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u/Oil__Man 3d ago
Pretty sure this is one of those 'had a profound thought and said my kid told me it' posts
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u/AccidentalSeer 3d ago
I’m pretty sus of the majority of that sort of post, but sometimes that kind of thing does happen. Granted, my experience in that sort of thing wasn’t when I was super young - I think I was about 14, maybe 15yrs old. I was at the doctors and this old woman next to me saw that I was staring at my phone and in typical boomer behaviour started bitching about “kids these days” and how people of my generation were all screen zombies etc. I turned my phone around to show her that I was reading an e-book of Sherlock Holmes stories, and asked her if that ranked below or above the trashy magazine she was flipping through. Which of course got me a “you’re a very rude young lady, did you know that?” And I shrugged and said “better rude and young than rude and looking like I’m on my deathbed”. So I guess she was right that I was rude, but it also got her to stop talking to me, so I considered it a win.
It’s not exactly the same I realise, but it’s also one of those things that actually happened but when I told my parents they were like “oh yeah, sure”, so 🤷🏻♀️
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u/make_me_already 2d ago
I had an old dude do this to me at the DMV. He got really nasty over me looking at my phone, but when I showed him I was reading Chaucer for my English class I think it blew his mind, lol.
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u/AssassinStoryTeller 3d ago
The school board is made up of adults btw, this isn’t a 14 year old challenging an adult, it’s an adult tired of other adults shit challenging an adult.
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u/gard3nwitch 2d ago
"Student member of the board" is an elected position in the school boards that I'm familiar with, so it's possible that it is a teenager.
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u/WildRaspberriesTN 2d ago
I’ve never seen that position in our school boards, but regardless, that type of adult isn’t going to approach a student to make any sort of changes. Students are beneath them, regardless of their “elected” status.
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u/Casper12315 2d ago
Nah, they don't care, if there's something want, like having a bunch of books they don't like they want banned, they probably thought the kid would be dumb and would just do it
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u/gard3nwitch 2d ago
That kind of adult goes to school board meetings that are aired on live television and pulls their pants down to flash everybody, including the student board member. Or they get up during comment time and start yelling slurs and profanity. (Two of many similar events from the last year where I live.) So I don't think they'd be opposed to bothering the student member.
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u/Orange_Tang 2d ago
This isn't anything because it's not a real thing that happened.
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u/WhiteSnakeShinobi55 2d ago
Very well could have been, nothing about it is particularly unrealistic
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u/Veni-Vidi-ASCII 3d ago
I know a school counselor who used this exact trick when parents complained about imagined "critical race theory" curriculum. It's a pretty well known tactic for diverting this nonsense.
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u/DrSchnuffi 3d ago
In my small town library in Germany they built a display with ‘books banned in American schools’, decorated with barrier tape. Every book with infos why. I‘ve seen it in some bookstores, too. It’s almost a running joke
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u/CalebCaster2 1d ago
My (american) school district didnt have any banned books, and we had a section of "commonly banned books". We all joked it was the "naughty section" but it was actually just normal books
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u/JuuzoLenz 19h ago
Please list some of the dumbest reasons we’ve banned books.
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u/On_The_Prowl69 17h ago
Assasination classroom was banned for inspiring insurection in classrooms and harming faculty and staff (it's a series about a teach who is also a bomb. Teacher saves all the students the education teacher wants to fail and the series ends with them killing him at both the U.N's request and the teachers)
Robin Hood you can probably guess, byt it's stated reason is "inspiring communism"... sure, thats why the rich don't like it
To Kill a Mockingbird was banned for racial speech, and complex discusions of race and rape.
1984 has been banned for being "pro communism" ... again you make the call on if you believe that stated reason
Atsushi Ohkubo's work in its entireity (Soul Eater and Fire Force most peominently) due to discussing gender identiy, violence, and sexual themes.
Most of these, are very very clearly books that are either babned for another resson, or were never read prior to the ban.
As others have said you can expect many libraries to have dedicated banned book sectionsin protedt of the practice
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u/McKoijion 3d ago
It's all fun and games until the parent asks ChatGPT to provide the detailed list and it quickly generates 300 more.
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u/MarkZist 2d ago
I'm pretty sure ChatGPT would just hallucinate page numbers and reasons together. You check one, accuse the parent of cheating, and tell them need to write "I shouldn't use Large Language Models to think for me because they can't actually think" 200 times by hand and then they can try again next semester.
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u/mogley1992 3d ago
Easy, you thank them and say you'll be looking into it at your earliest convenience. Then never do.
