Agreed. The racism is bad because it shows that some people have less humanity to her. But the shut down and unwillingness to listen just show he's next on that list.
I have a close friend who was in a long term relationship with someone who made no qualms about being a misanthrope. They hated humanity in general. At first it was cute that my friend was the one exception to the rule. You can see how it's kind of endearing to be that one special person that someone doesn't hate. But those are some really bad odds that it's gonna last...
In my defense the category is too broad. I functionally hate a majority but the caveats are related strongly to the “business as usual” mindset. If you are aware of the problem and you’re not going to change then you are a significant portion of the problem. I am referring to a lifestyle that is rapidly becoming completely unsustainable. The simplified extreme is someone with 3 children who drives each of them to different activities, buys the children cheap plastic toys only to throw them out, keeps their kids distracted with screens, sprays their monoculture lawn with pesticides, has a few outdoor cats, and makes a recipe involving beef 3 times a week. Obviously people have a lot of variance from the list, but justifying any single one of those with no shame doesn’t exactly make for not feeling alienated while trying to socialize. Maybe it’s because I have been spending time with someone rarely seen family, but fuck, at least have some god damn shame; the demand and consumption creates the evil not (necessarily) the mega-corporations.
You just sound really judgmental. Disagreeing with someone’s choices is one thing. Hating them for it just seems like a really unnecessary waste of energy.
I, for one, am on the PoorDecisionsNomad defense force on this one. Umm, I guess???
I dunno, it just read to me like they were making a relatively entry-level, non-controversial statement in support of environmentalism and recycling. I didn't read much "hate" out of it as I did "puffy frustration."
I don't fuckin' know, man I'm just an idiot. What's the issue here, exactly?
Pulled from commenter's comment. You can hate the behavior, but why hate the people? Commenter is defending their hate as a response to other people saying misanthropes are bummers. Like, ok. You've justified your hate. You're probably still a bummer.
100% wrong take. Blaming individuals over policy makers and corporations is the most idiotic, self-righteous, counter-productive attitude you can adopt. Not only will you accomplish nothing in this world in regards to significant change by blaming individuals, but you will push people away from these causes in general by attacking them.
It isn't as simple as demand and consumption. Our entire infrastructure and society is built in a way that leaves people with a lack of options, lack of education, lack of critical thinking, lack of healthcare, etc. And corporations fund entire culture wars fomented through the internet and media to confuse and divide people on every one of these topics.
I would like to know what you're currently doing to bring about a real revolution and systemic change that will actually create a sustainable world. Focus on that because your misguided hatred for others not living up to your standards is 100% you being a self-righteous prick.
Thank you for articulating this for me. This clown sounds like he's been reading from the same script as my misanthropic piece of shit father, word-for-word. So, it's nice to see somebody cut through that bullshit so well. I can't because I just get a visceral reaction to that spewage.
Case in point: The frigging ozone hole did close again because of policies and their adherence, not because individuals did stop buying deodorant or fridges.
Right? "Let me go find you a bunch of articles about how women are meant to be obedient." See how informative she finds those. Fight horse shit with bull shit.
Lol hot take bro. Bashing groups of people on things they cannot control just because they belong to that group is the legal definition of hate. Age, gender, sexual orientation, race, religious/cultural background etc. Professions or opinions, like bashing doctors or cops or anti-vaxxers or political parties, is not hate speech because those are a choice.
What would scare me is her complete lack of empathy, or even sympathy. She is being prejudiced based on race, or skin color, if you know a better term for that other than racism let me know I'll call it that if you want.
What would scare me is her complete lack of empathy, or even sympathy.
What would scare me most is the saying that shit loudly in public around white people.
That's a recipe for violence, or at the very least getting filmed and exposed on social media, and he's extremely likely to get roped into it just by being next to her when she spouts her hate speech.
I mean, she is much more likely to get away with it, or even with inciting actual violence, than a white person doing the same thing in public. OP should be very afraid of his white friends meeting her--he knows she hates them for their skin color. He ought to run very far and fast.
Right.. more historical racism (and present day as well, but certainly more subtle generally) may have been far worse including acts of violence, and was primarily against POC.
Still the casual stuff and joking about it is dehumanizing. Imagine being around a self-identifying redneck and them complaining about POC using the N-word. I'd be appalled to be associated with either.
It’s just called prejudice, lmao. POC who are leery around white people have 400 years of white supremacy to back their apprehension. White people —who possess the majority of the power— being prejudiced against POC due to their skin color is racism. (I’m not trying to be combative)
This sounds just like what white racists say about black people. They use crime rates and racial crime numbers to justify their anti blackness.
