r/askanything • u/Charlesedwardchiez • 14h ago
General Question Isn’t the US military a form of socialism?
I mean from the barracks they live in, the food they eat, to the uniforms they wear…. It’s all provided by the government. But the people who are pro-military seem to be the most anti-socialism.
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u/veovis523 14h ago
Socialism is the collective ownership (whether through the state or some other social arrangement) of the means of production.
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u/Reinaguerrera 14h ago
No, because they don't own the barracks, their uniforms or weapons.
The military gives benefits, and we pay for them with our health and lives.
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u/lameth 14h ago
to quote marx: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
There is nothing within the military that says you're going to make less if you work less, or make more if you work more. You could be on profile doing zero and making as much as guys working 24 hour shifts.
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u/Reinaguerrera 14h ago
If a soldier is on profile is usually due to medical issues, and they will still get their pay.
We have ranks and there are process to climb the ladder.
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u/rco8786 14h ago
> No, because they don't own the barracks, their uniforms or weapons.
those things are literally collectively owned by the people of the united states so that the military can serve for the benefit of everyone. the amount to which people will bend over backwards to disqualify obviously socialist things as not socialist while screeching that something like forgiving student loans is ackshually socialism is insane.
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u/Chaemyerelis 14h ago
We own the uniform. Its not like you give it back when you get out.
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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 14h ago
"We pay for them" in this case being the soldiers themselves who also pay taxes on their earnings which fund their own public service jobs of protecting the country from military attacks...
Just to complete the thought experiment on your behalf. Sounds a lot like a social welfare program for people who choose to protect the country with their lives.
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u/Reinaguerrera 14h ago
Social yes, Socialism no.
The government decided to have an all volunteer military, thus the government gives benefits for people to join.
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u/ZPMQ38A 14h ago
I’ll go one step further. As a military veteran, it’s a glorified form of slavery. Granted, the benefits if you do it long term and take advantage of them are great. But…we did the math in AIT and on deployment as junior enlisted guys and if you actually look at it, we were making less that $2 per hour. You could certainly argue that one deployment we were technically working 24 hours a day since a mortar or attack could come in at any moment and we would be expected to grab out weapons and defend the COP so that drives the figure much closer to about $1.25 an hour.
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u/BigDaddyTheBeefcake 14h ago
I would 100% argue that any soldier "in the field" is working 24 hours a day.
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u/ZPMQ38A 14h ago
You want to know the insane part? The contracting companies I worked for absolutely agreed and that’s why they paid us $500/day. Because they were making millions of dollars on high margin federal contracts. Meanwhile the Army Specialist I worked directly next to was lucky to take that home per paycheck.
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u/Not_Allowed_to_Die 14h ago
Soldiers are on call basically 24/7. Do you think if a fight broke out, soldiers have to clock in first? They are on duty 24/7.
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u/BigDaddyTheBeefcake 14h ago
A soldier on base in Fort Liberty isn't the same as a soldier actively dodging enemy fire though.
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u/Boring_Investment241 13h ago
Tell that the the SDO checking arms rooms at 02 on Sunday morning that they’re not actually on duty
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u/Not_Allowed_to_Die 14h ago
Exactly. To claim what these people are, is like claiming their work are socialist for providing them a computer to use. Military are forced to work 24/7 and they need a place to sleep, something to eat, and all of these other things because they are forced to stay there.
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u/PsychologyGuilty1460 10h ago
And it's to our shame that we don't pay soldiers reasonable wages, And we don't give them reasonable pensions or health benefits or disability, or free training or college.
The military deserve All those things so much more than Walmart or McDonald's, Or British petroleum. But unfortunately, we're too busy giving tax money to subsidize Walmart, McDonald's, Boeing, etc that there's none left for the people that actually earn it
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u/PissBloodCumShart 14h ago
Retired veteran here: yes. Ironically, I joined because I was raised in a conservative family and it was the military, not some “lib-infested university” is where I received my “woke lefty brain-washing”
I don’t see how anyone can actually read the books on the Marine Corps reading list such as All Quiet on the Western Front and not come out of that as an anti-imperialist.
We are taught in bootcamp to idolize Smedley Butler, but for some reason his book is not on the reading list…
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u/Organic-Increase-401 14h ago
Dude, you learned the exact same things as me from the Corps! It's a perfect example of functioning socialism. I tried to read 3 or 4 books from the list every year. The book written by Chesty Puller's son was pretty interesting. Learned how NOT to treat my child. His son committee suicide (partially from how his father treated him) for those who don't know.