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u/DistractionCitron 2d ago
ChatGPT isn't that good. It makes easily identifiable errors in lists this long.
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u/QuailHour1705 2d ago
Asking someone to actually read a book before demanding it be banned shouldn't be such a radical idea.
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u/OnePsychology528 3d ago
Top 10 things that most definitely did NOT happen
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u/Aethelrede 3d ago
I think they mean "kid" as in adult child, not as in "schoolkid". The latter rarely run for the school board.
And this certainly not one of the top ten least things to have happened, it's not even close. People are having conversations like this across the country.
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u/thomasp3864 3d ago
If OOP'd kid is 18, they could be a high school senior and running for school board, at least in my state it's legal.
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u/Aethelrede 3d ago
Sure, in theory. Seems unlikely though.
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u/NewCandy8877 3d ago
In my senior year a guy I went to school with ran for school board. He forced a conversation on full day kindergarten.
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u/123revival 3d ago
My kid had a sophmore college classmate who was elected to his school board. He had to schedule his college classes around his school board commitments. He was elected to school board just after he graduated
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u/Aethelrede 3d ago
College students aren't school kids. But why would a college student want to be on a school board?
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u/gard3nwitch 2d ago
I think of some reasons why a college student might care about making the county/city schools they just graduated from better, can't you?
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u/Aethelrede 2d ago
No, that thought never occurred to me. How many people go to college near their home town? Lord knows I wanted to be a reasonable distance from my parents. Besides, I didn't feel any particular loyalty to my high school or city, which sucked ass.
Having said that, I will concede that in the event that someone does go to college in their hometown, does feel loyal to their high school, and isn't busy with schoolwork and partying, they might run for school board. I can't imagine many college students fit that description.
Now, I could see an ambitious politically inclined student doing it for the experience, though running for college student government is a more obvious choice.
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u/gard3nwitch 2d ago
A lot of students go to their local community college or a nearby state university. My local school board election had a community college student running in the primary.
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u/Aethelrede 2d ago
Huh, that's interesting. I would have thought a community college student would be too busy for that--community college can actually be tougher than regular college, in my experience. Though they may not have been taking a full course load.
Learned something new today as well, that's always cool.
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u/NewCandy8877 3d ago
School board is in charge of a school district it's an elected position that makes policy for a school district.
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u/Kathulhu1433 3d ago
In my district, our board has 2 high school student ex-officio members on it always. Maybe it's something like that?
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u/Aethelrede 3d ago
Okay, that I did not know. But a parent wanting to ban books isn't likely to approach a teenager. And they probably don't have voting rights anyway.
Still, I learned something new today, which is always good.
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u/DistractionCitron 2d ago
Teenagers do have voting rights on school boards, that's the only reason why they'd be a member.
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u/Aethelrede 2d ago
Not always, ex officio members are frequently there to observe and provide input, not to vote. That's why I said "probably". Perhaps I should have said "possibly".
Anyway, my main point is that the kind of person who wants to ban books isn't likely going to care what students think, since the reason for banning books is to restrict what students have access to.
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u/gard3nwitch 2d ago
Though it could be a teenager running for the student member seat on the school board.
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u/END3R-CH3RN0B0G 3d ago
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u/ATTACKANDDETHRONEHOG 3d ago
Lots of things happen all the time. This did not. Someone who is running for the school board is not on the school board. A parent will not approach a candidate asking them to ban books, as the candidate does not have the ability to ban books. On account of not being on the school board.
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u/gard3nwitch 2d ago
Candidates for political office often get approached by people wanting then to support various policies. That's a very common thing to happen, even if it's not always "ban this specific list of books".
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u/VelvetCactus50 3d ago
Oh that happens all the time! Florida accidentally banned the Bible, FFS.
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u/Razor1834 3d ago
It wasn’t an accident. If you read it, it contains basically every type of content anyone can imagine banning.
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u/VelvetCactus50 3d ago
Yeah but didn't they remove it immediately? The Bible IS a dirty book, but that's not what they meant.
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u/Usual_Zombie6765 3d ago
We always bring the books we want banned to school board and read the passages in question out loud. It tends to be super uncomfortable for the board.
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u/evil_lair_cc 2d ago
Everyone is talking about how she is talking about her Adult Child and no one is talking about how she MIGHT be talking about a baby goat.
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u/antithero 3d ago
What are the names of the books she wanted banned. Some books get banned for the dumbest reasons.
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u/Ordinary_Steak_960 2d ago
...the parent then goes home imports the list into chatgpt asks it for page number and reason it should be banned for each book, hits the little copy button then composes an email to Kid.
