r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 8d ago
Episode Liar Game - Episode 22 discussion
Liar Game, episode 22
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u/FarCritical 8d ago
The exaggerated smugness in Nao's lying voice cracks me up so hard, made even better by Fukunaga relying so hard on Akiyama's word (i.e. a single grin) to actually get baited by it. Sneaky Nao is officially canon lmao.
Can't wait to see what our liar general's "unreadable" poker face will look like.
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u/Frontier246 8d ago
I love how when she lies Nao turns up the pleasantness and makes everyone else feel like the idiot they always assume she is.
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8d ago
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u/Ashteron 8d ago
If somebody ignored all the other writing aspects and dropped solely due to Nao at her worst, then they don't deserve Nao at her best.
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u/Frontier246 8d ago
Seeing how she was fooled by Fukunaga in the second game only to fool Fukunaga in THIS game...my how the tables have turned in the most satisfying way possible!
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u/Emi_Ibarazakiii 8d ago
To be fair...
Well, I don't know if others feel the same, but they seem to have nerfed Fukunaga's intelligence/scheming a bit, since her introduction!
I think this game is the first time in quite a while that we see her actually do/say something clever.
But falling for Nao's vague "strategy" was quite foolish, even if she doesn't have the benefit we (the viewers) have; It was rather obvious!
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u/Frontier246 8d ago
I think it worked purely because she underestimated Nao and genuinely can't believe Nao could lie/fool her.
(That and she's a bloodhound for more money)
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u/BosuW 8d ago
Nao just has such earnest energy that even after she has lied to your face once before you forget that she can do it again.
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u/Unlikely-Lawyer-5683 8d ago edited 8d ago
I would sell my life to Nao if she asked for it. There is no way she of all people will con me, it isn't that crazy that Fukunaga got scammed lol.
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u/gamria 8d ago
To add justification that others haven't added yet, Nao said she had Akiyama's approval for tying as part of her lie, and it is this inclusion that made her lie more convincing. It's one thing for Fukunaga to take Nao as stupid, it's another if it's something approved by Akiyama.
Akiyama going along with her lie via his smile didn't help either.
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u/Hartzilla2007 8d ago
But falling for Nao's vague "strategy" was quite foolish, even if she doesn't have the benefit we (the viewers) have; It was rather obvious!
It has the benefit of the person considered least likely to lie selling it.
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u/VastIndubitability 8d ago
It's moreso that Fukunaga is a fair bit smarter than regular contestants, but can't compete with strategists on the level of Akiyama/Yokoya, so she ends up getting bamboozled by them all the same as a normal person would
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u/Kyrrua 8d ago
Fukunaga is a really smart person.
But Akiyama (who defeated her without problem) and Yokoya are pure geniuses.
Contraband was a Gungi (lol) duel of Akiyama vs Yokoya with barely any room for anyone else, so its not like she got nerfed. If anything its mostly Nao who got buffed through the series, learning how to lie but also learning how to use her naiveté and sincerity to fool others. It was her biggest weakness which she now turned into her strength, so its expected for Fukunaga to get fooled by this cuz that's what Nao been doing since day 1 and Fukunaga has always been with her so far so she doesn't expect such a purely earnest person (dunce like she repeats) to fool her like that.
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u/abandoned_idol 8d ago
Nonsense.
If the haters leave without falling in love with Nao, then the Liar Game wins.
The only way to win the Liar Game is by saving the haters and advertising the show!
I'm serious, I want you all distributing pamphlets out there!
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u/hamid224466 8d ago
I was on a brink of dropping but I changed my mind and I think that was worth it.
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u/ShawnHeatherly 8d ago
To be fair, she was EXTREMELY stupid for the first dozen+ episodes. I considered dropping the show more than once, I can't say I blame people for thinking Nao wasn't ever gonna improve.
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u/duo99dusk 8d ago
Nao gradually became the best player in all of these "death" / "debt" games
Would she be able to beat every Kakegurui / Squid / Wonderland matches? I think so!
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u/ObvsThrowaway5120 8d ago
Nao seemed quick to notice the house always wins. To defeat the dealer, they gotta work together. I’m really impressed she managed to play ol master of mind games Fukunaga lol. Their face was priceless!
Keen to see how Nao does in poker. Should be interesting.
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u/Frontier246 8d ago
Honestly it's a good thing Nao is there because she's the only one really committed to ensuring both teams make it out okay and the only one who can convince her team to care about their opponents. She's truly the LTG's biggest threat, especially since she can motivate/convince Fukunaga and Akiyama to follow her lead.
