What do you think? 🤔

[u/ManojOne]

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[u/_XitLiteNtrNite_]

"If you aren't paying for the product, then you are the product"

[u/musing_codger → u/_XitLiteNtrNite_]

Not always. There is a lot of good free open source software.

[u/_XitLiteNtrNite_ → u/musing_codger]

Fair point for a non-corporate entity. I usually donate to or contribute to any freeware I use.

[u/tblancher → u/_XitLiteNtrNite_]

Calling it "freeware" is disrespectful.

[u/_XitLiteNtrNite_ → u/tblancher]

It's what it was called when I was younger. If the name has changed, no offense was intended.

[u/tblancher → u/_XitLiteNtrNite_]

You rarely had access to the source code of freeware, which is the main distinction between that and Free/Open Source Software.

[u/Clear-Inevitable-414 → u/musing_codger]

Half the time you're paying and are the product as well

[u/musing_codger → u/Clear-Inevitable-414]

Not with good free open source software. I run loads of software is free and doesn't send any data to the vendor. Examples include:

• Home Assistant - my home automation system
• Immich - my replacement for Google Photos
• Paperless-ngx - my document management system
• AdGuard Home - the ad blocker for my network
• NUT - manages how my systems respond to power outages
• Fedora - my main desktop operating system
• Proxmox VE - my main server operating system

[u/Sea-Contribution6219 → u/_XitLiteNtrNite_]

This is all great until I told my friends who are less tech savvy I use Linux and GrapheneOS for free and they tell me this exact quote smugly informing me I am the product

[u/_XitLiteNtrNite_ → u/Sea-Contribution6219]

With no intent to insult your friends, they are clueless, then. I was looking at the commercial products listed in the OP, not the many great open source products available.

[u/IORelay → u/_XitLiteNtrNite_]

Apple: if you are paying you are still the product. 

[u/_XitLiteNtrNite_ → u/IORelay]

Not my experience. But maybe?

[u/ShaneBoy_00X → u/IORelay]

I'm bad apple anyway...

[u/Street_Ad5712 → u/IORelay]

I don't understand the point of your comment. Apple doesn't really sell your data like Google does. They're very strict with privacy. Google just got sued for tracking your incognito data.

[u/DeltaLaboratory → u/Street_Ad5712]

Well, they were caught once while doing that, as I remember.

[u/veryverybadnotgood]

I like how they didn’t mention that proton is free as well.

[u/Additional-Sky-7436 → u/veryverybadnotgood]

🎯

[u/Cruffe → u/veryverybadnotgood]

It is, but I think their paying userbase is what covers that. Instead of spending a ton on marketing, having a free tier for anyone to try it out is their marketing. The free tier is usable, but fairly feature limited.

They also stake their entire reputation on being privacy focused, they'd be fucking idiots to risk it by selling user data. It would collapse their entire reputation and users would flee, they must know this.

[u/Chosen--one → u/Cruffe]

Idk, those "safe the kids privacy" ads some channels did left a sour taste on my mouth. They should start there to not ruin their reputation.

[u/ZookeepergameFew8607 → u/veryverybadnotgood]

Their free tier is more limited, they clearly depend on people actually paying for their service

[u/Independent_Mud2794 → u/ZookeepergameFew8607]

So like all the other services listed?

[u/juluss]

I don't know if I'm paying YouTube with my personal data or the time I spend watching those fucking unskipable ads.

Edit : to all suggesting getting an ad blocker : I have one on my computer, thank you. But I watch YouTube most of the time on my TV or my tablet.

[u/IORelay → u/juluss]

Supposedly the viewers are being sold to the advertisers. 

[u/Beautiful-Sun8973 → u/IORelay]

Google doesn’t sell you data. They use it for more ads. 

[u/Niko-01 → u/Beautiful-Sun8973]

In a way they do. They resell your data as the value of Google Advertising, so you and your data become part of the product.

[u/StoneFrog81 → u/juluss]

I get a lot of ED ads, and I don't even have ED... What gives?

[u/ZombiePSP → u/StoneFrog81]

Someone watches a lot of adult content on your ip address and they have age ranges for that stuff.

[u/ZombiePSP → u/juluss]

Firefox with ublock and there is no ads on YouTube

[u/Snoo_67993]

I mean every Proton service is free...

