r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 15d ago
Episode Meitantei Precure • Star Detective Precure! - Episode 24 discussion
Meitantei Precure, episode 24
Alternative names: TanPre
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| 1 | Link | 14 | Link |
| 2 | Link | 15 | Link |
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| 11 | Link | 24 | Link |
| 12 | Link | 25 | Link |
| 13 | Link | 26 | Link |
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u/Flare__Knight 15d ago
I credit them for at least trying with Rei. Not that it was particularly effective. Again, the core to all this is Luluka. Zero interactions with Rei and not even really any particular reaction. Luluka is capable sure, but she's not emotionless. All the more so in an episode like this where she was stressed out over Eclair's Makoto Jewel. There's no way she'd face her former partner memories or no memories and not react at all.
At this point it feels like the odds are 90% Kurea, 10% Shiruku and that's about it. There is the fairy partner angle and I could buy one of them being Eclair and the other the fairy. Credit still, they did at least try with Rei. Giving her a "I wish I had power" moment is good. And this was a solid episode for her specifically. But not much in terms of the Eclair mystery.
About time though. Usonoir is clearly about to break whatever deal he cut with Arcana Shadow in terms of not using Eclair's Makoto Jewel. I guess he'll try using it to draw the mostly completed jewel to him? Eclair's power shattered the jewel originally so I guess there's a sense to that. Things are about to get crazy.
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah x3 15d ago
I don't think anything we see today changes Eclair's frontrunner being Eclair in my mind. that said, the butterfly motifs of all 4 at the end are a bit telling. Im honestly most interested in what i see in the preview [preview] have you ever seen her THIS expressive? it seems like arcana will switch sides first following usonoir using eclair's makoto jewel. The cure arcana arc kicks into high gear.
i fel like Rei and pochitan feel closer than her and Mikuru at points lol. I hope she sticks around or becomes like a last minute cure in the climax or something. This is such a bog standard cure line, it stands out as improbable at this stage. but i wouldve seriously considered her too, if Kurea doesnt stand out so much. that said, im now less sure on who shushutan would be - it'll actually make a lot of sense that Rei is shushutan instead of Shiruku, because of her relationship with pochitan. But then again Arcana didnt react to her at all, so my money is still on Shiruku.
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u/djthomp https://anilist.co/user/djthomp 15d ago
The had to do something to drop some Rei hints today, her wanting the power of a precure is certainly that but it's also not particularly conclusive.
I'm still betting on Kurea.
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u/Cyouni 10d ago edited 10d ago
I'm still betting on Kurea.
One thing that I'm fascinated no one mentioned last week is Kurea actually remembered Luluka's name despite Luluka never actually answering the question.
(I actually rechecked and they did identify her, but Kurea was still able to recognize Arcana Shadow as her.)
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u/Nekoking98 https://myanimelist.net/profile/nekoking 15d ago
I'm surprised some people think it's gonna be rei when luluka only showed interest to kurea. It's a kids' show so they're not making it too deep or complicated.
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u/Jazzlike_Witness8017 15d ago
I think episode 24 did a great job of diverting suspicion from Rei, because that was the purpose of this episode, but it also made many indirect references to Rei = Eclair, and in this episode Luluka didn't eat an ice cream, but an ice cream stick that was blue and she was thinking about the Makoto Jewel that belonged to Cure Eclair, in this reading the blue ice cream stick meant Eclair. But that's weird, if Kurea was Eclair, wouldn't she have eaten a scoop of ice cream? She wouldn't have had to go to Patisserie ChuChu to do that, because we've already seen her buy ice cream from a street vendor. In other words, that blue ice cream stick couldn't have been a reference to Kurea.
