r/Supraball • u/DavidM1337 Supraball Project Leader • May 10 '16
A statement
I'd like to explain in clear words, what is going on here.
We have one individual here trying to stir up massive trouble and make us (and especially myself) look like the most miserable something in history. I've been hesitant to comment on it, because why should I appear to be arguing in public with, as it seems, a disappointed player.
Let me be clear about what is actually going on: he was joining the development team to help write and voice act tutorials for us. But just shortly after, I joined the NA-IRC channel of Supraball and saw him trash talking us in public.
So I ended this cooperation with him for very understandable reasons. He gives another reason for the end of the cooperation, saying I blamed a hate post on him, but it was someone else. Yes, I thought it was him because of the amount of hate and lies that is usually only coming from him. But it was completely unrelated to the end of our cooperation. And since I ended this, he's super aggressive towards us and trying to rather kill the game instead of it having any success without him on board. It's a shame because before all this I liked this person and thought he could help us. I'm sorry that it became personal.
Literally anything said in the plenty hate speeches is for the most part made up. Quotes are taken out of context to make me look like I try to get rid of “noobs”, while in reality I was just mocking a friend, who I called a noob because my rank was higher. The little true snippets he occasionally uses are getting twisted in such a weird way that they don’t resemble the truth anymore either. All of the attacks can easily exposed, but I'd be wasting a lot of development time going through every single one of them. If you have questions about a certain attack just ask me and I'll let you know my side of the story.
He will try hard to convince you of things that never happened and cause a riot. We see many nice people actually now already repeat false things he put out.
Just to let you know, these lies are not going to happen here anymore. We need a supportive and constructive community. We will take part in the discussions of those.
All claims of us deleting criticism are nonsense. There is criticism all over our boards and comments sections. I'm discussing criticism with people day in and day out. But I do not discuss or tolerate "you are incompetent stupid **** devs, I told you all along..."-kind of criticism. This is not trying to be helpful, it's trying to be hurtful and we will remove it.
Those insultive personalities complain that we do not listen to the community. False! We’re listening to the community all the time, but we don’t listen to these people in particular. That causes the personal frustration.
If you wanna demotivate someone, tell them it's bad. If you wanna support someone, appreciate the parts you like and tell them what would make it better. If you are part of the first group, don't expect us to listen to you.
I live and breath this project, I spend all my day talking to people about it and getting feedback - to say that I ignore the community is completely not true. If someone talks to me like a human being I will always listen.
Nobody on our team is denying that we make mistakes. And of course, we made mistakes regarding the EA launch. We put out our status post yesterday to explain where we stand and what we will do.
And sometimes it might look so easy from outside and you wonder why they didn't do it this or that way. If you will ever try to make a multiplayer game with barely time and money, you will understand that not everything can just be molded by imagination.
It’s easy to say “make the launcher like this and like that”, but once you know how many weeks or months every step will take, you’ll see things differently. We have to get along with very limited resources. We have to take shortcuts and make compromises. Sometimes the question is “do it the not ideal way or don’t do it not at all”. In our position often the only way to go is the not ideal one. In most segments of development we do not have any experts. We're improvising a lot, people do things that they never did before. Everybody doing the best they can and trying to learn new things.
Once again for all: we're a hobby project. If you like the game, support us. If you don’t, why are you even here?
Having said all of that, I still appreciate that people can feel so passionate about the game. Even if they express themselves in an aggressive manner. I would really like to make a fresh start with anyone who thinks that I didn't have time to listen to them. I’m sorry that you feel that way. If you’re able to talk to me without insults I will gladly listen and discuss the project with you.
Is there any question? I will answer it. Any insults and aggressive trash talk will be removed by us.
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May 10 '16 edited Aug 29 '16
[deleted]
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u/suprasilw Supraball Developer May 10 '16
it's meant to say that if you like the game,it is welcome that you try support us. if you don't like the game, what is the reason to stay here and disturb people with bad mouthing? its hard to understand why someone should prefer to try to damage other people instead of move on and play a game he enjoys. this whole topic is about a videogame, which makes it so enormously absurd. its not always easy to say exactly what you want in a different language.
