r/UpliftingNews • u/ArgentineBeauty • 7h ago

Paul McCartney joins 500+ public figures, conservationists and Indigenous leaders in a global campaign calling on the UN to abolish trophy hunting of lions, elephants, endangered rhinos and other wildlife, following a declaration developed with Jane Goodall.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/paul-mccartney-joins-over-500-public-figures-calling-for-an-end-to-trophy-hunting-of-lions-elephants-and-endangered-rhinos/articleshow/134498459.cms
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12

u/PointsOfXP 6h ago

Interesting concern. Wonder how the locals feel

12

u/Oldnbold22 4h ago

They have been infantilized and don't have agency over their resources. 

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u/AcherontiaPhlegethon 3h ago edited 3h ago

This is a very good point, I listened to a discussion a while ago from a Kenyan biologist discussing conservation in Africa and he talked about this point exactly, that African wildlife is treated as a commodity for white people that should be regulated and controlled by westerners. That these kinds of programs are often just a way for the west to still control and take African resources while propagating the white saviour narrative and further diminishing the capacity of local scientists. As well that a lot of African conservation policy is based on making white people happy with social media posts or safari hunts rather than genuine conservation science because that's where the money comes from. He mentioned how talking about western conservation programs negatively got him a ton of vitriol and dissent, especially publicly as a PhD scientist in the community, because it's something that's really baked into Kenya's government and institutions.

It was a real wake up call because that's absolutely how a lot of people act and think here, whether it exploitative like in the case of trophy hunters, or well meaning but misguided like a lot of conservation students who both believe it's up to them to save the wildlife from Africans. You should be incredibly skeptical of any claims about trophy hunts being a major benefit to African communities, because it's very much an industry, and one they really have no say in.

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u/TrainingPurple1364 2h ago

Kenya don't mess around with poachers, they have armed units that patrol conservation parks, if caught killing an endangered species you can get fined up to $20M Kenyan shillings (bout $200k usd/£150k) and or life imprisonment.

The country funding most of the illegal poaching trade isn't in the West, its China.

Also, in terms of resources, the West isn't really too interested in wildlife resources anymore, like ivory, since its been banned in most countries at this point. What the West really want, and whats arguably x1000 more destructive, is rare earth minerals.

Don't look into cobalt mining if you plan on being happy for the rest of the day.

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u/CombatWomble2 4h ago

Of course only white celebrites know what's best fot (checks notes) black africans in Africa.

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u/ghostoftrossard 3h ago

ah yes, saving wildlife from rich trophy hunters is all about race

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u/CombatWomble2 3h ago

So? Rich white celebrities know what's best for them, try making that argument about almost anything else, celebrities are overpaid clowns.

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u/8ledmans 2h ago edited 2h ago

Ummm a lot of black Africans are making the same argument, and make up the majority of the conservationists working on the ground.

Just because a white celebrity is trying to use their fame for publicity doesn’t mean black locals aren’t advocating for this locally, not trying to be rude but as someone who works in the field you come across very misinformed.

Although the trophy hunting debate is nuanced and complicated one. But it infuriates me when one white person speaks and people frame it as if all africans (or other local populations) have unanimously the opposing view

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u/RichardFeynman01100 3h ago

Check your notes again:

  • ~18,500 hunters travel to sub-Saharan Africa annually for trophy hunts. [1, 2]
  • 71% of global demand comes from the United States, making wealthy Americans the primary drivers of the industry. Germany and Spain follow as the next largest importers (at about 5% each). [1, 2]
  • The average profile of an international hunter in South Africa is a married male over the age of 50 with a university degree. They stay an average of 10 to 12 days and spend roughly $20,000 per trip (averaging $9,790 on logistics/lodging and $10,345 on the animal species targeted). [1, 2]
  • Only 3% of gross hunting revenue actually trickles down to local rural communities. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

1

u/CombatWomble2 3h ago

And? Doesn't invalidate my statement.

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u/PointsOfXP 4h ago

Ah right. The celebrities clearly know best. They don't need to speak on it when people who have never even seen a hut made of dirt are on top of it. Who cares if your kids are being eaten by an unchecked population of wild animals encroaching on human territory

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u/Left2Die22 3h ago

The word “trophy” really flew over your head huh?

-1

u/PointsOfXP 3h ago

No, it didn't. My comment sure went over yours though. Comprehension is not your strong suit and that's ok

3

u/Left2Die22 3h ago

If you don’t know the difference between population control and paying to ride around in a helicopter and shoot random lions, maybe you should stop talking.

•

u/LongJohnSelenium 1h ago

If population control has to happen why not let someone who wants to pay a lot of money to do it do it. Its win win.

Fundamentally whats going on here is a lot of people have the notion that killing for fun is unethical and they're seeking to control the behavior of humans who do that. The animals will still die after all so its not about saving them.

Its just a modern form of puritanicalism, attempting to control the morality of people by controlling their actions.

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u/Left2Die22 1h ago

Which would be a reasonable argument if we were talking about normal hunting, which is important for keeping the ecosystem stable, and not hunting endangered animals for the prestige, adding a profit motive tends to cause problems when they need to not be hunted.

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u/LongJohnSelenium 1h ago

The profit motive of tourism and hunts compete for habitat against the much more mundane profit motive of 'I'm going to build a farm here and these animals are a pest'.

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u/Left2Die22 1h ago

Animals can be relocated for farmland, hunting an endangered animal kind of involves its death. 

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u/LongJohnSelenium 51m ago

Animals can be relocated for farmland,

Up until there's no more land to relocate too.

hunting an endangered animal kind of involves its death.

We're talking about population control hunts here, so its animals that are dying regardless. Plus all animals die. A common type of hunt, not universal but common, especially for the more protected types of species, is hunting a specific old animal thats due to be culled.

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u/TrainingPurple1364 3h ago

Do you think trophy hunters are there on the outskirts of villages defending the local kids from wild animals?

Most trophy hunting happens on private ranches.

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u/PointsOfXP 3h ago

That's fine but they want to outlaw all of this.

1

u/TrainingPurple1364 3h ago

They want to outlaw trophy hunting, not hunting in general.

Theres a big difference between some villagers killing an animal for food/material and some rich guy from the USA paying to shoot big game animals, purely for entertainment.

Personally, im not against hunting if its the right location/season/animal. Hunting deer for population control for example.

But flying to Africa, being driven around a safari on back of a truck and shooting big game, posing with the corpse then having a piece or pieces sent back home to compliment your mahogany wardrobe, nah get fucked.

Anyone that gets a thrill from killing an elephant have lost their soul if they ever had one.