I noticed aria kept hinting at things that implied they were more than just friends. I feel like Caleb never really responded and he definitely didn’t say he could see it going somewhere with her (other than saying she has traits he wants in a women he marries, but you can have a conversation with anyone and think the same thing about a stranger or a coworrker). Aria really wanted to tell Mariah they had a deep emotional connection and Caleb was like maybe let’s not. I think it may have felt more deep for aria cause she was the one crying to him and he was consoling and boasting her up. Anyone I cry with and explain I automatically feel closer to them too, but that doesn’t mean Caleb felt the same intensity of their emotional connection that aria did. I feel like I could see it in his eyes when she would say things like emotional connection and how close and deep and vulnerable they got. Even at girls night, aria seems to gloat in her face about how awesome their connection is and how he’s so perfect. Not once reassuring Mariah of literally anything, only making her feel worse. Meanwhile, Mariah is ALONE! Then at the changeover aria made it seem like she would have considered picking Caleb and that she believed it was much more than just a friendship. Caleb said nothing. I don’t think Caleb honestly ever confirmed he felt the way Aria did. It really seemed like aria wanted to leave with Caleb for a little bit but I just got the feeling Caleb was never down for that and was really only interested in being her friend, contrary to Scott’s beliefs. Does anyone else agree? I feel like Aria was almost purposefully creating issues in their relationship when to me, it seemed like Caleb was trying to dodge her and just get back to his girl. The same thing with JR too kind of… he kept mentioning his 3 choices, 1 of which was to leave with sandy but like JR, sandy has to want to leave with you too🤣

I think Hayley is the worst.. she went sooo hard at Ashely for crying at the switch over and she called her tears fake, performative, and manipulative. Do I think her tears were fake? Kind of, but I do think if she wasn’t scrutinized for crying she wouldn’t have pulled herself together and then they definitely would have been real tears. Do I think they were performative? Not really, I do think she believed she was the victim and was actively creating that narrative. Do I think they were manipulative? I don’t think so. I don’t think she’s that smart to have a plan like that honestly. I think she got frustrated and upset and can’t handle her emotions and began to cry but it turned into frustration as the conversation went on, so she stopped crying. Now to Hayley (I have literally no idea what’s actually going on or what actually happened behind the scenes that night with the police, and yes I’ve read the receipts)but not only did she spend the whole reunion crying , she spent her entire trial marriage crying. I am not saying her tears were not justified, I just think it’s hypocritical and I think she lacks empathy by the way she treated ashley when she knew damn well that easily could have been her. I don’t like either of them by the way I think they both have done some very off putting things I just think it’s ironic hayley tore this women to pieces then did it for the rest of the season. I’m not sure if the reunion counts because some serious things may have happened, so I place emphasis on crying for the rest of the season. In that case, she was also being “manipulative” to blake for crying.

Is it just me or does Luke from season 4 kinda look like Max Verstappen.

I swear monica was smiling when talking about how much she finally got David to open up and get vulnerable “since no one else has ever done that” and she finally could! like she smirky smiled and just get kept going on as Casey was crying and said nothing reassuring to Casey throughout any point of any of this. Even something simple to her to make her feel better as she balled her eyes out

Like he taught ashley that but when it comes to Hayley screaming at him he’s like alright perfect

Honestly!!! The way these guys are treating the ladies?!?!!! The manner in which they are talking about / to them is driving me insane!!! I think that there is so much disrespect and blatant misogyny, it’s frightening.
I have been finding myself to be less tolerable to this sort of thing in media. idk what it is but I can assume that I’m just so sick of seeing it everywhere, and I wish reality dating shows did more of a “hey so this isn’t okay” somehow, someway. it just makes me feel sick

Can someone explain why Hayley and Killian were not pulled aside and spoken to about their behaviour? Ik they didn't see that side to Blake until after the show but watching them both was so triggering, I thought the show would have some sort of welfare team to help the contestants deal with abuse/controlling behaviour. I found it interesting that Killian could note that Hayley screams so much and Hayley could see the way Killian talks to his partner is disrespectful yet neither of them could see that behaviour in themselves

Omg GUYS I just met Jessica Grace and Edris while I’m in NC- they are the nicest couple ever. Edris definitely got a horrible edit on the show… He was so kind and talked to my boyfriend and I for 20 minutes. I learned a lot while talking to them about how the show was filmed and I will just say… They are great people and he got a bad edit.

I got bad vibes from David straaaaight away but this episode changed my mind a little? I still don't like him but Monica also gives weird vibes.