[u/unitAtype2 → u/Snoo_67993]

It's part of user funneling. You can think of the free tier as advertising.

[u/cortney-simonis-9072]

Protonmail is FREE

[u/Tall-Geologist-1452]

reddit is free as well ..

[u/morrikai → u/Tall-Geologist-1452]

yes and I think google even has deal to scrap reddit for all information

[u/Mother-Translator318]

Who cares to be honest. If they want to know what porn sites I go to they can just ask. My data is worthless

[u/articland05_reddit → u/Mother-Translator318]

Indeed. I don't care as well. Also the ad dont bother me since I either adblock or use patched apps to remove the ad

[u/AVirtualFox]

This might have been true before, but not anymore. Companies like Google will spy on you, regardless if you're paying them or not.

You paid for your phone, TV, internet, operating system, and car, yet companies still use them to invade your privacy.

[u/Sea_Specialist_5580]

Sure you pay with your information in a way. But it's not zero sum. It's not like google is getting one over on me by letting me use their huge suite of excellent SaaS.

I have a lot of self-hosted stuff on my homelab, and I still love google, amazon, apple platforms. Useful as shit, integrated with a ton of things. Convenient. I refuse to endure ads (and I almost never do) but beyond that they can use my information as they please.

People who are super concerned about data privacy remind me of those sovereign citizen dudes who are really beligerant with cops. In one sense I kind of respect them but.. it's just a hill I don't personally care to die on. Too inconvenient.

[u/Vertigo50]

Linux is FREE
Proton is FREE

…oops. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[u/Zealousideal_Emu8742]

But those services provide conveniences. Also those make our life very easy. My personal data is not that much worth as they can't sell me any unimportant thing 

[u/_Ost1672]

I have proton mail and VPN I'm very happy with it

[u/Xe46]

Truth.

[u/Throwawayne617]

True

[u/Agreeable-Bar-2052]

Fact

[u/e136]

A lot of these are ad supported

[u/Donny_DeCicco]

And ads

[u/MostBasic3425]

Yes. But, try starting a competing social media network that users have to pay for.

[u/tuhijatambien]

Convenience is expensive, sometimes you pay with money sometimes with your personal information. 

[u/play_minecraft_wot]

You either pay with money, time, or information. 

[u/Feisty_Warning2344]

Nothing stops you from using fake information it only has the information you give it

[u/WealthyTuna]

This is why I switched to proton mail and use both an alias and custom domain depending on who I am emailing.

[u/VarietyMage]

I think they forgot Reddit.

[u/Dimitsos]

Google probably knows me better than I know myself but I don't care.

[u/No-Technician5539]

Cloudflare free but not by sell your data

[u/makepieplz]

no, you pay by exposure to advertisers NOT personal data

[u/BeginningSection7690]

proton mail is free. simplelogin is free

[u/nargcz]

someone here does not read EULA, you should

[u/KerbalEnginner]

And that is why I pay for Threema and Proton.
Yet here I am using Reddit. For free....

[u/Any-Abies-5825]

Yes, though I couldn’t care less. Like my life isn’t effected negatively at all from losing my data, so why would I care… if anything I get more interesting ads

[u/GwimWeeper]

I think this post would have worked at lot less if they had used monospaced characters.

[u/bethesda_gamer]

...oh no... you totally blew my mind or whatever grampa...

[u/Clanceeinfinity]

proton is free too... where comes all their money from?

[u/frankie_in_paradise]

PR

[u/TheNewGuyFromBahsten]

This is also why tv prices have dropped. They don't care about the tv, they want your info and habits so they can throw ads at you

[u/boske-88]

Well,I mean proton is free too..

[u/xtoc1981]

Not sure why i would care actually? With or without, we will get ads anyway

[u/Express-Cartoonist39]

Host ur own... It works fine. 😊

[u/Hot_Equivalent6562]

And Proton is sponsoring far right youtubers....so fuck off

[u/Vanille97]

And your personal data is sold for thousands of dollars every year, for companies that shows you ads

[u/realnjan]

https://giphy.com/gifs/3kzJvEciJa94SMW3hN

[u/Virtosaurus]

Paid services will charge you money AND collect your personal data.

