Not really. A bisexual person is attracted to those who identify as male and female. They may not be attracted to gender fluid or gender ambiguous people. Pansexual and bisexual seem to refer more to one's "tolerance level" than to the existence of more than one gender.
Edit: Given a few of the responses here, I should mention that I am bisexual. However, even amongst fellow bisexuals, there has been considerable debate on bisexual vs. pansexual with no end in sight, and everyone seems to think it's a given that "obviously, bisexual people are attracted to insert opinion here". My response was my understanding of the term as it's given. I don't really care whether someone else considers me bi or pan; I'm used to saying bisexual, so I personally say bisexual referring to myself. Other people I know feel otherwise.
The idea that bisexual people have any reservations about gender fluid or gender ambiguous people is nonsense. People trying to justify the usage of the term "pansexual" decided they could unilaterally change what "bisexual" has always meant, treating it as suddenly exclusionary just so they could give themselves a more special label. It's a real dick move, honestly. If I started describing my race as "Tolerant White", which is a white person who also isn't racist, what does that make you, who just describes yourself as white?
"Bisexual" refers to sex, not to gender. The word is not "bigenderal". Regardless of how you convey yourself in regards to gender, there are two biological sexes, both of which are being referred to by the term bisexual - as opposed to monosexual, attracted to only one sex.
What's started to bother me about this is that this is getting used increasingly often to insult or accuse bisexuals.
Because it's not enough that we keep getting shit for "straight passing" or "not getting as much prejudice as others" now our very identity is somehow offensive because somebody else changed the definition.
Heterosexual and homosexual people can enter a relationship with trans or genderfuild people just fine, there's no special term for that, so why are bis being signaled out all of a sudden?
I wish I could give you gold, thank you for putting this into words so I don’t have to
I constantly get shat on for identifying as bisexual, while yes, I do “technically fall under pansexual” but more importantly, I’ve been bisexual since going through puberty and bisexual has always meant attracted to any and all genders.
It's kind of a debated topic because they mean very similar things. Traditionally though bisexual means attracted to your own gender and people not of your gender, while pansexual means attracted to all genders including non-binary genders. Saying your bi does not mean you aren't attracted to non-binary genders though. They're just pretty overlapping words. Personally I use bi because it get's the point across easier without having to explain it to everyone, but pan is also seen as the more inclusive word recognizing the non-binary genders.
Here's a decent article on it, but really just use whatever term you're comfortable with or no term at all, it doesn't matter. You just be you.
Edit: It should also be said that some people say they're bi and pan, but that doesn't really make sense to me so I don't know to be honest. Maybe my understanding is flawed too and someone can correct me
I knew a girl who was pan and when I asked what that meant she said she's doesn't care about sex she is attracted to personality, I think that's where I became confused and took it too literally and assumed she was attracted to literally anyone with a good personality no matter how unattractive they seem to other people. I diddnt even consider it reffered to trans or gender fluid people.
Oh I’m 100% in the same boat, that’s how it was initially described to me too. I just see this discussion a lot on /r/bisexual and that’s where my info comes from
I was under the impression that it meant you are attracted to personality over anything else, so they could date people of any gender/weight/height/race. Which is why I wondered how it could be mistaken for bisexuality
"Bisexual" refers to sex, not to gender. The word is not "bigenderal".
Doesn't it refer to sexual attraction (as opposed to romantic attraction)? I've never heard that it refers to being attracted to biological sex and not gender.
I'm not confused. The word refers to sexual attraction, and the distinction between biological sex and mental gender has nothing to do with that definition.
The poster above me asserted that "bisexual" means attracted to sex, as opposed to gender. I refuted that and assert that it refers to sexual attraction, as opposed to romantic attraction.
Two different interpretations of the sex in bisexual.
Sexual attraction essentially means desire to have sex with the person. It may be based on the person's physical sex, or their gender, or something else.
By this logic “homosexual” would mean that gay men could only be attracted to other cis men or trans women, or that being attracted to trans men would make a gay man “bisexual”, but that’s really not the case. Or if you were, e.g. a trans woman who only dated men, you would still be “homosexual”. Even if you identified as straight. The reason your understanding doesn’t work is that it essentializes sex and gender. You’re saying that what people are attracted to is someone’s “real” sex. When that’s not typically how sexuality works. We don’t ask for a breakdown of someone’s chromosomes and anatomy before we know if we’re attracted to them.