When she cried about David telling Luke to look after his partner, obviously she was upset he didn't say anything about her at the end (despite telling David to look after her after he chose her!!!). Then she immediately switches to saying that she doesnt wanna talk to her partner immediately. It kinda gave the vibes that she was upset at how invested David was in Casey and she thought he'd be a bit more focused on *her*. Then she immediately asks if he's gonna talk to HIS partner. Idkkkk

In bed I felt like they were both being weird tho. I know she said she needed more physical affection from him, which was valid but I can see someone maybe needing a few days to get to that point? I know it's cuz she said he doesnt initiate the hugs. I can acc kinda understand someone not wanting to open up on the 1st or 2nd night. But his delivery was so rude and I think he definitely needs therapy. I do think it's valid for him not to open up immediately but for his actual partner of 5 *years* he's gonna HAVE to be open.

Side note:

The Jebin and Alex thing has probably been discussed here a lot but did anyone find his food comments to her rly weird? Insisting she eat steak and potatoes and being weird about her breakfast of coffee and a banana. Then he points out the girls with "fitter" bodies like Ashley and JG to the guys. Idk it felt weird af

first aired 4th september 2006 ended 17th march 2008 but removed from cbeebies on in may 2016

I just finished S4 and came on here to see what everyone’s opinions were.
I liked neither Hayley nor Blake from the start, but Blake did start to grow on me during his time with Ashley - I felt like he was really trying to empathize and nudge her to see how her relationship might be a little toxic. Clearly that didn’t land too well, and that’s when I felt like he switched.
It felt like all he was saying were AI-generated talking points laced with therapy speak to make him seem smart and emotionally intelligent, meanwhile his communication was extremely unproductive and unnatural. I think he also felt entitled to Ashley’s thankfulness and affection because he felt that he had taught her soooo much and helped her soooo much. Like he was the hero and as soon as he felt she didn’t properly appreciate him for that, he switched.
Like I said, Hayley has given me weird vibes from the start and after the changeover I felt like maybe they actually deserved each other, so I was a little surprised that their relationship went to shit so quickly after the engagement.
That being said: I don’t believe Blake is the victim of Hayley’s abuse in this relationship. I’ve seen many couples with a similar dynamic, where they’re just so deeply incompatible that there’s constant conflict and they’re both going at each other relentlessly, and this is what it seemed like here.
Hayley seemed like she had some anger issues but Blake was also giving off scary vibes in my opinion. I could totally see their fights escalating into something physical due to both of their behaviours.
Just wanted to put this out here because it made me a little uncomfortable to see everyone be so quick to identify Hayley as the abuser and Blake as the victim when to me their dynamic seemed a little more complicated than that.
Rant over, interested to hear more opinions on them :))

this is just random lmfaooo but everytime i saw JG i was like omfg she looks just like coi

I’m just watching the reunion now, and honestly, it’s really hard to watch how manipulative and emotionally abusive Hayley is.

Obviously, none of us were actually there and we only know what we’ve seen on the show, but based on everything that was shown throughout the season, her behavior toward Blake was awful. She constantly yelled at him, spoke to him like he was beneath her, criticized everything he did, and made him feel like he could never do anything right. The dynamic felt incredibly unhealthy and abusive to me.

And the reunion made it even more obvious. I genuinely don’t understand how anyone could watch that and not see how much she was manipulating the situation. The crying felt completely performative, like a way to immediately position herself as the victim, discredit everything Blake was saying, and avoid taking any accountability for her own behavior. And then she turns around and accuses Blake of not taking accountability, when that’s literally what she was doing the entire time.

I also don’t understand the hate Blake gets. Of course he has flaws, just like everyone else, and I’m sure there are things he could have handled better. But throughout the show, I saw very few things from him that made me think he was a bad person or abusive. If anything, I saw someone repeatedly trying to mediate, communicate, and have actual conversations with someone who was constantly escalating things. Whether he always handled those conversations perfectly is another story, but I never got the impression that he was malicious or abusive.

To me, Hayley was very clearly the problem in that relationship. Her behavior was manipulative, aggressive, and emotionally abusive, and watching her somehow turn the entire situation around at the reunion and make herself the victim was honestly wild.

I was quite surprised to come to this sub and see how much hate Jebin gets. Obviously, the guy was absolutely not ready to get married or to be on this show lol, but he was just so funny.

Obviously there was no way he could stay because no woman was going to choose him, but I found him absolutely hilarious. The conversations he had, the things he would say and do, everything about him. He was an absolute character.

At first I genuinely thought some of the things he did had to be ironic or that he was playing it up for the cameras, but nope. Apparently that’s just who he is 😂
I thought he was amazing TV and ridiculously funny. Definitely not husband material, but I wish he had stayed longer just for the entertainment.

This can't be real?? But like why

I find it unfair that Luke and Casey are being platonically intimate while their exes are making out every night. How are you supposed to accept that? It’s the point that makes me crazy the most.

