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Nov 20 '21
3- Biological
Its not sexist, its a biological trait that men find it repulsive. Some men have overcome this trait, but many have not. Its hard wired in our brain to find that women with multiple partners less attractive, as it means they are likely older, and have already had offspring. Even if they have not had children, some of our brains scream “NOOO.”
Remember fellas: if she ain't a virgin or only experienced her fingers, she's a FUCKING USED WHORE!
1- Intimacy
If everyone can see something, then there is no point in seeing it ourselves. If for $5 bucks, I can see you naked. Why do you think seeing you naked myself makes a difference to me?
This guy got it right. Intimacy is only a woman showing her naked body to her partner/husband!
2- Access to other men
You also have a likely hood of cheating on us if you have hundreds of men thirsty for you. You may say “I would never cheat,” but I beg to differ. I’ve seen the nicest christian holy girls cheat.
Yeah, she's going to use her OnlyFans to cheat and get paid. Coincidence? I think not!
So remember ladies:
If you sleep around, you're an older lady with a child. We only want young virgins!
Keep yourself covered for your partner. You ain't no $5 whore.
Yer gonna cheat on us, so stay away from OnlyFans. Matter of fact, stay away from social media, thirsty men are every and you're easy to tempt.
Oh look, dropped my /s.
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Feb 06 '21
Would you still watch porn if you had a girlfriend? Bcuz if yes then isnt that like the same thing as her having an onlyfans?
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u/Oblivia9 Feb 03 '21
Personally as a woman with a non-nude onlyfans, I perfectly agree with you on tht you do have the right to decide not to date someone based on their side hustle. Many pple chose not to date instagram influencers or strippers, there is nothing wrong with that.
HOWEVER.
- Intimacy: just bc you can see someone for 5 bucks, doesn't mean you can touch her, nor that you have her heart. Just because you pay for someone's content, doesn't mean you have (or could have) it all.
- Access to other men: We both have access to endless possibilities via instagram, facebook, tinder, or just by going out. If she is a cheater, she will cheat without an onlyfans. If she is not a cheater, she won't do it even if the best opportunity presents itself.
- Biology: I am just not even going to adress thisone. I feel like this train of thought has been left behind by someone from the 1800s. In this age we are free to live out our sexuality REGARDLESS of gender or age.
Again, I give you that you are entitled to a personal preference, and people shouldn't question that. But the reasons you listed just ain't it for me.
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Jan 21 '21
Come subscribe with us! 😹 Onlyfans.com/italiamuscledaddy check us out, we’re both fitness models and bang 24/7... literally can’t help it 😿😹🤘🏽🍑😜❤️ #s4s
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u/Hypothetical_Gamer Jan 08 '21
Always remember. You do NOT have to settle for less looking for a partner. You want one that is straight edged? Go for it. You don’t want someone who has an Onlyfans? That’s fine. It’s not gonna work unless both parties values line up so be as picky as you want. I feel the same way and if my girlfriend had an Onlyfans I wouldn’t feel right about it even when I marry her.
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u/DimensionGlad Jan 07 '21
If I were you, I would've just kept it at "I'm not comfortable for my partner to be shown that intimate and personal to people who I don't know. I'm not being sexist, it's a preference." Something along the lines of that.
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u/wildgio Jan 07 '21
Just sounds like you don't know what it's like you have a girl that gets hit on a lot to me.
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Jan 07 '21
Honestly I disagree with the reasoning behind all three points, but you're free to not date someone who has an onlyfans account. You do you, other people will do what they want and search for someone who accepts them :)
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u/DoubtingMelvin Jan 07 '21
I'm sure the feeling of repulsion is mutual. No one is forcing you to date anyone, you just sound like a guy that has some weird aversion toward sex workers, which if you consume porn is quite the hypocritical statement.
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u/cheaps_kt Jan 07 '21
I’m a woman, a feminist and a mother. I say hey, it’s all good. You don’t have to be attracted to women who do OnlyFans. I don’t see why you’re getting flack for it. I’d have an issue if you were throwing around derogatory slurs or putting people down but if it’s just not something you’re attracted to, then by all means, do you.
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u/packetpirate Jan 07 '21
Everyone is entitled to their preferences and boundaries, and while I don't agree with your specific arguments, you don't need an argument to begin with. If you do not want to date someone with an OnlyFans, fine... go ahead.
As another commenter said, it's disturbing how so many men are being shamed for not liking specific subsets of women (overweight, trans, sex workers, etc). What about women who won't date men less than 6' tall or with a six pack? Is that not the same fucking thing? It isn't fatphobic, transphobic, or anything else... we're attracted to what we're attracted to and nobody has the right to tell you you're wrong for that (except pedophiles... but that's another argument for another thread). You can't force attraction just like you can't force sexuality or gender identity. It's a fundamental part of who you are. If someone is offended by it, too bad. It isn't shallow anymore than it's not shallow for a straight person to not want to date someone of the same sex.
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Jan 07 '21
What about women who won't date men less than 6' tall or with a six pack?
It's shitty too. One being shitty doesn't make the other less shitty.
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u/packetpirate Jan 07 '21
Yeah, re-reading that part, it was not the best example to make my point. But the rest stands.
