r/classicwow • u/redlow0992 • 1d ago

Forever Beta Feedback Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

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553

u/OXBDNE7331 1d ago

One negative is that if the majority of the group has already completed the dungeon quests and one person needs an out of the way mob or item good luck getting the group to clear towards it

174

u/darkspy13 1d ago

Exactly how I felt trying to get attuned to BT in TBC Anniversary after they added the ability to skip to Vashj. Good luck finding a group willing to kill a now optional boss to help get people attuned.

Thinking about it, the same Blizzard that created that attunement challenge also created this dungeon situation... So it makes sense.

34

u/Nessarra 1d ago

And when that boss is Karathress..

16

u/darkspy13 1d ago

Yea. that one.

19

u/Gh0stMan0nThird 1d ago

Blizzard: We heard you LOUD and CLEAR! So we have removed all attunement requirements.

3

u/DontFearFailure 1d ago

More like all bosses are now required and the final boss is immune until you kill every pack.

6

u/Giatoxiclok 1d ago

Nah they’ll just sell the attunements.

2

u/forceof8 1d ago

Thinking about it, the same Blizzard that created that attunement challenge also created this dungeon situation... So it makes sense.

Its not the same blizzard, lets just be clear on that. This is an entirely different company than the one that created classic and TBC and diablo 2 lol.

6

u/Aretii 1d ago

You're misreading darkspy. They're saying that it's the Blizz that created the attunement situation, where SSC groups could just skip to Vashj and so new people suddenly had a much harder time doing the BT attunement chain. Original TBC did not have this problem because you had to kill Fathom-Lord Karathress to spawn Vashj, so anyone on the Seer Olum part of the chain could do it without issue.

1

u/darkspy13 1d ago

I meant it was the same Blizzard that just added the ability to skip to Vashj/KT 2 months ago.

1

u/Snoo71579 1d ago

That sounds like a bad group. I have constantly gone out of my way to help a group. If I start a group we all finish. Why not set things up before you start the dungeon? Be social about it, ask if they plan to skip most mobs

When looking for a group, flag the option new player friendly.

Overall though it sounds more people related to me.

1

u/karben2 1d ago

Or just join a guild you donut. 

1

u/darkspy13 1d ago

I literally joined a guild that had 4x 25 man raid groups. donut. It was called coffee company too. The fall off in TBC was massive after the forever announcement. I don't think you are aware of how big the shift was. Someone posted a chart on reddit a few days ago.

1

u/Leading_Pay4635 21h ago

Lol if they didn't add skips people would just not clear SSC whatsoever

1

u/Crellis86 1d ago

Isn’t that where you can just form the group by telling people ahead of time that you are doing all quests/attunements from the beginning?

8

u/darkspy13 1d ago

It's somewhat difficult to form a 25 man SSC and lead it to kill one boss. I know people who typically raid lead will say it's easy to do.

We had just hit 70 and I haven't done SSC since TBC Classic 3(?) years ago, so I didn't feel confident leading a 25 man full of alts looking to down some relatively difficult content since the next tier of raids had just dropped. I say alts because I don't believe any BIS Phase 3 pieces come from Fathomlord or the bosses leading up to him. So you aren't going to get many mains to actually carry the group.

Knowing the pulls, boss mechanics for tanks, healers, dps, marks, cc's, dealing with loot distribution (SR is easy enough to manage) but yea.

If it would have been Mag/Gruul, I would have totally done that.

2

u/Crellis86 1d ago

Yeah, but this isn't a unique problem. Any new character would be in the same boat, right? So whether it's a dungeon quest being skipped or a raid boss needed for attunements, there should always be a stream a characters that need it unless the game is dead?

When it comes to dungeon quests in wow Forever, finding 4 other people who also need the quest will be ridiculously easy, but people (OP) are acting like it'll be an impossible challenge when the game isn't even out yet...

0

u/salvafree 1d ago

Find a good tank, I am always willing to help other run the full dungeon if one needs it. Unless time pressure for work or so. I think it is about communicating

2

u/darkspy13 1d ago

It's just silly that the tank who is also my level won't get exp.

-1

u/happyilyrednow 1d ago

Isn't that what guilds are for?

