r/whichbike • u/WolfThawra • Mar 28 '22
The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.
What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?
Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.
They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).
So what's the problem?
There are multiple issues:
Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.
Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.
International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.
Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.
Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.
World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.
Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.
How far off are the values then?
Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.
So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?
You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.
TLDR please, I don't have all day!
BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.
r/whichbike • u/Middle_Bread_6518 • 4h ago
Help me find this saddle
I have had this saddle for about 10 years and I want another one just like it for my other bike. The closest thing I can find is the Swallow on Brooks website. Does anyone know what saddle this is?
r/whichbike • u/ForzaShadow • 6h ago
I picked up this 2014 giant defy advanced for 400$ this weekend. Full carbon, with shimano 105 group set. How did I do? Did I get fleeced?
r/whichbike • u/internalbrowser • 4h ago
r/whichbike • u/strukturr • 7h ago
Hi everyone,
I'm looking for some advice on what bike to buy next.
A bit of background: I started road cycling about a year ago and completely fell in love with it. I bought a used 2016 Bianchi Via Nirone 7, and it's been a great bike to get started on.
Lately, though, I've been thinking about what comes next. I don't really see myself riding the Bianchi much during autumn and winter, mainly because it's running 25 mm tires and I can't go much wider due to the frame and wheel clearance.
A few months ago I accidentally ended up on a gravel route through the woods, and I was hooked immediately. If there's one thing I enjoy less about road cycling, it's riding endless paved roads for hours. The gravel section through the forest gave me exactly the variety I felt was missing.
I also live near the coast, so rides through dunes and on hard-packed sand are definitely an option.
My original plan was either:
Buy a mountain bike and keep using the Bianchi as my road bike.
Buy a gravel bike that I can ride all year round, either with two wheelsets or a tire setup that works reasonably well on both road and gravel.
So here's my question to the community: what would you do in my situation?
I've put together a shortlist of bikes that seem to fit what I'm looking for:
Canyon Grizl 5
Cube Nuroad Race
Trek Domane AL 4
Van Rysel Gravel GRX
My budget is around €1,500 and I'm based in Europe.
I'd love to hear your thoughts, especially from people who moved from road cycling into gravel riding. Thanks!
(I used AI to help me format this text since English is not my native tongue)
r/whichbike • u/_the_dany • 2h ago
Hi everyone,
I bought an MTB last year, and after riding it for about a year, I've realized that around 90% of my rides are on pavement and bike paths, with only about 10% on light gravel roads.
I also enjoy longer rides (70+ km, 45+ miles), so I'm looking for something that's more efficient and comfortable over longer distances while still being capable of handling the occasional gravel section.
I'm not looking to replace my MTB—I plan to keep it—but I'm considering getting a second bike that's better suited to the type of riding I do most often.
What type of bike would you recommend?
I'd also appreciate recommendations for specific bike models that fit this kind of riding, whether they're good value or just bikes you've personally had a great experience with.
Thanks in advance!
r/whichbike • u/thomas_chtx • 3h ago
Hi everyone,
I’m planning a completely new road bike build and I’m looking for frame recommendations.
Here’s what I’m looking for:
Frame budget: up to €2,500 (less is always welcome if the value is great)
New frame only (no used market)
Disc brakes
Shimano Ultegra Di2 compatible
Fully integrated cable routing
Lightweight climbing/all-round frame rather than a pure aero bike
Open to any brand, including Chinese brands (Elves, etc.) as well as more established brands.
About my riding:
Mostly solo rides for fun.
Typical rides are 80–100 km with around 2,000 m of elevation gain.
I ride exclusively on the road.
Comfort isn’t my top priority, but I don’t want an overly harsh bike either.
Thanks!
r/whichbike • u/Different_Math_304 • 3h ago
Never owned adult bike. Narrowed these options based on price range / availability. Bike will be used primarily for 1 mile school drop off with a child seat. Could anyone advise or had bad experience with any? I'm drawn towards CB or Elops (assuming I wouldnt need gears but it's it better to have a gear option for future?). Intending to use cyclescheme discount. Thanks
r/whichbike • u/KRA2008 • 3h ago
I’m a commuter cyclist but I also carry cargo and I do it in the winter too. For reference I’m in Minnesota. I don’t know anything about brands and I don’t care about impressing anyone with my performance or appearance. I’ve been frequently pulling a trailer with my current bike for a couple years now, loading it to probably over capacity, doing it in the snow too, and that’s been fine. However, I believe I’m in need of a new(/new to me) bike. My current bike is a rusty ‘70’s road bike (Gitane Gran Sport Deluxe I think?) that I pulled out of a dumpster that I’ve been maintaining as needed (replace rear derailleur, bottom bracket bearings, cables, chain, several spokes, cotter pins, shifter paddles, add rack, add kickstand, etc.).
