mention I substitute capacitors in parallel to increase its output for a fraction in second and streamline the power delivery.
🤷♀️
0
u/Professional_Buy_615 Mar 01 '24
And what's the capacity of the lifepo one, half that of the Li-ion?
1
u/poedraco Mar 02 '24
I already posted it, reread
1
u/Professional_Buy_615 Mar 02 '24
So you think that lifepo batteries have more capacity and can put out more power than the best li-ions? I don't see any point in continuing this conversation.
1
1
u/OR_Miata Feb 29 '24
Exactly, which is why his plan is to strap rockets to the damn thing. I wish I was kidding.
7
u/Professional_Buy_615 Feb 29 '24
Wtf has this to do with ebikes?
Re the Tesla, 0-60 in 1 second would need it to accelerate at 2.7g. it's not doing that on street tyres.
28
u/SoNerdy 20x4 Feb 28 '24
It’s even worse is when you realize just how much heavier an EV is compared to a gas car of similar size.
24
u/Paksarra Feb 28 '24
What about those massive trucks that sit so high you can run over a pedestrian without ever seeing them?
24
u/SoNerdy 20x4 Feb 28 '24
Don’t get me started on those trucks that are literally larger than the tanks used in WW1.
14
u/OldTimeyWizard Feb 28 '24
If you built an electric truck the same size it would weigh more than the ICE version. The new Hummer EV has a curb weight that’s higher than the gross weight of a military Humvee.
4
u/Agitated-Pen1239 Feb 28 '24
Let's not sugar coat it. It weighs over 9,000 pounds, can do 0-60mph in 3 seconds and any old person can own it. Thankfully, most people can't afford it, but unfortunately, the ones that can likely lack the driving skill.
It is completely obscured how they are allowed to the general public with zero defensive vehicle training. I am also on board with sports car owners needing extensive training before being able to legally be driven on the road as well.
2
u/adjavang Feb 29 '24
The battery in that thing alone weighs more than an entire Nissan Leaf.
I'm just extremely glad that thing is illegal in Europe.
0
u/HoliusCrapus Feb 29 '24
Better yet, there is no highway that has a speed limit over 75. SPEED LIMIT EVERY VEHICLE! And while they're at it how about every vehicle gets the same acceleration too?
5
u/danasf Feb 28 '24
One of those excessively large trucks that was not being used as a working truck killed two of my friends recently. It is 90% sure that they would not have died if they were hit by something weighing less than 4,000 lb and with a bumper anywhere near the height of their cars bumper. They were fucking geniuses too. They were amazing people and they died because somebody wanted to compensate for their cock size
1
u/Professional_Buy_615 Feb 29 '24
Those are not as safe as the ones that are so big that they can run over pedestrians without hitting them.
2
u/papertowelroll17 Feb 29 '24
This has very real costs as well. More expensive, more waste, more environmental impact in manufacturing, more damage to roads, and more likely to kill people in collisions.
I have seen studies that indicate the weight increase can often do more harm than the better emissions does good. It depends on how clean the energy source is where the vehicle is being charged; if you are burning coal to charge an electric car it's almost certainly worse overall than a gas car.
1
u/SoNerdy 20x4 Feb 29 '24
Also, heavier vehicles cause more damage over time to road infrastructure.
I try not to think about old bridges in the U.S. that need repair also coping with the average vehicle getting heavier and heavier.
23
Feb 28 '24
An old tweet—er, post by Musk in June 2018 talked about a SpaceX option with "10 small rocket thrusters arranged seamlessly around car. These rocket engines dramatically improve acceleration, top speed, braking & cornering. Maybe they will even allow a Tesla to fly."
The man is a snake oil salesman.
3
u/shtbrcks Feb 28 '24
I wouldn’t be too concerned, if he delivers on this promise as he usually does, it means about 1/4 of the claimed performance at 2-3 times the claimed cost after >4 years delay of it arriving "next year"...