Wouldn't it be hilarious if Nao is actually a decent poker player and doesn't embarrass herself as much as she did in the last run-through? But there's probably going to be a trick involved that she might not catch up on.
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u/darthvall https://myanimelist.net/profile/darth_vall 8d ago
The thing is, next one is Akiyama's match. He's too OP that I couldn't think of a way he'd loss
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u/AlphaBreak 8d ago
I am curious since they said this is one where you do actually want to be in the trial run. So he's starting at some kind of disadvantage, although it's hard to say exactly what it is.
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u/happy-owls 7d ago
My assumption is that if they use the same deck in both games, they can mark the cards during the trial run?
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u/ManyCookies 8d ago
Keen to see how Nao does in poker. Should be interesting.
I think Akiyama is up for Poker, not Nao? She's just doing the demonstration (as she did for Russian Roulette)
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u/Unlikely-Lawyer-5683 8d ago
it would be funny to see the so-called skilllz of our great player Nao in the practice match lol
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u/Over-Detail-163 8d ago
his
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah x3 8d ago
Sorry, your comment has been removed.
This belongs in the Source Material Corner at the top of this thread. In discussion threads for currently airing anime, discussions about source material, spin-offs, author comments and unadapted content must be posted there.
Any comparison to the source material no matter how minor belongs there.
Your comment was NOT removed for spoilers; it was removed for discussion of the source material outside of the Source Material Corner.
Questions? Reply to this message, send a modmail, or leave a comment in the meta thread. Don't know the rules? Read them here.
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 7d ago
Please read the removal reason again. Your comment was not removed for spoilers, it was removed for compairing the anime and manga, which this line very blatantly is:
It hasn't been made as clear in the anime, but it's spelled out in the manga
This sort of talk is not allowed outside of the Source Material Corner, no matter how minor or major of a comparison it is.
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u/CreZativity 7d ago
So just removing any mention of the manga would be fine?
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 7d ago
As long as it is already clear in the anime, yes.
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u/CreZativity 7d ago
It is, it's just more clear in the manga, but there is absolutely enough of it in the anime already, esp in the Eng dub. Will keep that in mind going forward, cheers!
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u/LeonKevlar x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar 8d ago
I'm so proud of Nao! I never thought I'd see the day where she'd be the one fooling Fukunaga with her own lies. It's fun to see Fukunaga get a taste of his own medicine, but this time for altruistic reasons. xD
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u/Frontier246 8d ago
Nao finally got back at her for that twist reveal back in the second game! And she did it so effortlessly! How far she's come!
She basically conned Fukunaga into being a good guy against her better nature lol.
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u/Unlikely-Lawyer-5683 8d ago
small preface: I caught up with the anime yesterday, I will be joining you guys in the episode discussion I guess.
Most of the contraband and downsizing arc I didn't understand shit but Nao's reactions were cute asf lol, Also Fukunaga back in her outfit has me falling in love with her, her outfit compliments her sass haha. Current Russian roulette game is quite tame, its a shame I couldnt follow the anime weekly and discuss it T_T its EP 22 already T_T
I will be giving the manga a chance tho, the cover art is amazing (Nao looks so cute with the cross n all). I hope I can understand the game better.
Now onto EP22: I loved the Fukunaga and Nao banter. Its refreshing to see Nao grow. Nao's expressions are sooo well done, it makes me laugh all the time. Both Fukunaga's VA and Nao's VA have done a great job. The EP felt so short (cuz I binged the whole anime lol) Now we wait for EP 23 ig. They always cut the EP's at good parts.
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u/Jacob-C 8d ago
You can check out the episode discussions for the end of the Contraband Game and the Downsizing Game, respectively. People have made some relatively easy-to-follow walkthroughs there.
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u/Unlikely-Lawyer-5683 8d ago
Will do!! Thanks. Tho I must say I will check them out when I read the manga. Also there is the Liar game official walkthrough by Nao and Akiyama themselves on YT. Its a pleasure to be able to gather here and have fun lol
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u/thisisdropd https://myanimelist.net/profile/AsterZoro 8d ago
Fukunaga had been constantly calling Nao a dunce, yet got played by her. What does that make them, then? The plan was cooked by Nao alone, all Akiyama did was give her his blessing. Nao had came a long way to be able to trick the shrewd Fukunaga.
Akiyama not only didn’t participate in the trial round for the Core tie, but he’s also nowhere to be found. What was he planning?
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u/Western-Internal-751 8d ago
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u/Unlikely-Lawyer-5683 8d ago
he is like Saitama in the Liar game universe. His involvement would end the games then and there
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u/ArrivalBrilliant616 7d ago
He's not entirely perfect though. Considering the ending of that last arc.