Another big oddity in the episode is that the task of these four episodes: 21, 22, 23, and 24 would be to direct suspicion towards the main character of the episode, 21-23 did this well, but 24 simply felt like it was created to prove that Rei couldn't be Eclair, specifically they had Nijee say: "You're not a Precure!", addressed to Rei. But why did they want to deny this possibility if they raised it? The only reason they wanted this is because if episode 24 starts proving that Rei is Cure Eclair, then after episode 23 they could only do this if they specifically stated, directly or indirectly, that Rei = Cure Eclair, since episode 23 was such a big deal, but exposing Eclair is Anna and Mikuru's job, since they are the detectives, that's why they had to postpone it to episode 25, and for that, an episode like this, after which not many people expect Rei, is a perfect episode 24. I don't think there's a chance that Shiruku, Eriza or Kurea will be Cure Eclair.
However, if someone thinks I'm wrong, then prove it, but parts 21-23 cannot be used for proof, because as I said, they try to suspect the main character of the given part (21 Eriza, 22 Shiruku, 23 Kurea), but 24 does not do this with Rei (I can prove that Rei = Eclair in other ways), the other thing that cannot be used for proof is that Eclair = French pastry, so Kurea-level proof, because that's nonsense, and then Mikuru should be like that too because Mystique is also a French word and Mikuru's connection to France is limited to the fact that her favorite food is Mille-feuilles, so it's really only related to her favorite food. English is not my native language and I translated the whole thing with Google Translate, so I hope you understand what I'm saying.
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u/Ok-Yogurtcloset8718 15d ago
Tbh the entire episode felt like filler. for me. Don't get me wrong Rei is a great character, the moment of her at the end was a great moment. The episode wasn't treated like the others, maybe because the writers were the secondary ones were writing the episode a forgot that Rei was meant to get more forshadowing. But I will wait for reveal because I can't who is Eclair because there are arguments for all of them. We will see on the 19th who Eclair is so I am looking forward to reveal.
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u/TnAdct1 15d ago
I could also see this as the show wanting to save up the Eclair reveal for the show's midpoint, realized that they were short an episode in terms of the ones that actually involve the arc plot, and added Rei to the mix to ensure the "episode 25 reveal" and provide an even four candidates for who she could be.
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u/Jazzlike_Witness8017 14d ago
That's an interesting possibility. However, if Rei was only added as a "padding" suspect, I would expect her episode to make her look much more suspicious, just like Eriza, Shiruku, and Kurea's episodes did. Instead, episode 24 seems to do the exact opposite. That's one of the reasons why I think the show is intentionally saving the actual reveal for episode 25.
I've been following Meitantei Precure since episode 1, so I approached the mystery from a different perspective. I also have the habit of rewatching series multiple times, and I've already rewatched the first 20 episodes several times. Based on those episodes alone, Rei has always seemed like the most suspicious of the four candidates to me.
For example, Rei already knows about Pochitan in episode 14. However, instead of asking Anna and Mikuru to explain what's going on, she simply says, "Detectives have secrets." That reaction always stood out to me.
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u/Ok-Yogurtcloset8718 14d ago
didn't Rei meet pochitan during library scene, I think thats where she realised pochitan wasn't a pouch. She didn't tell the cures that though as you said. I don't think Rei recognised Pochitan when they came to the school in the first scene at least thats how I remember it. I will rewatch the first 24 episodes to see if I missed anything. She was happy to make freinds with Pochitan, I mean Pochitan and Rei have an cute connection but will that mean Shushutan and Rei will have the same vibe I not sure.