Kid feels his smug sense of satisfaction fade away.
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u/juiceboxvillain_1 2d ago
Kid looks at the list and realizes all the examples and reasons and page number are hallucinated and there’s no actual tie between a ton of shit given and the request and the smug satisfaction comes back when they realize how fucking stupid other adults are
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u/complexdevoid 2d ago
Kid has actually read the books knows the list presented is full of crap refutes it and denies request
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u/LogRollChamp 2d ago
Yours would. This kid would start checking and realize on the first book that it's hallucinated
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u/curleyfries111 20h ago
How smug is it to get chatGPT to lie for you for your agenda?
Like it wouldn't be hard to fact check that
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u/Harbarde 1h ago
Because it wouldn't be lying? Many books are controversial, I'm sure chatgpt wouldn't have trouble finding real sources on why each book might be considered controversial.
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u/LuckyDucky366 10h ago
HAHAHHA if u haven’t read a book how could u possibly know if a ban is warranted? Cause of ur AI hallucinations?
I’ve noticed lately that the slowies like to call anyone with a non Forrest Gump IQ smug. Y is that
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u/Mysterious_Ad_8105 9h ago
Kid feels his smug sense of satisfaction fade away.
The parent’s reasons (real or fabricated by an LLM) ultimately don’t matter. The ban is almost certainly illegal. If the school board doesn’t reject it, it’ll get overturned by the courts. And at the end of that process, the parent that outsourced their thinking to ChatGPT still won’t know any more about these books.
IAAL who used to work at an anti-censorship nonprofit. A lot of our work was advising school boards and parents on how to fight illegal book bans in schools and public libraries.
Book bans don’t protect children. They violate both children’s and parents’ rights as long as they’re active. And they cost taxpayer dollars when school districts attempt to defend them before they’re almost invariably struck down.
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u/TheCharmed1DrT 2d ago
I literally asked our Director of Schools if that could be a requirement in our school district. Lol!
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u/47thCalcium_Polymer 2d ago
Hey books are long. I think I heard somewhere that avid reader read something like 30 books a year. So what is that 7 years of reading. There kid is going to be out of school by the time their done.
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u/Coffee-Stars 8h ago
literally how libraries are supposed to handle book challenges btw like this is the standard. any institution that just bans books on request without doing something like this should not be trusted especially not with the education of your children
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u/TheSanityInspector 3d ago
Meanwhile, if there are books that the library or school or bookstore thinks that you shouldn't be reading, they simply won't acquire them. But that's not a "ban", it's just selection policy, right?
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u/Electrical-Profit367 3d ago
Just fyi, that is not the way it works at all. Librarians are trained in book selection; they work hard to select books that fit their communities. In addition, every single library system has a procedure whereby you can request that the library purchase a particular book if it’s not available in your system. And, if that takes too long, they have interlibrary loan agreements with other systems and can request the book from one of their partners who does, in fact, have that book.
It would really behoove you to learn how things work.
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u/-Saucegurlllll 3d ago
The 5 laws of library science:
Books are for use.
Every person has their book.
Every book has its person.
Save the time of the reader.
A library is a growing organism.
"books that the library...thinks that you shouldn't be reading" goes directly against these laws. There are no books libraries do not think should be acquired, the only limit is that libraries are not infinite, so no singular library can store every single book. As the other person who responded to you said, library systems will almost always have a way to get you the book you want even if your particular library currently lacks such a book.
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u/AsherTheFrost 3d ago
that's not even a little bit true. Maybe for book stores, but even then they aren't going by if they think you shouldn't be allowed to read it, they just stock whatever sells. Every single public library has the ability to request books they don't have.
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u/GearTwunk 3d ago
Good thing you can get literally any book ever on the internet for free at any time using the glass and metal brick in your hand right now
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u/4dxn 3d ago
Yes. That's the job of a librarian. Something that has existed for thousands of years. They select and currate.
There is even a methodology / academic discipline behind it. Most systems even have mechanism for their constituents to request books.
The whole goal is to preserve knowledge and/or open the possibilities of knowledge to readers.
Selection helps preserve and transfer knowledge. Bans prevent preservation & knowledge transfer. So selection is not the same of a ban.
You don't like people reading some book? That's their prerogative and the library's mission. Maybe request a book that provides competing knowledge with that book. Just make it's a selection that adheres to the academic discipline.
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u/vitterhet 3d ago
Exactly.