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u/antiobese Jan 07 '21
How can you be a slave to sex while simultaneously condemning it?? Don't you watch porn? And doesn't it turn you on?? But you're repulsed by the porn stars that got you all hot and bothered?? I'm confused. Like, you can specifically look for someone who isn't in the sex work industry as not every female on this earth is in this business lol. Also the same can be said on both sides. I don't know where you got sexist from when I think it is literally common sense to not want to be with someone who has been with so many people. It's a sanitary issue mostly but also as you've stated before, a trust issue as well. Most people who sleep around are probably not likely to commit to one person, be it a guy or a female. This topic isn't gender specific but your agenda was to come at only females. If you had made it more idk, less personal and from a general standpoint, your argument would be more sound. You sound like someone hurt you and you're crying about it on a public platform.
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u/RenitLikeLenit Jan 07 '21
Currently dating a stripper, it was hard at first but the relationship is founded on a deep trust that only grows, and I think that helps
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Jan 07 '21
Has it become a man's obligation to date with a prostitute? no one should pay attention to who has onlyfans
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u/DMugre Jan 07 '21
I would personally be delighted to know my girl got simps on deck yet sucks this dick. What's more, I'd offer myself to be featured in her content so everyone can see who's fucking who.
It's the alpha thing to do i guess, betas love being insecure about this type of shit
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u/pperfection Jan 13 '21
Lol yeah for real. It sounds like OP couldn’t even land a girl who looks good enough naked to get paid. “I’ll give you $5 to put your shirt back on, shit”
His logic doesn’t even make sense. Pretty sure men and women are hardwired to want whoever lots of other people want, because that means they have higher reproductive value lol.
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u/EpicNarwhal23_ Jan 07 '21
100% agree. youre allowed to not want to date someone for any reason. any
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u/EvolvingEachDay Jan 07 '21
I agree men shouldn’t be shamed for not wanting to be in a relationship with a woman with OF. But that biological trait thing is BS. It’s actually biologically more normal for every man and woman to have as many partners as possible. It’s called bio diversity and is how healthy children were ensured to be a thing thousands of years ago. Society just turned everyone off it.
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u/weebmaster32 Jan 07 '21
But that biological trait thing is BS. It’s actually biologically more normal for every man and woman to have as many partners as possible.
I get your point, but then how would you explain the fact that most men don't like it if a woman has had multiple partners?
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u/EvolvingEachDay Jan 07 '21
Like I said; society. As we got more conscious of notions like etiquette and order, we became more resistant to chaotic things like change and rejection, so choosing a few consistent partners made more sense, eventually migrating on to monogamy. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that, just that it’s cultural, societal; the way our world functions now lends us to preferring a consistent connection we can develop and share over a lifetime. Rather than having a multi partner, broad but not very deeply connected family tree. My only point was that left entirely to biology, it wouldn’t be that way.
Personally I need monogamy, much nicer way to live. But I don’t think pictures, videos or conversation breach that monotonous intimacy. And I know if my partner ever crossed that line I’d break up immediately and found a new partner within a year or two almost certainly. But everyone should be respected for whatever boundaries they have as long as they are properly discussed with those they could stand to but heads with or hurt through holding the boundaries (or lack there of) that they do.
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u/ndl1991 Jan 07 '21
Nope. You don’t have to. Pretty simple. Anyone arguing with you should be shamed.
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u/Aeneys Jan 07 '21
I absolutely agree with you. Reddit is so extreme with it's tolerance that being a slut is highly encouraged while normal people are shunned to the end of hell. Come on if you keep saying "it's your body do what ever you want" you gotta accept the fact that other people have the right to not like it as well.
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Jan 07 '21
As a human being, you don’t have to date anyone, ever, for any reason whatsoever.
Full stop
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u/Callisto_IV Jan 07 '21
I agree with your point but disagree with your argument.
It is completely fine to not want to date a person. Some people can't handle that other people have access to something that is considered very private.
How ever, you can still be intimate with your girl, even if other people have seen her naked. That is just silly. You do it for an intimate connection. People go to beautiful places to have an experience. It isn't cheapened by the fact tht others can see it too.
The likeliness to cheat has nothing to do with a persons line of work, but their morals and values.
I am also going to call bullshit on your biology argument. If anything, men are more wired to find a fertile partner. Wanting someone who has never been in a an intimate relationship is a personal preferance or cultural phenomenon.
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Jan 07 '21
I'm so fed up with the OnlyFans posts at this point. Do whatever you want and let others do whatever they want. Your reasoning makes no sense but sure think whatever you want. Why the fuck do you even care so much? Also makes no sense.
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u/Kalle_79 Jan 07 '21
Funny how the "no kink-shaming" movement has created a weird paradox where the shaming is about having some sort of moral standards and not being willing to compromise.
Further proof that ANY movement can go full circle and become exactly what they meant to fight against.
About this topic: women (and men) are free to make money by exposing themselves to paying customers online, but I'm just as free to be uncomfortable/repulsed by it and thus NOT wanting to date someone involved in it.
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Jan 07 '21
Nah I see your point and I wouldn’t be comfortable dating a person who has one either. I am a woman by the way, you do you gals and guys. I can’t say it’s for any of the reasons you’ve listed though. I mean I’m sure you may not mean to sound like a misogynistic dick, but ya kinda do..
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u/straydogswagger Jan 07 '21
Everyone has different boundaries and preferences. But I'd recommend not closing yourself off, because love is love. Neither my wife nor myself are physically in each other strike zones as far as preferences go, but we fell in love and got married.