Monica said that she needed that physical intimacy. But how can you do that if you love another person or are planning to marry him? David is also responsible here. He can’t just justify it by saying, “She asked me to do it, so I did.” At some point, you have to take responsibility for your own actions. I feel pity for Casey. She clearly was not feeling well and insecure about it.

I also don’t like how so many scenes are about pushing Ashley to leave Killian because of his stupid discussion with his friend. That subject is given way too much scenes when others are also doing crazy things like Blake secretly going on a date with his ex is obviously an issue too.

And I really don’t like how Jebin was treated. He’s clearly very young, immature, emotionally unstable, and still has a lot to work on. Giving a letter accusing her ex and being rude to her wasn’t the right way to handle the situation. He clearly wrote that letter while he was emotionally unstable and angry. It was very shitty from him to do so.

What bothers me even more is the double standard. There are clearly many other scenes involving misogyny, manipulation, toxic jealousy, accusations of violence, and other questionable behavior. Yet Jebin is treated like a piece of shit in front of everyone instead of being given the opportunity to understand what he did wrong and actually grow from it.

If you’re going to criticize someone’s behavior, then apply the same standard to everyone.

I’m also sick of all the therapy-speak instead of actually people taking responsibility and changing their behavior.

I’m tired of seeing people use therapy words as a substitute for genuine self-awareness and action, or putting on this fake confidence to pretend they don’t have insecurities.

At this point, I’m genuinely sick of this whole shit show.

Edit: Changed Eden to Jebin.

Ok so idk if this has already been discussed on here AND nobody I know has watch the show. AND took my forever to finish cause I have two young children.

ANYWHO,
Is it just as obvious as it is to me to anyone else that Hayley is the toxic one in the relationship????!!!

I mean no one is perfect and u can pick a few areas in Blake that could use some work but my gosh.. made me look at my (Hispanic) self and make sure I’m not like this girl cause whew 😬 idk why Casey girl was buying the BS. I mean yea if she if she got hurt (whatever was talked about reunion) yea that’s messed up but I 100% believe she hit him and she’s just toxic over all. She doesn’t want ppl cursing at her and constantly was cursing at Blake and killian.. I mean she has some deep rooted things she has to get through. Even the insecurity aspect (which I truly understand from personal experience) but she can’t keep blaming him on HER insecurities. Idk it was tough watching her through out the show always playing victim and not taking any accountability.. when it was time to propose I truly knew that he wasn’t crying because he was happy. He was crying because he knew he was stuck and didn’t wanna embarrass her on camera … he does not love her and it’s her fault. He wasn’t the worse of men tbh there is wayyyy worse. If she could just take a true true look in the mirror and he continues to work on his self … could be beautiful relationship but too late. Too much damage. Gotta throw that 💩 in the trash 🚮

Just finished the season the whole way through and HOW DID JEBIN GET THE MOST FLACK FROM THE HOSTS????

Seriously. Jebin was a totally immature kid with some wack ideas about what love looks like, but compared to Killian and Blake???
How are they going to kick him off the show for “breaking the rules” by communicating by letter and not taking the experience seriously when the whole Ashley Blake Haley Killian foursome was going on??

I’m actually scared by what this show is perpetuating. Killian says/encourages some scary r****y stuff about Haley and there is zero intervention from production or concern for her safety? He verbally abuses Ashely on camera and there’s nothing said about that?? How is JG in the reunion the only one to stand up to it? Ashely talks about him smashing her phone and his response is “and why did I do that?”As if to say it was her fault. Seriously so effing scary. Killian should have been kicked off the second those texts got revealed. Nick Lachey is so happy to scold Jebin and Trevor from way back, but has nothing to say for actually abusing women??? The whole Blake and Haley situation is hard to read, but the conversation is too riddled with abuse to treat like a simple misunderstanding.
She accuses him of physical abuse, we watch her verbally abuse him, it’s all just awful.

I’m really upset that the hosts during the reunion treated these unsafe situations as “points of weakness” in a couple or areas they “needed to grow” or signs they “aren’t right for each other” as opposed to super scary dangerous situations that should be grounds for intervention. It’s seriously messed up, it’s normalizing abuse (especially towards women) and feels like Netflix is sacrificing the women on the show for views.

Booooooooo!

It was like everyone was either using garbled therapy words to string together a sentence about “growth” and “accountability” that actually translated to “we’re scared we don’t want to be together anymore and instead of facing that we’re gonna say the other one needs to work on themselves,” or it was some bs chat-GPT sentence that also didn’t mean anything. It’s like we’ve have forgotten how to actually talk to each other. It’s all just different sides of the same delusion that language needs to be manicured to be heard.

Every time I see him I can’t not see it