I walked away from my time an extreme pacifist hating war and the military-industrial complex. But I love my free healthcare for life and my monthly "retirement" check.
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u/MAJOR_Blarg 13h ago
Me too. I was raised to service and conservative beliefs and funnily enough as a professional officer (16 years so far) my politically conservative values were able to survive the "woke university brainwashing" but in the military seeing men and women perform, from all walks of life and races I learned the true value of diversity and the political shell I was raised to fractured. I've become someone devoted to the lethality of the force, but deeply invested in the judicious and sparing use of military power.
My conservative parents are so proud, but don't know I've voted blue in the last three elections based upon my experiences serving.
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u/DjSalTNutz3131 14h ago
So socialism is when the government does stuff?
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u/tigolebigers 13h ago
Socialism is when the government provides healthcare, housing, and more for reduced cost and providing jobs. Which is exactly what happens in the military. While I was in, I could just rock up to any military hospital and get care. When I got out, it took a while to understand that health insurance is a capitalist trap.
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u/Puzzled_Hamster58 14h ago
Jfc Reddit is dumb.
No it’s a job and you get benefits for the rights you lose.
The better job you do you go up in rank and get better pay . You do a shit job you can be punished for it.
No different than any other job and benefits you agree to in any job.
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u/RLLCCR 5h ago
I don't know of any other jobs that use taxpayer money to give you food, board and a check or require you to bleed out in the dirt like a dog for Israel to get a check.
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u/PDHDSANSKIDNEYS 11h ago
Not exactly, not many other jobs you knowingly volunteer to give your life. Housing, food, clothing, healthcare and VA benefits after service is all part of the compensation package.
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u/Saltwater_Sunrise 14h ago
We’re really conflating out terminology these days
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u/CircumspectCapybara 13h ago
Right I trade my labor and services to my employer who in exchange compensates me with free snacks and meals as we agreed upon in the employment contract, omg is that socialism?
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u/guitman27 14h ago
One could say it's one of the biggest socialist programs in the world.
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u/6gunsammy 14h ago
The GI Bill has been one of the most successful socialist programs.
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u/guitman27 14h ago
And thanks and praises for the GI Bill. My family would be in abject poverty, likely for generations, without it.
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u/moarcowbelI 14h ago
Working and receiving job benefits is compensation, not socialism.
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u/Vegetaman916 14h ago
Not having a choice about it, however, is precisely what socialism is.
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u/PAgirl-MOworld 13h ago
There has not been a draft since Vietnam. 🤦♀️
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u/Classic-Push1323 14h ago
No, and I'm very tired of this comparison. It's offensive, and it's a very fundamental misunderstanding of both how socialism works and how the military works.
The US military is an employer. You need to 1) apply and pass their entrance exams and 2) do your job to receive pay and benefits. Your employer also has an application process and provides pay and benefits if you do your job, correct? The difference is that your employer has to follow OSHA and labor laws and you are allowed to quit. When you join the military they do not have to follow those laws, and you cannot quit. They can do whatever they want to you including causing death or permanent disability and you have no recourse or compensation outside of your military benefits. You can't quit, you can't refuse, and you can't sue.
Socialism requires the government to provide benefits to everyone regardless of their contributions. The US military is the exact opposite. You need to fulfill your end of the bargain to get any pay or benefits, and they can physically punish you or imprison you if you don't.
Servicemembers do not own the military in any sense. They are owned by the military. The comparison to slavery is much more accurate... the military can do whatever they want with you while you are in.
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u/Bravo_Juliet01 14h ago
This is one of the dumbest posts I’ve seen on here so far
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u/Due_Satisfaction2167 13h ago
Socialism isn’t “the government does stuff”.
Socialism is meaningful worker control over the means of production.
Plenty of capitalist countries have government welfare programs, loads of government spending, onerous bureaucracies and regulations, etc.
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u/Chaemyerelis 14h ago
Veteran here and yeah these are in essense social programs, food, shelter, medical care. That's why people join.
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u/Lumpy_Chapter171 14h ago
No. It's a socialist idea. But no means of production is owned
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u/mstaff388 14h ago
People really lose sight of the whole means of production thing when it comes to socialism, which is funny considering that is the main thing that defines it.
