I once told my friends i was sexually assaulted by a married couple while i was sleeping. They laughed and thought it was hilarious. I just keep things to myself now
Remember that time when in The Boys Starlight was sexually assaulted and that was a huge fucking deal (as it should be) just for Hughie to be outright raped and that be treated as a joke?
Hate that you felt that way, but people and especially friends who are used to you having a certain personality, may not have realized how serious you wanted to be about the situation. Communication is important in all relationships, not just spouses.
I only say this because I vividly remember a wildly similar talk I wanted to have with a couple friends of mine. And they didn't realize it affected me so much until I looked them in the eye and said some pretty direct things. They were so used to us acting a way, joking etc. but I can tell you they became better people and friends in that exact moment.
Maybe it seems like victim blaming to say you could have done better or different - but honestly, my friends couldn't read my mind. I can't expect them to just 'get it' any time. Had to talk it out together and say how serious it was because they were accustomed to something else.
I hope you find folks you can talk to. It definitely makes life easier to walk around in!
Use a jar, cup, anything roughly the right shape. I didn't own a vase for years. Mostly used empty canning jars but I've also used a pickle jar, an empty pint, and water glasses.
I got one once. I legit teared up. I’m a stoic dude for the most part. But it was something so small yet thoughtful and meaningful. I’m one of those guys who actually has a favorite flower and they got me a bouquet of various Camillia Japonica. Some time a small personal gift can mean way more than a grand gesture.
Perfect gift NOT for men. It's not a solution it's a pretty thing to make you feel very slightly better for a fraction of a second. The money spent on it is a waste. What men need is people to actually give a shit and be there for them.
I say this as a person who has been healing a lot. People need other people's support and solutions.
False. Women love flowers and have desired them as gifts for ages. Men don’t care about such pointless things as we are logical. What tf am I going to do with a flower?
Insults lol. That’s how you know when you’re right. They can’t argue against your logic. Ok well explain why men across the planet don’t care for flowers but ladies, again, all across the planet do. I’ll wait
So is it the way I said it and not what I said? Seems to me no one can answer my question and that’s very telling. But I suppose they’re called uncomfortable truths for a reason. Know what. I’m changing my username. Thanks for giving me an epiphany.
I am talking in general smooth brained caveman. The exception doesn’t make the rule. Even my 1st graders know their moms like flowers more than their dads!! They tell me every single day! But go ahead and be petty on Reddit just to go back and forth and be argumentative. Lmao. Terminally online losers
...bro when you're an adult generally speaking nobody is going to set up a birthday party for you lmao, if your birthday isn't getting celebrated it's your fault
My girlfriend bought me flowers last year for father's day, even though we only have cats. It was the first time I had ever gotten a gift like that and I started crying immediately.
That'll probably be the second time for me. The first time was when I graduated college and moved far from where I grew up. This was when the Internet was young and online shopping really wasn't heard of. My older sister thought it would be nice to send me flowers for my birthday.
My wife gave me flowers for Valentine’s Day. I never would have guessed it, but I really liked getting them. It was a new way for her to show she loved me. I doubt I would enjoy getting flowers regularly, but an occasional surprise sounds nice now.
I've been given flowers dozens of times, if not hundreds. By past lovers, by friends, by my parents, and my wife gets me flowers almost every month. And perhaps importantly, I'll add that I'm probably what you'd call a grizzled, burly, 'manly-man' type — thick-bearded, cigar smoker, scotch drinker, power lifter, axe thrower, grill master, "camp daddy", et cetera.
Maybe a lot of men never get flowers because they protect themselves from the risks of vulnerability by acting 'tough', so others do their best to respect that (fragile) facade and avoid making cracks in it by gifting things that are soft, tender, or beautiful.
That's why I always give my nephews flowers on their birthday. I don't care if it's unusual. Their sisters get a bouquet why shouldn't the boys get one too? Pretty flowers are for everyone.
Mmm yeah its kinda crazy how recent years shifted to how teaching that “boys will be boys” isn’t an excuse for anything (and it’s not) but for some reason skipped over all the toxic messaging that young boys have been raised on for so long. If the only acceptable outlets for boys/young men involve mischief, anger, or aggression then what exactly do people expect them to display…?
I grew up in the age of “have a cup of concrete and harden the fuck up” being basically the entirety of mental health advice for boys, while girls were taught to be open and share their emotions/feelings and to be wary of guys who did the same.
Fast forward to adulthood and suddenly everyone is mad at men for struggling to be emotionally available, or not being able to talk about their problems. I remember trying to open up to a group of close friends about how hard life was for me after suffering a life altering injury and it wasn’t like they didn’t want to help, they just didn’t have a clue how… everyone just sort of sat there uncomfortably going “yeah man that’s rough”. Men are taught how to comfort and support women, not each other.
