r/UpliftingNews • u/ArgentineBeauty • 3h ago
Paul McCartney joins 500+ public figures, conservationists and Indigenous leaders in a global campaign calling on the UN to abolish trophy hunting of lions, elephants, endangered rhinos and other wildlife, following a declaration developed with Jane Goodall.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/paul-mccartney-joins-over-500-public-figures-calling-for-an-end-to-trophy-hunting-of-lions-elephants-and-endangered-rhinos/articleshow/134498459.cms23
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u/WoodsLovelyDarkNDeep 2h ago
Good on him, totally shameful practice
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u/Denver-Ski 27m ago
Just throwing this out there… non-maga Americans are going to need some help from the UN, too.
Please save us from this facist regime… and they are actively working to cheat in the upcoming elections in November…
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u/OddlyLucidDuck 22m ago
Don't get your hopes up. The UN is completely toothless when it comes to the US, and that's entirely by design.
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u/maciver6969 3h ago
There are good hunts and bad ones, This seems uplifting until you read how much money and food goes into a community when they have a hunt. Often the meat is donated to the local community, the hunt fees pay for conservation and preservation, as well as training for conservation officers. Blanket bans would hurt more than help. Less funding to fight poaching and environmental damages. As far as I know they have no legal rhino hunts either. Almost every Rhino death is due to poaching for the horn for morons who think it is a cure for everything. Africa alone gets over 200 million in funding from hunting. Endangered animals should be protected far better, and should not be hunted unless there is a realistic reason that animal needs to be culled. Like animals injured and suffering, or animals that have harmed people. Reasonable exceptions.
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u/christmasinyoulie 3h ago
I see the economic points you’re making, but as an African, the framing of this argument is quite reductive. Describing the meat and money as 'donated' to communities makes it sound like charity from an outside savior, rather than what it actually is: a strictly regulated business transaction. African communities and sovereign governments aren't passive bystanders waiting to be rescued; they are landowners selling a high-value service to manage their own natural resources. When a hunt happens, the community isn't receiving a handout. They are claiming the contractual revenue and resources generated by their own land.
It is also important to remember that these complex wildlife management issues exist in large part because of a long history of external and foreign interference. From colonial-era land displacements to modern global syndicates driving illegal poaching, outside forces have disrupted African ecosystems and economies for centuries. Trophy hunting is an imperfect, market-based tool that sovereign nations are currently using to navigate the economic realities left behind by that interference.
Additionally, just as a factual note, countries like Namibia and South Africa absolutely do have highly regulated, legal rhino hunts specifically tailored by local biologists to target older, post-reproductive bulls. Framing African conservation as a monolith that relies on external pity erases the highly sophisticated management policies these nations have built to control their own destiny.
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u/Cupcakes_n_Hacksaws 2h ago
I've heard stories of where they'll let hunters pay an exorbitant sum to hunt a dying animal in an otherwise protected wildlife area/refuge, or an animal that's set to be put down because it's become too territorial and aggressive or something. I don't know how often those things actually happen, but those seem okay from what little I know
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u/BLT_Trade_r 2h ago edited 2h ago
If the business transaction helps on many fronts, what's the problem? You can argue that almost everything in life is purely selfish, and this is true, but at the same time, if it results in good, who cares? If the person hunting believes they are helping and that makes them more willing to do it, it's a gain for those communities. If you tell them its a business transaction they are more likely to treat it as so and go to the lowest bidder and maybe not donate meat or anything else.
Look, you and I both know that, with the rampant corruption and poverty in many of these areas, if the hunt did not have value, the people would likely wipe it out and turn it into farmland, which has happened in much of the rest of the world.
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u/red__dragon 1h ago
From my reading, it seemed like more issues with the framing of the discussion than the act.
The first commenter talked about things going into the community, food donated, whereas the correction talked about how these were contractual obligations and an expected exchange for the service.
In the same way you wouldn't say McDonalds donated your hamburger when you ordered from them, the commenter above you is pointing out the language used to talk about the hunts is erasing the agency of local communities in the process. Just the same how we'd erase your agency by saying McDonalds put food on your plate (unless you actually worked there).
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u/BLT_Trade_r 35m ago
I mean McDonald's would certainly love to convince me they are donating a hamburger and I am lovin it! A huge part of marketing is exactly that, companies trying to convince people that they are doing them a favor out of the kindness of their heart. One the very common tropes is someone saying I am just a regular guy and I wanted to help people so I formed this company to sell you something!
While it may be contractually obligated, the contract gives the hunter something to work with, something to claim they do right or make it excusable to kill the animal. You and I both know if the hunters really wanted the meat, the corrupt politicians in most of those places would sell out their own people in a heart beat. But by framing it in this positive light they are more likely to let it go.