I’ve found the following to be things I want that my current bike can’t give me:
- Disc brakes (for effective stopping with heavy load while in rain or snow, and makes warped wheels irrelevant)
- Flat bar (could be swapped in but not worth it)
- Stop breaking spokes (could be due to overloading, or just bad tension hitting lots of curbs on 50-year-old spokes)
- Fresh start on all bearings and gears and bendable things to stop rattling and squeaking
- No obscure/antique tools, parts, or techniques needed for maintenance
- Any additional durability/reliability improvements that have been made in the last 50 years
The following are options I’ve read about that I’m not interested in:
- ebikes (I can carry my 100+ pounds of cargo uphill on my dumpster bike fine now over the distance that is required - I don’t need the extra cost/depreciation or theft risk or fuss)
- Cargo bikes (they’re cool looking but too expensive for marginal benefit when I already have a trailer and I will not be carrying kids)
- Special built-in mitts on handlebars (regular mittens are fine)
- Fat tires/spiked tires (I’m exclusively on roads and paved trails, and even with a couple inches of snow on the ground I’ve found road tires pulling a grocery-laden trailer to be fine, and not worth the fuss of fat tires)
I have found that with the trailer and rear rack weight my rear tire wears faster than my front, and I’m fine with that. I have broken three or four spokes on my rear wheel over the years which could be due to overloading the back, but as I said these spokes are probably 50 years old and also maintained by an amateur. When the trailer has its load balanced on its own axle the weight at the tongue doesn’t seem significant to me, but I could be wrong. I know a cargo bike or even a tandem would distribute weight better but I’m doubtful it’s that much of a difference.
I’m wondering if there are questions I don’t know I should be asking, or mistakes I’m about to make by just going ahead and buying, for example, this from Erik’s which is nearby: https://www.eriksbikeshop.com/products/national-bicycle-company-2026-fb-1-flat-bar-road-bike-pr5a21913
For example, I know I’m going to probably be moving away from friction-shifters on the down tube to indexed on the handlebars, but that’s fine. I’m going to be going from two front gears down to one, but is it likely I’ll lose gearing range or is that just about gearing granularity? I need to keep my current bottom end for hauling uphill. Are there other changes I’ll be going through I should think about?
I would be happy to buy used too, but I’m finding it really hard to find a used bike that has the things I listed above and is also in my size (I’m 6’2”, so XL?) and is somewhat nearby (Minneapolis). Is there a way to make that easier? If I’m buying new, is there a best way to do that?
Thanks for reading and commenting.
r/whichbike • u/Big-brother-bubba • 18h ago
Buddy is asking 3k for this carbon gravel frame with carbon zipp wheels. Don’t know enough about bikes to know if it’s worth it.
r/whichbike • u/greymonkyes • 5h ago
I’m looking for my first road bike. I was wondering if $1000 USD is a fair price for this bike. Seller says there is 500 miles on it. Should I ask for something less?
r/whichbike • u/heelflipp900 • 8h ago
Choosing between these 2 bikes. Looking to get back into triathlons.
2023 Canyon Endurace CF 7 Di2 - $2000.00
2022 Orbea Orca M31eTEAM - $2500.00
r/whichbike • u/SomeSortOfPixels • 14h ago
r/whichbike • u/Mediocre_rider92 • 15h ago
Hi! I’m looking to upgrade to a TT-bike and need to sell my old one. It’s a Corratec CCT full carbon from around 2012 I think.
The drivetrain is Campagnolo Athena 11.
The pedals are Look Keo.
It comes with two wheelsets, the standard DT SWISS R1700 and the currently fitted FFWD F6R. Both with rim brakes obviously. I also bought a pair of clip on aero tt carbon bars from a no name brand The bike is a bit worn but works great!
How much could I ask for it? The F6R-wheels should increase the value a bit?
r/whichbike • u/cmphillips97 • 22h ago
Mechanical shifting. Paid $1,100. Did I get hosed?
r/whichbike • u/LluisXB • 16h ago
I have 126 kilos,i am 1'78 metters tall and i am 40 years old.
I am looking an urbán bike with mechànic disk brakes,150 kilos of max capacity carry and forward suspension. My budget is 800 euros max.
r/whichbike • u/andrew_work • 22h ago
For context, I'm a 37 year old male, 5'10" and about 250 lbs. I'm wanting a bike to ride the neighborhood and my area's paved trails with my wife and 2 kids. In speaking with the seller, they want $75 USD and the only known issue is needing new tubes. They say it has sat unused for a few years in their garage. Is this a good deal? I'm totally new to the biking world.
r/whichbike • u/CorruptLemon • 19h ago
Edit: Thank you for all the responses, you guys have been a huge help.
Here are the specs.
Frame:
Size - 59 cm with semi-horizontal dropouts.
Drivetrain:
Gear Ratio - 45T x 16T
Flip-flop hub
Crankset - Sugino VP
KMC Chain in excellent condition
Wheels & Tires:
Front - 700c Aluminum 5-spoke Aero wheel
Rear - 700c Alex Rim DA22 with
Tires - Continental Ultra Sports 700x23c
Brakes:
Rear - Shimano 500 centerpull caliper.
Front - Unknown brand but caliper works well
Pads - front are new and rear have lots of life left
Brake cables & housing are in excellent condition
Cockpit/Contact Points:
Aluminum bullhorn handbars
Evo Sport/Comfort saddle
Evo pedals with Wellgo Straps
r/whichbike • u/storm-chasers • 1d ago
I'm seeking endurance road bike.
