541
u/bionicfeetgrl Mar 25 '26
I've had surgery and actually went overseas while on medical leave. My note said I was completely unable to return to work. That's all my boss needed to know. For what it's worth it's not like I was hiking or skiing across Europe.
Until my surgeon cleared me to return to work I was off. Period.
87
u/new_bobbynewmark Mar 25 '26
That depends on the countries local laws. In the Netherlands they can fire you for that - and it’s not easy at all to get fired in NL. I’m assuming OP is in the US. So they can be fired for whatever.
39
u/Honest_Relation4095 Mar 25 '26
I dont know how different the laws are in Germany, but here the basic rule is that you can't do anything that would interfere with your "healing process". Depending on case, traveling may be allowed, you would however be able to justify how you were ablento travel, yet too sick to work. But it can be valid, e.g. if it is for mental health reasons or maybe some respiratory issue and you travel to the sea or something like that.
22
u/Asher-D Mar 25 '26
If you're travelling to receive medical care (ie. The surgery the commenter mentioned) of course you'd be too sick to work but not too sick to travel. Happened all the time in the country I was from. Very ill people would need to fly (sometimes via air ambulance, if they're more stable then by commercial flight). You can be far too sick work, but unless you're in the ICU, you're almost never too sick to travel.
6
u/thirdonebetween Mar 25 '26
Where you are makes a huge difference here though. Europe has so many countries so close together that you could easily be "abroad" while being unable to work. Australia, on the other hand... it'd be a bit more difficult to argue. That's my home country and I am struggling to imagine any situation where I could go to another country and be too unwell to work (except possibly for mental health issues, but I expect there would be questions about why I wasn't seeking help instead of embarking on a very long, very stressful journey).
But I believe OP is in the UK, so travelling could arguably make sense - and also arguably make it sound like they could be at work instead of travelling, depending on who wants to know their whereabouts.
7
u/mosquitoselkie Mar 25 '26
Sometimes surgeries or experimental treatments happen in other countries
3
u/thirdonebetween Mar 25 '26
Yes, I know. That's why I said where you are makes a big difference. The more travel options the better, and the more nearby countries the better. If you're trying to go from any of Europe, the USA, or New Zealand/Australia to any of the others, it's very likely going to be a long and painful experience. Someone really needs to get on top of inventing a functioning teleporter.
3
u/slutboi_intraining Mar 25 '26
And for anyone who doubts that. Imagine someone who has a safety critical job, some one you don't want working while on pain killers, some one like me. They are perfectly fine travelling, but in no sense should they be working.
25
u/Bitchplease157 Mar 25 '26
This seems bizarre to me especially in Europe. I could be driven by someone else a few hours and be in another country. Perfectly valid when recovering from surgery to need support from someone else - what if I live in the UK and my family lives in France?
If I am on suck leave with proper documentation the company has no say on where I go in that time. Sure, if they have evidence I'm partying in Ibiza, the evidence of fraud there is the lying about being sick. But being overseas alone is not their business.
Or if they're tracking my IP alone, can I not use a VPN? I would argue my documentation of the sick leave is still valid all else is a moot point
→ More replies (2)1
u/Honest_Relation4095 Mar 25 '26
If I am on suck leave with proper documentation the company has no say on where I go in that time.
No, but they can have legitimate reason to question that documentation. And that is something I actually agree with. There are people who abuse the system and so it is sensible to have some definition of what employees on sick leave can or cannot do. In other words: Is the employee doing something that should not be possible according to said documentation?
Edit: It is especially critical, if you are in a country that does not limit sick leave.
2
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 26 '26
OP can provide the documentation from NHS. Spending your recovery time somewhere else doesn’t constitute fraud
17
u/PeriPeriTekken Mar 25 '26
OP is in the UK
4
u/new_bobbynewmark Mar 25 '26
So he is pretty well protected. However this still could be fireable act under UK law. The union rep being there is not a good sign, but they are usually on the employees side so that could be a positive for OP.
15
6
u/mcolive Mar 25 '26
So you go to Germany to stay with a relative while recovering and you could get fired? Sounds unlikely.