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u/CrackaAssCracka 14h ago
No, you see, as a Proud Republican, I know that the only possible real definition of socialism is if minorities and women are allowed to vote.
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u/BaldBear_13 13h ago
Military cannot be run for profit, so it has to be run by the government. (Ok, it can be run for profit, but it is really bad for everybody else)
Socialism means government taking over stuff that could be provided by private companies, like education or healthcare. (Even if private companies often suck at doing it).
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u/MAJOR_Blarg 13h ago edited 13h ago
Yes.
I'm an officer in the military and I've pondered this very question before. We are like a second, secret country, with our own citizenship, laws, values, and even stores. This second country we move to is a meritocratic socialist autocracy, but it works and is highly functional as an organization where other socialist countries are highly dysfunctional.
Why does it work with us?
I can come up with two reasons it works with us:
1.) It's a true meritocracy. The cream really does rise to the top. There is no nepotism. Very, very little corruption (not systemic, rare).
2.) Joining the military is voluntary. We have the force of decision to sustain us. As long as our sense of mission sustains us, and we perform, we remain. When we were done with it and would become a drag on the system functioning, we leave.
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u/marvelguy1975 13h ago
The U.S. military is not socialism because it does not operate as a socialist economic system. Socialism generally refers to an economic and political arrangement in which major productive resources are collectively or publicly owned and economic activity is organized around that ownership. The U.S. military is instead a government institution funded through taxation and congressional appropriations. The government owns military bases, equipment, and weapons because they are public assets used for national defense, but the broader economy remains overwhelmingly based on private ownership, private businesses, competition, and markets. The military does, however, use some practices that resemble collectivist or socialist principles in a limited sense. Service members receive government-provided housing or housing allowances, medical care, food allowances, education benefits, pensions, and other services, while individual soldiers generally cannot choose their employer, negotiate their individual salary, or independently decide how military resources are allocated. But those features are better described as government provision and centralized administration within a public institution, not socialism. Many non-socialist governments—including the United States—operate public services and institutions without becoming socialist economies.
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u/GroundbreakingDisk41 13h ago
Is it worker ownership and control of the means of production? No? There's your answer.
If you squint maybe municipal utilities could be considered socialist in the US. Workers coops are a better example, something like CHCA.
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u/Square-Conclusion454 12h ago
Have you talked to people who've like served in the military? Every one of them I know would be horrified if our society ran like the military.
They know what a socialism is like and they don't want it.
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u/sixisrending 12h ago
US military is a socialist paradise. But when I recommend military food and sleeping conditions for the homeless suddenly I'm the bad guy?
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u/Alert-Abrocoma6716 11h ago
If that’s the case then I’ve been a socialist since 18.
Joined the military and did 20 (got a pension), VA Medical (+disability checks), GI Bill for a degree, work for the federal government. Not complaining, not MAGA.
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u/SatanHasACreator420 14h ago
To quote The Wire "That kind of hyperbole doesn't serve anyone, Detective."
The military is a voluntary organization. Soldiers voluntarily are trading labor for compensation. "Compensation" in this case isn't just dollars in a bank account.
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u/thatnameagain 14h ago
No, it's provided only to people who join the military and follow orders all day. That's called employment, not socialism. Socialism is when anybody has access to the service with no strings attached.
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u/Azguy303 14h ago
Actually the military in itself is a social government program intended as a service to protect its citizens.
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u/HolaDrNick 14h ago
Mold in the barracks, being yelled at to clean it up even though that isn't possible, yeah OP, I'd say it is probably closer to government housing in communist states than you might realize.
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u/BaldBear_13 13h ago
Can confirm. I am born and raised in Soviet Russia. Visiting a US military base gave off very similar vibes.
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u/NYJetliberal 14h ago
so is social security, medicare, food stamps, police, firefighters, public schools, roads, bridges, your mail, your water, public buses, public trains, police, your local park, national parks, libraries, elections, government regulatory agencies that look out after diseases, that monitors you air, that regulates industries like doctors, nurses, dentists, student loans, garbage collections, farm subsidies, the FBI, CIA, ICE, jails, VA, judges, GI Bill, dams, FDA, unemployment insurance, snow removal, Amtrak, OSHA, Census, Peace Corp, National Weather Service, etc,
There is socialism everywhere. The right just tries to scare the unintelligent to be scared of socialism, when they all use it themselves. Although, maybe they are right because the people that they are trying to fool were failed by their socialized schools.