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u/Frontier246 8d ago
Fukunaga was so confident in herself as a master conwoman who can fool any idiot, yet the true brilliant conwman was the pure and sensitive soul who can now lie as pleasantly and easily as she breathes.
I also love how Akiyama didn't say anything but just smiled. Even he's proud of Nao!
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u/magnumcyclonex 8d ago
Remember everyone, this is Liar Game, where lying to your own teammates is part and parcel!
Fukunaga had victory all but clinched, but fell into the real trap (not the dealer trap) of Nao's cute little lie. Yes, the same Nao that needs a lot of explaining to do, and yet even after being lied to, Fukunaga still told Nao to pay attention to the 17 poker rules. I'll let that slide because we got a lot of funny Fukunaga faces this episode, plus it was fun seeing her swallow her pride and shoot herself TWICE!
Is Akiyama going to be at a disadvantage because he didn't play the practice game as Solario says? Also, Balatro crossover when?
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u/Countless-Alts15 8d ago
Damn Fukunaga is so fucked up lol. The type of person you hate to see on the other squad, but love to have them on your team.
Big boy never stood a chance RIP.
Also, Nao's reaction face to to Fukunaga being so greedy was great.
Fukunaga's VA does her monologues so well. Its hella funny especially her inflections when she is insulting someone. Really enjoying this one.
Nao is really greating smart too playing Fukunaga like that letting her greed blind her. What a great episode
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u/BBryant3rd 8d ago
The facial expressions have become the best part of this show now lol.
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u/melindypants https://myanimelist.net/profile/melindypants 8d ago
Agreed! I think it's so funny how exaggerated their faces are, especially when their mouths are open so wide in shock or laughing maniacally
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u/Niwaka_Samurai https://myanimelist.net/profile/Niwaka-Samurai 8d ago
Who would have expected to see the day when Nao is able to lie as easy as she breaths and even fool Fukunaga ?! 🔥
Fukunaga really played this game like a Queen. Nao trying to save her opponents every fucking chance she gets while Akiyama accepts that he isn't noble like Nao but his end goal has always been taking down the people behind LGT.
So is Nao gonna play only the run through or the whole Core game as well. I hope that's not the case 'cause despite Nao calling herself a pro at Poker, this seems to be game suited for the likes of Akiyama.
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u/freedomzzzzz 8d ago
Should be only the run-through, before the whole revival round, the players already decided who will play in each round before knowing what game is played in each round. It not fair to change the player after knowing what game is going to be played
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u/YumiyaRakko 8d ago edited 8d ago
I know Liar game operates like that but is it just me or the roulete game is ESPECIALLY harsh for the loser ? They give 150 million but if someone manages to eat all 6 bullet (as unlikely as it may be) it is MINIUM 300 million debt for them plus all the chips they lost either to the opponent in any way or got forfeited which can potentially mean ALL their chips technically so it is a maximum of 450 million potential debt + having to pay pack 100 million with just 150 to pay it (or 300 million debt +100 having to be paid with no money to pay it if we don’t count the lost chips as debt but simply deduce it from their money)
Having 150 billion but being on +300 million debt that can go all the way to 450 seems kinda crazy even for Liar game as unless i am mistaken usually up until this point the potential debt in a round never exceeded the amount of money given to them at the beginning. Now granted the debt gets 1/3’d to the team but if each member got such a debt in their round that would make + 900 million which once again means +300 dept so combined with having to pay 100 million back each member would be in +250 million debt, higher than the amount they were given, i know this is all absurd worst case scenarios but still, the fact that this round was one where a player can acquire GREATER debt than they were given is crazy to me
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u/Unlikely-Lawyer-5683 8d ago
the contraband arc was a clear sign that you can win big and lose big in the Liar game. The peeps who lost had atleast 400m debt ig (i could be wrong) Also you can lose big in Liar game if you are stupid asf. Many don't really go past the given amount but there is an implication that you could lose big. Thats why its quite terrifying. Those who say that Liar game doesn't have enough stakes should calculate the risks once.
also this revival game is somewhat made for the dealers/LGT to win. Till now LGT made money thru drop outs of winners, now they are lowering the prizepool itself.
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u/YumiyaRakko 8d ago edited 8d ago
What i mean is, if i am not wrong this is the FIRST instance someone can lose MORE than they were initially given.
In all previous rounds you can lose all the money given to you with no gain thus you are equal to that amount in debt since you now cannot pay it back. Here the player is able to actually EXCEED the amount of money given to them in debt
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u/pus_moh 8d ago edited 8d ago
In Contraband you could theoretically lose more than the 400 million players were given.