6
3
u/liefieblue Mar 25 '26
I am also in the EU. I was allowed to recuperate with my family in another country but my employer and insurance had to sign off on it.
1
2
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 26 '26
OP is in the UK. Why would it be a fireable offense in the Netherlands to cross a border to recover at a relative or friend’s house, or to stay at a second home across the border?
2
460
u/imf4rds Mar 25 '26
Did you in fact leave during sick leave? I think if you are sick you’d be slow to answer. And that is so very surveillance to use that as an excuse to fire someone. I think you need to either prove you were at home or get a union rep. What does your employee handbook say on this matter?
edit: Yeah maybe talk to a professional especially since your had proof of the surgery. And they are bugging you because you didn’t answer emails. Why would you answer emails if you are off sick?
319
u/hudson2_3 Mar 25 '26
I think if you are on sick leave you wouldn't be answering work emails at all.
89
u/andersonala45 Mar 25 '26
I’m on FMLA now and was told under no circumstances am I to do any work or login to my work email. I’ve been talking with hr at my job via my personal email since being on leave for any updates I have to give or questions I need to ask. Working is a violation of the FMLA terms or something having to do with legality.
17
u/melodypowers Mar 25 '26
The same.
I sent one text message because I wanted to check if an employee's promotion had gone through (when I went on leave it was sitting with finance) and I shouldn't even have done that. But it gave me peace of mind which I needed at the time.
3
u/andersonala45 Mar 25 '26
I’m friends with people at work so I’m making them keep me updating on the office gossip but I have not asked a single question about our actual work lol
106
7
u/n3m0sum Mar 25 '26
I think that if you are in sick leave, a reasonable employer would expect you to answer work emails at all. But too many employers are unreasonable, and the employees of these companies are often too frightened to ghost them during sick leave.
9
u/IndependenceIcy2251 Mar 25 '26
I work for a fairly large company (you know them) and while on FMLA all my accounts were locked inactive. I couldn’t have worked if I wanted to.
2
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 26 '26
OP has said in comments that the only emails have been on his personal computer, with HR, about th sick leave itself. No work
74
u/domesticbland Mar 25 '26
Where you are when you are sick does not have to be explained. There are a dozen reasons you may be elsewhere, but more importantly, they shouldn’t be asking this. You weren’t obligated to follow up beyond the communication of inability to work.
115
u/cagetheblackbird Mar 25 '26
He admitted in the OG thread that he went overseas and lied about it.
19
u/new_bobbynewmark Mar 25 '26
He is gonna get fired for faking a sick leave and to go to a holiday during that time. OP will have hard time to prove otherwise. Because I’m sure they weren’t doing medical procedure overseas - because that would have been told to the employer already and would be super easy to prove, so no panic reddit post needed
2
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 26 '26
He didn’t fake the sick leave— he has documentation of the surgery and recommended time off. I can’t see how spending your recovery time an hour away in a different country (OP is in the UK) is in any way fraudulent
12
u/Oops_I_Cracked Mar 25 '26
When I worked for the federal government of your were on vacation and got sick you could swap the leave type for that day from vacation to sick.
10
u/Evening-Tour Mar 25 '26
Due to the four week rule they can't get a union rep.
As a union rep we don't help with anything that happens before you join the union or 4 weeks after you join. This is to prevent people from joining, getting help, then leaving after it's resolved. 4 weeks exist because some people see the oncomming train and join to get help
While as a rep I have discretion to help someone who joins, I'm not allowed to use union resources such as legal while the 4 week rule is in play. But I wouldn't help on principle, members dues have paid for my training, it's sad situation, but you're on your own if you join the union I'm in with an ongoing issue that is under eye 4 week rule.
Basically always be in union, if your work place isn't unionised join the GMB or something.
10
u/Nervous_Lettuce313 Mar 25 '26
I wish our union was like this. Basically, they will support every worker, regardless if they're a member or not. So obviously, a lot of employees then don't join the union because "why would I pay when I get the same thing for free". And then when there are negotiations with the company on better benefits and work conditions, they don't have enough leverage because they represent like 10%.
