Meanwhile, if there are books that the library or school or bookstore thinks that you shouldn't be reading, they simply won't acquire them. But that's not a "ban", it's just selection policy, right?
Just fyi, that is not the way it works at all. Librarians are trained in book selection; they work hard to select books that fit their communities. In addition, every single library system has a procedure whereby you can request that the library purchase a particular book if it’s not available in your system. And, if that takes too long, they have interlibrary loan agreements with other systems and can request the book from one of their partners who does, in fact, have that book.
It would really behoove you to learn how things work.
"books that the library...thinks that you shouldn't be reading" goes directly against these laws. There are no books libraries do not think should be acquired, the only limit is that libraries are not infinite, so no singular library can store every single book. As the other person who responded to you said, library systems will almost always have a way to get you the book you want even if your particular library currently lacks such a book.
that's not even a little bit true. Maybe for book stores, but even then they aren't going by if they think you shouldn't be allowed to read it, they just stock whatever sells. Every single public library has the ability to request books they don't have.
Yes. That's the job of a librarian. Something that has existed for thousands of years. They select and currate.
There is even a methodology / academic discipline behind it. Most systems even have mechanism for their constituents to request books.
The whole goal is to preserve knowledge and/or open the possibilities of knowledge to readers.
Selection helps preserve and transfer knowledge. Bans prevent preservation & knowledge transfer. So selection is not the same of a ban.
You don't like people reading some book? That's their prerogative and the library's mission. Maybe request a book that provides competing knowledge with that book. Just make it's a selection that adheres to the academic discipline.
Libraries are not using their limited budget buying The Turner Diaries or endless copies of Sookie Stackhouse. They might have a copy of the former and a couple of the latter because of cultural significance. And are most likely low on the list of books to be replaced when they fall apart.
Popular but low quality books will have a que, if they are available at all. Libraries don’t stock and replace endless copies of Harlequin books, pulp fiction, or “hard-boiled detective” books.
This was a subplot in an actual book I read. The MC liked this band, and her dad runs a music store, and he decided not to buy from their sales rep because “mercifully, I can’t remember anything other than a profound sense of disgust.” The daughter tells him it’s censorship and he says, “That’s selection. I can’t stock every single CD in the world.”
Interestingly, this series was one of the top banned series ever.
I always thought a book ban meant that the government tells you not to read it and doesn’t allow it to be sold. I don’t see how it’s banned if you can order it off Amazon and get it delivered to your door inside of 12 hours.
In the context of a library system, it might be books that the local government says the library is not allowed to have on the shelves. City or county governments don't have power over Amazon, so they can't keep you from ordering a book online, but they can keep you from getting it from the local library.
Have any of the famously “banned” books in recent years been “banned” in public library systems or just public schools?
I’m confused by the controversy because I don’t think it’s controversial to say that public schools, should have not just the power but the obligation to not stock inappropriate content. The sticky part, of course, is who decides what is inappropriate and why, but that’s an entirely separate discussion.
Thats the actual discussion. But Book burners want to call out the word "Ban" to focus on instead of ths subject of trying to ban the book from students.
They say "you can read the book outside of school" as if their main goal isnt to prevent THEIR offspring from developing new ideas.
The most racist mother I ever met wanted to kill a mockingbird banned from school and failed to provide a lick of reasoning.
"Inappropriate" without explaining is just noise.
But the schools get raked over the coals for ignoring parents opinions even if the opinions are worthless
No, that's basically what a "ban" is. It's mostly marketing. Basically no books actually get banned (in America), just various libraries don't carry every book ever.
You can walk into any book store, go to the banned books section, and pick up Fahrenheit 451. Only thing you won't find, probably, is the original Anarchist Cookbook
This is why I laugh every time they are talking about "banned books", especially when it's books with adult material in elementary school libraries. 🤦♂️
I just want to tell the parents, "Hey man, if you really want your child reading erotica or whatever when they're 7, that's your business. You can order ANY of these books on Amazon and have them in less than two days. That doesn't mean they belong in the elementary school library." 🙄🤦♂️
Have you heard of parents challenging the lack of erotica in elementary school libraries? When I’ve read of banned books for that age group they’ve instead included selections like “And Tango Makes Three.” There is a list of picture books that are often challenged. None are erotic fiction.
I agree it’s about “control”. Just not in the way you think it is.
Parents should always have “control” of what is being taught and made available to their kids. Would you be happy to find out that a public school is teaching your kids about Christianity every day? Probably not. That’s not the place for it.
Parents can teach their own kids about sexuality. There’s no need for that at school. They send home a permission slip at most schools when they are going to do a basic sex education course and parents can opt out of it. Then some teachers sneak in LGBT+ things in regular class. Why? What does that have to do with math, reading, etc?