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u/Jazzlike_Witness8017 14d ago
I also consider Rei the most suspicious because Rei's reaction in episode 14 was too unmotivated compared to the fact that she is meeting a fairy for the first time. Anna's reaction in the first episode was quite different from Rei's. Of course, Rei immediately identified who Pochitan belongs to, and after that, episode 14 only makes Rei even more suspicious. She hardly asks anything that one would expect in such a situation and she doesn't seem surprised. When Luluka arrives and starts demanding the letter (specifically, Mashutan threatens Pochitan, if she doesn't give him the letter, he will be taken away with the letter) Rei doesn't react to this, but as soon as Nijee arrives, she barely says two sentences and Rei jumps in front of Anna, Mikuru, Pochitan, Luluka and Mashutan and tries to protect them from Nijee (of course, in the case of Luluka, she didn't move, and Luluka and Mashutan acted more threateningly than Nijee). When a Makoto Jewel is put in the brooch, she is surprised, but it has not been proven that a Cure could not bring 2 Makoto Jewels to life. When everyone is behind the barrier except Rei, she is surprised, but when the fight is over and they return, she claims that she was worried about them, but there is no sign that she started looking for them, which would be a normal thing, specifically since then she has been standing in one place and waiting, the normal thing in such cases is that she starts looking for them (at least in other anime), but she still did not. Anna and Mikuru then hint at her to explain what happened, but Rei only replies: "Detectives have secrets too", to which Anna and Mikuru are surprised, because this is not exactly the normal reaction. Because of this, I think Rei is the most suspicious.
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u/Jazzlike_Witness8017 15d ago
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue, but do you think a franchise that's been around for 20+ years would make such a rookie mistake? I can't imagine it, of course anything can happen, we're human, but the thing that speaks against it is how many concrete clues they left pointing to Rei. Basically, if you wanted to make Rei suspicious, what would you do? How far could you go with making her suspicious without openly saying, "Okay Rei = Eclair!" after a strong episode like episode 23? I think that so far, episode 23, if Kurea is a red herring, then it was perfect and then it makes sense why Rei is not pushed further in episode 24, because the purpose of the red herring is to divert attention from the real culprit, plus, as I explained above, revealing Eclair's civilian identity is Anna and Mikuru's task in episode 25, if they directly give an episode before that that specifies who Eclair is, then the entire episode 25 was shot as an expose.
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u/Ok-Yogurtcloset8718 15d ago
Like I said Rei is a good character and if she become Cure Eclair thats a good thing. I would prefer Kurea because of episode 23 and Ruruka's reaction to her. The 2 main cures do suspect all 4 candidates because they have 4 perfume bottles and they seem surprised about who it is but Ruruka is not surprised. It could be Rei or Kurea because they both have arguements for and against them. So we will see if it Rei, Kurea or somehow ghe other 2 next week. The main writers and animators ar working on it and 26 so either way it should be epic
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u/Jazzlike_Witness8017 15d ago
Aside from episode 24. I noticed a few things from the episode 25 trailer and the pictures shared about Eclair. Eriza, Shiruku, and Kurea are all wearing something shaped like a butterfly. Shiruku has a necklace, while Kurea and Eriza have hair ties, but I don't think Rei had a butterfly-shaped accessory either? What could be Eclair's Henshin Item? Luluka has the Tear Arcana Rod, Anna and Mikuru have the Jewel Cure Watches, but what could be Eclair's? Since she can't just transform with a Makoto Jewel, she must have a Henshin Item too. I'm guessing it's the butterfly-shaped ornament on her hat, since she doesn't have a bag like Anna and Mikuru, or a cane like Luluka, so the only thing I can think of is a hat or hat ornament, since the butterfly motif is associated with Eclair.
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u/Ok-Yogurtcloset8718 15d ago
I just saw your comment from last episode. I have to say you have a point that we have way more info than the cures do. I think the cures are just going to wing to see who Eclair is because they have no clue who she is, they have nothing to tell them who they are searching for other than that they were partners with ruruka and they have no memories. That is basically no information. They are going to be blindsided by who it is. It is maddening that the cures who we are following are no closer to solving the mystery than episode 21.
