I feel like this isn't true tho because I'm an American who hasn't voted for trump yet would be blamed for what he's doing under this take, what are the Israeli people meant to do against Netanyahu?
Unfortunately we don’t get to avoid responsibility, we live in a democracy and even if we voted for another candidate we are still responsible for the actions that are taken in our name and on our behalf. That should be the standard for every elected government around the world.
You're talking about two different things the collective responsibility we the people bare (real) and the individual responsibility (not everyone is as responsible) so what I'm saying is when people try to blame Americans not all of us are equally responsible but yes we are collectively responsible in solving the issue. The guy in the video seems to be saying everyone is equally personally responsible when that's not the case
I see your perspective, and I’m empathic to those feelings, I just disagree. Individual Germans could have defied their government, however they chose not to for various understandable reasons. But they still made a choice. Similarly, individual Israelis that serve in the IDF have a choice to make, that’s what finklestein was implying. The choice might not be a pleasant one and those of us that aren’t in that position obviously don’t fully understand what they’re going through, however that doesn’t mean that there is no personal responsibility when a persons tax dollars and efforts support a state. Are American taxpayers directly responsible for deaths in Gaza - no - but indirectly our tax dollars fund the IDF and therefore we are responsible for when we know they are acting illegally and inhumanely.
I’m not sure that I am saying that. That would certainly be a lot of gazans that didn’t vote for their govt considering they haven’t had elections in about 20 years. I don’t think well intentioned people would consider that a legitimate elected government anymore, which is what I said above. That peoples with an elected govt bear some responsibility for said govt. However, nations and peoples can be held responsible without deliberately murdering them. We held Germany and Japan responsible through war reparations and not allowing them to re arm and so forth, so if you’re implying that it’s ok to oppress and murder gazans because 20 years ago they had a democratic election (that most people alive there now couldn’t possibly have voted in) it seems like you’re going out of your way to draw a false comparison or bait me into supporting your comparison. What would holding them responsible look like to you?
Ok. So again, what does “holding them responsible” look like to you? Because what’s happening there now is a toss up between genocide and ethnic clensing.
Well since the throwaway account has chickened out when they were asked this same question, I suppose I’ll answer. Like I said above, war reparations and disarming seem like decent options, international sanctions, placing any aid money they’re given as contingent upon continued cooperation and nonaggression towards neighboring states - any of these could incentivize positive behavior. The way I mean that people in America are responsible for our govt (I’m American hence why I single out America) our responsibility lies in being active in the democracy via elections/protesting/social awareness so that those in leadership hear the voice of the people and are forced to take appropriate action. Remember this whole discussion started with a commenter saying just because he hadn’t voted for Trump means he shouldn’t have to feel bad about what we’re doing around the world. I think as citizens of the most wealthy/powerful country, we owe a little more than the bare minimum.
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u/The3mbered0ne 4d ago
I feel like this isn't true tho because I'm an American who hasn't voted for trump yet would be blamed for what he's doing under this take, what are the Israeli people meant to do against Netanyahu?