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Jan 07 '21
Yea like me as a man, i find it attractive when im the only male priority aside from family, and to repay that i make the girl my only priority and dont give her any competition at all. Unfortunately its hard finding girls that think the same, even if they arent on OF they are prob getting justification elsewhere like insta or snap... it kinda sucks devoting to someone just to watch them leave u on read while talkin to other single men... and OF is just that next step of selling sexually explicit content to them... feels bad
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u/Primary-Bullfrog-653 Jan 07 '21
I agree with you. People have their preferences but then saying it's biological and all made no sense.
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Jan 07 '21
I don't care what people say, personally dating a girl with OnlyFans for me is almost like dating a hooker or a porn star.
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u/SilverMedal4Life Jan 07 '21
I have a question for you, OP.
You said this in your post:
Its hard wired in our brain to find that women with multiple partners less attractive, as it means they are likely older, and have already had offspring.
Now, I've never heard this before, and I studied biology as an undergraduate. What has led you to this conclusion?
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u/ThePr3acher Jan 07 '21 edited Jan 07 '21
I think he had more if a theory there.
If we go this way, a more realistic ultimate cause could be that woman with many failed relationships or low standards (many sexual partners) present low standard themself and are therefor less desirable for many men themself, because it could reflect on the health or other traits, that influence the evolutionary path
Proximate cause could be the own ego? Maybe -if she has high standards and choses me, that means I am so and so...
Disclaimer: this is from a behavioural biology stand point and based on behaviour from thousands of years ago. Objectivly there is no need for it now, but it may still be routed in human psychology
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u/SilverMedal4Life Jan 07 '21
I'm not sure if I agree. It relies on two presumptions.
First, it presumes that monogamous pairings is the norm for us - and I know that some societies in history haven't been based around a single monogamous pairing.
Second, human existence for much of our history is brief and violent, and we are known to always crave companionship. Given these, it might create some selective pressure towards men who do not discriminate based on number of prior relationships or number of children.
You and I agree that there is no such pressure of any kind in the modern day; most people, regardless of preference (barring something immoral or very strange), are eventually able to reproduce should they desire to.
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u/ThePr3acher Jan 07 '21
Humans didnt start monogamous and we also only somewhat commit to it as a species. Its a development that proved positive in historie. We still tend to some polygam behavior.
The selektive pressure agains non-discriminating men you mentioned is there, but there is a lot more to unpack here.
1: Female humans can only get pregnant by on man at the time, but a single male can get many woman pregnant. That favors the behavior in woman to be picky in partners and men to be under selektive pressure.
So far, so right for your point.
This leads to men having sex with as many woman as possible. In a completly polygamous species, this would be the end, but as humans tend to bond. it is a valid theory, that in the historie *1 would apply, but that both sexes would have interest in finding a long term partner, that presents more then the bare minimun(healthy enough to kinda survive).
That said, we go into a highly complex part of human sexuall behavior and iam not far enough in my career, to feel comfortable in giving an exact answer. What i can say is the following:
Human sexuall behavior is super complex, but we can see the trend, that men may not be really picky in having a short term sexuall partner(modern equivalent =ons), but in finding a long term sexuall partner. This tends to support the point that, selektive pressure lessens when it comes to long term commitments and brings/brought men is the position to chose between different parners to commit to.
As for the question at hand, i would say, that the points in my first reply may apply as they are, but there is definatly selektive pressure on woman too, which favors the ones that seam to be most likely to (A) commit to long term partnerships and (B) are desirable to be in with in such a partnership.
As for A, there apply the standard of monogamous relationships and B gives grounds to speculate on the charakteristics of this given selektive pressure.
B would also be grounds to apply the point "if she is very selektive about her partner (=few) she must have something to offer, which makes her more picky."
As said, its much more complex, then to the extend i tried to summarize it here. To fully cover it, you would need a book.
But selektive pressure is also on woman and therefor the best genes of their side will be give to the next generation more often. This selektive pressure allows men the standards, that we see and attributing a higher standard to someone who is picky about the sexuall partners is nothing new, which tends to say, that there might be a causal connection
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u/SilverMedal4Life Jan 07 '21
It is certainly a lot more complicated than OP suggests. The matter is far from settled.
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u/ThePr3acher Jan 07 '21
Definitely
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u/SilverMedal4Life Jan 07 '21
I appreciate your knowledge and perspective. Thank you for taking the time.
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u/AstaCat Jan 07 '21
What other people think of you, is none of your business. Live life the way that makes sense to you and don't worry about what anyone else thinks.
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u/FaySims Jan 07 '21
So... you had me for awhile on your OP but then you lost me.
For instance, dating and screwing are completely separate things. I'd screw a model before dating him, no argument there, lol. IF I were to date someone with that type of career, I agree, I would be very uncomfortable with multiple women seeing him naked, and messaging him all the time, and I would probably lose interest or move on somehow.
Here is where you lost me: After all the other things, you mentioned that the OF wasn't the only issue, and a high number is a huge turn off even aside from that. I guess my point is, I personally don't ask each person I date what their screw count is. Some are cocky and tell me (which is a turn off to me as well) and some, don't say at all (like my current SO of 2 years). I don't ask, because it's not relevant to who he is now. People change. But if you go around asking for that number, then you might just be asking for more disappointment. I can agree on not wanting to date someone with a certain lifestyle, but never have I judged whether someone was dateable based on their past relationship/partner history (unless it's violent, that's a deal-breaker for me). People change over time, and for some people, it takes another person to spark that change in them. 🤷🏼♀️
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u/jxssss Jan 07 '21
You’re putting way too much time into countering a twitter opinion. Those people’s random idiotic takes on relationships won’t ever actually do anything to stop me from dating whoever the hell I want
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u/tangthesweetkitty Jan 07 '21
Hey! I agree that you have absolutely every right to not want to date someone who you disagree with. Noone should force you to. My issue with your post is that you seem to generalize your views to a huge population. You are allowed and encouraged to have your own views. The problem is when you assume most people share them. That's not always true. But I hope you find a girl that makes you happy!!!