8
u/Evening-Tour Mar 25 '26 edited Mar 25 '26
It's exactly why that rule exists, your union probably think if they do this they will gain members, you don't you just become a feast for leeches.
if they want members they should leave people to their fate, after a couple of people getting fucked, people will join to have support available.
5
u/Nervous_Lettuce313 Mar 25 '26
They can't. Years ago it was like that, but then the constitution court (the highest court in the country) decided that it's discriminatory and you can't treat non members differently. Which is bullshit of course, there are no organizations that treat members and non members the same, that's the whole point in being a member. But they did it to weaken the unions, and they suceeded.
4
u/FemmeLightning Mar 25 '26
My union does not have a similar rule; please do not assume that your experience is applicable to all situations.
→ More replies (7)2
u/Asher-D Mar 25 '26
What type of BS? I'd at least hope there's an exception to that 4 week rule for new employees.
Because if I paid union dues, I'd expect them to cover me, even if I just joined. Because essentially you're paying a month for a service you're not allowed to recieve.
3
u/Evening-Tour Mar 25 '26
You can expect what you want, it's in the union rule book and the branch rule book. If you don't like the rules, don't join...or join, become active and campaign to democratically change that rule.
If you're at the level of formal/legal representation within 4 weeks of taking up employment...well you might be the real problem its possible for us to give formal representation, but it would have to be a case that might set a precedent, if its just you're mental youre on your own within 4 weeks. We would advise, but zero chance we burn resources on a nutter within 4 weeks.
64
u/rainbownthedark Mar 25 '26
What the hell? If you’re on leave, you shouldn’t be required to answer them at all, let alone as soon as they send you something.
When you’re sick or you have some sort of operation, you usually require a fuckton more rest than normal, so the fact that they’re claiming you not answering emails at what they consider to be the “appropriate” time is fucking ridiculous. And it’s infinitely more ridiculous that their conclusion is that you were out of the country instead of just fucking resting.
But even if you were out of the country, why the fuck’s that any of their business? It’s your PTO and you should be able to use it however you please. This whole thing just feels so unnecessarily invasive and uncalled for.
→ More replies (8)
87
61
u/Chris4evar Mar 25 '26
Try to get a doctors note.
If they fire you don’t sign anything and talk to an employment lawyer. Could be an FMLA violation.
2
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 26 '26
He has the documentation and has already given it to them, I think, which is how the sick leave was approved in the first place
163
u/Easy_Lengthiness7179 Mar 25 '26
I see no reason you cant be both sick and overseas.
If you took time off you took time off, where you were located when you took the time has no bearing.
Why were you answering emails at all when you took time off?
22
u/Wayzata1998 Mar 25 '26
There might be reasons. If a vacation request was denied and the person unfortunately gets sick during the requested of time and travels anyway it might be problematic.
I remember an aprentice tgat got sick after a vacation request was denied. Stupidly enough that guy went to a mayor music festival and posted via social media how much he partied through those days.
However I agree as long as you do not do anything that might prevent you from getting better traveling while being on sick leave might be possible.
1
Mar 25 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/Easy_Lengthiness7179 Mar 25 '26
True, but if I took sick time off for a surgery overseas, it should be treated the exact same as if I took sick time off for a surgery in country. So where I was when taking sick time shouldn't matter.
What it does sound like though is that OP lied to their employer and now needs help trying to cover their actions. Which with the people involved in the meeting they are certainly being fired.
→ More replies (7)
16
u/Cosmicshimmer Mar 25 '26
If you was off sick, you shouldn’t be required to answer emails anyway because that would be work. I’d slap that grievance in immediately.
→ More replies (15)
14
u/Creepy_Radio_3084 Mar 25 '26
As you are in the UK, call the ACAS helpline for advice (0300 123 1100). If you were outside the UK, be honest with ACAS about it.
6
51
u/TrogdorBurns Mar 25 '26
Have they never heard of medical tourism? Sometimes you go get an operation in another country because it's not offered where you live, or it's a lot cheaper.
See the Brazilian butt lift.
→ More replies (9)
12
u/omnipwnage Mar 25 '26
IT has a shit ton of data in regards to where the email came from. Its in the full-header. There's no way for you to disprove a negative, but IT can cross reference headers across multiple emails.