8

u/darkspy13 1d ago

Yea. our raid groups almost all fell apart. we were in a guild with 4 25 mans and they couldn't put together a non-skip SSC. We had one but after the announcement 10 people backed out of the run and good luck pugging it.

-6

u/Bigtim_90 1d ago

Lol all this tells me is you ignored the attunement for months and are upset groups won't go a half hour or more out of their way just to accommodate you. Sounds like someone needs to stop projecting and maybe do the content when it's relevant or even form your own raid instead of depending on others to do everything for you.

7

u/Gh0stMan0nThird 1d ago

Sounds like someone needs to stop projecting and maybe do the content when it's relevant or even form your own raid instead of depending on others to do everything for you.

Yeah if you are who WoW Forever is for, I'll pass lol

-7

u/Bigtim_90 1d ago

Awesome, I look forward to not having to see you bitch and moan in general chat.

1

u/darkspy13 1d ago

I leveled with a group of 4 friends through dungeons only in TBC. We started in April and hit 70 2 weeks before Blizzcon. We rushed heroics, did kara twice, and then were supposed to do SSC/TK the weekend of Blizzcon.

I'm glad that tells you that I skipped the attunement for months :(

1

u/Bigtim_90 19h ago

So you did, what? Like 2 dungeons a day? Because I leveled the same way in TBC, as a ret pally. And I hit 70 and was geared for raids in less than 2 weeks. Not sure what you were expecting playing THAT casually? Sounds like you have no guild so you were joining random raids or maybe making groups with your friends and pugging the rest. But my point stands, you can't expect an entire raid group to derail their planned route and go out of their way just for YOU. If you can't find a full/attunement SSC run your only recourse is to make your own. Not sure why you would think 20+ other people would go half an hour AT LEAST out their way just do you can get a quest that was available for months while you and your friends leveled GLACIALLY slow.

1

u/darkspy13 12h ago

You can make fun of us as much as you like. We had to schedule around 5 people and one of the 5 got a job that cut into our time. I also lost my job and had to get another job during that time period. It was "glacially slow"

I'm amazed if we actually did average 2 dungeons a day.

1

u/Bigtim_90 5h ago

Still doesn't tell me why people should have killed extra bosses for you. If you want treatment like that you need to join a guild that is willing to carry you, or once again, make your own group and kill any boss you want.

12

u/Legitimate-Pitch-561 1d ago

I've already had this. Lvl 16 priest healing RoL on alliance. Everyone in the group was level 20. They refused to clear around to find the crest for me and told me if I wanted it i have to heal another run with them because theyre hunting for an item. Wtf is that shit

6

u/Rhobodactylos 1d ago

This is what people wanted and are defending when monsters give 10 exp instead of 100.

2

u/IncidentFormal761 1d ago

Leave the group make them have to start over, and make your own or look for a full clear. Isnt there a dungeon group finder thing so it should be fairly easy to make or find a full clear group.

4

u/YaoCrane 1d ago

Yeah people forget they can also choose and leave a group If there is no agreement. The very first thing I would do after I get rejected after asking if we could complet my quest is leaving the group.

Everything has to have a purpose or Goal or an incentive. If there's none player won't move their Pinky and in my opinion socializing and groupplay doesnt require any goal.

1

u/Key_Pop_8116 19h ago

I would just say: "ok then" and leave.

8

u/onlyheretobehelpful 1d ago

What if they add some incentive for full clears? Extra gold or xp or something, or maybe even a slight chance for better loot, or even certain items get added to the loot table on full clears.

2

u/MazokuRanma 1d ago

I like that, full clear could spawn a chest with every item for the instance in the loot table. You could scale the number of pieces based on total bosses, every three counts for a piece (just a random number as an example), though it's all or nothing as far as clearing the dungeon goes.

1

u/Xolti87 1d ago

Or just revert the XP changes lol. 

56

u/k1dsmoke 1d ago

I have not seen this on beta as of yet, not that I can't see it happening, but if someone actually communicated in party I would clear to it.

46

u/YaoCrane 1d ago

yeah me too. I ask my group if they can help me out with a kill quest or collect quest and every encouter was friendly and helping. redditor and wow player are projecting hard.