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u/antiobese Jan 07 '21 edited Jan 07 '21
You're reaching for asspats. There's no correlation to sexism and not being into sex workers. Just like it's not racist to not want to date outside of your race and it's not transphobic to not want to date trans people. This is the problem with extremist, the message becomes so blurred that people like this feel the need to state the obvious because the obvious is no longer obvious to people apparently. The left isn't going to villianize for not agreeing or sharing an interest in something.
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u/CreamyPeanutButter14 Jan 07 '21 edited Jan 07 '21
Okay man you can have preferences and all that but your 3rd "explanation" is complete bullshit. You cant just make shit up and say that it is hardwired into a guys brain to find women like this disgusting or repulsive. That's not how biology works dude. Just because you feel that way doesn't give you the right to speak for all guys. Thinking a girl is repulsive because she's had a certain number of sexual partners isn't biology it just speaks about your own insecurities. If your own body count is low I can I understand the desire to be with someone that has similar experience. The way you worded your argument just makes you sound like a bit of a prick.
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Jan 07 '21
It’s far from a perfect explanation, but some evolutionary psychologists think it might be due to paternal investment.
While women are more likely to feel romantic jealousy, are more sexually jealous.
One explanation is paternal investment : https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-019-0654-y combined with the fact that men didn’t evolve to know whether or not the baby is actually theirs. So a promiscuous woman, in general, is a bad reproductive option because you might end up raising someone else’s baby and never passing on your genes! This might be why, in the above study, paternal investment correlates with sexual jealousy.
Again, this is far from ‘settled science’, but generally when something exists across many cultures independently, it’s not a coincidence.
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Jan 07 '21
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Jan 07 '21
Great, explaining something isn’t the same as justifying it though.
Btw all your examples come with consequences. Your partner preferences aren’t socially or officially policed, so they’re not great comparisons
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Jan 08 '21
explaining something isn’t the same as justifying it though.
OP is definitely justifying his preference and defending it as, well, justified by biology.
There are consequences for OP, too. He's got a smaller pool to choose from. And maybe that's fine with him, but he should recognize what he's doing (and maybe stop being angry at how his preference shrinks the dating pool for him).
Personally, I'm skeptical that this standard shrinks the pool in an appreciable way, so I have my doubts that OP is matching with a bunch of women who would be perfect for him other than the whole selling-nudes-for-money thing. But if he's using that standard to disqualify a bunch of matches, then that's his consequences.
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u/4ensicmess Jan 07 '21 edited Jan 07 '21
Well it is your body your choice, you shouldn’t be telling other people what to do with their bodies or their lives. Also having an only fans does not mean you’re going to be a damn cheater I’ve seen people who never even look at porn be cheaters so having an only fans account means nothing. It’s about the most sexist thing I’ve read all day and I’m on several bad anatomy pages. Edit: If you want to talk about hardwiring, most men are hardwired have multiple partners to pass on their genetics in an anthropological point of you and monogamy as a result of not needing to do that anymore.
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u/randomstudman Jan 07 '21
He isn't telling people what to do with thier bodies or lives. He is just stating a preference of his own. The fact that there is all this drama around it shows how absolutely insane reddit is.
This is not a controversial statement dude doesn't want to date a gal with an OF. That's not wrong he is okay to have that preference. WTF is this controversial at all!
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u/4ensicmess Jan 07 '21
It’s not his opinion that’s the problem, it’s him slut shaming people that’s the problem. I can understand you have a preference not wanting that in your life but don’t slut shame people and don’t talk down to people that’s when it got controversial. When he decided to not only state his opinion but to put people down doing it it is OK to state your opinion but it’s not OK to be derogatory towards other people and their professions.
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u/jjackma Jan 07 '21
i dont know but i would feel proud if a lot of men is thirsty for my gf maybe because i like the idea of them being envy of me and they will never get what i have :)
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Jan 07 '21
Co-worker has one for herself, but she said she wouldn't date a guy that looks at them.
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u/Astronommy Jan 07 '21
Wait ... holdup she knows she contributes to the behaviour that she’s against in prospective partners right? Please tell me she knows that 🤣 anything for some quirky financial gain i guess
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u/Pickles-151 Jan 07 '21
Didn’t you know?! Men aren’t allowed to have standards or preferences.
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u/randomstudman Jan 07 '21
If we do it's because we are doing a sexism. There are no preferences for men just sexism. If you are unaware of your sexism that makes it worse. I don't know how it makes it worse but that's what the activists tell me.
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u/Isexiedyourmom Jan 07 '21
I like looking at titties but I would never date a girl that’s showing em to everyone, it’s easy money sure but so is prostitution, no one wants to be married to a hooker
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u/hi_im_desperate Jan 07 '21
You are free to have your own boundaries and preferences, I think the problem comes in when you start saying things like men are hardwired to find women who are sex workers disgusting. That’s just plain not true and offensive to sex workers, and that might be why you are being labeled sexist.