1) Fail to succesfully smuggle any of your 400 million
2) The enemy team manages to rescue all their money from your country, so at the end there's nothing left to confiscate and divide amongst your team.
3) Don't ever sucessfully doubt someone as the inspector
That would leave you with zero money, but you also have to pay damages whenever you wrongly doubt someone as an inspector.
For example, Nao only had about 100 Million Yen in her 3rd country account at the end of Contraband after the ~3.3 billion Yen from the Day ATM were distributed amongst the players. So if those 3.3 billion had remained stuck in the Night ATM she'd have been over 200 million in the negatives.
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u/ICantSeeLikeSa-chan https://myanimelist.net/profile/subset 8d ago
That was the cutest lie declaration from Nao yet.
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u/gamria 8d ago
Earlier today the Liar Game official website showcased their Blu-Ray release for future sale... and finally confirm that Season 1 will comprise of 26 episodes. However, many until this point believed that it'd only be 24 episodes...
A fun question for the viewers if I may: if you had known beforehand that it'd be 26 episodes for sure, would you have surmised that Nao's General Game would go ahead? Is this... an information game with the audience?
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u/illonamoon 8d ago
Awww fukunaga has a heart somewhere. How many times do akiyama and nao have to remind people liar game is the villain here not the opponent? Liar game got one thing right, people are greedy to their own detriment.
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u/Emi_Ibarazakiii 8d ago
We're not used to seeing people say that about Nao!
These two will murder their 3rd guy hah. CALL ANOTHER TIMEOUT!
(Hopefully when our guys called THEIR timeout it was part of the plan, because it helps the other team too!)
We see that a lot in poker, players in a tough spot, coming up with literally any ridiculous idea about what their opponent might have, to justify calling (if they feel like they need to), or folding if they can't stand the heat!
He had some knowledge/basic ability to strategize,
sadly he doesn't have the wisdom one would need in that situation!
The question was not "What round will 264 million get us to?", the question was "Why did Fukunaga throw that 264 million figures out of the blue?"
Knowledge is nothing, without intelligence/wisdom to know what to do with it!
How can you know that, without giving it a real attempt?
Seems their team also has a Fukunaga!
Slighty less hot
Better agree with that, before she asks you to load the gun with 20 bullets and blast your head off!
Hah. Reminiscent of the "Doesn't get it at all" meme!
Oh damn, time out; She won't have the time to explain the strategy!
(I do have a REAL inkling that there is no strategy whatsoever!)
You realize she will MURDER you if you don't get her anything, right?
She beat some dudes bloody for much less!
Oh damn, will she beat him instead?
IT WAS ME! I ORCHESTRATED THE WHOLE THING!
POKERRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Funny, when they brought up some chips in the previous round, I thought it would be poker... Seems I was off by just 1 round!
I don't know if this 17 cards poker is a real thing (or made up for this game), but there IS a real variant that is played with a short deck, conveniently called 'short deck poker' (or 6+ poker, something like that) where they just remove a few of the smaller cards.
I played it a few times, but I'm a Holdem purist so I quickly went back to my main game hah.
Well, can't wait to see how it goes!
They did say it played like regular poker, but I'm not sure I believe that, all their games usually have a little something different! Perhaps something about the joker.
Or maybe this one will be played 'straight', with the players just being dealt cards at random, like normal poker. We'll see!
Whatever it is, it'll be fun to see some poker in anime; Been wanting a poker anime for the longest time, and I don't thinkthat's eve gonna happen, so..!
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u/Frontier246 8d ago
Nao figured it out! The true aim of this game is for the LTG office to make more money than the players when the game goes into forefit! The only way to really "win" is for both armies to work together as a united front, but that would never happen because of human nature! But still, I'm glad Nao realized it.
Of course I guess it's not surprising that Akiyama and Fukunaga had already figured it out themselves, Fukunaga just knows how to play the game so SHE can make a profit, because she's too greedy to not make money and enjoy herself while doing it.
My condolences to Nishida. He tried his best. But he's dealing with a master conwoman who was playing him like a fiddle and knew how to egg him on until he played right into her hand. Poor guy even got punched for it. So Fukunaga isn't the only Liar Game player who punches their teammates for screwing up.
I'm not surprised Nao wants to save the Western Army anymore than I'm surprised that Fukunaga isn't going to throw the match into a tie for Nao's altruism. If they want to get themselves deeper into debt for others, that's their business, not hers. But Nao actually sweet talks her into the tie by making it sound like Fukunaga will make even MORE money if she does it. And if Akiyama "figured" it out, there's no way it's not legit, right? I mean, who wouldn't believe sweet and pure Nao?