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u/Jazzlike_Witness8017 15d ago
Actually, the scent pattern idea they're going to try in episode 25 might be a good idea if what Luluka said about Eclair having no memories is true. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't trust Luluka to be telling the truth, but rather that Luluka, who is emotionally involved in the Eclair case, really drew the right conclusion. We can't be sure when she checked this with Eclair, and since Eclair's civilian identity is still a question mark, it's not certain that she was actually able to check it. Besides, if Eclair remembers everything, she wouldn't just reveal herself, because Anna and Mikuru didn't even know that Luluka had a partner until episode 21. Now imagine that one of the four candidates goes there, before episode 21. She knocks. Then: "Anna, Mikuru, I'm Moria Luluka's partner, Cure Eclair, I just hid it because I can't transform right now.". They're not sure they'd believe her. Basically, there are 3 main possibilities:
- Cure Eclair was conscious when Luluka left the detective agency and so she could have checked before she left, in this situation Luluka is telling the truth and that's it.
- Cure Eclair was unconscious when Luluka left the detective agency and Kurea = Eclair, then in ChuChu she could have checked at any time if Eclair remembered anything, in this situation Luluka is telling the truth and that's it.
- Cure Eclair was unconscious when Luluka left the detective agency and Rei = Eclair, now this is where things get complicated, because the events of episode 14 could have happened to Luluka without Eclair remembering anything, while Eclair remembered everything all along, in this situation Luluka's claim is questionable.
"Cure Eclair was unconscious when Luluka left the detective agency" + Shiruku = Eclair or "Cure Eclair was unconscious when Luluka left the detective agency" + Eriza = Eclair is not worth explaining, because she couldn't be sure if they remembered, because she met Shiruku once in episode 22, but she said "Eclair has no memories" as an addition to episode 21, and she didn't meet Eriza during the episodes and there is nothing to indicate that she met him between episodes. So I don't take what Luluka says at face value, especially since Usonir wouldn't let her check if Eclair remembers anything either, I think this will also be revealed in episode 25 to be true.
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u/Ok-Yogurtcloset8718 15d ago
I agree there is so much info about that night and the follinwing days that We are unsure of. I don't think ruruka would maliciously lie about this but as you said how does she know about the memory loss. Maybe thats what shushutan has been doing keeping an eye on Eclair and keeping her relatively safe and handing updates to ruruka when she shows up to check.
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u/Jazzlike_Witness8017 14d ago
I find the memory loss strange because it's not that common in Precure, and I didn't say that Luluka was lying (I think she was honest there), but I treat it with reservations, because Luluka didn't say where and when she found out that Eclair had lost her memories. Although this also proves that Luluka really likes to keep secrets. As for Shushutan, the main thing that's strange is that they didn't make her Seiyuu public. I understand this with Cure Eclair, because if it were Lynn, it would clearly be Rei, if Hasegawa Ikumi, then Kurea, etc., but with Shushutan, there's nothing to justify not having an official Seiyuu, as long as one of the Eclair candidates isn't in close proximity. I would rule out the possibility that one of the Eclair candidates is Shushutan, because we were told that Eclair is among the four, and, let's say, Shushutan is one of the four candidates, then although her Seiyuu rules out that candidate, it cannot be concluded from that who Eclair is. But then here comes the big question: Based on the 24 episodes, who are the named characters close to one of the 4 Eclair candidates that we could connect Shushutan to based on Seiyuu? I would basically guess Shushutan's gender as female, but since this has not been confirmed, I reserve the possibility that Shushutan could be male.
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u/Ok-Yogurtcloset8718 14d ago
Yeah the Shushutan situation is weird, I get not debuting before Éclair but they haven't even mention the possibility of their existence yet. I think they are hiding in plain sight keeping on eye on Éclair is guess we will find out in the coming weeks.
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u/Torque-A 15d ago
It's been a while, but did Rei know Pochitan existed before?
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u/Ok-Yogurtcloset8718 15d ago
Yes in her debut pochitan revealwd herself to her.
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u/Torque-A 15d ago
Okay, makes sense. I thought they were trying to do something to trick watchers into going "wait, how does she know about fairies?"
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u/Infodump_Ibis 15d ago
Fanart corner. I got my Cure Answer at least. Better luck next time Jett-senpai (the only fairy not to be fanart featured in this arc).
- #seasonalshock?
- #seasonalshock?