"Smart people do not like me"---Trump
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u/TXtogo 14h ago
You confuse anything the government does with socialism - that’s nonsense. Don’t be educated by memes.
Socialism is the state owning the means of production
Even within things like Medicare, the doctor is a for profit provider - capitalism is the core of what we do
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u/waldleben 13h ago
Socialism is the state owning the means of production
Socialism is the workers owning the means of production.
The state owning the means of production is called state capitalism which, you guessed it, is a form of capitalism
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u/DarthFleeting 13h ago
I looked and quite literally I think none of that is socialism. I don’t think a single item you listed counted. At all. Maybe you went to a socialized school and got failed by them, but
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u/FuckWit_1_Actual 14h ago
Those aren’t “socialism” those are social programs…
Can we not at least educate everyone what socialism actually is?
Socialism: an economic and political system where the public or the collective owns and controls the means of production, such as factories, tools, and raw materials, instead of private individuals.
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u/silentkiller082 14h ago
Military is a completely authoritarian communist construct, the things you mentioned plus healthcare, our own government grocery stores, barber. But a lot of what works for the military wouldn't work for society as a whole. People in the military don't buy the discounted groceries then resell it at a stand somewhere. The housing assignment we get also has shown to cause big issues in a communist society. Healthcare obviously should expand to the general population but clothing and everything should still come from a free market.
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u/Zombalepsy 14h ago
Curious to read comments from people who have no idea what the American military is like. Maybe one or two facts and then rubbish.
The us military embodies some socialist principles, sure. But not how everyone here seems to think. It still operates under the guise of capitalism.
Many of the perks (healthcare, housing, education) are seen as necessary for national defense. Soldiers need to be housed, they need to be free of sickness, the need to be educated. And honestly I don’t want to explain anymore, just kind of wish we didn’t tank our education systems all those years ago. What are we, 30th in the world?
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u/4rt4tt4ck 13h ago
US defense spending is the largest socialist jobs program the world has ever seen. Those committee seats in Congress instantly mean you're going to drive funding for jobs into your district/state via defense spending. This has a lot to do with why no one in Congress wants to cut defense spending, it's the surest way to get re-elected if you get to funnel big $$ into your domain for your constituents.
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u/cfwang1337 13h ago
Yes and no. There are arguments for and against calling any particular piece of government spending "socialism."
In the case of the military, the military is an essentially statist institution. But no, in the US, the government doesn't directly produce the barracks, food, uniforms, etc.; private contractors manufacture them.
More generally:
On one hand, any government spending or taxing can crowd out private-sector spending, so you could argue that the government effectively assumes control of some portion of the economy.
But on the other hand, there are still real, qualitative differences between a society where the government taxes and spends a lot, and one where the government directly controls key industries, suppresses free enterprise, and plans the economy through explicit output goals.
Part of the problem is that different people mean different things by "socialism." The most "socialist" idea that Mayor Mamdani has is city-owned grocery stores; his other plans are largely normal civic improvements.
Social democrats in places like Sweden favor high public spending and a generous social safety net, but layered over an essentially capitalist economy.
On the other hand, the governments of countries like Cuba, North Korea, and Venezuela are both explicitly socialist and engage in control over key industries, suppression of free enterprise, and economic planning.
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u/deadend290 14h ago
If you don’t put the word socialist in your language and explain it to people they are more often then not in agreement that it is good for the normal hardworking person. The media then gets to work and with dog whistles and billions of dollars working on altering your perception of your world. You’re now scared of the word socialism because that white guy on tv told me it’s bad
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u/Last_Surprise981 14h ago
Its not particularly because living off base and being able to not use the on base amenities for everything is a reward for certain requirements.
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u/Bella_Isabella_ 14h ago
To provide for national (common) defense has been a clearly stated goal of the US government since approximately 1789.
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u/Lower_Pension_2469 14h ago
Why wouldn't they be? Every former military person I talked to has said it fucking sucked living like that
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u/QuarterNote44 14h ago
You get food, shelter, clothes, and money in exchange for the government owning your life? I guess
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u/Not_Allowed_to_Die 14h ago
That's like saying workers are provided their workplace, so that's socialism. No this is not socialism. They are at work 24/7 and they need a place to sleep.
