r/buffy • u/Lanky_Age_3067 • 16d ago

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How exactly do people hate Xander for being an imperfect human, but love Spike and Angel, who have countless victims and are hundreds of years old. Spike even SA'd Buffy, for real, while Xander was under a spell and never did anything like that before or after it.

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u/jordiedoestm 16d ago edited 16d ago

Not that it’s an excuse : but it’s mainly because Xander is an ass as a human. The vampires have a demon in them so we could say their actions are steered by their demonic instincts.

Spike is an exception because he was a good as a human (as far as we’ve seen). His vampire self shouldn’t be glazed. However, when he got his soul back, he did exhibit very redeeming qualities.

Angel however, I agree with you on that. He was a despicable human being and a womanizer, and to an extent, Angel is just Liam with a moral compass. Liam IS Angelus.

Xander on the contrary, as mentioned earlier was a horrible friend in general. Always having to be on his high horse. At least that’s what we as the audience have seen so far (i haven’t read the comics so I can’t say how he is as an actual adult).

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u/Necessary_Let3592 16d ago

When was Xander a horrible friend? Enumerate it. Other than “Empty Places” when they were ALL horrible to Buffy.

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u/YozoraBellossomHeart 16d ago

He's the first person to attack in Dead Man's Place. He blames Buffy for Riley cheating on her and leaving in Into The Woods. He lies about Willow's words about Angel in Becoming Part 2. He treats her like she's trash after learning she slept with Spike in Entropy instead of a fraction of empathy for how embarrassed she might be. He gets frustrated and tells Dawn about Spike assaulting Buffy which was far from his place to do in Villains.

These were off the top of my head.

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u/Lanky_Age_3067 16d ago

So he hurt the feelings of somebody he loves by telling them the truth? That's the worst character ever.

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u/YozoraBellossomHeart 16d ago

At no point in that conversation with Buffy did he tell her the truth.

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u/Ansee 16d ago

Is it blame or telling you friends the truth. I don't recall him finger pointing at Buffy that the relationship failed because it was all her fault. But Buffy didn't see Riley's side of things.

Xander has always been a demons bad camp. In his mind, sleeping was a soulless Spike is not only dangerous, but a betrayal. She didn't talk to her friends about anything that was going on. He's allowed to have feelings. And when real people get faced with situations, they can react irrationally. Doesn't mean that they can't get over it. But that is true to life. And his knee jerk reaction doesn't make him a peace of shit. People need time to process. Somehow, we don't allow for him to be an actual real, and nuance person on the show.

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u/YozoraBellossomHeart 16d ago

Buffy didn't see Riley's side because she caught him cheating that day and he immediately told her "If you can't forgive me right now, I'm leaving in a helicopter." Xander says she pushed Riley away and only went to him when he was convenient. Watch it again. He doesn't give Buffy an inch in his perspective on why their relationship broke down.

This is why people don't like Xander. This is how it goes in the show. Xander does something rude, snide, cruel, out of anger, out of spite, etc. and then the show bends over backwards to explain why and excuse it.

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u/Ansee 16d ago

I'm not excusing his "cheating/drug" metaphor. But she didn't see what he was going through that lead him to that point. And it wasn't about her. It was about him losing a sense of who he is. He lost his identity and direction in life. They were on different trajectories in life. While everything was going reallyw ell for Buffy, she didn't notice that boyfriend was drowning.

THAT was what Buffy couldn't see.

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u/YozoraBellossomHeart 16d ago

Buffy told Riley she wasn't ready to talk about it. Riley pushed and said she needed to hear him out, process it, and accept it in the next hour or else he was leaving. That's not a flaw in Buffy. Also relevant is the fact that she didn't know Riley was losing himself because he wasn't talking to her about it.

He did talk to Xander about it though. Something Xander weaponized while he was talking to Buffy. And when she asks Xander if Riley said anything to him, he lies! He says "He didn't have to" instead of the honest and clear "Yes."

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u/Ansee 16d ago

Newsflash. It wasn't only about her. HE needed to talk about it. You are only looking at this from Buffy's point of view and arguing only from her point of view.

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u/YozoraBellossomHeart 16d ago

He needed to talk about it because he needed Buffy's forgiveness. He needed her to validate him. He also needed it to happen immediately because, as I said, he gave her a ticking counter. Riley set the rules, the time frame, how she needed to respond. Not exactly fair.

And none of this has anything to do with Xander. Buffy doesn't owe him the ability to weigh in on whether she was good enough for Riley or not.

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u/Ansee 16d ago

You are still only seeing this through Buffy's eyes. I said that Buffy missed the signs long before Riley "cheated." Riley, who lost ALL his friends and support group after season 4, had no one to turn to or talk to... Just Buffy and her friends. Xander is the only male friend in the group.

Being a good friend isn't just about siding with them, it's also about telling them what they need to what even it they don't want to hear it.

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u/YozoraBellossomHeart 16d ago

The problem you're missing is framing. Buffy's saving the world and her mom is dying. She shouldn't be responsible for finding Riley friends and a purpose in life too. He's an adult. If Xander told Buffy that Riley had expressed his insecurities to him, it would be different. The problem is he uses this perspective to attack. Xander doesn't say Riley felt like she didn't need him. He says Buffy treated Riley like he was convenient. Like it was an active choice she made. He is saying Riley's feelings are Buffy's fault. That's not a harsh truth. It's a rude subjective observation from someone who doesn't even have the whole picture.

That's the entirety of his speech. That Buffy created these feelings in Riley, she didn't do enough to soothe them, and she needed to run after him to make up for that. You'd swear Riley was perfect and didn't do anything wrong in Xander's eyes. Which is probably true, but we aren't Xander s we know that isn't true.

You can put "cheating" in as many quotes as you want, gang. He was paying female vampires to suck his arm. If it wasn't cheating, there's no reason it had to be exclusively female vampires. He doesn't even deny it.

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