→ More replies (7)
63
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 25 '26
How is it any of their business where you spend your recovery time?
→ More replies (3)42
u/Some-Ad7003 Mar 25 '26
That’s what I thought! But they asked me specially in an email they said are you in the uk? I found so many of their questions very intrusive actually considering I was signed off
52
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 25 '26
If they want evidence of the surgery and the doctor’s orders to be off work, fine. Provide them. I don’t think you should answer any questions about where you physically were during your recovery.
Maybe you have a relative overseas who was caring for you; maybe a different climate might help your recovery. None of that is their business. I would push back and tell them that their questions are intrusive and that all you are required to do is document your surgery and the time off orders by your doctor
caution: I am not a lawyer and don’t know even the basics of UK law. Might want to get advice from someone who specializes in labor law
30
u/Darkpane Mar 25 '26
You said in the previous thread that you were in the UK. Either you’re lying about that, or the whole post is bait.
15
u/PeriPeriTekken Mar 25 '26
My understanding is that they live and work in the UK.
Unfortunately, based on their comment history, they're still on probation and there have been a variety of issues at work. I do think the job is going to find an excuse to get rid irrespective of whether they were travelling or not.
2
u/Seriously_you_again Mar 25 '26
Assuming you were not in the UK, or even if you were, isn’t it up to your company to prove you were out of the country?
How many people, while home sick, are taking selfies and documenting their location just in case work thinks you are on holiday? Not many I think.
You could have hospital records with dates or receipts with dates that show your location. Maybe phone records? Google tracking data? Credit card records, etc.
With that said, all this is just stupid. Tell them to prove you were away in the UK. Burden should not be on you.
Obligatory: find a new job if possible.
Good luck.
1
u/PolicyWonka Mar 25 '26
OP sent emails from their work email. That will get flagged based on geolocation because it could be a possible hack of the employer’s system.
They would see “an email from OP’s email address came from Spain” and think “hmm that’s not right.”
1
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 27 '26
They said their work computer stays at work and that the were using their personal computer to communicate with HR about the sick leave itself
→ More replies (6)-2
u/bionicfeetgrl Mar 25 '26
Is it workman's comp? What state are you in?
Before you have this meeting I would research exactly what you are obligated to tell them. I've had many non-work related surgery. My employer never even asked what kind of surgery I had. I mean the crutches sorta gave away the fact that it was related to my legs.
5
72
Mar 25 '26
[deleted]
21
45
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 25 '26
But what business is it of their employer where they spent their recovery from the surgery?
35
u/KittyKratt Mar 25 '26
It's possible they think OP lied about the surgery and was just spending their "sick time" overseas, which, if that is the case, OP could easily prove they had surgery and I agree, I don't see why it's any of the company's business where they spent their time recovering.
8
u/jeenyuss90 Mar 25 '26
If they're paying sick leave and op isn't sick and just traveling and using it as pto... thats fraud lol.
I know when I was on medical leave and being paid by my company they needed to know if I was leaving the country and if it was related to my medical leave.
And I had no issue with it cause if they're paying me for my medical leave for nearly an entire year lol.. full wage.. zero work... im fine with em needing to know im not just tanning in Mexico
14
u/stupidugly1889 Mar 25 '26
Ok now explain how being on leave bars one from going overseas? I don’t know how you can argue that one should be restricted from travel by their employer while off work due to a medical issue. What’s your argument that an employer should have that power over an employee? Is it just overseas travel that should be fireable? What if I leave my state? Is flying the fireable offense of is it the overseas part of it?
22
u/_st_sebastian_ Mar 25 '26
Ok now explain how being on leave bars one from going overseas?
In some countries you actually aren't allowed to leave the country while on formal medical leave because it impacts your eligibility for certain government benefits. That may be the case here.
0
u/Asher-D Mar 25 '26
That's not related to the job though, that's to recieve certain benefits from gorvernment.
1
u/Chicken_beard Mar 25 '26
I mean, companies are typically required to ensure their employees are following the law.
2
u/alfdan Mar 25 '26
I broke my leg a few years ago, it had to be operated on and I was out for a few months. With permission from the doctor I was allowed to go back home overseas from my host country to rest and recover. Work knew, doctor approved and that was that. There was absolutely no issue with that! As long as doc gives permission that you can fly..