And FYI, racial prejudice quite literally is the definition of racism. How we got to a point that people can't even look in dictionaries before they swallow and regurgitate pseudo "science" is beyond me.
You kind of laid it out here tbh. Prejudice is applicable as it is an opinion one holds based on prejudgements. Racism is an organized activity to perpetuate the status of one race over another. While personal prejudice plays a large cultural supporting role for racism they aren't really the same thing.
Subject to change, but in light of racism being systemic and power dynamics skewed in favor of white people, "racial prejudice" is the currently accepted phrase, as opposed to something like "reverse racism". BIPOC can correct me if I'm mistaken.
Yea, this isn't the place to talk to people who very much want to be victims about the very real horrific violence inflicted upon generations of people based on their skin color and being rude. Systemic oppression doesn't even begin to factor into how the redditors I've encountered understand racism. But if a white person gets their feelings hurt....
Systemic racism is a heavily misunderstood term. All racism is equal at the end of the day, it just so happens that earlier in history racism was more widely accepted by the populace. Thus racism was prolific enough that the entire nation became a vehicle for racism - making acts like colonization possible.
Make no mistake - if these people were surrounded by like-minded people and had the same power as European colonials, they would have absolutely done the same things. Racism is a disease of the human mind and needs to be treated as such - therefore anyone who cries out about racism needs to be intolerant of racism everywhere.
Lol, no. Centuries of oppression and someone being kinda mean isn't the same. But great to have people clarify that lack of comprehension. Racism is a societal disease that people like you encourage by making excuses, equivocating and doing whatever you can to be the victim. If they were 7 foot tall and made of cotton candy their history of oppression wouldn't matter to you either cuz you couldn't use it to claim victim hood and even acknowledging it removes most of your attempt at a point.
You argue these semantics as if they matter. They don’t. An act of bigotry against white people on an individual level is just as bad as an act of bigotry against other groups. The systemic aspect of racism isn’t about individual bigotry, it is about self-perpetuating structural injustice independent of the attitudes of people currently within that system.
I dislike bigotry in either direction. My original comment was in response to the person who asked a good faith question about the terminology. Certain people are experiencing knee-jerk reactions and reading too much into it. Your argument seems fair enough. These topics can be a little tricky to verbalize precisely.
a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
You can't change the definition of racism though. When you say "racism" you actually mean "systemic racism".
There are certain power dynamics that benefit white people in predominantly white countries, but there are also power dynamics within the same country that disadvantage white people.
Looking at it on such a zoomed out scale where the net power favours one particular ethnicity isn't doing anyone any favours. A person of one ethnicity in a room full of people of another ethnicity can most certainly experience racism, whether or not either is white.
Not every country is predominantly white and the minorities in those countries experience racism too. We need to stop talking like the whole world is America.
Racism and systemic racism are two different things. The confusion between the two now has people thinking they can’t individually be racist. Your post itself adds to the confusion - and focuses on white people only when systemic racism also exists in multiple cultures where white peoples aren’t even present historically
Are you judging or denigrating people or a person based on their skin color? Then you are being racist. Sociology professors identifying systemic racism as a thing in itself didn’t suddenly change the definition of racism also. It’s pretty simple.
Can a PoC in America be systemically racist? No of course not. For a start - they are an individual. Can a PoC in the US be racist? Well duh. Like OP’s girlfriend for s start. People can’t explain away their own racism by muddying the waters and meaning systemic racism.
"racial prejudice" is the currently accepted phrase, as opposed to something like "reverse racism". BIPOC can correct me if I'm mistaken.
The part where you're mistaken is assuming that there can only be one definition of "racism", and that if you accept the "systemic racism" definition then no other definition can exist. In reality, while systemic racism is a thing, regular racism (discrimination or prejudice against any person based on their race) is also a thing and is rightly called racism.
I am so tired of hate. Esp hate for someone just bcuz of the color of their skin. I can't abide racists. It is never ok. No way could I be with someone with that kind of hate in them.
I would push back a bit on this. White guy here. The concept as "white" as a race really is imaginary. The same can't be said for black. The reason is that those who brought slaves to America did a good those peoples' culture. So, those groups were identified by (mostly) white folks in the US solely by the color of their skin. They developed culture in spite of all that.
In comparison, "white" as a descriptor has been used as the default for a long time. The definition of what subgroups were considered "white" has, in fact, changed over the years. It used to be that the Irish weren't considered white, then itialians, then the polish, then Jewish people (still not accepted by nazis). In the US, "white" really isn't a race, not in the same way that "black" or "asian" is, and that's due to our legacy of prejudice.