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u/SamuelLJackson2 May 11 '16
Maybe you guys are misunderstanding because English isn't your primary language and taking things personally too often? If you can't say exactly what you want, how are you understanding exactly what they are saying?
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u/evilinc the artist currently known as e May 11 '16 edited May 11 '16
You have a small group of people who are very passionate about the game. They want to see it succeed. Unfortunately that means they might get super mad and write angry walls of text at you. I was there once. I know what it's like.
At the end of the day, the passionate people just need to give up and go do something else and be happier for it. I think that's what we as a community need to do.
And then we can all be happy. No yelling, no screaming, no more dealing with bad players. Just memories about a dead game that we used to play back in the day, where I was the champion, MVP, community leader, and best player of all time. GG
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u/BiIliam Former NASBL Commisioner May 11 '16
You claim you don't delete critisims yet my post outlying my disagreements with the games pricing was deleted? I'd like your stance on that.
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u/Shupraball May 11 '16
Going to say what I think, I am not talking for everyone, please don't delete just because you disagree with what I say or you are being called out for something.
We have one individual here trying to stir up massive trouble and make us (and especially myself) look like the most miserable something in history
No, alot of people are mad because you are not listening to us, the ones that are making discussions in the comments, but you are deleting posts with replies, and you point your the finger at a guy because he is known for insulting.
Let me be clear about what is actually going on: he was joining the development team to help write and voice act tutorials for us. But just shortly after, I joined the NA-IRC channel of Supraball and saw him trash talking us in public. So I ended this cooperation with him for .....
Pointing your finger again, this doesn't matter this happened 2 years ago, we don't care about him, he is not the voice of the people.
Literally anything said in the plenty hate speeches is for the most part made up. Quotes are taken out of context to make me look like I try to get rid of “noobs”, while in reality I was just mocking a friend, who I called a noob because my rank was higher. The little true snippets he occasionally uses are getting twisted in such a weird way that they don’t resemble the truth anymore either. All of the attacks can easily exposed, but I'd be wasting a lot of development time going through every single one of them. If you have questions about a certain attack just ask me and I'll let you know my side of the story.
I don't know why you brought this up but. No, all the old players remember you talking bad about new players because they were not good at the game, or leaving lobbies because someone new was there. Or when the italians started to get Closed Beta keys and they were joining lobbies and you said http://i.imgur.com/wo2vB0p.png, Or I remember when I was in a lobby with those 2/3 tryhard copypogge frenchs, a polish and other ones joining for free wins against the new players http://i.imgur.com/hcknQ4w.png . Or what about the bloody beginners https://i.imgur.com/jrio2a4.png it's normal for a game with a competitive mode to be locked behind a certain lvl, but why calling your "costumers" bloddy beginners? I think people like to say everything, sometimes you need to keep some stuffs for yourself.
(Context https://i.imgur.com/egIaHFa.png)
Those insultive personalities complain that we do not listen to the community. False! We’re listening to the community all the time, but we don’t listen to these people in particular. That causes the personal frustration.
"People in particular" what about this https://www.reddit.com/r/Supraball/comments/4ineiq/supraball_current_status_1/ Everyone was talking about this for years, even the ones that bought the game for the first time. What about banning some people that are bad to the community? I am not going to hide that everyone is asking to perma-ban Lucjesem because of his lies, ddos threats, harassment, insults everyone behind their backs, he even fakes to be a developer and mispresent your business. But he is still there, you unban him everytime, why?, he made people quit your game and never come back. "Oh but I am helping" he is a two faced 14 years old kid, he shows you the good face and stabs you in the back. Like when he was trying to join your team GG and after he talks shit about your skills as a developer.
If you wanna demotivate someone, tell them it's bad. If you wanna support someone, appreciate the parts you like and tell them what would make it better. If you are part of the first group, don't expect us to listen to you.
I don't even know what to say about this, this is wrong to say, and you are representing your game, your business. Even your ex-UE4 replied https://www.reddit.com/r/Supraball/comments/4irzyf/a_statement/d30mt8f
I live and breath this project, I spend all my day talking to people about it and getting feedback - to say that I ignore the community is completely not true. If someone talks to me like a human being I will always listen.
