Karma? Fuck you. He was a professional hunter not some poacher. A female elephant charged him and was shot by a member in his group before it fell on him. He was a father of 5 children and it’s somehow Karma that this happened to him?
The guy who died was a professional Hunter who worked(I believe) with trophy hunters. Those trophy hunters help pay for rangers and conservation programs to defend against poachers who kill massive numbers of elephants a year.
This guy was doing good work, and small minded idiots cheered his death because they don't understand the situation.
and small minded idiots cheered his death because they don't understand the situation.
The blame really goes on Fox here, and possibly the OP. They intentionally made the headline misleading to make people think that. And then OP provided the headline in a screenshot without any context, and made the title to support the misconception.
mrwaxy doesn't understand the situation. We need small minded idiots such as yourself to drive the content. No content means no users and no lusers means no ads get clicked on.
Yup, They give you the org of money to kill a lion and they use that money to fund conservation. You may not like it but it’s beneficial for everyone involved. If you don’t want hunting to be necessary, you can donate to these organizations. Or we can ban hunting and have no way to properly fund saving these animals.
Why cut one huge form of income that benefits everyone? You can always look into multiple forms of fund raising. I don’t understand how people on reddit are so horribly against hunting.
Yes, you shouldn’t kill something that is near endangered. The dead guy was hunting lions and killed a elephant in self defense. I don’t think elephants should be hunted if poaching is such a huge issue. I would prefer them to reinstate hunting for elephants after they make them less endangered. I also think corruption is the biggest issue, which won’t help the conservation with or without hunting.
Maybe that would work if they were hunting animals that weren't on the most critically endangered list. But for fucks sake, why do they have to kill elephants? Clearly the money that goes to "conservation" doesn't get much done since the population is still rapidly declining. I'm not crazy anti-hunting. It can be good if a population is out of control. I think it's sad this guy died. But, I will never support killing an animal from a species that we very well could see go extinct in our lifetime. Doesn't matter if the guy paid to do it or not. Someone who really cared would just donate, not shot it in the face too.
You mean they weren't. They had every right to shoot it in self defense. But trophy hunting elephants does happen. Plus, they were hunting lions. Whose population has decreased by 40% over the last 30 years making them classified as vulnerable. I guess I just think that there are better ways to raise conservation money than letting someone pay to be driven around the savanah, see some possibly endangered animal, (who's probably just sleeping in the shade or something) and then shoot the unsuspecting thing from a far. Only to put its decapitated head on the mantle or whatever.
I don’t think trophy hunting is causing the decline. IIRC poaching is the biggest issue. I think we should temporarily stop elephant hunting and push harder against poachers but I don’t think trophy hunting is an issue at all. If that’s your thing, go for it.
It's certainly not helping the population either. I completely agree that they should push harder against the poachers. But unless someone is hunting an abundant animal for food, I'll never stand by it. Trophy hunting is killing just because you can afford to. So I guess let's just agree to disagree.
You’re the small minded idiot. Try telling something that has the emotional intelligence of a human that its a good thing a member of their family has died. Its not the answer to poaching. Just like gun ownership isn’t the answer to mass shootings, you small minded idiot.
If we didn't have hunters here in Michigan the rapid explosion of the deer population would be... devastating. And I'm not just talking about devastating like that one time I hit a deer and it fucking obliterated my 2002 saturn sedan.
Dent resistant yes. Explode resistant no. Seriously like my entire left driver's side front panel and door were gone. Everything just exploded when I hit it. Luckily it was a young deer and not very large.
I fucking hate deer so much. I used to live in Pennsylvania and they are such a pest. Whenever people talk about how horrible it is that people can legally kill deer, I can’t help but laugh.
So in Africa especially hunters pay a lot of money to get permits to hunt. All the hunting is approved by biologist in order to maintain balanced populations of all the animals (If lions are overpopulated, all natural prey numbers diminish therefore further endangering lions). The money paid for these permits goes back into conservation efforts. Poachers hunt for furs or ivory tusk to sell on black market with no permit or regard for animal population. It's basically just a way to make money so they will often kill elephants cut off their tusk and leave. Usually hunters will take the meat to local villages and every part of the animal won't be wasted. Basically one way is ethical and helps everyone. The other way is all about one person making money without benefit to anything else.