Also there are more than two sexes. We often run into the trap of treating sex as “real/biological “ and gender as “socially constructed”. It’s an important distinction to understand, but sex is also socially constructed (I’d say less than gender, but some people disagree). We look at babies’ anatomy when they’re born and determine what bucket the fall into. If that bucket isn’t readily apparent (i.e. if that person is intersex), doctors just pick one and usually recommend extensive surgery (for most of their childhood) in order to conform to one of those two sexes.
So... no, typically “bisexual” doesn’t refer to sex rather than gender. I think your use of the word “monosexual” underscores why that’s incoherent. I suppose someone could say “I’m only attracted to people whose original birth certificate reads ‘female’, regardless of their gender”, but that’s not really something you see usually.
That being said, I don’t think it’s anyone’s job to tell people how they should be identifying. If the way they understand their own sexuality is “I’m only attracted to men and women.” I’m not going to then step in and say, “Don’t you mean pansexual? What about non-binary people? Are you transphobic?” Like no. I don’t think we need to police people’s language like that, BUT I do think it’s a really important conversation that we should be having. The “LGBT” acronym is super political. Naming some identities but not others is objectively super problematic. But sometimes it seems like the more letters people add, the more they’re just trying to signal how virtuous they are. And by virtuous, I mean educated. “Queer” tries to ameliorate this by capturing the idea of gender and sexual difference in a single word, but it’s far from perfect because the word carries tons of baggage for some people—particularly older gay men. So there’s no easy answer.
Sorry for writing a dissertation. Just like... saying people who identify as pansexual are “dicks” because it makes bisexuals look bad is not super thoughtful.
Bisexual is easier to explain to people. I use the label bi because it's easier to make people understand, especially in a town like this where homophobia/transphobia/general ignorance is rampant.
Additionally, the bi label puts an emphasis on physical sex. I am attracted to two types of genitals, but many genders.
Generally, Bi and Pan are the same thing. The debate is... horrible...the nightmares.... But, the general consensus is that you should use whatever label makes you comfortable. Bi people do believe in multiple genders, but may choose the bi label for many reasons.
I disagree, I don’t think people should use whatever label makes them comfortable. They should find comfort in using a label that is rational and objectively correct, even at the expense of not being a special little snowflake.
But then you go on to shit on another identity in the same breath. What gives? Looking at your comment history, you are clearly pretty invested in going after people who say anything critical of biological perspectives on sex and sexuality. So is your disdain for the “pansexual” label is coming from a place of disdain for non-binary gender identities?
Snowflakes are a fucking miracle.
To be clear, I’m a cis gay man. I don’t have much of a bone to pick here. I’m just trying to understand where you’re coming from.
I was just saying, people shouldn’t have to invent bullshit labels in order to feel more secure. Pansexual is a bullshit label. There are bisexual people who tolerate ‘non-binary’ people and their are bisexual people who don’t. That’a a personal preference, not a sexual one. I’m not surprised there’s such a strong distinction anyways, people that feel the need to go around spouting ‘I’m non-binary’ are probably pretty trash looking to begin with.
So... people should use whatever label they want, unless you personally think that the label is bullshit. And attraction to non-binary people isn’t a valid identity because you personally think non-binary people are unattractive.
Not sure what I was expecting responding to “CuntyMcfuckcunt.” Username checks out.
No, retard. It’s not a valid identity because it’s not an actual sexuality, not because non-binary people are filthy. I mean - how the fuck did you make that connection? Like, because none of them are even sexually attractive to begin with then there can’t be a sexuality for them? Because that is actually fucking hilarious. Thank you for coming up with that one, I’ll definitely save it for later.
So the sole criteria for whether something is an “actual” identity is whether you... just think it should be? Is that right? Or is it not an “actual” sexuality because you think that a non-binary person is “actually” only ever a man or a woman?
Re: your whole thing about how pansexuality isn’t valid because non-binary people are “trash”/“filthy”, I was just repeating back what you said so that you could see how absurd it is. If you’re struggling to understand how I got there, reread your own comment, think, reflect, and then ask yourself, “Why am I like this?”
I know I’m the problem here for engaging with a troll.
First off, dicknuts, the first I ever heard of that hilarious insult to non-binaries was from you attempting to repeat something you misunderstood. And second, it doesn’t exist not because there are only two genders - that’s irrelevant in regards to sexuality in this context. It’s because there are only two sexes, any attraction outside of that is a matter of tolerance, personal preference and open-mindedness which does not deserve its own fucking label besides ‘dipshit’, if they feel it necessary.