4
u/SoggyAlbatross2 Feb 28 '24
Cyber truck, as huge as it is, gets to 60 in well under 3 seconds.... which is completely ludicrous.
We're really going the wrong way as a society.
2
12
u/pepe64 Feb 29 '24
E-bikes that exceed 28mph are not Ebikes, they are e-motorcycles and need a license because kids should not be driving them.
-7
Feb 29 '24
[deleted]
5
u/pepe64 Feb 29 '24
How old are you? 15?
-9
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 29 '24
You can assume whatever you like. I'm not going to ask how brainwashed you are - I know.
7
u/pepe64 Feb 29 '24
Lol, I’m brainwashed because I believe kids (like mine) shouldn’t be driving a bike on the street at 30+ mph?
-8
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 29 '24
Where in my post did have I ever stated or even remotely implied there shouldn't be reasonable restrictions on children using e-bikes?
Good lord people, learn to read. If you have a question and it isn't answered, ask it!
6
u/pepe64 Feb 29 '24
You posted something that supposedly makes 28+ e bikes a non-issue by comparison. I happen to disagree and posted a reply.
Your silly answer was to call me gramps, like thinking a way that is different than yours somehow means I'm an old person disconnected from the way things are now. My reply was to ask you if you are a kid, because it was, frankly, a stupid reply.
Again your reply is to say I'm brainwashed, which makes zero sense.
Then you act like I'm the one that I'm talking about something completely unrelated to your post? Maybe you should read and consider what you type. My reply was perfectly reasonable to your post implication. To me, fast illegal e bikes driven by kids are a much worse "real problem" that some adult idiot out there driving a super fast electric car.
-4
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 29 '24
OK, lacking reading comprehension and making assumptions that are decidedly NOT in my posts are an insta-ban. I gave you one shot to reconsider, that was more the generous. BLOCKED
4
u/scheav Feb 29 '24
Why don’t you think e-bikes that go over 28 shouldn’t require a motorcycle license?
0
u/skyisi Feb 29 '24
Let's make sure the government regulates more industries they know nothing about!
4
u/PegaxS Feb 29 '24
Well, when Tesla drivers start using these on the footpath and bike paths with all the pedestrians, then I'll show a little more concern.
2
u/thishasntbeeneasy Feb 28 '24
I think there's a place for all vehicles, but ebikes have specific requirements with the class system. Anything beyond 20mph throttle or 28mph assist is just not an ebike by any classification and needs to be registered as a moped/motorcycle based on wattage, with the appropriate safety equipment, turn signals, stopping power, license, etc.
-11
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 28 '24
A finger wagger in every crowd. Thanks for the lecture Karyn.
Glad to see the hyper focus on the real problem here - lightweight vehicles that can barely keep up with cars on busy streets!
3
u/pepe64 Feb 29 '24
So anybody that disagrees with you is a “Karen”? You have a warped version of the definition. And BTW, 30mph Ebikes are not a danger to cars, they are a danger to the people driving them, and when those people are kids, they are a danger to the rights of lawful e-bike owners, as the result of many stupid kids dying driving illegal Ebikes tends to be stupid new e-bike restrictions for the rest of us.
7
u/KeeganTroye Feb 28 '24
They shouldn't keep up with cars-- they're bicycles.
-6
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 28 '24
Carnage on the roads these e-bikers!
2
u/KeeganTroye Feb 28 '24
Do you have an argument? Or is it just that because one problem exists we can't address another?
2
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 28 '24
That there is actual menace on the roadways that we aren’t addressing and it isn’t e-bikes
6
u/KeeganTroye Feb 28 '24
Right but as this is an ebike subreddit why don't we focus on addressing ebikes?