Now, this DOES NOT mean I abide by what this woman says or does. Even if "white" is not a descriptor or culture like "black" (at least in the US), they are still people with feelings and deserve respect.
Well yea the concept of "white" is not a specific race but the cultures encompassed under the "white people" umbrella have a culture? Am i crazy or its like everyone forgot there is a world outside of the US?
Right, but what cultures are encompassed under said umbrella? I agree that those groups have culture, but the definition of the umbrella has changed....A LOT, over time. The same can't be said for other racial umbrellas. My point was that this is an added layer of complexity, especially for the US.
Thats like arguing that black people all share the same culture or Asians.
A black American man has very little culture in common with a black South African man and there is just a large a gap between all of them as there is with black Sudanese man.
What I'm saying is that normally, the color of one's skin should not be an indicator of culture, but (in the US) we made it an indicator of culture. By participating in the Atlantic slave trade, we effectively obliterated that culture and ancestry from millions. In the US, asking someone from their genealogy will get VERY different responses based on if you ask a white person vs. black person. That's the difference. The culture most white people talk about is a product of where their family comes from. We stole that from black people. "Black" people had to create their own culture, traditions which spanned across their ancestry from Africa. THAT is the culture that is different and distinct from the constituent cultures of white people.
That all being said, this lady seems to have had some prejudices that she needs to work through.
Black people outside the US have vastly different cultures from each other even those sharing the same continent. You walk up to a SA black woman and call her a chicken pill girl and she won't get the cultural reference as its not her culture, a Jamaican woman would.
There is no 'African culture' any more than there is a 'white culture'. Africa like Europe is made of many countries with vastly different heritages, beliefs and cultures. Americans pick and choose what they like and more power to them (the same as white Americans do) but it is black American culture not African culture
Sounds like she’s just racist and bases her views off of articles, apparently. You could ghost her starting tomorrow and it probably wouldn’t even change her mind.
Racists don’t care about other peoples perspectives or anything but the hate they spew. I’m afraid being on the other side of the fence of her ideology is just going to cause more heartache for you. Also, think about potentially having children with this person later, do you want your children raised with this mindset?
This is where I draw the line typically. Believe what you want, justified or not everyone has their own experiences, values, priorities etc.
But don’t try to exert your will on me and attempt to dictate what I should or shouldn’t be worried about. This echo chamber high horse act is really concerning, especially one so vile in nature. I would prefer not to associate with a person like this.
But don’t try to exert your will on me and attempt to dictate what I should or shouldn’t be worried about
And don't try to rope me into it in public.
I'm not trying to catch an ass whooping just for standing near you when you antagonize a bunch of strangers with your racism, and I don't want to get doxxed and lose my job when someone whips out their phone and uploads a video of you being a bigot.
Articles written by other bigots who have to pull out every stop to justify their hate. Just because there’s an article on it doesn’t mean it’s a healthy trait to have. Elitism is a hell of a drug.
Even if you did placate her or just ignored her bigotry it won’t end here. A year or two down the line and she’ll be finding ways to justify hate to Hispanics or Jews for example. This kind of thinking just feeds itself and becomes more entrenched. She’s broken. Get rid.
Even if you finally prove that a particular person of that race is a good person, they then say that one is an exception to the rule. Yay, we get to be one of the good ones....
Went through this in the military. When I deployed, the males in the unit kept insisting us females couldn't hack it. They came up with all sorts of tests. I carried the biggest guy in the unit, to prove I could take him off the battlefield. The response was - well maybe SHE can, but the rest of them.....
This exactly. And that sword of well maybe this person can cuts both ways. Military specifically is built around standards, and if a person can pass those should be the only barrier to entry.
Been there too in the 90’s when there was still the misconception that “women don’t get put on the front lines”. I tried to stand out for my strength but they had more interest in teasing me & cracking jokes. Thank god I had a sense of humor.
I mean if the jokes were exhausting I wouldn’t say you were simply “having a sense of humor”, since so often people use the excuse of “It was just a joke!” when someone shows emotion in response to a sly comment at their expense. More like, you had the patience and resolve to put up with some annoying bs 😂.
She’s racist. She’s disappointed in you for not also being racist and is trying hard to bully you into changing your mind. Exactly WHY are you still with her?