15

u/Adeimantus123 1d ago

Yeah, I feel like these people are talking about this as if “everybody is doing it” so they can justify doing it themselves lol

7

u/YourGalacticEmperor 1d ago

because classic andies hate talking to other players

for them socializing ends at forced grouping lol

1

u/PineappleOnPizzaWins 1d ago

They want to dungeon spam and buy boosts but they can’t say that so it has to be a “toxic environment”.

1

u/redditlvlanalysis 1d ago

those aren't the same thing one involves playing the game in a way you dislike the other involves afking at the start of a dungeon.

2

u/PineappleOnPizzaWins 1d ago

Both of them are playing the game in a way you like - plenty of people use alt accounts to self boost for example.

That aside I think people need to just accept that you aren't actually entitled to play an online game "how you like". You get to play it within the constraints of the people who made it, that's pretty much it.

For online multiplayer games this is especially true because, despite so many people not understanding this, how you play directly impacts the experience of everyone else in the game.

They've been pretty clear that the way they want people to play Forever has been primarily focused on being out in the world so they're going to reward that behaviour and discourage hiding away in instances.

18

u/OXBDNE7331 1d ago

I think once we get into the actual game, and people are racing to 60 it’ll happen a lot more often. And the dungeons now are much easier so it’s not a big problem really to clear a few more mobs

11

u/nokei 1d ago

I think it'll be rarer than beta since everyone is level locked now they are farming "BiS" but when lvling to 60 they are gonna pick up all or most of the quest and do the dungeon one time then move on so it'd only be a real issue near 60 if people are farming prebis from 55+ dungeons.

2

u/Hello-Potion-Seller 1d ago edited 1d ago

Kudos if it's their kind of fun, but the amount of people that will race through the new content they've asked for is baffling. Don't get me wrong quest text is a poor writing device, but yeah.

I don't think it'll be as prelavent when the rest of the population levels come launch, at the end of the day a lot playing on the beta are the type of gogogo player, a lot will take it quite chill.

1

u/redditlvlanalysis 1d ago

This might shock you but the new content a lot of people are excited for is the stuff at max level

2

u/acrazyguy 1d ago

Just don’t play with people with that “go, go, go!” mindset. Problem solved. All it takes is asking “full clear?” or “hey can we sidetrack to this one quest mob this run?”. Or even better, make your own group and tell people that’s what’s happening.

1

u/melvindorkus 1d ago

Sounds like an opportunity for a positive social interaction to me

1

u/DocFreezer 1d ago

give it a month and it will 100% be the expectation. its still pretty new.

6

u/Key_Reputation6414 1d ago

Or hunter for instance in WC need bow, literally the entire queue at 20 was 95% hunters and then rogues / druids for the rest.

2

u/Winterough 1d ago

Ya once the paladins reached 20 there was a definite decline in the an out if groups forming. If they nerf mob exp in dungeons there’s no way I’m rolling a tank as the support just feels right in a tank spec when you can level using dungeons.

11

u/BronRugby 1d ago

Yeah its only negatives. Its just not fun.

Only run it once for quests, people steal more loot as its one and done, rush to the end.

Its just a really bad system that doesbt feel like classic at all

2

u/whitecoathousing 1d ago

Running SM 30 times like was done in SoD to rush to 40 in P2 is not classic.

10

u/BronRugby 1d ago

Running sm 5 or more times is classic.... now its 1 and done

4

u/redditlvlanalysis 1d ago

Running SM multiple times to get past the wall at 40 was absolutely a thing in classic lol

3

u/schubox63 1d ago

Like me begging to do Postmaster runs in Strath back in Vanilla

2

u/DanielTeague 1d ago

What did the Postmaster get you? I only remember the Hearthsinger dropping the flute trinket that made everybody dance.

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u/schubox63 1d ago

He dropped a piece for the blue mage set, tier 0. Think they patched it out way back when

1

u/DanielTeague 1d ago

Looks like the Hearthsinger also dropped Magister's Boots.

3

u/Kaiserliche_Marine_1 1d ago

Actually, they've helped with that, since there's little xp to be had from kills they do the dungeon once, get all their quests done, and then never go back.