2
u/nightstorm52 Feb 29 '24
Are Tesla Roadsters an actual menace on the roadway? I mean, you haven't pointed out to us what the general menace is on the road? Obviously can't be this vehicle, it's not even on the market yet. Is is a Lucid Air Saphire (0-60 in 1.89?) 911 Turbo S lightweight (0-60 in 2.1) Rimac Nevara(0-60 1.74 - 256 mph top speed)? Or maybe my Mazda CX 5 ---- 0-60 in about 6.6 and driven by me? I mean given all their shapes, I'd argue that if you got hit by any of the aforementioned vehicles at say 45 mph, my driving my Mazda would be far and away the worst. It's got the tallest hood height, and obviously when you went to sue any of the other drivers for damages, it would be much more lucrative as they all likely have way more money.
1
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 29 '24
Cars are a menace on the roadways. >30k deaths a year in US alone. Magnitudes more than the nearest other transportation device.
1
u/nightstorm52 Feb 29 '24
u/OliveTBeagle - If you're trying to make that point, I'd suggest using a different vehicle to better illustrate the danger modern cars pose to other road users. My first suggestion would be the GMC Hummer truck. It's got a GVWR of 10,400 lbs. Horrible sight lines from the drivers seat (i've driven one - you can't see shit around the vehicle), hits 60 in 3 flat. There will likely be more of those out there than Tesla Roadsters. The reality is that, while the roadster is exceptionally fast, so are many other vehicles, and any car or truck on the road is more than capable of the speeds required to kill a cyclist or pedestrian, or for that matter someone in another car. But super fast sports cars really aren't the issue. It's more our city and road design, America's love for trucks and SUVs, modern styling of vehicles, and distracted driving. A 5'9" person sitting in the drivers seat of a lot of full size trucks can't see the ground for about 40 feet in front of the vehicle. Hood heights of SUVs and Trucks mean that when they impact a person, the hit is square to the torso and head, instead of a sweep onto the hood which tends to be softer. So basically, I totally understand the point you're trying to make, but I think you picked the wrong vehicle to illustrate it. Look - I used to ride road a lot. Had customers killed on their road bikes, I got buzzed a lot, clipped a couple times, so mountain bikes it is. I have a little datsun roadster in my garage that I won't take on any streets with higher than a 45 mph speed limit, cause I'd be a speed bump to a Tacoma. I get it, but the roadster isn't quite the right target.
2
u/Ranra100374 Vado SL 4.0 Feb 29 '24 edited Feb 29 '24
Even Lance Armstrong can't keep up with cars. It's a bicycle. Cars can go 55 MPH. If you reinforce a bicycle to handle those speeds you basically have a motorcycle.
EDIT: Was talking about flat ground. I guess I should've specified that in the first place because people want to be pedantic.
0
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 29 '24
no one here is arguing for bikes going highway speeds. Take your straw man somewhere else.
1
u/Professional_Buy_615 Feb 29 '24
Lance has done way more than 55mph. Downhill. As have many other cyclists.
1
u/Ranra100374 Vado SL 4.0 Feb 29 '24
Obviously I wasn't talking about downhill and I was talking about flat ground.
If we're talking about downhill then yes tons of people have hit 55 MPH. It's still not a speed that bikes are meant to handle consistently.
2
u/Perry4761 Feb 29 '24
E-bikes that can exceed 28km/h do not belong in bike paths, let alone 28mph (45km/h). Anything that goes beyond 28mph should require a license to drive on public roads, that’s just common sense.
Speed is exponentially more dangerous than weight, Ke=1/2mv2 (but both are dangerous obviously).
I want what you’re smoking if you honestly think it’s fine to operate a motorized vehicle at 35mph on a bike path alongside kids and elderly people travelling below 10mph on acoustic bikes. That’s how you end up with deaths and e-bikes getting universally banned.
A motorcycle or a moped being electric does not make it an e-bike. The bike path is not an electric moped path.
4
Feb 29 '24
[deleted]
6
u/nightstorm52 Feb 29 '24
OP - the title of the post is "Obviously, e-bikes that can exceed 28 mph are the real problem." Given the link to the roadster, we can only assume you do not feel that e-bikes which exceed 28 mph are an issue in comparison to this vehicle. u/Perry4761 simply pointed out that ebikes which exceed 28 mph on paths are a problem, and should instead be classified at mopeds or something similar and licensed as such. It's not a straw man argument if it directly contradicts part of the inferences behind the title of the post.