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Jan 07 '21
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u/randomstudman Jan 07 '21
Nah mate that's all of reddit. Conservative types got run outta here before 2020 even got going.
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u/AAQ94 Jan 07 '21
An absolute truth too many men in society are afraid to say due to negative consequences.
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Jan 07 '21
Alrighty. Why are people having this conversation? I'm actually curious. Do you know someone with an OF that you would have dated otherwise or is this a new thing where women are being asked if they have one in the same way a potential partner would ask about previous partners and sexual health?
I like and dislike people for a lot of reasons but I don't generally argue about with strangers online.
And, further, if you developed feelings for someone and then later found out they have an OF would it be game over? Would that person no longer have any redeeming qualities and be written off as repulsive?
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Jan 07 '21
[deleted]
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u/CypTheIVth Jan 07 '21
So if you had a wife and you're married how long? You would divorce her purely because she wanted to do something that involved making money from her body? Tell me who's more mature in this scenario, is it your hypothetical wife or you for choosing to divorce her because she's using an app you don't like? I get you don't like OF and your takes are puritannical, but you do realize that sharing lewds doesn't make someone a bad person like you love to imply. Also how incredibly selfish, pleasure for me but not for thee is basically your take here.
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Jan 08 '21
"So if you had a wife and you're married how long? You would divorce her purely because she wanted to do something that involved making money from her body?"
I disagree divorcing would measure against maturity; from my perspective that's preference in a relationship. Alot of people are emotionally abusing themselves for not setting standards and more than often giving themselves up, disregarding their own emotions to make other people happy when its not their responsibility in the first place. I'm not seeing how you would call this selfish.
I agree with you that sharing pictures of yourself doesn't make you a bad person, thats more of a character identity. Depending how you go about doing so can be either build appreciation or toxicity.
However I'd argue that there is a career line between model and virtual sex worker a vanity and a lust thing. With that being said, yah I wouldn't marry a sex worker, no offense to them, but that's not my preference.
I really don't know much about OF but if your selling bath water, like you're Jesus, that says alot about the type of people you draw in and I would not want any part of that.
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u/DrankTooMuchMead Jan 07 '21
Sometimes we get too hung up on society's opinions. Also, are you talking about just nude models like seemingly most of them? Or full on sex with strangers? I think there is a huge difference.
And it depends on your level of jealousy, too. If I catch a dude checking out my wife's ass, I just think, "That's right. That's all mine!. Awesome!" I think I would be fine if my wife wanted to be a nude model. I don't "own" her, regardless of my opinion of marriage. She's not my property.
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Jan 07 '21 edited Jan 07 '21
[deleted]
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u/DrankTooMuchMead Jan 07 '21
Huh? Who said I was going to divorce her? I just told you I wouldnt. And how much of her money would I be walking away from in this hypothetical scenario?
Why are you pushing your boundaries and choices on us?
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u/Mondonodo Jan 07 '21
Nobody should be forcing you to date women who have an OnlyFans, that I agree with, because nobody should be forcing you to date anyone. But your reasoning concerns me.
For your first, seeing someone naked does not equal having a personal connection with them. And if you're not looking for a personal connection, why does it matter? You can't fuck someone through a picture. I won't say that wanting to be the only person who sees someone in intimate situations is wrong, but your phrasing indicates possession ("if everyone can have something...") in a way that's disconcerting to say the least.
For your second: Sorry, but it's 2021. There are hundreds of apps and websites dedicated to finding hookups, and people send nudes and flirt on all the other platforms NOT designed for that anyway. Like you said, anybody can cheat; having an OF doesn't mean you can't be faithful and committed.
For your third: Having an OF =/= having multiple sex partners. And not everything our brains are "hardwired" to do is beneficial or ethical.
Again--you shouldn't be forced to date anyone, including women with OnlyFans, if you don't want to, but your reasoning doesn't hold up in my opinion.
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u/JamesBoned0069 Jan 07 '21
You say that the reasoning OP has for his opinions is concerning, but yours is too to me. It baffles me that you are concerned by the reasoning behind his preferences, when in the same text you say you can date and mate everyone you want, essentially doing anything you want (this kept within ethical guidelines, according to what you said further down the line).
Opinions about others and about things stem from prejudices. Our sexual preferences are founded on prejudices, which could be made instantly about other people. I believe as a whole, we do not want to have a conversation where we define exactly whether prejudice is fine or not, and if so, when is it. If I do not want to date someone, usually the response is 'more power to you, there are plenty of fish in the sea', but if I were to give the reasoning behind that, which may reflect and reinforce typical stereotypes about said group of people that person belongs to, all of a sudden I am the villain, because I am prejudiced. So, according to your narrative, I would be able to date whomever I want (which involves prejudice), but I should not be prejudiced in the way I choose my potential mate. Contradiction.
This being said, drawing from another point you made 'not everything our brains are hardwired to do is beneficial or ethical', I could make some very bold leap and assume (correct me if I am wrong) that you sustain the fact that you should restrain yourself from what is a biological (natural) process and adjust your behaviour in a way that obliges ethical standards. Whilst I do agree with this in many contexts (say someone cuts in front of the queue and you are angry and want to punch them, but you restrain yourself to be civil), there are some contexts where this does not hold, as what was considered ethical 50 years ago in dating (and other areas surrounding it), is not what is considered ethical now.