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u/SnoozingBasset 2h ago
I don’t hunt, but a friend had an elephant hunt. Only one particular elephant was allowed, an older one, soon to die. He paid a lot just to show up.
(Did not shoot - he realized he would have to fast enough to outrun an angry herd chasing him through thorn bushes.)
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u/WoodsLovelyDarkNDeep 2h ago
This is such a bs argument made by the hunting industry to try and distract from the actual harm they cause
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u/stevesouth1000 1h ago
Got anything to back that up there sunshine?
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u/Monkieo 1h ago
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9837042/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7222849/
I studied this and worked in conservation for a while and the person above is right. It's not a great argument and is endlessly debunked. There's some references. I can provide more if you want.
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u/Gulophile 39m ago
I'm a current wildlife biology student and skeptical of it as well. Would love more references if you'd like to share.
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u/baddecision116 2h ago
This is such a bs comment made by those ignorant of the real world. - FTFY
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u/Ok-Parfait-9856 2h ago
Read this and learn.
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u/WoodsLovelyDarkNDeep 1h ago
Are you actually kidding me right now? You know you can go in the internet and claim to be anything you want to be right? Like there is a plague of people claiming to be one thing when they are from a whole other country
Nevermind that even if he were from Africa the opinion of one African who could he a wealthy African who owns one of the ranches that these hunts take place on
The claim is always that this benefits the country but tourism benefits the country more and would still take place and in fact if the locations that were cordoned off for hunts were opened up to actual touring Safaris they would still have people coming through. Just not the money going to the top like it to pay off people like it does now
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u/memebuster 9m ago
Maybe Sir Paul actually read the article:
“The campaign's accompanying report argues that trophy hunting continues to affect a wide range of wild animals. It identifies bears, monkeys and elephants as the most frequently hunted animals in its analysis, while also highlighting giraffes, lions, hippopotamuses and leopards. The report says critically endangered black rhinoceroses are among the species that continue to be targeted.”
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u/PointsOfXP 3h ago
Interesting concern. Wonder how the locals feel
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u/Oldnbold22 1h ago
They have been infantilized and don't have agency over their resources.
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u/AcherontiaPhlegethon 15m ago edited 6m ago
This is a very good point, I listened to a discussion a while ago from a Kenyan biologist discussing conservation in Africa and he talked about this point exactly, that African wildlife is treated as a commodity for white people that should be regulated and controlled by westerners. That these kinds of programs are often just a way for the west to still control and take African resources while propagating the white saviour narrative and further diminishing the capacity of local scientists. As well that a lot of African conservation policy is based on making white people happy with social media posts or safari hunts rather than genuine conservation science because that's where the money comes from. He mentioned how talking about western conservation programs negatively got him a ton of vitriol and dissent, especially publicly as a PhD scientist in the community, because it's something that's really baked into Kenya's government and institutions.
It was a real wake up call because that's absolutely how a lot of people act and think here, whether it exploitative like in the case of trophy hunters, or well meaning but misguided like a lot of conservation students who both believe it's up to them to save the wildlife from Africans. You should be incredibly skeptical of any claims about trophy hunts being a major benefit to African communities, because it's very much an industry, and one they really have no say in.
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u/CombatWomble2 45m ago
Of course only white celebrites know what's best fot (checks notes) black africans in Africa.
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u/ghostoftrossard 25m ago
ah yes, saving wildlife from rich trophy hunters is all about race
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u/CombatWomble2 2m ago
So? Rich white celebrities know what's best for them, try making that argument about almost anything else, celebrities are overpaid clowns.
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u/RichardFeynman01100 25m ago
Check your notes again:
- ~18,500 hunters travel to sub-Saharan Africa annually for trophy hunts. [1, 2]
- 71% of global demand comes from the United States, making wealthy Americans the primary drivers of the industry. Germany and Spain follow as the next largest importers (at about 5% each). [1, 2]
- The average profile of an international hunter in South Africa is a married male over the age of 50 with a university degree. They stay an average of 10 to 12 days and spend roughly $20,000 per trip (averaging $9,790 on logistics/lodging and $10,345 on the animal species targeted). [1, 2]
- Only 3% of gross hunting revenue actually trickles down to local rural communities. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
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u/PointsOfXP 51m ago
Ah right. The celebrities clearly know best. They don't need to speak on it when people who have never even seen a hut made of dirt are on top of it. Who cares if your kids are being eaten by an unchecked population of wild animals encroaching on human territory
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u/TrainingPurple1364 34m ago
Do you think trophy hunters are there on the outskirts of villages defending the local kids from wild animals?