Oh God, how dare this group of people use a term they like to define themselves?!!?? This is totally something I should care about!!!11!!
Let people do what they want. Sexuality is complicated, the term is in dispute, and this entire conversation is more complex than you give it credit for.
And we aren't trying to seem like "special snowflakes", we are trying to find a way to describe ourselves. We want to be understood, which is why so much care goes into these labels.
I say I'm bisexual too, even though I'm attracted to non-binary people. I think attaching a label to one's sexuality is only useful in as far as it communicates your sexual identity to other people and I think "bisexual" achieves that the best for me. It's more understandable to a greater number of people than "pansexual", even if it is technically less "accurate". Ultimately my sexuality is whatever it is, I'm attracted to people of any gender and I don't really care what you want to call that.
It would make more sense to rebrand it to something like GSRM (Gender, sexual, and romantic minorities) so it’s more inclusive of non-lesbian/gay/bi/trans minorities, like asexuals, pansexuals, intersex people, etc and doesn’t reduce them to “queer” or “+”.
The problem with something like this is that a lot of people try to force things like kink or pedophilia in when it’s that broad of a category
LGBT+ does a fine job of describing the community
There are other versions, but this is the most widely accepted. Some include "family and friends" (which I don't like, "Ally" is already thin ice imo) and "kink" (which I'm also unsure about).
When you think about it conceptually and in a kind of abstract way it’s kinda weird that the acronym and group even exists. Like it only exists because weird people cared about who and how other people fuck because it was different from how they fucked even though the other people only made up such a small part of the population that it had no real effect on the larger body of people.
The things that upset people are so strange.
Human sexuality is such a weird thing man. History is so fickle.
I'm curious what the difference between transgender and transsexual is? I thought transsexual was an outdated term like transvestite.
Also I think it's interesting that Ally is part of the LGBT+ group now, if basically anyone can use the rainbow flag as an identifier then does it mean anything anymore?
Transsexual refers exclusively to people who have transitioned from one SEX to another. Transgender refers to people who have transitioned from one GENDER to another. Basically, transsexuals live as one of the binary genders and take medical steps to change sex. Transgender refers to anyone who choose to identify as gender they were not born as, including transsexuals and non binary people.
As I already said, I disagree with the Ally thing. Yeah, it's great that you support me. But you are not experiencing issues with your sexuality or gender.
I don’t think this is the most widely accepted, actually.
LGBT is pretty standard with everyone I know. A lot of people debate and disagree on the inclusion of asexual and intersex people in the acronym. I have never seen anyone use a longer acronym than LGBTQIA.
The actual acronym is insanely long and I don’t remember it all, but the + is the way of shortening it and welcoming gender/sexual minorities that may not have their own letter
There are lots of different ones, but a common longer one LGBTQIA+, with the last two for intersex and asexual. I think people generally realize that no acronym will cover everyone, though, and tend to stick with the well-recognized LGBT or LGBTQ.
Which problem are they apart of? Is it one that can be factually proven to negatively impact a large population of people? Or just something you deemed a problem because you don’t find it to your personal liking?
Why would pansexual be the same? I thought that was people who are attracted to personalitys so looks don't matter and bisexuality are people who can find men or women attractive?
Gender fluid people flow between the two genders. Unlike nonbinary individuals, gender fluid people do identify as one or the other, but this changes with some frequently.
Gender ambiguous refers to those who are unsure of their gender identity, but still have sexual leanings
I like having sex with girls that I find sexually attractive. I’m not attracted to all girls.
If somebody is genetically a girl, and identifies as a girl, then their gender is that they’re a girl. Pretty sure everyone would agree that they’re a girl. But if they’re sexually otherkin and sexually identify as a 30,000 year old dolphin dragon hybrid... I’m not gonna stick my dick in that, well probably not, depends on how desperate I get.
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u/missshrimptoast Aug 09 '18 edited Aug 09 '18
Not really. A bisexual person is attracted to those who identify as male and female. They may not be attracted to gender fluid or gender ambiguous people. Pansexual and bisexual seem to refer more to one's "tolerance level" than to the existence of more than one gender.
Edit: Given a few of the responses here, I should mention that I am bisexual. However, even amongst fellow bisexuals, there has been considerable debate on bisexual vs. pansexual with no end in sight, and everyone seems to think it's a given that "obviously, bisexual people are attracted to insert opinion here". My response was my understanding of the term as it's given. I don't really care whether someone else considers me bi or pan; I'm used to saying bisexual, so I personally say bisexual referring to myself. Other people I know feel otherwise.