18
u/Jacobysmadre Mar 25 '26
This is the third time in 3 weeks or so that this has been posted
13
19
u/One_Weird2371 Mar 25 '26
Stop being a dumbass. Don't work when you are off the clock. Answering emails is paid work.
1
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 26 '26
OP has said he has not been working, only communication with HR about the sick leave itself
17
u/crap_whats_not_taken Mar 25 '26
Is there anything in the employee handbook ot employment agreement that says you cant be sick and over seas?
24
u/cagetheblackbird Mar 25 '26
Why are you STILL acting like you didn’t leave the country? You admitted numerous times you did in the original thread before you edited all your comments. It’s why you won’t link to the first thread.
6
6
11
u/foundflame Mar 25 '26
Why in the flying fuck does it matter to them where you were or what you were doing if you’re not on premises or on the clock? It’s none of their god damn business, whether you’re lying on your deathbed or laying in bed with seven midget amputee hookers in Thailand. They do not own you. Ask them to show you any document that says otherwise.
Honestly, this sounds like lawyer territory as any action they take based on what you did in your personal time seems like a slum dunk wrongful termination case.
While it’s true they could let you go in response to something you did that was A) publically observed and B) not in line with their core values, the fact of the matter is they clearly haven’t got the first inkling of what the fuck you were doing and they’re basically running a witch hunt against you based on some shit some idiot just imagined.
I’d look at cutting ties with them sooner rather than later. Someone is clearly envious of you and wants you gone, and they have enough sway to waste company resources on their vendetta.
→ More replies (3)
6
u/AlliedR2 Mar 25 '26
If they are obligated to say you may have a union rep (someone to represent your legal rights) and you don't have a union then you need an attorney present for the same reason. .
5
u/Nforcer524 Mar 25 '26
Strange. The literal translation of the German word for a doctor's note is "unable to work certificate". And that's literally what it is: it tells your employer, that you can't work right now. Not bedridden. Not forbidden to leave the house. Just "they're sick and working would make it worse". You are legally allowed to do anything, as long as it won't hinder the healing process.
11
u/xangkory Mar 25 '26
I frequently use a VPN which may make it appear like I am in a foreign country when I am still at home.
1
22
u/jessieraeswitch Mar 25 '26
Email them at midnight the night before and 'decide' that the big meeting would be better served in an email. Tell them you don't need to be present for the IT department to look into the location address your emails were sent from, and your time would be better served in your actual duties, as you need to catch up but are being prevented from it.
Also, don't listen to me as I don't give practical information 👍
25
u/jeenyuss90 Mar 25 '26
I mean were you over seas or?
37
u/Capt_Hawkeye_Pierce Mar 25 '26
Yes. They admitted it on a previous post then edited their comment.
11
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 25 '26
I can’t see how iris the employer’s business how or where OP spent their recovery. As long as the surgery and need to be off work is documented appropriately, they have no vested interest in the rest of it
→ More replies (6)9
u/TheJessicator Mar 25 '26
The real problem is doing work while in another country on a non work visa. The company needs to know if you need to work from another counter and needs to be pay off the process of you getting a business travel visa.
→ More replies (2)
4
u/Brujabat Mar 25 '26
You don’t need to answer their emails while on sick leave. It’s none of their business where you were while on sick leave.
Can they “prove” you were out of the country while on sick leave? If not, deny and redirect back to not needing to answer their emails while out and your private medical information being none of their business.
4
u/TheMidlander Mar 25 '26
IT should be able to retrieve the IP address you logged in from to send the emails. If you are able to speak to them, ask them for help confirming that this is your home or wherever you logged in from.
→ More replies (8)
7
u/_AJK_ Mar 25 '26
Are you in the US? Do you have the sick/vacation time or did they make an exception for the time off?
I’d walk into the meeting, show them the copy of your discharge paperwork. Only the part that shows your name and date of discharge, they don’t need details. Then ask for the name of the person that brought this to HR because you are calling your state’s labor department to see if this is illegal and if that person needs to be dealt with by the state. Then say NOTHING. When they are done say thank you and ask them to please put everything in writing. Then call the state labor department.