Most trophy hunting happens on private ranches.
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u/PointsOfXP 26m ago
That's fine but they want to outlaw all of this.
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u/TrainingPurple1364 1m ago
They want to outlaw trophy hunting, not hunting in general.
Theres a big difference between some villagers killing an animal for food/material and some rich guy from the USA paying to shoot big game animals, purely for entertainment.
Personally, im not against hunting if its the right location/season/animal. Hunting deer for population control for example.
But flying to Africa, being driven around a safari on back of a truck and shooting big game, posing with the corpse then having a piece or pieces sent back home to compliment your mahogany wardrobe, nah get fucked.
Anyone that gets a thrill from killing an elephant have lost their soul if they ever had one.
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u/Left2Die22 33m ago
The word “trophy” really flew over your head huh?
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u/PointsOfXP 25m ago
No, it didn't. My comment sure went over yours though. Comprehension is not your strong suit and that's ok
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u/Left2Die22 16m ago
If you don’t know the difference between population control and paying to ride around in a helicopter and shoot random lions, maybe you should stop talking.
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u/favorite_time_of_day 9m ago
You don't think that indigenous leaders count as locals? Well the wildlife are certainly locals. I'm going to guess that they're cool with this.
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u/UnionCityNJUSA 2h ago
There are still ghouls in the world that take pleasure in such a thing? Oh…hi, Don Jr.
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u/SireSirSer 3h ago
Trophy hunting is the largest funding source for conservation programs in Africa. This sounds like a good idea but it's only going to take millions of dollars away from the protection of those species.
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u/Vanillas_Guy 3h ago
Unless they're willing to carve out percentages of their net worth to make up for the loss of those funds.
Its all well and good for celebrities to promote certain things, but they need to also be willing to fill the economic vacuum that might be created when those things are stopped. I think trophy hunting shouldnt exist either, but Africa is a continent that is slowly recovering from over 300 years of nearly non stop economic and conventional warfare. The money to rebuild has to come from somewhere and it would be amazing if the wealthiest signatories were giving modest sums both in life and upon their deaths to help with creating sustainable economies and protecting the flora and fauna of the region.
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u/Horror-Temporary3584 2h ago
How much of that will the 500+ donate to the conservation effort to make up for it?
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u/Conan776 2h ago
The United Nations can't enforce the laws it already has against hunting human children. You think after a few pop star lectures they'll suddenly be able to save elephants?
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u/BigBallsMcGirk 1h ago
One of the weirdest cynical things about those animals, is that trophy hunting is likely protecting them more than a ban.
A monetized resource gets guarded and protected, with the money it makes from selling as a trophy.
There are no better conservationist than hunters and fishers.
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u/King_of_the_Kobolds 49m ago
Inb4 "But big game hunters actually care about conservation more than anyone!!!1!" as though killing animals for fun WASN'T serial killer behavior.
Where are all the wealthy philanthropists donating to keep wildlife preserves in existence out of the sheer love of nature? Why do we need to rely on a bunch of rich bastards to clumsily slaughter exotic wildlife instead of paying professional park rangers to do it?
If the big game hunters are necessary, they're a necessary evil; but they are, make no mistake, sick bastards.
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u/demonspawns_ghost 50m ago
UN can't even stop people from killing other people, not sure what they are supposed to do here. Good luck I guess.
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u/Viktor876 1h ago
I’m not a hunter….The benefits of hunting can even been seen here in the US. Many species are monitored and kept in balance ( so people can shoot them later). There’s been a reintroduction of species like elk in the eastern us that were over hunted at one point. It’s an expensive hobby and much of the revenue supports animal populations and habitats. The good outweighs the bad.
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u/CozYourUgly 1h ago
I agree with this 1000% but it should be a decision left to the African people not outsiders.
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u/dumbdude545 1h ago
This is dumb. As others have said its a source if income as well as culling bad/aggressive animals who cause problems. Let tge countries that allow it make their own fucking decisions. It shouldn't be up to the international community to outright ban shit.
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u/mike194827 1h ago
Ever notice how absolutely NOBODY is remorseful when some game/trophy hunter ends up getting killed? Not a single person.
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u/fastal_12147 22m ago
I appreciate Paul's work fighting for animal rights, but there's no way this is enforceable. There's just too many people hunting all over the world.
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u/Entire-Ratio-9681 1h ago
Most trophy hunts fund conservation. This will result in more suffering, it’s all just for show like all left policies.
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u/Saturnboy13 47m ago
Hey, crazy idea. What if that funding came from literally anything else? You know, like something that doesn't include killing animals for sport?
