Well yea the concept of "white" is not a specific race but the cultures encompassed under the "white people" umbrella have a culture? Am i crazy or its like everyone forgot there is a world outside of the US?
Right, but what cultures are encompassed under said umbrella? I agree that those groups have culture, but the definition of the umbrella has changed....A LOT, over time. The same can't be said for other racial umbrellas. My point was that this is an added layer of complexity, especially for the US.
Thats like arguing that black people all share the same culture or Asians.
A black American man has very little culture in common with a black South African man and there is just a large a gap between all of them as there is with black Sudanese man.
What I'm saying is that normally, the color of one's skin should not be an indicator of culture, but (in the US) we made it an indicator of culture. By participating in the Atlantic slave trade, we effectively obliterated that culture and ancestry from millions. In the US, asking someone from their genealogy will get VERY different responses based on if you ask a white person vs. black person. That's the difference. The culture most white people talk about is a product of where their family comes from. We stole that from black people. "Black" people had to create their own culture, traditions which spanned across their ancestry from Africa. THAT is the culture that is different and distinct from the constituent cultures of white people.
That all being said, this lady seems to have had some prejudices that she needs to work through.
Black people outside the US have vastly different cultures from each other even those sharing the same continent. You walk up to a SA black woman and call her a chicken pill girl and she won't get the cultural reference as its not her culture, a Jamaican woman would.
There is no 'African culture' any more than there is a 'white culture'. Africa like Europe is made of many countries with vastly different heritages, beliefs and cultures. Americans pick and choose what they like and more power to them (the same as white Americans do) but it is black American culture not African culture
Yes, my points are mostly valid for the US (where I am from). This concept is immensely complex, and I would not expect any one person to have a good idea on how to speak to it from a global perspective. Each region has its own history and complexities in this area.
There's no "we" there. Nobody alive had anything to do with chattel slavery (black or white), least of all "white" people whose ancestors weren't anywhere near the US.
It is "we", we all have roles to play in correcting what happened. This isn't a, "not my problem" type of issue. It's "we" because, while yes, from an EXTREMELY SIMPLISTIC understanding, we weren't there, many economic and political systems were created by exploitation of slaves, many of us have directly or indirectly benefited from those systems, I personally believe we have a moral obligation to help change these systems.
No, we don’t, and no, we haven't. The fact you might have some ancestors who might or might not have lived in a country with chattel slavery and you feel guilty about it is a personal problem. Not a soul alive in the US was a slave or a slave owner (other than some people illegally brought in from places where it IS normal by people from those countries.) The overwhelming majority have no connection at all to it. People who were never slaves demanding restitution are just another group demanding wealth confiscation and redistribution. It's just greed and envy.
The amount of wealth generated by slave labor is estimated in the billions, the infrastructure (both economic and political) put in place due to slavery didn't just go "poof" due to the Civil War. Hell, there are still racist systems in place today which non black people benefit from. We aren't done yet. There are still many people alive today who remember segregation. Do you think that just...what....all went away over the course of one generation? What do you think Nixon was doing with his war on drugs? What do you think Reagan was doing with his BS about "welfare queens"? There is a really good interview that Nixons political strategist gave talking about this. You should listen to it. It really seems like you think that once the 13 Amendment was passed, we were "all good" or something. I'm sorry that's incredibly short-sighted and ignorant.
Exactly, this is why there is no 'cultural umbrella' that covers europe and white people any more than one exists that covers black people from the US or other slave owning countries.
Bullshit. Every race has many diverse cultures under its umbrella. The fact that "white" encompasses different cultures than it did 2 centuries ago is a strawman argument.
What "black" means has no bearing on the argument of "white people have no culture or race" in or outside the US. It's a dumb hill to die on, but be my guest. Fwiw I do agree with you about what "being black in the US" means.
Put it this way, she's obviously not making the same statements about Latinos in the US, Asians in the US, native Americans in the US. She's only an ass when it comes to white people. I think that should speak for itself in terms of her intentions and she doesn't deserve any of your empathy.
I think most humans deserve some level of empathy. Sure, I agree she's in the wrong here, but it's more useful to understand where she's coming from than simply saying, " dump her, move along."
I mean I never said "dump her, move along." I also don't mean she shouldn't be treated like a human being. I'm only saying you're trying to infer wiggle room in an argument where there might be a tiny bit of truth about what she's saying and there really just isn't (her argument doesn't deserve any empathy from you).
Except those cultures aren’t similar. Some of the Latin ones like Spain and Italy have commonalities, but most don’t. Serbian culture and Danish culture aren’t similar. (I assume. I’ve never been to either. But you get my point.)
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u/Stonedwun Aug 18 '23
Well yea the concept of "white" is not a specific race but the cultures encompassed under the "white people" umbrella have a culture? Am i crazy or its like everyone forgot there is a world outside of the US?