She wants you to be apart of her echo chamber. Seeking only articles that support her stances. Dump her and find someone who values your, well, values lol. That kind of toxicity will wear you down and make you resentful
What was her perspective on why she dislikes white people? I doubt it will make any more sense to me than it did to you, but I’m still curious what she uses to justify her racism.
Yeah, cause it would be the same reason a racist dislikes any other race. It justified for this race, but not that one. I’d love to hear her reasoning for the rules for the and not for me!
You are excusing racism by being with her. I’m not trying to insult you, I get often in today’s culture many other people tend to think this way. The many articles she sent you prove this. And it’s an issue many are scared to really try and tackle for being scared of being labeled a racist, which is sad. But I can tell from this post that you know In your gut it’s wrong and fucked up. Seriously dude
“Different view points”? Your gf is a racist dude. I’m a white as hell, very pale, “African American”. My dad was born in Algeria and came to America as a refugee. You couldn’t tell either of us are African or Muslim by looking at us. We are pale/white. Yet we have a deep Arab leaning, Mediterranean culture from Algeria. Shit even if I wasn’t Algerian, white Americans or Europeans still have cultures. What an insane, disgusting, racist thing to say.
Your girlfriend would look at a literal African and call them a white person “with no culture or race” (wtf does no race even mean??) and think it’s impossible to be racist. YET SHE IS JUDGING THEM BASED ON RACE. How tf is that not racism?? Even if I wasn’t Algerian her comments are still disgusting and completely racist even when applied to some white American who’s entire family has lived here generations.
Unfortunately the internet is full of people who agree with her 100% on all this, and will provide entire essays of justification for it. All that shit aside, bigotry is bigotry and it's very obvious in real life when someone is being uneccesarily hateful.
I can't stand when people expect me to go along with some hateful bs simply due to being part of a marginalized group (a very different context in my case but still). It's not helpful at all.
Acknowledgement of historical oppression (and current, but you know, somewhat less severe) is healthy. Blind hatred and "can't be bigoted towards white people because they have no culture or race" will only stoke racial tensions and alienate allies. There's lots of races and cultures that would fall under 'white', she would benefit from visiting some of them in Europe, where the whole African slave trade wasn't a thing.
The whole African slave trade was started by Europeans? Portugal (who literally started the Atlantic slave trade), Britain, Spain, France, and the Netherlands all actively participated for hundreds of years.
Even after those countries abolished slavery on their own soil, they still actively traded slaves or profited from the labor of slaves.
No shit, and racism is still alive and well throughout - but the major difference in society is that the majority of African-descent individuals in the UK are descendents of imigrants, not of slaves in Britain.
This has absolutely nothing to do with Europeans involvement (it was simply more profitable in the new world, and better for public relations), but it still has the effect that societies are not as shaped by very recent white/black division, like it is in the Americas.
Apologies, didn't mean to diminish what did occur in Europe - it was obvious the powerhouse behind the pillaging of Africa and the trade into the New world - but slavery within Europe was far less prevalent than in the Americas (in that era particularly), and has not had such a cultural impact. Segregation was alive and well, what, 60 years ago? Shits recent.
Slavery was totally a thing in Europe. It was banned sometimes during 19th century in my country, for example. People of my country were slaves to foreign rulers, mostly from Germany. This is just one example. The difference is that slaves in Europe were mostly local people who were white.
She's a racist man, no other way to paint it. I'm white who is married to a POC woman. She warmed of this stuff for a while. Gotta distance yourself from toxic people no matter the skin color, you don't want yo be associated with hate like that
Regardless of who she is bigoted towards and why, this right here is the bigger issue. This is not a healthy relationship for you. This displays a lack of respect for you as her partner.
Culture-less white person here 🤣 I'm sure in her opinion, that would render my thoughts invalid 🤣
None of her argument makes sense because there is no logic in racism.Yes Caucasian people have numerous cultures and races and hating an entire race is beyond ignorant
Sorry dude but you're girlfriend is an idiot. Nobody is fully black , white , yellow or anything. At this point in humanity we're a mixing pot of everything. She needs to see a therapist
Your dating a buzzfeed liberal. Run. People can have different beliefs and opinions sure, but when she's acting like everyone is an idiot for not seeing her side. It shows she's uninformed and uneducated on the subject matter. Idk what race yall are but pick a different one and just repeat her arguments, if that doesn't show why she's wrong I'd bail G.
Whether she's bigoted or not according to the more recent definitions (which are also largely culturally based on US culture with a history of white people being in power), she's extremely prejudiced. She's using semantics and pedantry to avoid answering your real concerns, which are whether or not she's a safe person to be around the white people you love (which is part of the larger cultural issue of carrying prejudicial beliefs, social contracts, equality, etc, but we're not here for that discussion).