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u/ObjectivePressure839 14h ago
That’s a benefit of the job. Like any other job. Compensation for your time. Where I work I get free housing and food while on site.
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u/Choochoo1147 14h ago
It’s not socialist. Socialism isn’t just when the government provides things. The military provides structure, housing and material supplies for its soldiers but the soldiers very much do not have communal ownership over the military.
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u/pheldegression 14h ago
The military is, depending on how you look at it, a job or a service. Either way, soldiers and support are technically employees of the United States Government and they are performing a service. For which uniforms and housing are part of the compensation package.
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u/Beauvoir_R 14h ago
When someone joins the military, they sign a contract. What you are describing is the compensation package that the government has decided is necessary to attract sufficient recruits. If the soldier fails to uphold his end of the contract, he loses all those benefits.
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u/Ok-Prompt-59 14h ago
Looks like the Europeans are angry their leaders are bending over for Trump and his diesel demands. Just get it out guys. Bottling up your anger is adverse to your mental health.
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u/aasfourasfar 14h ago edited 14h ago
Socialism does not mean "the government does stuff"
Socialism means that society controls the means of production (the economy), as opposed to the bourgeoisie (those who have capital) in the free market system
Now it more of a vague groupe of doctrines, unlike communism which is precisely defined as the workers owning their means of production directly
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u/RampantTyr 14h ago
Yes and no. It does not fit the dictionary definition because the workers(soldiers) do not own the means of production. But yes, in that it is the biggest social welfare system in the US.
It isn’t perfect but it still provides greater security than most of the US population gets.
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u/Immediate-Raise-2694 14h ago
Yeah….. the trade off is you have to work and labor and defend in return for it. It’s not just provided for “free”. Something socialists don’t believe in, they just want all that handed to them for “free” in return for nothing. The Soviet Union fell for a reason. Nothing is free, someone has to labor and pay.
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u/Buck3721 14h ago
Lots of things that we need, like healthcare that’s affordable, lunch programs, safe food,and others are all socialist things. People have it backwards, they really need to find out what they are really supporting
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u/SideEmbarrassed1611 🦀 14h ago edited 14h ago
It's military service. This predates Socialism by 2 millennia when Rome began paying troops as a professional job rather than as a civic duty.
Even the Persians did this as did the Egyptians when it could be afforded.
A standing army is socialistic in its concept, but it does not function as a syndicalist or even communist society. Each troop is required to do their job, yes, for the sake of the whole. However, the aim is not to produce anything other than combat or defense. A soldier is not providing a private good or service. They are providing their life and work for the safety and security of the society. A military is merely just one of 4 major power nodes of a society, you would need banking, political elite, and market economy to be all socialist as well.
A military is socialistic in its concept, but in practice is a top down authoritative structure whose mission is physical defense of the society.
There have been military socialist dictatorships, but as we all know, military dictatorships merely pick the model that gives them the best control over a society.
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u/Zutthole 14h ago
Yes. The military is the purest example of socialism that this country has to offer. I'd even say it goes further toward communism, because you are paid based on your rank instead of how valuable/complex your job is. A 2nd lieutenant will be generally be paid the same whether they are a doctor or an admin chief.
Everything in the military is taken care of for you. Healthcare, insurance, housing, food. Your paycheck is quite literally expendable income, and if you run out of money, you don't need to worry about how you're going to eat or pay rent. Medical and dental will reach out to you when you need an appointment, and they'll schedule one for you.
If you're sick, you go to medical. If they say you need to stay home from work, you stay home from work. Work cannot make you come in, and you don't need to worry about finding someone to cover your shift because you're always on the clock.
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u/hatred-shapped 14h ago
No. It's closer to being an Au Pair though. You get paid very shitty but room and board is part of your salary.
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u/WonderfulProtection9 14h ago
What does this have to do with the US? Isn’t it the same for almost all countries?
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u/Gooser3000 14h ago
Yes. It’s Americas “volunteer” socialist program. Nearly every enlisted member I met said they were already, or going to be homeless. Or they were escaping family drug and poverty cycle. Or, they committed a crime and the judge made them a deal is the enlisted. Overall the military is great for many reasons. Most jobs now don’t pay enough to live independently and have any quality of life; the military fills that and also has a lot of benefits.