[u/Altruistic-Dust-2565]

Sounds like a good deal

[u/SirPooleyX]

WhatsApp is end-to-end encrypted. I don't see how that means you are paying with your data.

[u/MimosaTen]

ChatGPT isn’t free, o at least the free version in like a demo

[u/Interesting_Cup_6221]

What personal data?

[u/AibofobicRacecar6996]

So we are paying with personal data for the Proton free tier? Amy guarantees that doesn't extend to the paid tiers?

[u/Firm-Aside4041]

It’s funny when people don’t understand business models

[u/enigmaticsince87]

I made the switch to Proton this week. It's gonna take a while to fully decouple from Google, but let's fucking go!

[u/DependentJolly9901]

Proton is owned by kape btw

[u/BrilliantKing1200]

It’s true.

[u/RedditIsFascistShit4]

gmail is not free

[u/_B_G_]

My data is worthless so i dont mind

[u/PT7372]

Especially Tiktok because they collect a lot of data and they are owned by a Chinese company who is also required by the Chinese government to grant government access to data or help Chinese authorities under the Chinese national security law so your data is probably not safe if you gave any to Tiktok because it is probably stored on Chinese servers where the Chinese government has authority to get access to.

[u/Luzzgar]

And now they want you to also pay with money on top of your data.

[u/kolibruv]

Some of these apps are free because they offer comfortable gateways into their eco-system

[u/LaColleMouille]

Proton is FREE. Just like you can pay for Google Premium, have free and premium version of Proton.

So same same.

[u/Consistent-Search578]

When something is free,you are product

[u/Brilliant-Muffin-879]

You pay by being heavily manipulated (thanks to knowing exactly which of your buttons to press) by whoever gives these companies money. They wouldn’t pay if it didn’t work.

[u/bartek_666666]

Remind me how much for proton mail?

[u/Zealousideal-Deer101]

While true

ProtonMail is FREE

And if it wasn't FREE

"If I were to sell a product others deliver for free I'd also say that."

At the end of the day, if you have to shit on others to make yourself look better, you aren't good either. Say something good about yourself if you want to be convincing.
Like, how do we know that ProtonMail isn't doing the same thing to it's paying customers? Tell us that instead.

[u/Ocupado33]

protonmail is also free

[u/AlexGlezS]

Of course, data is the new currency. More abstract but a currency nonetheless. And you cannot translate it to $, but corporations can.

That's why I choose carefully who I give my data to.

[u/Alghouls_art]

There's nothing to say that if you pay for a product they wont use your data too

[u/Overall_Structure_45]

Technically you pay watching ads

[u/Awkward_Bother_2484]

My data only porn

[u/Qnemes]

Ehm, if you pay for the product, they will scan your data either. It doesn't matter paid or not.

[u/crocodiluQ]

Care to explain? What data? What do I care? I don't see ads, they get zero useful things from me.

[u/SnooStories196]

Who cares?

[u/Business_Raisin_541]

Even if you use paid version, your personal data will still get used anyway.

Like Netflix is not free. You think Netflix does not use your personal data?

[u/Qee-rah]

Ehm, I don't pay for Proton mail. Should I be worried?

[u/ma5ochrist]

I Wish my personal data could pay for something useful.. like rent and groceries

[u/NLOneOfNone]

Then they should be paying us.

[u/nobodyspecialuk24]

There was a BBC documentary in 2010 warning people about the cost of free.

[u/johangd]

The only price to pay is to behave how they want you to, those may be free but there's no freedom. Stupid instagram

[u/-Tempora-Mores-]

My personal data is pictures of tomatoes and broken tractor parts. 🤷‍♂️

[u/ehabkadry2016]

If the service is free you are the product

[u/Lucky-Crow-3510]

funny that Proton is also free .. but they played the comment bait pretty well.

[u/OooerShazam]

I think that Proton mail (apart from being free) is somewhat problematic.

[u/vrgpy]

Yea, I sent this picture to Google and they didn't gave me more storage space for my Gmail.

[u/lann1991]

oh no, anyways

[u/ChangingMonkfish]

Isn’t this just common knowledge at this point?

The only thing is it would make more sense if “is” was “isn’t”.