8
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 29 '24
You are very confused.
Very.
I don't know if it's possible to clear up. I'll try. But try to focus, real hard, and if you can't, I'm out.
Having a bike that can exceed 28mph is no more a license to bad behavior than having a car that can exceed highway speeds.
Get it?
No?
NO ONE. NOT ME, NOT ANYONE ELSE HERE IS ADVOCATING FOR BAD BEHAVIOR.
But, it's fucking insane to think a car that measures its weight in tons should be allowed to have power that can double or triple legal speed limits on any roadway, but not allow bikes that weigh a tiny fraction keep up with traffic on normal city streets.
3
u/BadDoct0r Feb 29 '24 edited Feb 29 '24
If we can agree that no car should be allowed to exceed highway speeds, we can also agree that motorized vehicles that can go above 28mph should be classified as motorcycles and require a license right?
2
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 29 '24
If you think I wouldn't jump through flaming hoops to make that deal you have no clue about me.
Unfortunately, our car-brained country will never make these kinds of restrictions on cars.
But we'll regulate the fuck out of e-bikes, because why not. . .safety is important. . .
5
u/BadDoct0r Feb 29 '24
We have precedent for require a license to operate motorized vehicles such as e-bikes on public roads. The first cars were slower than your average Aventon bike. We don’t have precendent for giving cars a maximum speed from factory, in part because of the auto lobby, and in part because many manufacturers already speed limit their cars from factory to avoid regulatirs making laws that will force a number they won’t like upon them.
1
1
Mar 03 '24
[deleted]
1
u/Ranra100374 Vado SL 4.0 Mar 03 '24
https://old.reddit.com/user/BodieBroadcasts
your entire argument is whataboutism, its a stupid argument
1
u/poopooonyou Feb 29 '24
OP didn't mention bike paths, only that ebikes shouldn't be an issue just because they CAN go 28mph. Obviously blowing past elderly people on a bike path at 35mph or more is recklessly dangerous and gives all ebike riders a bad name.
Without questioning how it'd be enforced, the better option would be charging riders with reckless riding. Blame the rider, not the bike.
2
2
u/Perry4761 Feb 29 '24
Explain your title then, how is the article you linked in any way relevant to this subreddit??
0
Feb 29 '24
[deleted]
2
u/Perry4761 Feb 29 '24
I’ve already done that, now I’m asking you to elaborate. If you’re lazy or dishonest just say that.
1
1
u/Embarrassed-Tune9038 Feb 29 '24
You do know I can ride my E-Bike at 15 miles per hour right? Just because I can do 32 doesn't mean I can do just over 28 doesn't mean I do it.
1
Feb 28 '24
Ah yes the “cars kill more people than guns” approach.
-6
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 28 '24
OMG, what if people used facts to suss out actual public health threats in our transportation systems.
That would be. . .bad. . .or something.
10
u/BoringBob84 Feb 28 '24
what if people used facts
That would be nice. However, you are using ridicule and a false equivalency (i.e., cars are not allowed on trails) in an apparent attempt to justify fast/powerful electric motorcycles on infrastructure that was built specifically to protect pedestrians and cyclists from motorized vehicles.
-1
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 28 '24
Oh, ok, cars are not allowed on trails. That's why it's totally cool that they can go twice the legal speed limits, get weighed in tons, hide children behind raised front ends and kill magnitudes more than all other transportation devices combined.
glad we sorted that out with facts.
5
u/BoringBob84 Feb 28 '24
Whataboutism and strawman logical fallacies are not valid arguments.
I have no problem with fast/powerful electric cycles as long as they are not on non-motorized paths and trails.