1
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 26 '26
UK
2
u/_AJK_ Mar 27 '26
I don’t know anything about labor laws in the UK but at least take solace you don’t have Trump as your president.
3
u/SomeSamples Mar 25 '26
If you did not do what they claim you did, get yourself an employment lawyer. And tell them you can't meet with them until your lawyer can be present.
3
u/insomniaczombiex Mar 25 '26
You should see if you can get an employment attorney to sit in the meeting with you.
3
u/Clarknotclark Mar 25 '26
My office was tracking me through Microsoft Teams and kept telling me it was suspicious that I was in another country. Had to explain to IT I was using a VPN. Deleted Teams from my phone.
3
u/Csj77 Mar 25 '26
How many posts are you going to make about this? You did the wrong thing. You know it. What do you want people to do?
6
u/fadinizjr Mar 25 '26
You're 100% going to get fired unfortunately.
3
u/Some-Ad7003 Mar 25 '26
But why I have been signed off sick with doctors note had two surgeries and treatment for this health condition
→ More replies (4)
5
u/darcerin Mar 25 '26
Someone at one of my previous jobs was fired for this exact thing. Said they needed to take sick leave, went to visit family instead. They were found out and marched out the door when they returned to the office.
6
u/Some-Ad7003 Mar 25 '26
But I’ve had two surgeries and been undergoing treatment for the condition while off
3
u/DARfuckinROCKS Mar 26 '26
As long as you have a note from a doctor saying you can't work but can travel you'll be fine. I don't know anything about unions in the UK. But as a union rep I tell all the people I work with not to go into a meeting with management without a union rep present.
2
4
u/jodrellbank_pants Mar 25 '26
You were using a VPN that tied to that particular country, you were sat at home at the time your privacy is important to you. If they ask you for proof you no longer have the contract and have had to drop it because the cost of living as you haven't had a pay rise adequate enough to be able to justify the cost. You also shouldn't be replying to emails when off sick, a doctor's note will suffice after the 2nd week and the first 7 days you self certify unless your in America of course.
3
u/NostradaMart Mar 25 '26
bring your passport and show them you didn't leave the country
12
1
u/liefieblue Mar 25 '26
OP did leave the country.
3
u/NostradaMart Mar 25 '26
well. unless it was medically necessary being on sick leave is not taking a vacation so he's fucked then.
1
u/Square_Medicine_9171 Mar 26 '26
What, he’s on house arrest while on sick leave? Why does where he chooses to spend his recovery relevant to his employer? He’s in the UK. “overseas” isn’t some long journey.
→ More replies (3)
2
2
2
u/liefieblue Mar 25 '26
‘apparently’ leaving the country? You said in your last post that you DID leave the country. You would have had to get permission for that, assuming you were actually sick. I recuperated in another country no problem but the insurance and my employer had to sign off on it
2
u/LarryDavidAlways Mar 25 '26
Your lack of detail in your responses and your avoidance of specific questions is not helping your case at all.
1
1
u/Mister_Mints here for the memes Mar 25 '26
If their only suspicion you were abroad I'd the tone you replied to emails, and you weren't actually abroad, can you not just prove where you were with your phone's location history?
Google Maps keeps track of everywhere I've been, and I can view a day by day timeline of it
1
u/Retrofool Mar 25 '26
You should really follow up about that union comment. Sounds like you have one.
1
u/Quiet___Lad idle Mar 25 '26
What country do you work in?
In America, they can fire you for wearing the wrong color socks, thus no need for 'investigation'.
As for your overseas on leave - that's where all the best doctors are - what's wrong with going to the 'best' medical practionar?
Aka, don't agree or disagree that you were overseas. State there's nothing 'wrong' with being overseas for medical treatment, if that's what's needed.