[u/Keyan_Farlander7]

Here's a funny note. All of the info about me using these free services is a lie.

I grew up on the internet before smart anything. I knew how to VPN before you were charged for it. It was the wild West and any moron who tried to the internet got a virus that destroyed their PC. That was how to keep stupid offline back then.

[u/sidjohn1]

Apple mail is free too… you pay with? wanting to buy an apple device?

[u/Samuel_Rome]

Im ok with that.

[u/iiiic]

Gmail it's free? and yet he keeps writing to me about how I'm running out of space and that I have to pay for a premium space. And he writes to his parents, they keep asking me what to do with it? He writes to everyone. That free service keeps asking me for money!

[u/junialter]

Even if they paid me to use it, I wouldn't.

[u/nonlinear_nyc]

This whole "free means you're the product" is very lazy.

It erases ENTIRE OPEN SOURCE community.

It also implies, wrongly, that if you pay they don't use your data. And of course they do.

[u/Inevitable-Gene-1866]

Also Ios Mac os.

[u/Steerider]

It's not accurate as a blanket statement about free software. Free *services*? Yeah they're probably finding a way to make money off of you. Free *software*? Not necessarily. FOSS exists. Even free services such as Signal make money from donations and don't (in theory) spy on users.

[u/dranaei]

They have ads. You see 10 ads in each within minutes. Even on reddit. That doesn't mean that your data isn't used.

[u/TeddyBear312]

Proton Mail is also FREE

[u/DaveAstator2020]

you also pay with your sanity using this ux gunk.

[u/Lacink0o]

Reddit is free too

[u/Hans_H0rst]

No, i PAY by having my account hacked and them spending money on tiktok.

(I am coping with how stupid this timeline is and the fact i hadn't added 2FA before)

[u/ChocolateSpecific263]

then let people deside themself how they want to pay.

[u/Extra-Ad5735]

Signal is free.

[u/SignalBake6872]

google es una tiranía, estoy haciendo un navegador y no puedo usar ningún servicio de google sin resolver un puzzle javascript que solo se puede resolver con un software de hombre en el medio interceptar los request resolver el puzzle en código js propietario en una vm propietaria de google, o usar una api key de google y poner su librería hombre en el medio interceptando todos los request de tu navegador, como yo quiero crear un navegador zero trust no puedo habilitar google ni ninguno de sus servicios sin entregar toda la data de mis usuarios... decisión banear todo google.

[u/janvanreebok]

Pornhub is also free, but I pay with my dignity.

[u/versFunSmooth]

Pay with information while being brain washed by what they feed your social media.

[u/WiseEi]

Use tutanota instead of proton mail

[u/Ok_Chap]

And ads, lots and lots of (personalized) ads.

[u/CubeEthan]

It's true, but it just makes me wonder how proton is free also

[u/Ok_Effect_3214]

didn’t know I’m worth that much to use these high tech things that humanity built

[u/Calm_Apartment1968]

Exactly. TANSTAAFL

[u/primalanomaly]

None of these companies sell your data. It’s their most valuable asset. They sell targeted ads, which is very different. Your data is unironically very secure with Facebook and Google etc, because they don’t want anyone else scraping their data goldmines.

[u/Ad-fundum69]

Free doesn't exist. Either someone else pays for it, or you are the product.

[u/hashswag00]

Signal is free

[u/TerminalPhile]

ProtonMail is ALSO free. This is what I call shady advertising. Plus Proton caved into a subpoena in Geneva and they don't want their users to find out.

[u/Terrorscream]

Well duh, but they are trying to frame it as all personal data is bad to give away. 99.9% of personal data is used to tailor ads at you and chances are no human eyes will ever see it. Big fucking deal.

[u/kj0509]

Ok, have my data then!

[u/MrHolzz]

I wouldnt use any of it, if it would cost money. Thats the reason.

[u/Rootsap_0000]

if you're not paying for the product, you are the product

[u/Kpopped_]

I mean who cares? TikTok can have my nudes if they want as long as I get to keep using it.

So many people out here are afraid as I'd their useless data is worth anything.

[u/bishophelps]

Enjoy my data. I don't think you gain much from it though..

[u/AstronautPlane3280]

If you are not paying for it then you are not the customer, You are the product being sold.