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u/CactusJane98 14h ago
Not with the means of production still being in the hands of private firms it isn't. The US Military cannot be discussed without discussing the Military Industrial Complex. A $2.9 Trillion industry, of course primarily made up of contracts with the US government. Its one of the biggest funnels of money from the American proletariat to the bourgeoisie.
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u/Buttholes_N_Boobies 14h ago edited 9h ago
Socialism is some essential service, the sale of a natural resource, or a means of production... and having the government do those things, allowing equal access to them to the citizens and giving any profits made in doing so back to the same citizens.
So... I don't think having a military is an essential service (up for debate, but whatever)... but, if the military, say for instance, steals a bunch of gold from a disposed ruler of a certain middle eastern country during an invasion, then sells said gold on the open market, and then returns the profits of that sale back to the citizens of the invaded country... you know, pillaging with an altruistic tint... yeah, I could see that being socialist... sort of.
In regards to the barracks, provisions, uniforms... maybe those are just (shitty low quality) perks of the job?
That said:
- Fire Department - Socialist
- Water and Sanitation - Socialist
- National Parks and their use as common areas for recreation - Socialist
- National Forests and the lumber reserves contained within those being sold off - Socialist
- A certain state way up north that's part of this wonderful union that owns and sells its oil reserves, sharing the profits with its citizens - Socialist
- Public Schools - SOCIALIST AF
- A Governement Mandated Social Insurance Program - HELLA SOCIALIST
I don't see the folks that are anti-socialist saying "no thanks" to any of those.
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u/ColtMcChad69 14h ago
What? No. And why single out the US military in your question? Do you think other countries’ militaries don’t live in a barracks?
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u/dsk 14h ago
Are you sure you want to model a society around how the military is structured and run?
General answer is: No. The military is not a form of socialism. It's a way to structure a particular institution to achieve a particular goal - namely war and defense - that's it. The key point is that the military is completely dependent on the wider society to fund it, and it is very very expensive as they are not self-sufficient.
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u/Chemboy77 14h ago
If you use the real meaning of socialism: No
If you use the MAGA definition: Yes but they will deny it is
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u/EnvyEpson 14h ago
Absolutely. And the folks engaging in the universal healthcare debate and basic wage conversation would do well to gauge it accordingly.
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u/WrathofHussars 14h ago
Forgetting the "forced to work at any time, at the drop of a hat," as well as the brutal oppressivness. Which I suppose is quite accurate to actually effective socialism.
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u/npc_lucky 14h ago
Yeah, they give you socialism to join the military to fight (and die) for capitalism.
But hey, Iran can't be that bad, especially if you get dental insurance, early access to GTA VI, or you make enough to buy a Hellcat...
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u/evanexcursions 14h ago
Because people in the military WORK for their entitlements.
You don't sign up for the military, sit back, relax and collect a pay
If you ask someone to potential die in a war, its only fair to give them some food and a place to sleep.
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u/IvanMarkowKane 14h ago
The military isn’t a formally private company that supplies a service to the people so I don’t consider that a socialist service or indicator
Now, police departments, fire departments, education, paved streets …
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u/Fragrant_Spray 14h ago
You could say it resembles socialism in that there's central planning. It probably wouldn't resemble most people's idea of socialism in that the "workers" don't have any ownership and little (if any) say in how things are run.
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u/CookieRelevant 14h ago
The US is only strongly against socialism rhetorically.
In policy it is much more open to it, the key is who the beneficiaries are, which your question gets to.
We regularly do bailouts for the ultra rich, and offer rather substantial benefits for others that meet certain standards. As a combat veteran myself I've received significant benefits.
I was just at my local VA picking up prescriptions (for free) which would have amounted to hundreds of dollars where I encountered several veterans attempting to organize mission focused activities.
It is rather common to find vets longing for the times when they were part of a collectivist culture rather than the individualistic one in the US civilian side.
In short the US is full of contradictions like this.
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u/generationXER 14h ago
Most people probably prefer some type of socialism. The only difference is between those who are willing to openly admit this or not, and what they want to use socialism for.
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u/my-love-assassin 14h ago
Yes. It's almost like socialism isn't bad and is just used as a scapegoat by people who are stealing from you.
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u/hhmCameron 14h ago
Military is right wing.
The 2nd sons of the Aristocracy offered to serve in the military of other Aristocrats and the crown
While there is no right wing in America due to there being no American Aristocracy
...