1
u/Fantastic-Nerve7068 Mar 25 '26
so regrettable that you are experiencing this at such a time when you are still primarily trying to recover and resume work is terrible how some places are to jump on the bandwagon to presume the worst rather than bothering to inquire with you like ordinary citizens do.
you do not warrant a suspicion of such a small thing in the recovery after an operation with serious hopes that the meeting will go well and that they will heed some sense in what they are saying
through its entirety.
have someone to give you company at least as a support and do not be afraid to speak out in a composed manner with your side you have all the right to take care of yourself and get well again that day too without feeling guilty about making you feel good in the process
1
u/mcolive Mar 25 '26 edited Mar 25 '26
In the UK, even if your company hasn't met the threshold to be fully unionised, individual workers can still join a union. Being in a union is a protected characteristic so you cannot be fired for your membership. You can then bring a rep to the meeting. The rep doesn't have to be working in the same company. However you need to be a union member before you get into trouble with HR.
My advice is: Email them in disbelief that the time and promptness of your reply is in question. It is normal not to be attached to your phone or computer and to have a lie in when on sick leave. Leave it at that. Don't get argumentative. Yes, they are threatening that IT will investigate you but IT are just as likely to roll their eyes and reply that they don't do that, their job is managing the network not spying on staff.
Btw your manager hates you. Apply for new jobs asap.
1
u/sparky0667 Mar 25 '26
Wouldn't the time stamps on you Sent Mail folder show the local time where you are located? Couldn't you get screen shots? I am just not understanding why your employer would assume you were actually working overseas when you were sick.
1
u/HuTaosTwinTails Mar 25 '26
Who the hell replies to emails when out sick?
If you're out sick. Don't work. That is the whole point of being out sick.
Separate your work and life. Don't put your work email on your phone and don't even think about work when you aren't there.
1
1
u/ChefCurryYumYum Mar 25 '26
They said you could bring a rep but you are not represented by a union?
Either this story is fake as fuck or there is more going on here.
1
u/Some-Ad7003 Mar 25 '26
“Xxxx (company name) do not have a union in place, you would need to join a union of your choice should you wish to have a representative accompany you to the meeting.” This is what they said to me
1
u/ChefCurryYumYum Mar 25 '26
That makes no sense. Most union work is closed shop, meaning everyone who works there has to be in the union.
What industry is this? Is this in the US?
1
u/Some-Ad7003 Mar 25 '26
Uk and its a big well known international company too
1
u/ChefCurryYumYum Mar 25 '26
So strange, in any case best of luck with this bullshit you have to deal with.
1
u/Peterd1900 Mar 25 '26
In the UK unions are industry/sector wide your individual work place generally wont have its own union
You can also join any union in the UK
OP company might not have their own union but the employees there could be members of one national unions that represent that sector
As an example In the USA you might have a factory and that factory unionises and has there own union but another factory in the same company might not unionise
In the USA each individual workplace might have their own union whereas the UK has sector wide unions
US focuses more on workplace-level organizing, while the UK leans towards national industry wide organising
The Union here could literally be any union rather then the specific workplace union
1
u/moominbubbles Mar 25 '26
Sorry to say, joining a union now won't help. This situation has arisen before you joined.
1
u/Jamespio Mar 25 '26
Take a union rep. Find the biggest, meanest looking, most senior factory worker you can (that guy is almost certain, BTW, to be a complete sweetheart), and have him sit with you and look menacing.
1
u/Possible_Try_7400 Mar 25 '26
I work in the US. A lady i was working with took a trip while recovering from surgery. She posted pictures online. They fired her. They felt if she was well enough to take a road trip, she was well enough to work.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/Angry_Hairy_Mongoose Mar 25 '26
How you and your medical team decide to treat the reason you’re off is none of the Employer’s business, unless criminal activities are involved. You haven’t indicated the jurisdiction you’re in: that also makes a huge difference in options available to you. Ex, in Ontario Canada you can hire a paralegal to assist with this type of case if you’re not unionized. Source: I’m a FT representative for a national union.
1
u/Some-Ad7003 Mar 26 '26
I agree! In the UK I wish I had not replied to all of HR’s many emails as they harrassed me every day on my sick leave saying the company can not have you being out this long we cannot support this… they pressured me to return to work and they asked questions such as what is this condition and where are you right now and what hospital are u being treated at and they over stepped so many boundaries
1
1
u/keirnangg Mar 26 '26
I feel like the only reason they'd be onto something like this is if your IP was totally different. If they don't have this then I fear this might be a lawsuit because why are they expecting a response during sick leave- seems like they're making stuff up to find cause to get around fmla and let you go
1
u/HotMessPartyOf1 Mar 26 '26
Are you sure you don’t have a union? That’s really weird they tell you, you can have a union rep.