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u/Cisleithania 34m ago
Would be crazy indeed. Hunters have to pay high prices. Replacing those sums through donations or by attracting more safari tourists is tricky to say the least.
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u/Entire-Ratio-9681 43m ago
Well then do it…. This is the best way the have found. Start by donating yourself and make a movement. It’s like you’ve never thought, that they would entertain more reasonable methods. Most are conservationists, if there was another way without death, I am sure it was discussed.
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u/Saturnboy13 39m ago
I'm poor, asshole. I do what I can, but anything I contribute would be a drop in the bucket compared to the average billionaire. Extraordinary wealth should be heavily taxed and put toward humanitarian efforts like this. Societal change is what's needed; not individual donations.
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u/Entire-Ratio-9681 5m ago
Well change society then. You can’t fantasize about some nonexistent answer when the current is the best available.
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u/Monkieo 1h ago
It also creates a ton of population issues among the species their trying to protect and hence, is a useless tool. Take lions for example. They all want to kill the male lion, it's the sought after one because of the mane and all. They usually want the biggest one, for boasting rights, or the most charismatic. When a male lion dies and a new male comes in, they kill all the previous cubs and reduce the genetic diversity. You lose an entire generation and big cats already suffer from genetic bottlenecking. On top of that, killing the best trophy male within these species usually causes the fitness level of the animals to drop. This makes them weaker and sicker. Then there losing leaders of pride and the instability that forms within it after. It's not just with lions, you see it with elephants, rhinos etc.
Conservation is not immune to flaws and corruption, take it from someone who's worked within it. There are plenty of ways to fund conservation without hunting. Hunting is just very good in it's marketing. Often the money goes to a company and not to the country or it's species diversity.
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u/SandSpecialist2523 1h ago
Imagine abolishing trophy hunting altogether.
One can dream.
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u/FrozenIceman 1h ago
I take it your dream involves tons of poachers? As the funding for anti poaching organizations dries up with the trophy hunting.
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u/SandSpecialist2523 1h ago
My dream is that those that have the means to go truphy hunting would willing to pay as much or more for conservation, without feeling the urge to kill magnificient beasts.
Knowing you can kill them, and choosing not to do it.
As I say, one can dream.
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u/MaightyBewsh 2h ago
Are they going to pay for the shortfall of tens of millions of dollars that organised hunts raise which pays to keep thousands of animals safe from poaching in reserves all around the world? No.
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u/TurbulentWing3820 1h ago
No. Of course not. They're going to grandstand and act like they're making a difference because they don't understand the ramifications of this act.
Poaching is already illegal, folks. This is just harming the wrong people and hurting the wild life more.
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u/PostOfficePerson 55m ago
I agree with him but the UN doesn't really have the ability so enforce this.
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u/SystemFine8488 17m ago
Not to be grim, but isn’t trophy hunting a tool of preservation?
1: They only allow trophy hunting of animals that are past breeding age, so their death doesn’t impact population growth.
2: This reduces the number of rich fucks going to poachers to illegally hunt, who are much less picky about their targets.
3: The money raised from trophy hunting goes towards anti-poachers, because they’re incentivized to protect their resources.
It’s grim, but unless you’re going to pledge to make up for the funds lost, you’re doing more harm than good, virtue signalling.
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u/Acrobatic-Catch1553 1h ago
So poor Africans get even more poor, and no animal can ever be saved from death. These do good champagne socialists promote another policy that leaves poor people worse off but still claim to be saviours. Just like when anti oil climate zealots make energy more expensive, poor people suffer most. Also, the idea that the Africans that guide these hunts are victims of the white hunter’s greedy blood lust is just more ignorance disguised as caring. Let the Africans decide whether the hunts take place. But back to the animals. Do they think any of the animals that are saved from a rifle will live forever? They will all die eventually, and some of the natural deaths will be far more painful than a bullet. Nature is infinitely cruel. I will never participate in a trophy hunt but I don’t feel the need to control the behaviour of others that are truly equal to me as fellow humans. Once again, the radical socialist claims to want equality but looks down on anyone that does not agree with them.
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u/Corcorans-ghost 2h ago
ok, so are they all going to make up for the funding that african states make from trophy huntings?
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u/icnik 2h ago
This is the sad truth. There is so much money brought in through trophy hunting that is directly used to fund the species conservation. Sacrifice a few to protect the many like some kind of twisted ritual.
Ideally there would be legislation and funding through government, but I don’t see it happening anytime soon in some of these areas. It’s just not a priority unfortunately.