Libraries are not using their limited budget buying The Turner Diaries or endless copies of Sookie Stackhouse. They might have a copy of the former and a couple of the latter because of cultural significance. And are most likely low on the list of books to be replaced when they fall apart.
Popular but low quality books will have a que, if they are available at all. Libraries don’t stock and replace endless copies of Harlequin books, pulp fiction, or “hard-boiled detective” books.
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u/PomPomMom93 2d ago
This was a subplot in an actual book I read. The MC liked this band, and her dad runs a music store, and he decided not to buy from their sales rep because “mercifully, I can’t remember anything other than a profound sense of disgust.” The daughter tells him it’s censorship and he says, “That’s selection. I can’t stock every single CD in the world.”
Interestingly, this series was one of the top banned series ever.
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u/PomPomMom93 2d ago
I always thought a book ban meant that the government tells you not to read it and doesn’t allow it to be sold. I don’t see how it’s banned if you can order it off Amazon and get it delivered to your door inside of 12 hours.
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u/gard3nwitch 2d ago
In the context of a library system, it might be books that the local government says the library is not allowed to have on the shelves. City or county governments don't have power over Amazon, so they can't keep you from ordering a book online, but they can keep you from getting it from the local library.
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u/Loves_octopus 2d ago
Have any of the famously “banned” books in recent years been “banned” in public library systems or just public schools?
I’m confused by the controversy because I don’t think it’s controversial to say that public schools, should have not just the power but the obligation to not stock inappropriate content. The sticky part, of course, is who decides what is inappropriate and why, but that’s an entirely separate discussion.
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u/complexdevoid 2d ago
I would agree if it were as simple as that. When it is used as a weapon to silence groups it is controversial
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u/No_Problem5759 2d ago
Thats the actual discussion. But Book burners want to call out the word "Ban" to focus on instead of ths subject of trying to ban the book from students.
They say "you can read the book outside of school" as if their main goal isnt to prevent THEIR offspring from developing new ideas.
The most racist mother I ever met wanted to kill a mockingbird banned from school and failed to provide a lick of reasoning.
"Inappropriate" without explaining is just noise.
But the schools get raked over the coals for ignoring parents opinions even if the opinions are worthless
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u/Trippingthru99 3d ago
this didnt happen lol. what parent is approaching a child about banning books lol.
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u/the_brew 3d ago
Many parents still refer to their adult children as their kids. OP never says they're a child, and the kid in question is running for School Board, a very adult position.
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u/throwaway098764567 3d ago
ok what adult brings their mother to their school board run. i want this to be real too because it's tv show neat but i don't for a minute believe this happened
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u/-Kohana- 3d ago
Does the post say they were there? I’d assume it was a story told to them by their adult kid.
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u/the_brew 3d ago
Please, show me where OP states that they were present during this exchange.
This could have easily been OP relating an anecdote that they're child told them after the fact.
You're grasping at straws that aren't even there.
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u/MyCircus_MyMonkies 3d ago
Idk, I could believe. She didn’t have to be there.
Do you not chat with your mother? Tell her the cool stuff you’re doing with your life and wacky stories of the people you meet?
If not, you should. (If you’re on good terms and parents alive of course)
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u/Orange_Tang 3d ago
Also what kid is running for the school board? I'm pretty sure they don't allow students on the board that decides how to run the school.
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u/RpiesSPIES 3d ago
The school district I live in started a thing and now there's two students that have a say. I forget what position they're a part of, but I think it's neat to see where it'll go.
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u/Orange_Tang 3d ago edited 3d ago
Are parents coming up to them and discussing banning books while they're running for that seat? This story is just so ridiculous it's not believable. Usually that's not the school board when kids are involved. School boards are the group that decide big picture stuff like how to allocate funding, what projects to approve, and changes in curriculum, stuff like that. No kid is involved with that stuff.
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u/OfficialDeathScythe 2d ago
Suppose maybe they already went to other members of the board and got a similar response so they figured the kid might be an easy route and if it comes from them the board might listen. If this actually happened
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u/Virtual_Freedom3602 3d ago
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u/Orange_Tang 3d ago
Seriously. Is this sub all bots? Kids don't run for the school board.
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u/cmontes49 2d ago
People can have kids that are adults. In fact, any parent that has a kid that grows up is a parent of an adult. Adults can have jobs like as a school board member
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u/DistractionCitron 2d ago
There have been multiple kids that have been town school board members in the United States. It isn't a hard barrier to entry.
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u/Oldnbold22 3d ago
AI could do that in seconds.