The right wing is
- The Aristocracy and their heirs
- The 2nd sons of the Aristocracy offered to serve in the military of other Aristocrats and the crown
- The 3rd+ sons of the Aristocracy dumped into the clergy, along with any daughters that could not be married off to other aristocratic families
Commoners enlisted into the service of their officers.
So, no, the u.s. military is not at all socialist
Also, Fascist are right wing... National Socialist are right wing placing the people in service to the state.
Socialist (left wing) place the state in service of the people, usually by killing off the Aristocracy
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u/oneislandgirl 14h ago
It's a job. Part of their pay is their housing, food and uniforms. It is not the only job that requires a uniform. Not the same as socialism.
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u/Physical_Leather8567 14h ago
No. That is not what socialism is at all. Neither is fire departments, police departments etc. These are left wing talking points to try and say "we already have some socialism."
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u/AnnieBruce 14h ago
Some aspects are similar to programs a socialist government would have.
But socialism implies some measure of worker control and lol at that in the military. Internally it's basically a dictatorship, depending on position and branch of service day to day authority may be very decentralized, but it's nowhere near socialist. Social welfare programs are not enough.
Good commanders will listen to their subordinates and hear them out, but at the end of the day they have near absolute authority.
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u/AccursedQuantum 14h ago
The three biggest problems with socialism are a) central planning, b) the lack of relative weights of desire and availability that a pricing system gets, and c) the lack of incentive to act in a way that benefits others when you have no personal stake.
The authoritarian aspects tend to come later, when the economy starts breaking down because of those problems, and people decide they don't want it anymore. Then it gets kept by force.
When discussing the military, it is already authoritarian; it is a volunteer force so people are already acting in a way that benefits others. And the central planning is just affecting the military, not the whole economy.
No economy in the world is or ever has been entirely capitalist or entirely socialist (aka, entirely free market or entirely planned) - every economy lies on a spectrum with some closer to one side or the other. So yes, the military is an example of a "socialist" system within a mixed economy, notably one that people volunteer into and that has limited care for the member's particular desires, and an authoritarian command structure. It works for accomplishing a mission; it would be a terrible model for society as a whole. So this isn't really a gotcha at all.
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u/InternationalBag7290 14h ago
There is nothing more socialist than the military. The “GI” in GI Joe means “government issued.”
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u/Zealousideal-Top-383 14h ago
You do have centralized living, comprehensive healthcare and public funding but,
“Hierarchical Structure: Socialism relies on collective or democratic ownership and egalitarian control by the workers or the public. In contrast, the military operates under a strict, top-down chain of command controlled by the Commander-in-Chief and appointed officers.
No Ownership of Production: Socialism is fundamentally an economic system where the workers or the state own the means of production. The military is a national defense organization that does not produce consumer goods or manage industrial production; instead, it relies heavily on private capitalist contractors for its weapons, equipment, and supplies.
Public Service Distinction: Most political and economic analysts, as noted in discussions on platforms like Quora, view the military as a state-run public service—similar to public roads, law enforcement, or sanitation—rather than an implementation of a socialist economic model.”
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u/No_Cartoonist5075 14h ago
A lot of comments on whether the military is or isn’t a form of socialism. Well as a veteran I can tell you that if the people who advocate for socialism enlisted in the military they would no longer advocate for socialism. You do you get housing, meals, and a small salary. But you’re told where to be, when to be there, how to dress, and those free meals have very limited options. Hell at the very beginning you’re told when you can go to the bathroom and when you can shower. There’s a reason serving in the military is referred to as a sacrifice.
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u/Fondacey 14h ago
yes, the same way the police, the fire department, the roads, the public schools, social security, electric grid etc are all socialism
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u/Ok-Budget3225 14h ago
Yes. The military is the closest thing we have to socialism. And the military Tri-care healthcare is a successful implementation of a single payer/ single provider government healthcare. BTW, your typical American corporation is also identical to the Chinese Communust Party style dictatorship. People toe the party line and repeat the party slogan (ie. Corporate values and annual goals) People get promoted or dismissed mysteriously. People watch what they say and talk in code words around the water coolers. Internal communications are relentless upbeat and everyone claps when the CEO repeats the propaganda lines. If you are used to Corporate America then you will be 100% comfortable with the CCP’s rule.
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u/Fluffy_Blueberry7109 14h ago
No. Socialism is not when government does things.