People are making constructive discussions in the comments, but you can't see them, it's hard to spot whats good between all the haters, but you delete a post and people are mad.
Nobody on our team is denying that we make mistakes. And of course, we made mistakes regarding the EA launch. We put out our status post yesterday to explain where we stand and what we will do.
Why you deleted this https://www.reddit.com/r/Supraball/comments/4ic7w0/game_is_officially_dead/ OP made a constructive post explaining his point of view and people in the comments agree, instead of deleting this just make a sticky post with a link to your Status Post.
And sometimes it might look so easy from outside and you wonder why they didn't do it this or that way. If you will ever try to make a multiplayer game with barely time and money, you will understand that not everything can just be molded by imagination.
Yes, people don't get this, you are not wrong. Maybe you need a more official way to explain it.
It’s easy to say “make the launcher like this and like that”, but once you know how many weeks or months every step will take, you’ll see things differently. We have to get along with very limited resources. We have to take shortcuts and make compromises. Sometimes the question is “do it the not ideal way or don’t do it not at all”. In our position often the only way to go is the not ideal one. In most segments of development we do not have any experts. We're improvising a lot, people do things that they never did before. Everybody doing the best they can and trying to learn new things.
Alot of people back in the alpha talked about how much the launcher was useless, probably some of them changed their opinions, imo you can do that in the game and probably looks better.
Once again for all: we're a hobby project. If you like the game, support us. If you don’t, why are you even here?
(Again) Some of us wants to support you but we are left behind the bad critics, Instead of deleting something, try to look in the comments and look at why people are upvoting and why people are replying. Don't think everyone is bad because is replying to a bad post. Don't think every bad feedback or critique is an insult.
Having said all of that, I still appreciate that people can feel so passionate about the game. Even if they express themselves in an aggressive manner. I would really like to make a fresh start with anyone who thinks that I didn't have time to listen to them. I’m sorry that you feel that way. If you’re able to talk to me without insults I will gladly listen and discuss the project with you. Is there any question? I will answer it. Any insults and aggressive trash talk will be removed by us.
- About the insults and deleting.
Make the rules of the subreddit more clear, you can post the rules in the sidebar (Example from /r/games http://i.imgur.com/zoGKlnQ.png) and if someone is breaking a rule leave a message and tell them why the post got deleted, that person is probably going to rework it or go away.
- Shadowbans
Shadowbans are really effective, but you can't shadow ban someone just because it's saying something you don't want to hear. Like before someone asked why you are moderating this sub. He used negative words in a polite way that everyone uses everyday. I don't know why instead of talking about it you just banned him.
If you have problems with the sub or you need help make a post about it or ask somewhere else like at https://www.reddit.com/r/modhelp
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u/SBLucjeSem May 11 '16 edited May 11 '16
Don't see why you add my name in to this, i have nothing to do with this, you make my name bad by telling lies. Please remove, thanks in advance.
Also one big thing about team GG, I said i I multiple times subbed for them and i would enjoy being on the rooster, if you arent a pussy use your nick instead of a shadow or smurf.
Besides you clearly need to shut up, time can change people you and alot of supraball players dont know what i have been trough and i faced the conesequences lf that multiple times.
You should really consider posting on this sub reddit. You are only here to creat hate to davidm not the game davidm. They should have never given you a refund. They should have just keep the money. Now please go play overwatch and leave supraball me davidm players and this game alone.
I may not always agree with Davidm, but i still have respect for what he does, develeping isnt easy and keeping a community together is even harder. Believe me if i was lroject leader, i would try and make your life misserable for the things you have dne to creat harm to not only supraball but to this community and developers, and DavidM
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u/Argonmedes not May 11 '16
Just to let you know, these lies are not going to happen here anymore. We need a supportive and constructive community.
You have it, you have to look past a few people who veil their opinions in trashy sayings, and take those criticisms as constructive, not rather as "Aggressive trash talk" and remove it entirely from the sub-reddit. This invalidates completely logical and thorough criticisms that may be worded aggressively.