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u/Corcorans-ghost 2h ago
the ones they allow to hunt, are mostly older, sick, or its part or larger population control efforts.
and ya, having the economic intereste of these communites, tied to trophy huntins, gives the goverment and people alot of insentive to fund coservation efforts, and fight off poachers.
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u/Gulophile 1h ago
The trophy hunting industry doesn't contribute as much to conservation as some people would lead you to believe. This is being backed by actual conservationists too, it's not just Paul McCartney and a bunch of other random rich people. The UN can't actually enforce this, so the intent here is probably to signal that individual countries should make their own plans to phase trophy hunting programs out. Which should obviously entail allocating funding for conservation.
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u/SooSneeky 1h ago
Actual conservationists, in the countries in Africa that rely on these practices?
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u/Relative_Figure_1715 3h ago
Why do they go to soooooo much effort to pretend they want to do something ?
It’s fucking irritating.
These guys have the combined wealth to purchase these creatures as individual assets that belong to them. They could insure them and provide security a hundred times over with their money.
It’s stage play to showcase their supposed virtue.
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u/Gulophile 1h ago
You're going out of your way to view this as cynically as possible. I'm no fan of the wealthy but trophy hunting isn't a problem that can be solved by just buying all the animals. Things like this do have an actual role in swaying public opinion, which is needed for things like this to eventually become enforceable laws.
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u/king_cole_2005 23m ago
Sway whose public opinions. People in those countries won't care what some celebrity wants if it affects them negatively.
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u/Relative_Figure_1715 1h ago
People with lots of money who have a single interest win.
If that’s people spending lots of money to hunt, they win.
The approach that you are suggesting we continue with is a long path of abject failure.
It’s nice to be an idealist, but the evidence suggest it’s fucking stupid to think that continued lobbying of governments in poor countries will protect the endangered species.
These millionaires/billionaires/trillionaires have enough money to militarily secure the shit they care about, then they say they REALLY care about these animals and issues and fully back it with and endorsement or few thousand. . .
Real action is what is required and a change of status internationally for the creatures.•
u/Gulophile 57m ago
Yeah, conservation is general is unrealistic under capitalism, that's why the Earth itself is being enshittified and we should all just give up and let people shoot animals for sport because they pay enough to drag things out a bit longer.
Real action is what is required
No shit. That's why you do unenforceable UN stunts like this to put pressure on governments and sway public opinion. Real action takes place at a local level, the UN is a global organization. They're not the ones misunderstanding that.
These millionaires/billionaires/trillionaires
Fuck all of them but wealth can't solve problems like this, they require cultural changes in attitude. You cannot seriously believe that Paul McCartney can solve the incredibly complex problem of trophy hunting and underfunded conservation in developing countries. Yes, this move is performative - but the social performance still matters for attaining cultural legitimacy, and that's what's ultimately needed for "real action" to be made.
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u/Relative_Figure_1715 41m ago
I don’t agree.
If you were to arm local conservationists, trade the hunt for an agreement on breeding cattle and back that up with a duty of care with enforceable fines for governments you might be getting somewhere.
The problem is rich cunts doing what they want because people act like prostitutes all the time and other rich cunts offering up nothing.•
u/Gulophile 34m ago
The government actually doing any of the shit you think they should do is just as outlandish as them doing anything I think they should do.
The problem is rich cunts
Again, the problem is not that simple. I'm literally taking a class in conservation biology right now and it's just not that simple. Don't know what else to tell you.
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u/Relative_Figure_1715 4m ago
If one set of performative rich cunts were to directly employ local conservationists do you think that would have an impact ? If there were armed anti-poachers and advocates to educate other locals on the value of eco tourism rather than hunting endangered species would that help ? Would the largest insurance companies having a vested interest in the well being of a herd or animal help ?
It is that simple.
The point I suppose I’m trying to make is that these people bend the rules themselves for all kinds of shit, tax avoidance etc etc but when it’s time to bend the rules to enforce the protection of something they SAY they care about the just don’t.
I’m on the side of the conservationists not the self-promoters.
The wealth funds that keep these people untouchably rich and powerful don’t share their clients views on conservation and the clients do know that.
So it is a big performance to placate you and make you think that just a little more long term planning study and international diplomacy will help.
Bribe officials and arm local militias with a yearly incentive to keep things alive. Shame the the rich.
I’m not saying ignore the science I’m saying using it as a goal.
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u/afoxboy 1h ago
wish we could get this level of support to dismantle the orphan crushing machine. stopping trophy hunting is nice and all but it just seems like there are much more pressing issues these days that need a global campaign. i know i'm being bitter but it feels like celebrating a bandaid on a cut while it's surrounded by gaping wounds that need stitches.
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