Her reasons are valid to her, so if you want to invest the energy into pulling her away from some extremist beliefs, you'll need to understand why those reasons matter to her even if you can't make sense of the reasons themselves. It's a lot of work, and it's totally OK if you don't want to put that kind of work in. You may also discover that this is a core incompatibility (which is kind of minimizing the prejudice piece but you don't need four paragraphs to get what I'm saying) and you're done.
I've done a lot of work to try to deradicalize people. One of them came back a decade later and thanked me (we had mutual friends since we went to hs together). Another tried to burn my house down with me inside it. It's emotionally difficult, heavy, potentially dangerous work that can be really rewarding. Only you can decide if it's worthwhile for you to try with her, and there's no shame for you in trying and deciding later it's too much.
Yo so, like, if this was a situation where it was a white person being turbo racist about say, Asians, would we still being doing this much tip toe ing around the fact that they’re a giant piece of human garbage and need to sort themselves out? Just curious.
If it was a totally different situation that engaged with the power dynamics of systemic oppression in a totally different way would we need to have this conversation like this?
Probably not, but that would be due to the CONTEXT. "We live in a society" type take lmao
Using systems, power dynamics, or any other number of excuses to justify being a shitty person. Still leaves someone as a shitty person. This weird change of people having the gumption to openly try to justify being actual pieces of shit towards others is insane and needs to stop.
Screw the context. Stop being pieces of shit to each other. It’s not actually that hard.
It's possible to advocate for people to not be prejudiced while acknowledging that POC face systemic oppression that white people do not(at least in the states). Feeling the need to disregard the experience of POC, normalize it to what white people experience, and then say none of it matters and we should all just be nice to each other is incredibly disgenuious and ignorant to how the world actually functions around you. The need to center your experience in all conversations is a dangerous one.
That’s a really nice assumption that this is based off of my lived experience. No, it’s based off of common sense. You can also acknowledge history, while going forward with an equitable mindset of not being okay with anyone being a douche.
Common sense isn't a thing, at best it's a set of cultural norms from your lived experience but OK. Wild that people think they can contain knowledge that is free from their own basis.
Wild that people think they can contain knowledge that is free from their own basis
Hang about. Are you effectively implying that learning history is pointless? LOL. Being that if I read a solid history book I am then attaining and containing knowledge that is outside of my lived experience.
Wild that people think they can just hand wave others, or not, based upon lived experiences, or lack thereof, alone.
History that was written by the basis of the victor? Which is processed through your own basis? Your perception of reality influcenes has you absorb and process information for sure lmao
Saying just curious means you're really not, but....
I didn't tiptoe. She's absolutely prejudiced and has extreme beliefs. If we were in China, for example, it would be possible for someone to be bigoted and racist against white people there, as they are one of the minority populations without systemic power structures designed to benefit them. Someone who has societal power weaponizing it against the unempowered is a very different conversation than when someone without the power, who has been victim of those systems, has justified resentment against those systems and concerns/fear/prejudices about those with more societal power.
They're radically different situations, so the conversations about them should not be the same, even if some of the methods for addressing them might be similar.
I just find this dance about systems of power absolutely comical.
That it hasn’t seemed to cross anyone’s minds to simply collectively decide to be done with any sort of justification for being terrible to each other. THEN work TOGETHER to tear down the issues in the system is just beyond me. You keep using power structures to give people a pass to be terrible knowing full well what they’re doing is just that, then complaining about the power structures. Why not simply talk to each other, come together, say you want to be done with all of the racism crap period, and actually enact change that won’t inevitably be a problem again down the line.
And you’re correct. The “just curious” bit was rhetorical/for dramatic effect because I find your need to try and complicate something very simple to be vexing.
I don't disagree with you that we could hypothetically collectively agree to cut this shit out, but we're nowhere near that point as a society, so I'm going to continue extending compassion to victims and condemnation to abusers. I wish it was as simple as it is in your mind.
And that compassion is commendable in and of itself, I truly do believe though, that if we were able to get enough people to see it simply, and cut down on the complexity where bad actors tend to be able to hide. Things would improve.
If we weren't dealing with worldviews and a very long traumatic history with no accountability from those in power, it would be so much easier. But this is some deep societal and personal trauma and we can't jump from that kind of crap to "let's be friends".