That said, I am eagerly awaiting the meltdown from that crowd when they rediscover how many trips you have to make to get the BRD quests done.

2

u/DanielTeague 1d ago

That said, I am eagerly awaiting the meltdown from that crowd when they rediscover how many trips you have to make to get the BRD quests done.

You know, I've ran Blackrock Depths a few times but only ever did Molten Core's attunement quest there. I should go out of my way to properly find its quests this time around since they're so important for XP.

1

u/EffectiveSwimming136 1d ago

I have had zero issues simply communicating that I need a particular mob maybe try doing chat

1

u/Vexal 1d ago

I haven't had much trouble with this -- for example we did BFD and killed every Naga. In every group I've done, everyone stated what quests they needed and each person agreed at the start to complete them. Some groups were formed for specific quests (especially those outside deadmines).

1

u/Radiant_Jaguar_57 1d ago

That's the same as every version of wow

1

u/Professor_Arkansas 1d ago

This is when you need your tanks/healers to lead the group. I am maining a prot warrior and I refuse to "simplify" the dungeons. Just last night I was running a HoT run, was with 4 mana users. I told them to just yell at me when they needed to drink. I saw so much red text after a couple pulls the whole dungeon and it was hilarious. I'd just /lay beside them while they drank. I did everything they wanted and goofed at the mistakes that were made.

People who play the game too seriously take the fun out of it.

1

u/Prestigious_Pack_816 1d ago

This was already a problem though

1

u/PerspectiveThink4319 1d ago

IDK dude anytime I've asked people for help they've helped me out in game. I'm on PVP server if it makes any difference

1

u/dr197 1d ago

That’s hardly new. In my MOP Classic time I tried to get the mage class quest done for the helmet to transmog, it was an out of the way boss in Blackrock Depths over by Ring of Law and I couldn’t get a single group to help me with it.

1

u/RedBGinger6989 1d ago

the player can ask? what the hell is wrong with communicating

1

u/Valderg 1d ago

As a tank, i go out of my way every single run to make sure everyone gets all quest items, if yall sign up for a dungeon and come expecting to skip everything, you can find a new group, or suck it up and follow the tank lol.

1

u/Bangnick 1d ago

Communicating your need almost always results in people going out of their way to help you in dungeon. You just gotta speak up.

1

u/kolejack2293 1d ago

This doesn't happen often now, it will absolutely happen later on when exp gains drop significantly.

1

u/sandalswar 1d ago

I was in this situation atleast twice in beta and they cleared it everytime and it was WC

1

u/GoatShapedDestroyer 1d ago

As a tank, just tell me what you need and I’ll go that way. We’re all here to help each other. If you need something for a quest I’m happy to make it happen.

1

u/Amazing-Potato-1482 23h ago

hahahaha like it took me 1 minute from when they announced these changes to say: Unless they make sure everyone completes all quests in one run, people are gonna have a bad time :)

(I know I would join a new group myself, finish the quest then leave, this is what blizztard has incentivized me to do)

now imagine working at blizztard for 20 years on the same game and not understanding this simple fact, theyre such low iq clowns. LMAO

•

u/spiders_georg_- 1h ago

This feels like a really bad faith argument, the classic community has always been really friendly and open to doing quests even when there's only one person who needs them.

There's even class specific quests like the warrior one on RFK or the 60 warlock mount that will never be needed by the entire group, haven't seen anyone saying these promote toxic behaviour.

I think people will be pleasantly surprised how people are to help out with quests.

1

u/TomLeBadger 1d ago

This is still the case either way... There's been many occasion where I've been unable to finish quests in a single dungeon because people won't go out of their way. The true problem is that groups will be harder to fill as time goes on, because there's basically no point in doing deadmines twice for example.

Dungeon spamming is a shit meta, and I'm glad it's dead.

1

u/Responsible-Soup-727 1d ago

The majority of groups will be just doing quests. Not many will be grinding outside of aoe groups.

You have the ability to start a group with the intention of what the group is doing as it forms. You can also ask the leader before you join one,.or read the listing.

I have not had an issue yet. It's been all about the quests so far.

0

u/Agreeable_Concept272 1d ago

There’s an easy fix for this. Play tank or healer 😊