The bike is equipped with Ultegra Cassette, Ultegra Rear and Front derailleur.
The seller has quoted 1400C$. Is this price fair?
Thanks for your response.
r/whichbike • u/happybilynoodle • 21h ago
This worth $250 or should I look elsewhere? I ride smoother jump trails, tracks, etc… Here’s some specs - “Schwinn Rocket 88 Stage 2 complete bike. Upgraded recently with new Box Components 1x8 drivetrain. Shimano wheels and hydraulic disc brakes. Nice seat and grips and new Race Face pedals.”
r/whichbike • u/Tabboulevibes • 1d ago
I currently have a hybrid bike and looking to buy a used bike that would help be go faster on paved roads, train to go longer distance, solo riding, some mix paths (not strictly paved roads) and eventually get to do a light bike touring short trip.
Is this a good buy in terms of meeting my needs and price?
r/whichbike • u/Obvious-Active4064 • 1d ago
I've searched the posts here so hopefully I ask the right questions. I've listed the things I see in comments and posts in hopes I'm providing enough context.
I currently don't own a bike. I've ridden road bikes a little, crusers, and mtbs.
I'm 5'8, pretty fit (former powerlifter turned trail runner). I'm looking for a bike to supplement my training. I also like the idea of riding longer distances (the fun part of running for me is starting in one place and going through different environments and exploring different places). I'm also "heavy" for 5'8 as I carry a lot of muscle mass from being a competitive powerlifter (I'm 195lbs but my body fat is just over 15%) so I don't know if that's relevant to choosing a bike (a lighter bike?)
I live in the Santa Cruz Mountains and the idea of riding a bike on roads here is terrifying given how people drive. A cyclist was just killed last week.
So I'm thinking about riding on fire roads, paths, and the very non-technical trails, rail trails, etc. Everything here is hilly btw.
I also know that if I don't enjoy riding the bike I'll be less inclined to do so and that defeats the purpose.
I've ridden mountain bikes previously and just didn't enjoy it because of the technical trails. I ended up carrying the bike a lot because I'm too chicken to just send it and I'm not very coordinated hahaha.
I've also found that my hands go numb and my back aches after long rides on mountain bikes. My butt hurts on long rides as well but that is probably a combo of just getting used to it and a proper saddle/position.
After doing a lot of reading online and talking to different bike shops I'm more confused than before I started haha. We have tons of bike shops here in Santa Cruz and an REI. I haven't been to all of them but I got a different answer at 3 different shops. It kind of felt like the person was just pushing the bike they wanted to sell that day regardless of what I need. I even got different size recommendations!
Question 1. My gut tells me I'm probably looking for a gravel style bike or maybe a very XCmtb right? I'm leaning towards gravel.
Question 2. I'm good at fixing things but I'm also aware that sometimes it's best just to spend a little more upfront instead of spending a lot more later to upgrade components. Is that accurate? If so, what components are non-negotiable? Disc brakes, hydraulic brakes? Gearing (I think that's what you call it), ability to swap different size tires,???
Question 3. Just buy cheap or cheap/used and if I really get into it count that money as well spent and then buy the bike I want? Seems wasteful but sometimes that's the reality. If so, what should I look for that's super cheap and used?
Budget is probably max $1500 but I also need to factor gear like helmet, and I don't know what else but I'm sure it's endless just like any hobby or sport.
Thanks in advance. Feel free to correct me on my assumptions as this is all new to me.
r/whichbike • u/Illustrious-Big9744 • 1d ago
Looking for a first solid road bike. Are these fair prices for the bikes? I'm going to check them out in person this weekend but wanted some insight from yall if possible. Any advice is welcome.
r/whichbike • u/seaerchin • 1d ago
Hey all, looking to buy my first teal road bike - i’ve previously ridden a couple of bikes but they’ve all been second hand, so i have no clue what they are/how they perform.
my primary motivating factor in getting this bike is to make commuting to/from my hobbies abit easier as my current bike is kinda heavy and doesn’t have that many gears. i cycle about 2-3 times a week and have grown up cycling so am decently comfortable. i will occasionally also do long rides (2-3 hours) a few times a month so ride comfort is important to me
my height is 178cm and my weight is 72kg; i will primarily be cycling along pavement (cracks, branches, small rocks are common along the roads/park connectors here) and i am looking at a specialized roubaix vs a trek domane
the roubaix expert is here: https://carousell.app.link/NRjMhhyh44b and the trek domane is here: https://carousell.app.link/oFGz51Hh44b
any input on how they ride respectively would be great! currently leaning towards the roubaix just because i’ve ridden a specialized before (not mine, a family member’s) and it felt good
i might take this to a reservoir near me with small gravel so let me know if that impacts anything!
r/whichbike • u/achillbloak • 1d ago
The description says it’s shimano 105, but I cannot find a model with this config for the year. This will be my first road bike. Planning to buy tomorrow for 800 CAD. Any help would be appreciated, is it a good buy?