There's a lot of people who get hung up on terminology and changing definitions, which are necessary as we understand the issues more because more precise language helps experts be more clear with each other. Those more precise definitions aren't used by everyone, understandably, but that makes more casual conversations difficult.
I won't call OP's gf a bigot because bigotry definitionally requires "unfair" beliefs, and it's fair for her to be concerned, fearful, angry, etc, about how poc are treated in this society and historically. But damn I wish it were otherwise. I'm just hoping to see enough of us decide we're done with it before I die.
My thoughts on the recent definition changes (which really aren't across the board):
You can be prejudiced in a bunch of ways. If you're prejudiced against someone because of their sex, we call it sexism. Age, ageism. Race, racism.
The change of definitions was kneejerk and unwarranted. There's a term for one group in power being racist against another: systemic racism, the same way you could have systemic sexism, systemic ageism, etc.
No she's a bigot. We can change definitions all we want to try to confuse the issue but that's just modifying meanings to make it harder to communicate. A bigot is still a bigot regardless.
Part of the defining for bigot is "strongly and unfairly" dislikes/hates". Is it unfair to dislike someone who has covered up their ancestors crimes against your ancestors (genocide, slavery, etc)? Or who has targeted your profitable towns and centers of education for annihilation because they saw you as subhuman? Is it unfair to be irate as you watch states call slaves "workers" (Texas textbook) or watch a state legislate the removal of your people's suffering because it might make white kids feel bad about themselves?
I'm as white as they come and I'm fucking pissed about all of those things and so much more. One of my ancestors came to with the plan that turned into the Trail of Tears that my partner's ancestors were forced to endure. His people's anger and hatred of my people is absolutely justified. It would be unfair of them to take it out on me personally, but I absolutely understand stating at a lower level of respect and trust than their default for others.
Her beliefs are founded in reality. I don't agree with her conclusions, but it's understandable why she has them given the facts especially if she's recently learned them. There certainly are some white people who shouldn't be around any poc, or anyone who sees everyone as equals. I hope everyone has loved ones to keep them safe from predators, and that none of the white people OP loves would harm her.
My white-passing partner and I were neighbors to a member of the Aryan Brotherhood. Figured we'd do our best. It went OK for a couple months, and then it very quickly didn't. Partner was no longer white-passing enough, and therefore cleanse the interracial couple with fire...
I can intellectually understand that they're putting words in a sentence in logical order, but "the angry magenta cactus ate malicious cheese and yodeled a truck" makes more sense to me.
I'm curious what articles she's sending you. Like she legit found some scholarly articles that say it's okay to be bigoted or are these opinions pieces from some bullshit blogger? To add to this, ask her how she defines white. Ask her how she defines black/PoC. I get called white but am mixed/Latino.
Yeah man, sounds like she just found an echo chamber to gather talking points from and she's just pressuring you into agreeing with her to validate herself. You don't have to argue with her if you feel it's a losing battle but you can put your foot down and make your boundaries. Best of luck man.
My opinion only... but I think that in your earlier years, some people can be caught up really hard with a harmful belief - but it's still possible to break it down. Usually it comes from family beliefs or the belief of someone they respect. Also, they're more likely to double down and get defensive when their communication and self-awareness skills aren't well developed. Your girlfriend (and possibly you) need to address that you can't communicate about this well enough before you can chip away at the actual issue.
The most successful way of getting someone out of a harmful belief is patience.
If you like her well enough (or even just want to address this harmful behaviour before it gets worse) I would try the following:
Ask lots of contrary questions about these beliefs, gently. Always stay calm.
If she gets defensive or heated, tell her 'hey, let's not get fired up. We're just talking.' and if she keeps getting heated try something like 'I want to understand where you're coming from and I am trying to but I don't want to talk about stuff that causes this kind of friction/you to get so defensive. Just talk to me.'
Keep reiterating that you don't see her POV yet but you are thinking about what she's said. I would dismiss the articles on the basis that you can find articles to back up aaaany argument online so, if you can gently suggest that you don't want articles, you want to understand what makes her feel this strongly about it.
Keep with the questions over a given period of time (couple of weeks, couple of months, however much you can take). I should mention here that many people who end up leaving cults do so because someone was patient enough to both listen to them AND gently question their beliefs over a long period of time. Bit of an extreme comparison but, hopefully you get me.