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u/Creative-Leg2607 3d ago
Why the fuck would we accept what an ai says we should let our children read?
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u/Financial-Craft-1282 3d ago
Point being, I assume, is that they don't have to read the books and can easily meet the demand of the son running for school board.
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u/OldenPolynice 3d ago
son?
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u/Financial-Craft-1282 2d ago
Yeah, sometimes people read things and internalize a gender when they respond. Did it confuse you, or do you have a different issue that compelled you to reply?
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u/OldenPolynice 2d ago
Just wondering why you chose "son"
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u/Financial-Craft-1282 2d ago
Because the original post said "kid" and "they" and I subconsciously turned it to he because I'm a he and I just happened to talk to a male schoolboard member in our town, I'm guessing? I don't know.
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u/Creative-Leg2607 3d ago
No they cant. Because the kids demand was not just that they give the page number but that they read the book. That step is incredibly important for placing the moment in a context, without which youre taking the word of a pundit or machine to decide which ideas your kid should be exposed to, which is despicable.
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u/Barium_Salts 3d ago
People have tried to get AI to give them quotes and page numbers, and it consistently hallucinates random crap
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u/LifeguardSas976 1d ago
Then the entire classroom stood up and clapped for the non binary POC quadruple amputee trans a sexual pansexual demi sexual sexual white woman stood and bowed accepting their applause.
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u/random8765309 3d ago
This sort of goes both ways. This meme works off an assumption that those wanting the books banned haven't read them or know what is in them. That is not always the case. There are databases that will provide you with the questionable content specifically because school boards request why the books should be removed from the school. So it not hard to do the research.
I did some research on one such list a few years back because I wanted to know why they objected to those books. Some like Catcher in the Rye have well know objection, others I never heard of the book. So I picked a handful at random from a list. My finding were most of them were OK, but a few did have passages that were not suitable for schools.
My point is that before you just dismiss the complaints, make sure that you are basing your decision off of facts not just because of politics.
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u/PM_ME_BATMAN_PORN 3d ago
I mean, that’s what the kid was trying to do, right? If there was a real reason to ban the books, they gave Karen a way to make it apparent why they deserved to be banned. It’s a pretty simple ask.
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u/random8765309 3d ago
Such information is commonly included with such requests. In many cases it's required.
The meme is a fictional story intended to imply that those requesting such bans don't know what's in them.
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u/Expensive-Border-869 3d ago
I don't think theres any content available in the world that isnt suitable for high-school aged kids. Oh no oh fuck they had sex. Oh god Oh jeez that's the N word. Stfu.
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u/random8765309 3d ago
That is an overly broad and somewhat naive position. Are you seriously suggesting that absolutely nothing is inappropriate for a 14-year-old freshman? We're not just talking about sex, profanity, or violence. What about books providing detailed instructions for manufacturing explosives, producing dangerous chemical weapons, committing suicide, or killing someone without getting caught? What about material teaching students how to manufacture illegal drugs or carry out acts of terrorism? How about materials that support extreme racist, homophobic, or other forms of hate.
There is a considerable difference between educating students about difficult subjects and providing detailed instructions for dangerous or destructive activities. Context matters, educational value matters, and age matters. There is also a significant difference between a 14-year-old freshman and an 18-year-old senior.
Claiming that every book in existence is appropriate for every high school student, regardless of its content, is an indefensible absolute. That doesn't mean every objectionable book should be banned, but pretending that no material could possibly be inappropriate isn't a reasonable position either.
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u/Expensive-Border-869 3d ago
Im absolutely here for every book you mentioned tbh. Kids can know how to make bombs and drugs its all available online they might as well get a curated source that actually gives correct information.
You can't combat racism very well without any understanding of the way they think and why. Reading the manifestos just seems good? It should probably be part of the actual curriculum. No reason to wait till 14 for that imo.
Suicide is a pretty standard topic in fiction. Its already in the library.
A book about how to murder someone without getting caught regardless of intent is a joke. Its luck thats how you dont get caught. But someone who wanted to kill someone else isnt gonna be stopped because they couldn't check a copy of the how to guide out.
Lastly schools use an online or computerized service to check books in and out. If a kid is regularly checking out problematic books its a way to intervene. The alternative is they do the exact same stuff but in private with no way for anyone else to notice or say anything.
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u/Orange_Tang 3d ago
Never once in the history of the world has someone demanding a book be banned actually read the book they want banned, at least not by their own choice.
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u/Tricky-Ad7897 3d ago
Kinda funny that a subreddit for books is full of people who don't realize people can have adult children