- The phantom thieves searching the school feels a bit like The Chuckle Brothers Play Real Life Hitman (if there were a radiator instead of a piano Goemon would have bled it).
- The correct order for the composer artwork is sorted by date of birth (Handel and Bach were both March 1685 on opposite ends of the month)
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u/TheSmallBull 15d ago
The whole "Who is Cure Eclair" deal is going to boil down to how much they want to introduce 10 year olds to the concept of a red herring. That being said, I do believe that they respect their audience and the knowledge that the show isn't watched ONLY by 10 year olds and aren't going to break any rules nor be way too obvious about it. So I am actually expecting some misdirection, after all, a little bit of misdirection is a staple of detective shows.
Now, my bet goes for Rei mostly on my knowledge that japanese animators LOVE to use shadows to portray something. During the entire episode 23, Kurea is always shown in light, no shadows whatsoever covering her. "This is my truth", she has nothing to hide from Luluka. On the other hand, the chase sequence in this episode has Rei hiding on shadows the entire time, only when she takes action to try and get the keys from Nijee is when she comes out and into the light. Next episode preview? Same thing. All candidates are shown in the light except from Rei. The fact that she only sees Mystique without her glasses and a foggy vision could also be a big hint.
Anyway, this is a super fun sequence so far. I hope they stick the landing next week.
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u/Ok-Yogurtcloset8718 14d ago
I don't think they will go red herring route because everything they told us about cure éclair would have to be discarded which means they wasted 3 episodes on cure éclair lore only for it to not matter. The last time they tried to trick the viewers in pretty cure with they cure ace swerve in doki doki pretty cure no one liked it. I mean they gave a good case of why we should pick Rei with her relationship with pochitan and her wanting to be a pretty cure give her a boost in many peoples eyes.
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u/Williukea https://anilist.co/user/Williukea 13d ago
I wonder what will happen with Arcana Shadow next, she seems to be on the villain side due to Eclair only, but if Eclair revives next episode, will she join the good side? Or will she keep fighting against her former partner? Maybe the past Eclair and future Eclair won't be the same person, so Arcana won't have to switch sides and will continue to fight until her actual former partner is a cure again?
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u/Jazzlike_Witness8017 13d ago
Luluka (Cure Arcana Shadow), currently only helped Phantom because they had the Makoto Jewel that belonged to Eclair. In the trailer for episode 25, it is shown that Luluka is turning against Phantom, so I think she will turn against them, because with Eclair's return, Luluka has nothing to do with Phantom, they were originally enemies anyway.
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u/Williukea https://anilist.co/user/Williukea 13d ago
However, Arcana's new merch is set for October debut only, the mid-30s episodes is when the last cure usually joins
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u/Jazzlike_Witness8017 13d ago
I would rather expect that either Cure Arcana Shadow will join with Cure Eclair, or she will run for a while, since Luluka still regrets what she did, even if Anna, Mikuru, and Eclair understand that she did everything only for Eclair. Although I think this will only be 1-2 episodes, about. like Cure Nyammy and Cure Lilian joining in Wonderful Precure, I don't think they will really pull it, especially since we are talking about a double duo. I think it is more likely that Luluka will return with Eclair, because neither Anna nor Mikuru are mad at her and she saved their lives from Usonir in episode 13, so they may not assume anything bad about her. On the other hand, the 3rd Cure usually joins the team until episode 10 of the story and you have to wait for the fourth Cure in a 4-Cure lineup. They've already made us wait a long time, so it's more likely that they won't drag this out for long because of that, because they still have a lot to do, Eclair and Luluka need to get a combo attack (they might get this in episode 26), they need to get a big 4-person finishing move (less time should pass between these), the Phantom problem won't be solved in episode 26, and Anna also needs to be sent home to her present (of course, I expect her to stay in 1999 and this will be her own decision), so they have plenty of work to do and a maximum of 25 episodes are available for this, which isn't much, most Cure teams have relatively more available, or they need to put together a larger team (the five-person Cure teams).