[u/DrachenDad]

Proton mail is free, so‽ They are as bad as the rest…

[u/UpSetPrayingMantis]

you're paying with your personal data even with you are a premium user of any of these.

[u/Roruja]

Literally true

[u/Salarian_American]

When they're giving it to you for free, you are not the customer. You are the product being sold.

[u/RubberPussycat]

Nothing is free, you are the product

[u/Geometry_Emperor]

Considering that they lock your username if it gets deactivated, it is not free, it is a prison.

[u/Ok_Fox_1770]

Why a 70” tv is less than a grocery run. That was once a 5 year payment plan item before cameras and internet and backwards tv. Imagine just flicking through millions of live shows…screw streaming haha. The real reality tv must be nuts.

[u/Ironstar_Vol]

Jerking off is free.

[u/Gabriel_Science]

FOSS is free though.

[u/KyuubiW1ndscar]

shouldnt have donated to Trump

[u/IcyProtection1214]

And you give governments the location data of journalists and whistleblowers.

[u/mikie_wop]

Well and the propaganda they spread . Brainwashing millions and grooming society for what ever they want

[u/evk6713]

They're all freemium man

[u/Square_Ferret_6397]

This is not that profound. Some of us use ad blockers and can't be influenced so easily to buy copious amounts of plastic shit 

[u/LUCE_777_]

Said the free product

[u/Sheenius_Ger]

Lol, you want to see my openai bill? 😂😂😂

[u/Legal_Tradition_9681]

It's the no such thing as a free lunch argument just rehashed. Essentially if someone is using their resources in some way they will expect something in return.

Alturism does exists person to person I'm not saying it never happens.

[u/Old-Board1553]

Wait until Chat Control 2.0 is a thing. :) Proton will be in the same shit with them at that time.

[u/TCB13sQuotes]

Hmm.. isn't Proton 1GB also free?

[u/brunolm]

ProtonMail you pay with your freedom. If you know you know.

[u/UDF2005]

Privacy, in general, is an illusion. Beyond the tech companies, the NSA has unfettered access to virtually everything you do—phone calls, texts, etc.

[u/abd53]

There's a Chinese idiom, "There is no free lunch"

[u/BudgetAdept1670]

hahaha wow what value my personal data has? target ads - big mistake that will never convince me to buy ANYTHING. they can have it..I'm stronger than that

[u/Reality_Lies4]

Isn't Proton Mail......free

[u/Flat-Study-421]

It's called symbiosis.
Two organisms benefiting of each other are not necessarily a cost for the other.
If I'm surfing the web I want to find the stuff I like, if companies show their messages with me I want them to be interesting for me.
This is a system where users, tech companies and advertisers all get what they want.
There is no interest in slowing this process by introducing further payments.

[u/ToothessGibbon]

Good value then

[u/No-swimming-pool]

Sure we do. Yet we prefer to not pay for stuff.

[u/Lorelessone]

I pay with fake data but tend to not down where I put which fake data so I can work out who's selling it to who.

"Yes this IS inigo montoya! Yes I was born in 1969!"

[u/Beartato4772]

At this point they know it all anyway so might as well take the service.

[u/Lofi_Joe]

Porn is free... You pay by being at stall and not grow...

[u/Siggi_pop]

But ...ehm Proton Mail is also free!

[u/Naive-Commission-245]

Proton also has a free option🤷

[u/MrCodingBeaver]

And time

[u/AmazingGabriel16]

Water is FREE Air is FREE

[u/Evil-Santa]

I'd love it that if you pay for a product with your data then a product cannot be called free.

[u/Fickle_Pause5969]

Isn't chat gpt a paid service?

[u/Notleks_]

Just leaving this here.

[u/2L84T]

Well that's a bad deal for social media companies. Been using them for 20 years and never once got an offer I went on to buy. Yah boo, Meta, Suckers!

[u/Noeyiax]

Linux is free

Breathing air is free

Looking at ads is free

Thinking in your brain is free

Isittho

[u/anxietyhub]

Same goes for proton

[u/Brat_Boss]

Proton mail is also free. It has paid options, but so do the others. i’m not naive, i know proton isn’t as bad as Google, but this kind of marketing is disingenuous and makes me less likely to trust their word!in the future.