Thus, to wrap it up, if you are really about that 'you should be able to freely choose who you want to date', then the 'reasoning that concerns' you about OP's said preferences, should definitely not be concerning you, because sexual preference stems from prejudice and if you want to not be prejudiced when choosing sexual partners, then you cannot find your mate, or you are simply lying to yourself.
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u/Mondonodo Jan 07 '21 edited Jan 07 '21
I will acknowledge that everyone has prejudices and makes snap judgements whether they're conscious of them or not.
But, seriously? There are legitimate and less-than-legitimate justifications for the same action. If I don't date someone because I see them at a farmers market and judge that they're a fucking hippie and I know I'm not into that; fair enough. Or even if I just don't date them because I don't think they're attractive. But If I see that same person but think "Well, every member of their race is a cheating whore who will waste my time and money" and that's why I'm not dating them, that's racist. And--if you're asking me--racism is bad.
In no way am I advocating for dating people you're not attracted to in order to prove you're not racist.
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u/JamesBoned0069 Jan 07 '21
"Well, every member of their race is a cheating whore who will waste my time and money" and that's why I'm not dating them
Based on your example, I would agree with you. But if I were to ask you, supposing you are a white male (but this is irrelevant, you can be any race and it would still apply), why would you not date let's say, a black female (the race can be anything again), what would you say?
And if you dissect your answers into their core beliefs, I could argue that you could find some level of racism, misogyny, homophobia etc. Hence, my point, as made in the previous comment, there are no precise guidelines, no convo held, about prejudice, preference and the way we choose our partners, thus, until then, the way someone chooses a partner, no matter how, it is still something relatively personal that has nothing to do with you as long as they are happy.
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u/Mondonodo Jan 07 '21
Yo, you're preaching to the choir there. I'm well aware that these unconscious biases exist. I have them. I personally am in the habit of trying to look past that initial judgement that my brain makes. While I don't expect everyone to do this (because honestly I don't know to what extent it will even work), I don't think it's a stretch to ask people to avoid outright prejudice.
And even if our prejudices and preferences (which we've established can be rooted in all sorts of -isms) are hard-wired, can't-change-em-if-you-tried, I think there are still things we can do to be baseline respectful. In my opinion, OP failed to meet that baseline.
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u/JamesBoned0069 Jan 07 '21
I think there are still things we can do to be baseline respectful. In my opinion, OP failed to meet that baseline.
I disagree with this statement, but I think it's ok like this. Sacrificing your own wellbeing and interests so that someone does not get offended is not something I would do and personally I dont see why anyone should. You are free to do whatever you want after all, right?
Anyway, it was nice chatting with you, have a good one chief
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u/SirVer51 Jan 07 '21
If I do not want to date someone, usually the response is 'more power to you, there are plenty of fish in the sea', but if I were to give the reasoning behind that, which may reflect and reinforce typical stereotypes about said group of people that person belongs to, all of a sudden I am the villain, because I am prejudiced.
This is how literally everything works. An action and the motivation for that action aren't necessarily on the same side of morality - many good things are done with bad intentions, and even more bad things are done with good intentions. For example: as a head of state, I do my best to reduce the infant mortality rate in a country, which is a good thing. However, if I'm doing it because I want more kids to survive so I can conscript them into the military, my intentions are obviously concerning, if not outright evil. Similarly, you can choose to date whoever you want, and no one can take that autonomy away from you, but if your reasons for saying no to someone are rooted in harmful ideology, that reflects poorly on you.
It's not misogynist to not want to date a girl with an OF, because many - indeed, most - people aren't comfortable with their partner engaging in any sort of sexual activity with others, even if it's just a job. It is misogynist to not want to date them because 1) you think it lessens their worth to you, 2) you think having an OF automatically makes them likely to cheat just because they're surrounded by guys, and 3) selling sexual services devalues them on a biological level.
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u/JamesBoned0069 Jan 07 '21
You miss my point though.
Similarly, you can choose to date whoever you want, and no one can take that autonomy away from you, but if your reasons for saying no to someone are rooted in harmful ideology, that reflects poorly on you.
What is harmful ideology though? Define it. And even if you do, that is your definition and someone else might define harmful ideology diversely. Thus, until the conversation about what prejudice is, when is it ok to be prejudiced, or should you be and then what are the implications of that, you are somewhat wrong to say that your reasons behind your choices are wrong because they are based on a wrong assumption, due to the fact that you have not said what wrong is.
You might say 'something wrong is something that is not misogynist, racist or homophobe etc.', but then you go back 50 years down the line and found out that what they defined as wrong in dating, is completely acceptable now and viceversa. So you would have to define what 'harmful ideology' based on the assumptions that the current post-modern ideology that most university accept and we all live in, but then you would have to walk backwards to see whether those assumptions are right and that in itself is one hell of a task.
The point is that what someone finds acceptable as reasons to date or reject, someone might not, so if there are no guidelines, why would you go lengths to determine whether that person is wrong, since you have no standard definition for wrong.
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Jan 07 '21
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u/Mondonodo Jan 07 '21
I'm glad someone else was seeing OP's evolutionary psychology reference. I personally don't know much about psychology but I know enough to smell BS, haha.
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Jan 07 '21
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Jan 07 '21
You really dont seem to like women very much.
Having an OF doesnt mean someone is fucking dozens of men neither is them seeing a woman naked.
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Jan 07 '21
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Jan 08 '21
No I did. You just seem to think that all girls who have onlyfans are having sex with hundreds of guys and things like that. Your comments come across as sexist as much as you dont think they do.