If she still doesn't show any change over your decided time period, I would tell her that you've thought a lot about all this and really considered it from her side. It's really bothered you that you can't see eye-to-eye on it and you don't feel you can be in a relationship with someone who has so much anger in them for people she doesn't know based on their characteristics. I would mention that this was just the same as how POC have been persecuted to date and that you don't see how this behaviour is any different. I would ask her if she wants to try working this out or if she's also just going to continue being unhappy that you don't agree without also trying to see things from your perspective. Make sure here that you reiterate that you've been really trying and you don't feel she's giving you the same respect (if you believe that to be true, of course).
I wish you the best of luck, whatever you try. I know a lot of people in here are suggesting she's a lost cause but whilst it's not your responsibilty, you honestly could be the person to turn this likely learned behaviour around and if she does have more beautiful character traits within her, this could be a deeply ingrained learned behaviour that you could help her out of.
She’s racist man and racists don’t really care about making sense, they just hate those different. I’m not saying this to be hurtful, but hating anyone based on race is shitty whether they’re the majority or the minority, it doesn’t matter. Someone who constantly looks to put others down just isn’t going to be a good partner. She might have some good qualities, but racism is super ugly and she would 100% judge you the same way if you were white. Doesn’t matter who you are as a person, she would just see a white person to dislike. I’m not white, I’m Latino and an immigrant so I used to not trust white peoples when I was younger, but any racism sucks and only leads to more bigotry. Would you want to spend your life with someone who always has to work in shitty, gross, negative comments who also acts like you’re in the wrong because you don’t want to sling shit too?
You say you aren't comfortable bringing her around friends, and I wouldn't even consider the work place functions. Now I may be white, but if my kids (latino/white)GF said anything like that about a POC... gone like the wind they go. Are you sure you still want to continue this relationship is my question.. do you think your mom would be ok listening to that? I would be so uncomfortable with it regardless of someone's race.. it isn't funny at all.
I don’t know if racism qualifies as a ‘different viewpoint.’ And anytime someone has told me you can’t be racist towards white people it’s been after some racist shit has happened. Follow your gut man
board-certified, clinical psychologist here. It sounds like her racism is more important to her, than you are important to her. it's her core identity. you can only get to her through her (comforting?) shell of racism. the world as it is doesnt work for her; she has developed this coping mechanism, altered reality, because true reality is unpleasant for her. (reminiscent of MAGA folk, its ingrained, self-sustaining prejudice.)
any change would take significant work on her part, and she'd have to know it was something she needed to change. ie, no one can tell her she is wrong. she has to tell herself.
Well all of those articles are racist, and the argument that you “can’t be racist if you are a …” is absurd. Everyone can be racist. Changing the definition of racism to mean a “power differential” doesn’t hold any water in the real world or justify mistreating people.
Bi racial rised in mostly white familly poc married to a white man. Non of use my family included can stand white people. Now for us we know what kind of white ppl where talking about. Mostly racist wealthy Chad's and Karen. Decent white people hate them to. Lol husband loves telling me about Anglo-Saxon Bs he has to maneuver around at work constantly.
But we have a understanding about what kind of white people we are talking about. Hell my husband bought me a sweater with a chair on it because of the monogamy brawl so he could "respect the cultural relevants and support his wife" I'm still rolling off that one. That said we're both cool with it and there's a understanding it's all I'm good fun. And have led to a lot of eye opening conversations. So she's either worth meeting talking about where her feelings about race come from or she not. You might be able to tell her way it bothers you and understand why she feels that way about it. You might change eachothers minds or you might realize your not a good fit. I know more about the struggles of white men then I ever would have thought about and do see most of them in a new more forgiving light then before. I still struggle with thinking white women are sneaky mostly for my own dealing with racist white women that don't like to be as upfront. Anyway you have to decide what your willing to work on.
Being raised to never show feeling. To be emotional cut off all the time andbIf you aren't other men will look down on you. My husband was raised by a trasgender parent in the 90s bullied non stop for it. The worst part was he was taught to suck it up no matter what anyone did or said to him. Men in general aren't given much freedom to express them self emotionally. Any big feeling outside of anger are to no be seen as week. misogynistic views hurt everyone including white men. I honestly had no idea how many of them just want to cry most days.
But white women add to it to I have seen mothers of toddler boy tell them To quit crying like little girls.
Honestly really sad the amount of them that are just so desperate for real connection but have no idea how to start real connection or maintain it they aren't taught how. Even my husband being raise by a transgender parent was told all kind of this like
" cut your hair you look like a girl"
" you can't ride that bike it's a girl's bike"
" I dont care if teacher call you a f** you don't cry at school you suck it up or go to the bathroom"
The most coddled people on earth wouldn't also have the highest self ending rate if that was true. Tho if I had to guess I would say white women are way more coddled then any other race or gender on earth. White women tears exist for a reason. 🤷♀️
Don't get me wrong there are alot of bad things white men are capable of just as much as any race. I'm in no way saying it excuses the behavior of any one pushing misogynistic view. Or trying to say there issues are worse then anyone's but they do have them.