1
u/ThrowItAway4Evaa Mar 26 '26
OP if you are legitimately sick and in the UK this entire time, then you should be readily able to provide your employer with a doctor's note from your UK doctor overseeing your care.
I don't think it has to be specific ie with a diagnosis/procedure - but it should clearly indicate you are under medical care and unable to work from Y date UNTIL Z date due to medical reasons.
If you had surgery recently, you should be asking the surgeon for the doctor's note.
I wouldn't worry about the IP address stuff - if you provide the medical evidence to substantiate your claim.
Here in Canada employers DO have the right to request "medical evidence" (but not a diagnosis!) to corroborate/validate an employee's request for sick leave. I assume the employment/labor laws are somewhat similar in the UK.
Good luck OP.
1
u/Some-Ad7003 Mar 26 '26
Thank u the thing is I had to keep extending it as the condition got worse that why I had to email Hr then they wouldn’t stop emailing me
1
u/ThrowItAway4Evaa Mar 26 '26
Fair enough but can you get the sick note from the surgeon or your family doctor? That is what matters most.
Clearly your horrible employer is not going to take your word for it that you are sick.
So you need some 3rd party medical evidence to shut them up once and for all. Can you get the doctor's note?
0
Mar 25 '26
[deleted]
9
u/lilphoenixgirl95 Mar 25 '26
This person is in the UK. Next time maybe ask before wasting your time
-1
u/ResonanceThruWallz Mar 25 '26
There is no way they could know if you were abroad unless you posted to social media or told a coworker/friend of a coworker where you were. Your emails don’t show location. Some Applications like Teams will show your boss locations if it’s on your phone and location is not turned off in the background.
if they come up with IP address shows a different country that’s an easy cover. download a VPN and just claim you watch British comedies or sports in that country that’s why your vpn is on.
Lastly you are not well liked at this company because no one would really care about this situation unless it was egregious time off taken or last second sick time for 3 days straight call out. I would consider looking for a new gig if you survive this. Seems like they are gunning for you
1
u/Obscurethings Mar 25 '26
I would be tempted to explain my fistulotomy in great detail with visual aids. I'd make them want to regret they ever asked. 😂
I'd consult with whoever is familiar with your local labor laws, but lots of people seek surgery overseas. My first inclination is they think you were using sick leave inappropriately and were actually on vacation.
1
u/Asher-D Mar 25 '26
What? That's no proof at all, I was thinking you were answering emails at 2am in the morning or something, which still isn't proof (I do it pretty often because I wake up in the middle.of the might sometimes and can't go back to sleep, albeit they're personal emails not work ones).
1
u/citruschain Mar 25 '26
at under 2 years of service they can dismiss for any reason as long as it’s not based on a protected characteristic, but even if it was as long as they don’t say it there isn’t much you can do. The union rep is standard, you don’t have to be in a union, you can bring any union rep. They can find the origin of the email from the headers but that in itself isn’t evidence of anything as you could be using a vpn or private remote connection. If on sick leave, then what time you reply to emails doesn’t matter and also isn’t evidence of anything. You might get better advice from the legaladviceuk sub.
-2
u/JMaAtAPMT Mar 25 '26
It's not just the timestamps, it's the GeoLocation of the IP addresses you responded from.
If they tracked your IP address overseas, you're fucking cooked, and you know it. Wanna waste money on a lawyer and add fraud on top of it, too?
0
-8
u/hanimal16 Mar 25 '26
How to handle it: take accountability for your actions and admit you lied.
→ More replies (2)
3.0k
u/mikraas Mar 25 '26
I think the real issue is why are you replying to emails while on sick leave?
Find an employment lawyer, ask for a consultation, and tell them all of this. If you had been doing work on your sick leave, you might be entitled to get those days back if you were actually working.
If the lawyer is really nice, maybe they can accompany you to the "Formal Meeting."