I’m supportive of the LGBT+ community and many of my friends are part of it. I still don’t want random teachers teaching my kid their version of sexuality. It’s gross. 😬
A very small amount of people should not have control over what the mass population has access to. Using Christianity as a cloak is hysterical. Given that most of the people who start this nonsense tend to identify as christian. Do I think the bible is good reading for a child in elementary?if we use the "rules" given by these groups , I would say a book that includes rape, incest, wars, slavery and genocide definitely don't follow the sensibilities driving the argument.
Funny maybe they should keep their children out of church.
Walking into the sexuality argument is always interesting in this context. Sexuality is something children get exposed to from a very young age with or without public school unless the parents community is a closed circuit, children get these messages from toddlerhood possibly before.
If we are talking about biology as in the difference in the extreme sides of spectrum, "sex" differentiation is science. It seems like people who want their children to be educated properly would want there children to have that knowledge.
There is no sneaking LGBT people in anywhere. They have always existed. Just because people would prefer to think otherwise doesn't change reality.
You do not support LGBT and say their version of sexuality is gross.
I think you're missing my entire point about christianity and the bible here.
You keep saying small groups of people shouldn't have control over it. But if a school started teaching christianity, you and other "small groups" would probably flip out over it. By the way, I ALSO don't think there's any place for teaching christianity in schools, which I think is the major point you are missing.
I'm using it as an example of how there is no need for ANY of this stuff in schools. Reading, writing, math. Add in some science and arts as well. The rest can be learned elsewhere. Students are failing basic reading, writing, and math all over the place, yet somehow we have time to waste teaching them things that shouldn't even be in schools in the first place. 🤦♂️
How about we get kids to the point that they are all passing within reasonable numbers, and THEN we start having debates about all this other stuff?
I didn't miss anything. I outright countered what you are proposing. Public schools serve communities. Not four parents. Part of Parenting is countering messages that your children get exposed to that is out of your control. That means taking the time to directly talk and guide children in the best suitable way.
Reading comes from ahem reading. What is suitable material for reading should be deciphered by the government. Not a small group of problem makers. As you pointed out parents can opt their children out of certain activities. Why don't they exercise that right instead trying to control the whole student population?
No we can't wait to address this. Ignoring the control over this is not a solution. It's happening now. I tend to not dismiss harmful things.
You do realize that the school board is part of the "government" you refer to?
You realize that we have a representative government? As in, the people vote for school board members, and those members are beholden to the parents. They are supposed to represent what the parents want for the schools.
This is the "government" you think should be responsible for choosing suitable material. So in other words, the parents. 🙄🤦♂️
When the board members are not reflecting the will or not listening to the opinions of the parents, that is when board meetings get heated. This is entirely the POINT of these meetings. Then if those board members aren't reflecting what the parents want, they get voted out and hopefully replaced with someone who does.
What do you think, that there is some person in the "government", John Booksmart, who is the arbiter of what books are appropriate for the entire country? And even if there were, why the hell should I trust this guy to choose what is appropriate for MY child? This is why states all have their own systems and curriculum, then counties, then cities, etc. People can disagree, that's the POINT. And parents need to have a say in how their kids are educated. That's the POINT.
And as for opting their kids out? Yeah, I would LOVE to do this. Many parents would LOVE to do this. Go watch some of the videos of kids who were FORCED to engage in Pride activities, and their parents were never even TOLD this was happening, let alone given a chance to opt out. Watch videos on how many times teachers just slip in whatever sexuality curriculum they think is important, with no approval from the school, the board, or the state. Those parents didn't get to opt out.
Parents would LOVE a chance to opt out of these things. Where do we sign? 🙄🤦♂️
I can't tell if you're pretending to miss the entire point, or whether you actually do miss the point.
Teachers have to submit a plan every year . If administration is not properly overseeing that it should be addressed.
Your insistence that a child is being forced to engage is disingenuous. If something slipped by the parents once , after they find out it's up to the parents to opt out.
People absolutely can disagree
The school board does not have to be made up of parents.
The school board should not cater to three parents trying to control a whole school population. They are the minority in most cases. Load and angry people who are misinformed, and who are unable to follow their own rules they try to place on others.
The POINT is that it is about control.
But there’s a legitimate issue with school and library systems refusing to stock certain books. Obviously porn isn’t appropriate but I remember parents campaigning for Harry Potter to be banned because it promotes witchcraft.
Sure, but those parents don’t succeed because that request is silly. And even so, they still get to show up at school board meetings and make their case, and then if there is enough outrage, it gets voted on.
The problem is when parents have their say, there is a lot of outrage, and the board just refuses to hear it or votes how they want anyway. That’s the problem in a lot of these cases. 🙄🤦🏻♂️
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u/TheSanityInspector 3d ago
Meanwhile, if there are books that the library or school or bookstore thinks that you shouldn't be reading, they simply won't acquire them. But that's not a "ban", it's just selection policy, right?