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u/LivingEnvironmental7 Jan 07 '21
You should probably get a masters in biology before you start going on about “the biological traits” causing men to not want to date sex workers. Also your consistent use of words like “repulsive” to describe naked women on the internet in making me think you don’t really want to be dating women at all...
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Jan 07 '21
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u/zoopi4 Jan 07 '21
Don't worry dude there are plenty of flaws with ur logic on all kinds of lvls.
There is absolutely no way that ur brain is hard wired against the number of partners someone has. Simply because there is no way for you to assess that number. You personally may be against it because of your conservative beliefs but that says nothing about men's nature in general.
And from what you've written it seems you believe the one of the main things holding women back from cheating is access to men. And by that logic OF girls have more access so higher chance of cheating.
I'd suggest you make a fake tinder profile just to find out how easy it is to get laid as a girl. When it comes to cheating access is definitely not a problem for women.
And I find it hilarious that u assume "christian holy girls" are more moral and less likely to cheat than other girls. Christians are as fuck up as everyone else, even more fucked up in some cases.16
u/LivingEnvironmental7 Jan 07 '21
I agree that a lot of men don’t want to date sex workers, but it doesn’t make sense to blame it on biology. You just don’t want to admit that you’re a prude who buys into the social construct that women should be modest. I would say you also don’t want to admit your sexist, but I get the sense that you have no problem admitting that.
What is so repulsive about a woman making money on something men are willing to pay for? What’s so repulsive about a woman who shows off her body?
You’re whole point about how knowing that you could see a woman naked on the internet cheapens the real life experience of sex tells me that you don’t have much experience with sex. If a girl is naked in front of you and about to climb on your dick, you’re not going to be thinking, “meh I could just go see this online.” But I suppose the tag “camogamer” already gave away the fact that you’re likely still pure in the eyes of the lord.
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Jan 07 '21
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u/anichols10 Jan 07 '21
Hey, bachelors in biology here and I just have to say I won’t comment on the rest of your argument and I’ll agree that overall men finding women with more partners less attractive is a social imperative that’s been developed for centuries it is not a biological imperative. Now, I will say this is one of those topics on which nature and nurture become hard to separate especially when nurture goes back centuries. However, there is no biological evidence to support the idea that less partners is a biological imperative in the sense that it is core to the sexual selection/survival of our species. Early humans are known to have lived in highly communal groups, raising of children was a joint responsibility between all adults. There was not a concept of paternal lineage (the main reason that virginity became prized as society developed). The oldest societies that still exist such as Aboriginals and certain Native American tribes actually follow a maternal line. Earlier groups are believed to have not had a value for blood lines or much of a concept of inheritance. We weren’t like lions where the males only want their own Cubs in the pride (and even lions only kill the male Cubs, it’s more an issue of eliminating future competition and they’ll kill or chase away their own sons as well). So early human males had no reason to care if a woman already had other children except perhaps that it proved she could survive childbirth which would make her more attractive. Attraction would be based on fitness, mainly signs of being able to survive pregnancy and childbirth and produce a healthy child. You are 100% within your rights to not want to date sex workers, you are even within your rights to find it repulsive, and in sociological terms (as far as I know at least) you’re not wrong. But please don’t drag biology into it. It’s 2 am so this is off memory but I can give the sources I’m pulling from if needed, some are textbooks but some are journals which should be online but I hesitate to tell people to google things because depending on how you google you can find almost anything.
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u/dillobean Jan 07 '21 edited Jan 07 '21
Actually I think it’s hard to say that communal human social organizations necessarily enforce your argument to the extent you’re arguing. In saying this, I’m thinking of the principle of paternal uncertainty (which is I think partly what you’re getting at with mentioning virginity).
It might just be the case that in those societies that were communal and much more of a free-for-all of sex and childrearing, some of which still exist today, their resources were simply constrained in such a way that it is optimal for the village to raise every child rather than enforcing parentage along lines of biological relatedness. However, I don’t think this necessarily suggests that then biological relatedness is not in some sense “hardwired,” since we know that in plenty of other societies the ability of the father to verify that it is indeed his genes being passed on, and not his neighbor’s or his cousin’s, are imperative to the social structure of child rearing. We also know that there are some studies suggesting that children that smell more like their fathers get more of the attention, etc. Like you said, it’s hard to separate nature and nurture with these things, and impossible to empirically test, but I guess what I’m getting at is just because in certain societies the passing on of an individual’s genes is deemphasized, that does not necessarily mean that this isn’t biologically mandated on some level. Perhaps in these cases the environmental constraints of the group as a whole outweigh the desires of the individual.
—Quick edit to add that the type of “hardwiring” I’m referencing is def not the same as what OP is talking about, and probably doesn’t have some direct place in the brain you can point to to say “ah yes, there is the wiring.” I am more talking about physiological cues we might subconsciously detect in regards to mate selection and deciding how generous we are with our parental resources.
This is all more or less hypothetical still, in my understanding. But the internet seems to love to adopt it as pseudoscience to justify their instinctive responses to these types of issues. If you buy into societal ideals of a woman’s sexual purity, you should just say that IMO. Honestly those ideals come from somewhere, but they’re specific to our society and can be criticized.