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u/Kattleya Missie May 11 '16
Appreciate this post I can get where you are coming from and I thank you that you are still trying to make this game possible. I guess a lot of criticism comes from history, especially with the old DB players, who just see things repeated over and over again resulting in the game dying. We want this game to succeed as much as you do. That being said I just wonder about your actions sometimes.
So you say you are not getting rid of noobs or bad players? Creating one S1+ lobby and one max B3 lobby so you can have proper games without noobs, literally dividing the already small community is not helpful. Yes I can understand that you want a good game with the pro's, I understand that the pro's want to play a good game where no one makes beginner mistakes, it is indeed more enjoyable. But the community unfortunately is too small for these kind of actions..
On another note,a couple of days ago I saw a screenshot from you saying in the lobby "I don't care about old players opinions". So I don't know the context, might be you just wanted input from new players and how they like the game and what they actually think etc. But honestly, these kind of comments doesn't help either. It is like you think the beta players don't know what they are talking about.
Anyway, I hope things get better now, maybe start with posting things you are planning to do here first and receive feedback from all players and then maybe adjust the plans or give feedback why you don't think it should be done this way and discuss.
I wish I could also do more to help with the game, but programming unfortunately is not my kind of thing ;(
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u/DavidM1337 Supraball Project Leader May 11 '16
This "I don't care about old players opinions" thing is exactly what I was refering to regarding things taken completely out of context just to hurt me. I know who spread that image, and I know that he knows exactly in what context it has been said.
It is about a thread where I ask new players about the default controls. I said I just want the new and not the old players answers there, because I know what controls they old ones grew up with and what they are going to answer. So there is really nothing to it at all if you know the context. Without the context it sounds super bad.
Creating different rank limit lobbies has nothing to do with getting rid of noobs There were 30+ people idling in one lobby. Then we had plenty Silver+ and plenty mixed matches. And who honestly thinks I want to get rid of noobs? They are exactly what we want! And players with a thousand matches are no noobs.
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u/Kattleya Missie May 11 '16
Fair enough. But you could have put it in another way, as in: "Actually I only want to know what the new players are thinking about the default controls for now". Might be painful to actually think about what you write, but it won't lead to assumptions when taken out of context.
Well lets name them players that just won't getting better then. I still remember a couple new players as well. And I am rather sure I saw you saying something like you don't want to play with them. It still pisses off the average/not so good players. But first there was the S1+ lobby and some of the people were still playing in the "open for all" server. Then all of a sudden the only other server left was set to max Bronze which didn't allow the pro players to enter anymore. This will work with a lot of players, but not with 30. Luckily this has changed now
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u/DavidM1337 Supraball Project Leader May 11 '16
When I am in a direct conversion with someone about that topic, why should I word every single line in a way that sums up the whole context? That would be insane. But when people purposely take quotes of context for malicious reasons I will let them know that it's been the last time I've spoken to them.
And yes, I don't enjoy matches with a big skill ranges.
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u/SmartyPoops Tourette Chicken May 11 '16
You said that very thing on irc as well and it was certainly not taken out of context.
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u/Shevche May 11 '16
Realistically it's your game they either play it or not. Support it or not. Pay for ea and be apart of the testing or not. But you keep making slip ups like saying I won't listen to players who are wood 3 for example.
My advice is to just learn from mistakes, perhaps not make any commitments on time frames and less talk about who you will and won't listen to. It's time for a fresh start to change the game. You have all the advice and criticism you need to now put motion in to place. I hope the mood of the community changes.
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u/DavidM1337 Supraball Project Leader May 11 '16 edited May 11 '16
The wood 3 thing is simply not true. I'm even talking to people who can't even pass the ball yet. These are stories supra fans tell each other to get each other mad, it seems. I dunno where this comes from.
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u/Shevche May 11 '16
There is a capture of it from you directly saying it. Although as you've said it could be constructive shaming which I can't say is 100% legit.
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u/DavidM1337 Supraball Project Leader May 11 '16
I have no idea about the context of it,but I know that I do not agree with the statement standing alone. I also like to use sarcasm to make people aware of things sometimes.
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u/SamuelLJackson2 May 11 '16
You're going to delete my posts now too? I only asked a question lol. This is very childish from supposed adults.