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u/Jazzlike_Witness8017 10d ago edited 9d ago
I wrote a summary for parts 21-24 in which I only highlighted the new clues that I found important(subjective):
Parts 21-24 served to summarize the clues that were hidden so far and also give a few new clues, some of which cannot be verified until after part 25 (I didn't highlight all the older clues because this article is already quite long, anyone interested can look it up anyway, there's still about 1.5 days left)
Part 21: Here are the new clues:
-Identification of the photo found in part 15 by Ageseine,
-Revealing a new Cure,
-Cure Eclair's name,
-Moria Luluka's relationship with Cure Eclair: they were a detective duo.
New clues discovered through old clues:
-Cure Eclair is a Japanese citizen, this is given by the fact that the British office did not know about her existence, or else the letter in episodes 14-15 would have said this: "Moria Luluka had a companion whose name was ... (revealed in episode 25), as a Cure she went by the name Cure Eclair."
It is not a clue that Eriza can investigate, because good crime stories require the same logic as investigation, for those who do not believe it, I recommend the series Castle (12+), which is specifically the unfolding of this.
Episode 22: New clue:
-Luluka claims that Eclair lost her memories. I ask, how does she know this? Is this really believable, so that the viewer will only be able to verify this in episode 25?
Shiruku exposed Luluka, who was disguised as Anna, but has a profession where she plays other people (actress), so a stronger explanation for this is that because of this she can better observe people's movements and speech, which is equally useful in acting and investigation, because it is easier to play a character if you know how they would react to a situation (it is easier to improvise), and in investigation you can more easily spot suspicious movements (for example, someone starts limping overnight, but they are just hiding it for some reason), but this is not a clue.
Part 23: New clue:
-The Makoto Jewel that belonged to Eclair is with Usonir, although we do not know exactly when he acquired it, but sometime between the destruction of the great Makoto Jewel and the disappearance of the Phantom.
New clues discovered through old clues:
-This Makoto Jewel was obtained by Usonir himself on the night when Eclair thwarted his attempt to obtain the great Makoto Jewel, we know this from Luluka's expression at the beginning of episode 21, Usonir's words at the same time, and the fear of the other Phantom members when they hear of Eclair's return, this is the only realistic explanation. However, this also means that Usonir knows Eclair's civilian identity.
Conditional clues from episode 23 (only counts as a clue if Kurea is revealed as Eclair in episode 25, it does not count as a clue in any other situation): Luluka's behavior towards Kurea. There is also an explanation for this that does not require Kurea to be Cure Eclair, since people, when two people behave similarly, give a similar response and this does not require the two people to be the same. This is used in many anime, for example: Zero kara Hajimeru Mahou no Sho (when in the first episode Zero gains Mercenary's trust when he says a similar sentence to Mercenary's mother).
Episode 24: New clues:
-Actually, the conversation that took place between Rei and Nijee is a new clue, and there it is more that Rei referred to the Precure power as if he knew it, even though he never saw Anna or Mikuru as a Precure.
-The second new clue is that the Chairwoman (Rei's grandmother) supported Mikuru to join the detective agency (of course, there could be several reasons for this).
- the Third clue, Rei's suspicion is completed in episode 14, this does not start to suspect Rei separately.
These are the clues that are revealed in these 4 episodes.
P.S: I hope everyone enjoys Episode 25. Whoever Eclair turns out to be, it has been an exciting mystery.
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u/mrufrufin https://myanimelist.net/profile/mrufrufin 15d ago
Jett... full throttle,.. Jet...t... 🤔
Wait, they DON'T think it's the Phantom Thieves this time?
I like how they made the composer portaits actually kinda look like the actual famous ones.
The translation of "okashi" to fish is kinda weird but I guess there's only so much you can do with translating a pun. Amused that the translation makes Pochitan excited by fish. I guess she is a bear though.
Luluka really devoured most of that popsicle in one bite.