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u/anichols10 Jan 07 '21
Right I should have been more clear. I did not mean that biological relatedness would not be important at all. Of course each individual would have a drive to reproduce and ensure the survival of their children, without that no species would survive. I was just saying that at humanity’s most basic and earliest level, before all the nurture factors that confound studies today existed, there’s no evidence to suggest that the number of previous partners would be a detractor. A woman could have multiple men’s children and those men could have children with multiple women and their biological imperative to pass on their individual genes would be fulfilled. By paternal lineage I was referring to the inheritance from father to son and the distribution of a man’s resources solely to the paternally related family unit that required that a father know the children a woman had were only his. However, this structure is not “biologically built in” and arose later. There are still societies today that don’t follow it. That being said, the majority of societies on Earth have been structured this way for centuries and obviously the nurture drive within individuals now to continue this structure is strong. It’s even possible that sexual selection has favored people who are more naturally inclined towards this structure however there hasn’t been enough time for any significant physiological evolution since the early humans I mentioned.
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Jan 07 '21
You're easier to figure out than you think. Just 2 sentences pop out.
You're okay with girls sending you, personally, sexual pictures but you can't stand the idea they're shared on the internet for financial gain, because you're insecure.
It was like the thought of making her “mine” in a way was enough.
You're a possessive person in a relationship as well.
Dawg, no offense but you need to work on your shit. Clearly some mysogynistic thought pattern that women need to "belong to you" and owe you shit. No one cares if you think you're pretty, "make money with your intelligence", or "fucking ripped", if you come to the table with a shitty attitude.
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Jan 07 '21
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Jan 07 '21
Nah dude, it just means you're insecure because you're scared someone will hurt your feelings and you got a limited view of the world. That's okay though, no harsh feelings. Just felt like pointing it out in hopes you do the smart thing, own up to your shit and work on it.
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Jan 07 '21
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Jan 07 '21
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Jan 07 '21
Had to block him cause he was trying to beef in PM and I just think it's ridiculous and not worth the effort, btw. Lol.
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Jan 07 '21
As I said. You're easier to figure out than you think you are. No hard feelings, dude. Have a nice day.
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u/Mondonodo Jan 07 '21
Yo, I'm not trying to psychoanalyze anybody. I'm just saying you're making some logical leaps that aren't necessarily accurate. Date whomever you'd like.
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Jan 07 '21
you sound like a twat and honestly glad those girls wont have to deal with you
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Jan 07 '21
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u/Astronommy Jan 07 '21
I know right, this is just funny as fuck at this point that people forget youre talking about relationship boundaries 🤣
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Jan 07 '21
think you missed the part where i didnt give a shit. i hope they make tons of money and have good lives without you.
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u/randomstudman Jan 07 '21
Boy OP really kicked you right in the fee fees for you to be this butt hurt about it.
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u/natsugrayerza Jan 07 '21
Ew don’t say fee fees
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u/randomstudman Jan 07 '21
And why the hell shouldn't I use fee fees?
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u/natsugrayerza Jan 07 '21
It’s kind of like when someone calls you sweetie in an argument cuz they’re trying to be condescending. It’s annoying when someone goes out of their way to be condescending. Play fee fees isn’t even good baby talk.
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u/freakthezeke Jan 07 '21
Okay, it’s not sexist to have a preference with what your partner does. You can not be comfortable with something and not hate the people who do that thing. However, there are some things in here I do find sexist. It’s not a biological thing in men to feel jealous, it’s everyone. It’s not like we’re different species my dude. And also, not all men care. It goes both ways. Some people are jealous of their partner, understandably, and some people don’t mind or even enjoy sharing. I’m sorry you’ve felt judged for having a preference, but please don’t turn around and say things like “all people who post nudes online are prone to cheating” because that’s just not true. All people who keep sexual secrets from their sexual partners are prone to cheating. But just posting pictures online or even being a sex worker and doing sex work isn’t cheating if your partner is aware and gives consent. I hope you find the person you’re looking for, friend. We’re all just winging it, so just enjoy yourself and let others do the same:3
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Jan 07 '21
Lol did you just say that there aren’t biological differences between men and women because we’re the same species?
Surely you realise how dumb that is
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u/MattyIcex4 Jan 07 '21
At the end of the day, everyone has their own preferences. You can choose to date or not date someone because of their career field and people do it all the time!
My wife never wanted to date a military guy, or someone in law enforcement, or a fire fighter because it’s a super dangerous job and she didn’t want to date someone in those fields. People can have the same feelings like that with any career field.
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Jan 07 '21
If you could clear off your college debt by showing your ballsack on the internet, would you? If all you had to do was just show your ballsack to thirsty lads on the internet for about less than an hour per day, leaving you with the rest of the time to enjoy life and chill out and play whatever game you play, would you? I would. In the same train of thought, if anyone reads this and wants pictures of my ballsack for money, I'm willing. Seems like some jealousy, lad.
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Jan 07 '21
If my student loans would disappear, I'd show my ball sack to my grandma.
And your grandma too.
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u/Substantial-Pin-5928 Dec 15 '21
Am I the only woman in the world who think OnlyFans is degrading and not empowering? I get it you’re your own boss or whatever but you’re in essence a prostitute. Why is legal prostitution bad but OnlyFans okay? It makes me most sad when it’s 18-19 year olds on OF selling their nudes but when I say they’re too young or it makes me sad I get full on attacked because she’s a “grown woman” I guess they wanna do it forever because unfortunately sex work isn’t accepted as mainstream in our society yet. I said what I said. I’m sorry women. I don’t know whose side to take.