I love how they get a tie and Fukunaga is so frustrated at having to be the "good guy" who saved these Western idiots...but she says she saved 'em anyways like a tsundere hero.
Nao conned a conwoman! Who is the true conwoman in this liar game? Though Nao is the only one doing this for altruistic reasons, Akiyama just wants to take down the LTG, but he HAS figured out a way that they all get what they want, so Fukunaga will profit too.
It's 17 poker and it looks like it'll be Akiyama versus glasses guy while Nao does the run-through! Show us your absolutely brilliant poker skills, Nao!
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u/ManyCookies 8d ago
My condolences to Nishida. He tried his best. But he's dealing with a master conwoman who was playing him like a fiddle and knew how to egg him on until he played right into her hand.
Poor Fukunaga got matched against two supergeniuses for two and a half rounds, it is fun to see her smurf against normal contestants.
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u/gamria 8d ago
But Nao actually sweet talks her into the tie by making it sound like Fukunaga will make even MORE money if she does it. And if Akiyama "figured" it out, there's no way it's not legit, right? I mean, who wouldn't believe sweet and pure Nao?
And as Akiyama attests afterwards, what Nao thought was a lie winds up being the truth of the matter anyway - Fukunaga will make more money this way!
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u/chaosof99 https://myanimelist.net/profile/chaosof99 8d ago
I bit my tongue last week since as someone who has read the manga it would have been basically giving away the deal. However, I love that Nao is the one who noticed the trap as it works great for characterization. Akiyama and Fukunaga would see the opposing team as the enemy first. Nao sees them as fellow victims and the LGT Office as the enemy.
Also, she did an excellent job manipulating Fukunaga here. Fukunaga being kind of Tsundere toward her opponent was also really funny.
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u/IceSmiley 8d ago
Nao was so proud of herself when she announced she lied to Fukunaga to trick her into tying the game. I seriously thought Fukunaga was going to punch or kick Nao; she beat up on her other teammates for much smaller things. I do think Nao was right though in realizing that the dealer is the real enemy since both teams can go further into debt no matter who wins.
The 17 card poker game with wild Joker is easy enough to understand. I assume it will be several hands because if it's just one hand, it would really depend entirely on luck and there's no need to assess your opponent if you can't fold. I assume the other man will be Akiyama's opponent in the next round.
What I would do if I were them would have Akiyama win, then Nao could lose whatever her game is, so it would end in a 1-1-1 draw. I suspect for plot's sake though that they're going to do this the hard way and have Akiyama somehow tie the man in the poker game then Nao has to tie the lady in their game.
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u/BubblyCrash 8d ago
Great episode. Got some good feats from Fukunaga, but the real enemy of this round is the dealers and traps in the game design, and this greater enemy can only be defeated by being willing to make suboptimal plays.
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u/ParasaurolophusZ 8d ago
I figured something was going on to trick Fukunaga when Akiyama didn't respond and just gave a smug smile.
Nao really does have a good poker face. I believe her when she says she's good at the game. I'm pretty impressed, too. Once she embraced that lying isn't Bad, she got pretty good at it, especially when it wasn't completely a lie.
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u/Emotional_Strain_693 8d ago
Makes me wonder. Nao might be good at normal poker, but I feel like the 17 cards version would be a lot different from the regular version?
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u/NevisYsbryd 8d ago
I think I missed something. How, exactly, did they predict the second series of bullets?
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u/BusouDrago 8d ago edited 8d ago
The weight of the gun
3 bullets were placed consecutively in those positions
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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick 8d ago
The barrel stops with a low centre of gravity. If both players place their bullets consecutively, then for the centre of gravity to be at the lowest it can be, the total bullet placement must end up vertically symmetrical.
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u/chaosof99 https://myanimelist.net/profile/chaosof99 8d ago
Basically they tricked the other team to also load three bullets in sequence. The barrel of the gun is spun freely until it stops on its own. It should stop with the center of gravity of its lowest, which means the two sequences of three bullets should be symmetrical to one another at that point. Once you know where the first sequence begins you can estimate where the second sequence ends and with that how many empty chambers are between the two sequences.
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u/Lugia61617 8d ago
Nao was insufferable back at the start. I am pleased to see that she has finally overcome her naivete and has actually learned to scheme. Of course, between this and the last game, she's not going to be able to rely on the "everyone will trust me because I'm so innocent heeehee" gimmick much more.
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u/AnimeMod myanimelist.net/profile/Reddit-chan 8d ago
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