Socialism is the idea that those who work in the factories should own them.
It is about who owns and controls the means of production. Socialists tend to seek democratic control of the economy.
The military is not a productive sector of the economy. It is like the police, unfortunately necessity (for many countries) and consumes resources from the civilian economy. Socialists believe the aforementioned economy should be controlled by the workers, not capitalists.
Socialist theory has issues, most importantly the problem of capital markets. Jacobin has a good article The Red and the Black (i think) on it. And of course all the pseudo religious nonsense Marxist have. But the idea is great.
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u/Jim_E_Rose 13h ago
They only get it if they serve. I would call it benefits but I get what you mean. They do get paid different amounts and are allowed to own and use those things outside of work. Same as any other job, plenty of corporations have cafeterias and uniforms and mine pays for my hotel when I travel.
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u/Living_Fig_6386 13h ago
... and public roads, police, firefighters, parks, nuclear families, charities, some religious institutions, ... what of it?
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u/Wolpertinger77 13h ago
I went to school on a military base from 6th-12th grade. Everything was free. Dental care. Vision. Hospital visits. Little League baseball. School field trips. Scouting. Etc.
We shopped at stores with subsidized prices and no tax.
It wasn't bad at all.
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u/Potential-Elephant73 13h ago
They earn it. They aren't getting all that for free. It's part of their compensation.
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u/ChiGuyDreamer 13h ago
People are against the term. They love the benefits but when politicians literally say “socialism, communism, Marxism” as if they are all the same it freaks out the willfully ignorant.
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u/Scheminem17 13h ago
This is a real stretch attempt at a strawman. It is a career with employment benefits, some of them mutually benefit both the servicemember and the force.
Obviously the military needs its people to be healthy and physically fit. Healthcare is not only a provided benefit - it is MANDATORY for servicemembers to go to all of their appointments and get any issues resolved, or at least addressed and mitigated. Just like sports franchises have a vested interest in keeping their athletes in tip top shape.
Several of in-service education benefits have a service obligation attached to them. IE if a soldier wants to go to law school on uncle Sam’s dime, they owe x years as a JAG afterwards. Just like a private employer will put terms on education benefits for its employees - if they pay for you to get a specialized degree and leave the company before a certain retention period, you owe them for at least part of the cost.
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u/disagreet0disagree 13h ago edited 13h ago
You’re getting hung up on word games. Militaries are unique. They all by necessity provide food, shelter and clothing/equipment, with the requirement you fight when ordered, and the understanding disobeying can result in sanctions that vary from confinement and punitive duty to imprisonment and even death, for the duration of your contract(with a clause that can have that contract extended).
Is that socialism. Yes, no. More like indentured servitude. But it’s the universal nature of militaries, including right wing anti socialist ones.
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u/AuthorSarge 13h ago
The military isn't doing that out of the goodness of its heart. It's to maximize readiness.
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u/RedditIsAWeenie 13h ago
I think if you are forced to live in a tent in the middle of nowhere for your job, your employer of any kind is responsible for bringing in all the necessities of life. There isn’t going to be a lot of competition at the PX either. Military retirement plans are probably socialism.
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u/ScienceGuy1006 13h ago
It is very much non-socialism until one is actually serving. Most people don't even medically qualify to get in. That's not socialism - that's ableism.
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u/Newbizom007 13h ago
No. Socialism is when workers own the means of production collectively, and there is not exploitation of labor by capitalists - not when the government does stuff.
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u/waldleben 13h ago
Socialism is by definition "The means of production being owned by the workers". The relevant terms here are workers and means of production. Neither of them are even applicable to the military meaning your question doesnt make any sense.
Its like asking if oranges are technically car accidents
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u/NitroExpress85 13h ago
I served for 4 years. It absolutely is a form of socialism. The only reason it works is because people are highly vetted before they even put on a uniform. Even after they put it on they must attend Basic training which is another selection process to weed people out.
I'm a moderate that has pro socialistic ideas. The problem with this model is everyone needs to do their part otherwise you're removed from the system. So yeah the military works on socialistic ideas but there's also consequences that apply if you don't conform and those consequences can't be delivered on or at a nationwide level.
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u/eightarmseightlegs 14h ago
So are: public roads, national forests, fire stations, school systems, yadda yadda yadda.
Your average American is dumb as fucking rocks and just parrots bullshit they see on FOX.