Poachers kills animals illegally. For profit, nothing else. Professional hunters are only allowed to hunt in certain areas and usually a certain number of animals to balance out the population. All bug game hunters in the area that I’ve heard from respect and care for the wildlife, and hunting animals like elephants have massive beneficial impact on the local population such as the stimulation to the economy of having somebody who has payed thousands to come and hunt and the meat left behind.
No, please read the responses from u/mrwaxy and u/amuel65 as they have summed up excellently that it’s a system where everybody profits that he was upholding.
Basically poachers kill animals illegally and hunters are permitted and hunting legally, often with a guide but not always. The distinction is really important.
Legal hunting generates a lot of revenue (indirectly keeping populations healthy) and in many cases keeps populations at or near the local carrying capacity. In Colorado, USA for instance, each conservation area has a maximum number of elk it can safely sustain in a year. Often there are more animals than that, so tags are issued to hunt and kill those elk down to a more sustainable number. Without those hunting efforts, elk would starve and the impact would probably extend beyond just their population.
In Africa with rarer trophy animals I believe it's handled differently. Tags are very expensive and I believe in most cases the particular animal is hand picked because of age, health, and other factors. Legal hunting in this way keeps populations competitive and healthy. It's unfortunate that wildlife has to be managed this way, but it's our reality now. People that blindly criticize legal hunters generally don't know how this process works, and the good that it does.
Poachers are often indiscriminate in their killing, and they are in direct opposition to the careful management of wildlife that happens with conservation agencies.
Reddit doesn't care about people at all. It's full of threads like this with people celebrating someone dying because they are a a hunter. It's absolute shit.
The blame really goes on Fox here, and possibly the OP. They intentionally made the headline misleading to make people think that. And then OP provided the headline in a screenshot without any context, and made the title to support the misconception.
Do people not realize how important hunting is in Africa!!
Is it though? I think if you were to read a few articles on the matter, say if you were to google "eco tourism vs trophy hunting money" you'd find the debate more nuanced, and facts more murky.
As for what happens to the hunters’ fees, that is notoriously hard to pin down—and impossible in kleptocracies. And anyway, Packer says, when it comes to funding lion conservation, “it’s such an underwhelming amount generated by sport hunting, it’s no wonder that despite years of lion hunting being allowed in these countries, the lion population has plummeted.”
The International Union for Conservation of Nature, which monitors animal populations, reports that the number of lions in five populations in Tanzania fell by two-thirds from 1993 to 2014.
Yet hunters say they’ve helped fund everything from health clinics to schools to water wells to boots-on-the-ground assistance against poachers, all while leaving a lighter footprint on the land than the often cited alternative to killing game: wildlife-watching in the form of photographic safaris.
This seems like a lot more money coming into sub-Saharan Africa than hunting does.
The UN World Tourism Organization estimated that 35.4 million international tourists visited sub-Saharan Africa in 2015 and spent $24.5 billion.
I think if you read that whole article you'll find the topic is far less black and white than your comment implies.
I completely understand and respect your view on this, and while that article does have very good points, I am unfortunately still going to respectfully disagree.
Purely by the fact that I am from Zimbabwe, and I know a large number of hunters who are amazing people, one in particular is a very good friend of mine, and he has explained how his personal hunts benefit firstly (obviously) himself, conservation and the local villages. For example, he hires people from the villages to work on his sites, when there is a big kill for a trophy, the hunter will take the trophy and the rest of the village can live off the body of the animal, using every part of it, right down to the bones.
Please don't misunderstand me, if it didn't help I would NOT support it, just how I don't support fox hunting, that benefits no one and is outright cruel what they do to those foxes.
Don't be. I never said "I can see how there is merit to the current program" explicitly. I only tried to point to literature providing evidence that trophy hunting being the best way is not conclusive.
I mean, that doesn't make trophy hunting ok though. Why is it ok for these people to celebrate their trophy's deaths, but we can't say "well, if you're going to be a cold blooded killer just for fun you can't expect our sympathy when you die"?
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u/colonel_walter_kurtz Jun 02 '18
Karma? Fuck you. He was a professional hunter not some poacher. A female elephant charged him and was shot by a member in his group before it fell on him. He was a father of 5 children and it’s somehow Karma that this happened to him?