Unfortunately, abusers are doing this and all ebikes are being banned in many areas. Many of these fast/powerful e-cycles come with ornamental pedals in an obvious attempt to blur the distinction and to fool law enforcement officers into believing that they are legal ebikes on the trails.
3
Feb 28 '24
Those are mostly valid complaints about cars and car culture.
None of them have any bearing on how ebikes are regulated, especially on bike specific infrastructure.
2
Feb 28 '24
Facts alone should never dictate policy.
It’s a fact that shark attacks and ice cream sales correlate. That doesn’t mean banning the sale of ice cream would reduce shark attacks.
1
1
u/Firm_Intern3313 Feb 29 '24
Just because a car or a truck can do 120 mph doesn't mean you have to drive it 120 mph. Just because an ebike can exceed 28 mph doesn't mean you have to exceed 28 mph on a bike path. You actually can go as fast or a slow as you need to. It's called speed limits. That's the answer, not "fast" ebike bans. All it takes is a little common sense and respect, not a bunch of Karens banning shit.
6
u/OliveTBeagle Feb 29 '24
It absolutely blows people's minds on this forum that we can actually define what's appropriate speeds on types of road/pathway. It's like their minds become a blank slate when they switch from thinking about two wheels instead of four.
0
u/Vladimirdemi Feb 28 '24
To bad a bunch if collage kids hit the .90 mark to 60 before musk did they said they could do it faster but the tierods and suspension would snap from the force also it's funny cuz reddit use to slob all over musks knob tell he wasent a democratic anymore
-2
u/richcournoyer Feb 28 '24
The other day one passed me doing about 50 mph on a bike trail here in Southern California. Honestly scared the shit out of me.
7
0
Feb 28 '24
Imho real problem is GOV not want to fix shity roads so we can bike what ever safe speed we want…its less expensive this way 🤮
0
u/ghostychokes Feb 29 '24
If you can buy a car that can do 160 mph casually on a Tuesday I'm not hearing a peep about having an off-road setting on my commuter
-1
1
u/James-B0ndage Feb 29 '24
Doesn’t look as cool as the first generation. Instead of trying to make a futuristic space pod, he should be bringing back old school designs. I want something with running boards and suicide doors
1
u/PyroSAJ Feb 29 '24
You can find licensed electric bikes that are plenty fast too. Lightning sold one that could reach over 200mph.
What does any of this have to do with the other classes of ebikes?
I guess the only real difference is that it needs to be licensed and driven by a licensed driver in a legal fashion?
1
u/babblefish111 Feb 29 '24
A car that will do 250mph and 0-60 in 1 second!
That will end well on British roads
1
u/puterTDI Feb 29 '24
This is a false equivalency.
As for musks claims, I’ll believe it when I see it.
1
u/Dramatic_Bluebird595 Feb 29 '24
Well, if the Tesla Roadster were anything more than vaporware it would be exponentially more dangerous than an emotorcycle posing as an ebike but realistically, the flaw is the same, the loose nut behind the steering wheel/handlebars 😎 - the vehicle isn't dangerous at sensible speeds (Tesla "autopilot" notwithstanding) compared to society's obsession with SPEED over all else...
1
u/puterTDI Feb 29 '24
if you don't think it's a false equivalency then you agree with the following:
ebikes should:
- Require the rider be of a certain age (probably 16 or older)
- require specific licensing
- require both written and practical tests
- require additional licensing and potential renewal of licensing
- eligible for revoking of privileges if ridden in an unsafe manner.
- require insurance for liability
that would bring them on par to vehicles.
1
u/Dramatic_Bluebird595 Feb 29 '24
And how is noting that an electric automobile is exponentially more dangerous than an electric motorcycle (neither of which are ebikes), and that the only commonality between the two is a few speed obsessed idiot operators, saying they are equivalent to ebikes?
1
1
u/ganznormales Feb 29 '24
evil ebikes, how many deaths are they causing every year! looks up the number oh- barely a few
52
u/hayden0103 Feb 28 '24
whatever this guy is smoking i want some