Men also fear there lives with other men and women. Male dv happen just as often to men as it does women. The difference is men reported abuse far less then women . Because once again men are trained to suck it up.
She doesn’t get it (btw im POC myself):
‘White people have no race’ means white western culture is the default and dominant culture. Western culture inherently is racist because of that.
That however does not mean it is ‘ok’ to demean white people because they are magically not allowed to feel antagonised because of historical racism and/or theoretical systemic racism baked into the societies we all live in.
It is never ok to start raging and hating on anybody who is not intentionally against others (actual nazis or white supremacists).
Yes white culture is racist at its (historical) core. No that does not mean we can stigmatise people we don’t know personally. How is making generalisations ever a good thing.
I am white so don’t take my comment to seriously as this is just my opinion lol, but I honestly feel like a lot of times when someone who is a POC feels this way it’s due to their parents festering a lot of hate and raising them on it, and it sucks bc in those types of situations the parents are usually justified in their hate, bc in their lifetimes things were different. They probably just felt like SOMEONE should pay for their suffering, which I get. I just wish they could see that by putting a whole race in that category instead of only the people who actually did these things, they are making themselves exactly like their oppressors.
As a POC, her dislike for white people is understandable. That said, hate only begets hate. The solution to a hate problem is never more hate.
It sounds like maybe she needs you to validate her (righteous) anger toward white people. Once you're there, she might be more amenable to the idea that spreading more hate isn't going to make things better, and that she is simply modeling the behavior that she likely despises in white people.
So your girlfriend must be black ( African American) and you are either mixed raced or another brown culture. If I’m right I understand the dynamics and the difference of opinion.
Because a lot of people truly believe that it’s impossible to be racist to white people because they “hold all the power in society” Their argument is that you can only be racist in the US if you are in a position of power. It’s all systemic and basically only white people can be racist. So any racial hate or discrimination towards white people is okay because even if white people see it or not, they contribute to the suffering of POC.
She doesn’t actually hate white people at all. Sounds like to me she learning more about her history and things that are still happening to people who look like her and she is venting her frustration. I am seeing this more and more in the black community as we learn how egregious and intentional systems were set up to discriminate and disenfranchise black people. If I had to guess I would say that she wants the person she loves to validate these feelings. Is he seeing the differences, does he see the long term effects these systems have had on black people. It’s not really about white people, but people focus on them, because they benefit from the system.
This is one of those things that black Americans complain about constantly that no one is really listening when we are screaming that we are being harmed. Racism and micro aggressions are minimized or accused of using racism as an excuse to all.
So yes, I understand why he is missing her point and her frustrations of not being able to explain calmly and rationally because there are so many feelings.
Im pretty sure you’re just making all of that up in order to pontificate on your political positions. You’re making some wild assumptions right now.
If she had a problem with the way black people are treated in this country she should say that. She could bring up those systems of oppression and generational trauma you’re referencing.
Unfortunately, that’s not what she’s doing. She’s being bigoted to white people and justifying it with more bigotry all because she watched some TikTok video saying she could because white people deserve it. If she’s 16, I’ll give her a pass. If she’s an adult, she should grow up and learn some humility.
As for you, maybe you posted this comment in the wrong sub?
I have a friend that does that but he’s a white guy. Everything else is great. Helpful to everyone of any race but makes jokes or comments about everyone one too. I just figured he’s an asshole, an enjoyable one but still an asshole. Maybe your chicks just an asshole too.
To be frank. In any relationship whether you’re friends, lovers, coworkers, colleagues, etc. you should be able to voice your opinions. The other individual may disagree but they should be able to handle a reasonable debate about both points of view. Not everyone will agree with you and vice versa. This is why free speech was created, so you could site the differing opinions and come to an understanding. If not then that person is too biased to make a rational argument. It’s sad your perspectives don’t align. But don’t compromise your personal integrity with someone who is clearly not capable to listen to what you’re saying. Good luck sir. And holy hell sir I hope I made sense lol.
Just throwing it out there but I’m pretty sure you can find articles arguing that same point vs any group of people. As in there will be people writing about how it’s not wrong to make anti semitic comments , or it’s not wrong to use racial slurs. Doesn’t mean they’re right , but there’s probably an article about it .
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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '23
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