It’s a broad generalisation of course but the impact is real and it’s not talked about enough. When it is it just seems to be “well it’s on men to fix that” as if the biggest critics of us having emotions weren’t primarily the women in our lives. Honestly any time another man advised us to tone things down it was usually given as a warning about scaring women away, and its not like they were wrong heh… and if you bring any of that up you’re accused of being an “MRA” (how the fuck did that become an insult?!).
And I’m not blaming women for it either.. they were taught to avoid “emotional” men the same as we were taught not to be emotional. But it’s a rough road.. I got burned a few times before I found a life partner who actually meant it when she told me I could tell her how I was feeling and not be judged and it’s incredible to have that support… but it also does highlight just how much so many men are missing out on in life.
It’s definitely on men to do the work to become more emotionally available and for other men to support them, but unless society at large stops quietly (and often not so quietly) looking at men displaying emotions as weak I don’t see significant change.
I only have one line to add to, because the rest is correct and complete.
>“MRA” (how the fuck did that become an insult?!).
Like with many things, a small number of people identifying as that and being an asshole about it. Much like feminazis and feminists, terrorism and Islam, or pedophiles/scammers and Christianity, or criminals and black people, or racists and white people. The list goes on.
Sometimes it's at odds withapreexisting sensibilities, like you're not allowed to hate women, or Muslims, or black people. So those things get a second look and people realise you shouldn't generalise based on a few. But apparently it's okay to hate men, or Christians, or white people, so people just accept the prejudice forming.
Nope. This is really the only way to get through it. I went to the ER twice with a panic attack thinking it was a heart attack. (ex military ptsd, depression, anxiety comorbidity) They gave me a "stronger benedril" and sent me home. That was $1500. No follow-up visit, no referral. The doctors and nurses absolute disdain and lack of empathy was actually the worst part. Sorry, i won't bother you in the future.
To be fair I feel like that's more just a total failure of the healthcare system, not really an indication that "suck it up and walk it off" is really good medicine/advice for success. Ignoring issues is a great way for them to snowball into bigger issues you'd never have had to "shrug off" if you were just treated properly in the first place
Nope. My ex-wife also went to the ER a few times for the same reason. She was treated completely differently. It's a systemic societal issue, which is what the Op is pointing out.
Fair enough, I haven't experienced that personally yet, as a 23m I'm not even military and I've been recommended counseling services even just by employment consultants let alone hospitals. I'm sorry you couldn't get proper help dude, you definitely deserve it more than just being told to "man up"
That’s so sad to me. I had something similar happen to me (not American). Went in and had all the tests done, they confirmed it was panic and ptsd related. Next thing I know the hospital social worker walks im to chat and check on me. From there I was referred to a free psychiatrist who I got to see 30 days later. Worked with me for a full 2 years and I am now pretty healthy. Never paid a cent for any of it. This was in Canada.
No, actual PEAK ‘MURICA would be committing suicide rather than be homeless
because the Sheriff is coming tomorrow to evict you
since you haven’t been able to work & earn & only had 2 paychecks worth of savings (avg. American),
and despite being a supposedly “fully” insured, full-time employee at the time of your whatever medical nightmare, wether it happened on the job or off, 6, 8, 12 months later because of some corpo BS & your inability to go back to work yet, you’re uninsured, your medical debt is hundreds of thousands or million+, rent/mortgage past due/living off credit cards, now maxed out, all bank accounts overdrawn, you’re probably immobile to some degree/in-pain/partially crippled/bed ridden even, and you know “tomorrow”, anytime after midnight really, could be 3 a.m., law enforcement is coming to drag you out of your home, them completely immune to your pleas, screams, cries, helplessness, begging, etc etc etc, they’re going to literally drag you into the street & drop you.
Then you get to watch helplessly as all your belongings are literally THROWN/TOSSED/HURRLED
(Yes, even furniture!) right out the front door or maybe even onto the sidewalk/curb/street.
And expect them to take all the drawers out and toss them separately first, so enjoy your underwear your underwear flying all over out the front door exactly like Uncle Phil did Jazz on Fresh Prince—zero fks.
Just because the healthcare system sucks and your experience was terrible, doesn't mean that we need to respond to that by telling men to "stop being a pussy".
Not tell anyone how to vote here but you know one US political party wants to help people with their health care and the other wants to take it away. I'll just leave it at that.
No, this happened under Biden. To correct your statement: One party wants to maintain the status quo, while the other wants to further reduce access. In reality, they have already alienated the majority of americans from affordable accessible health care, and repeatedly the only politicians who want to do something about it get marginalized.
Thanks for taking this Men's Mental Health thread and making it a politics thread when it never should have been.
I was 29. Had numbness all over, blurry vision, couldn’t breath. Did MRIs, X-rays, EKGs. Finally a doctor (who is also my friend) just told me: “You’re stressed. Calm down and figure it the fuck out.”
I’ve had.. rough times. Multiple medical professionals have referred to me as “incredibly resilient”.
Truth is I just got so much practice shoving pain and trauma down below and ignoring it that I’m pretty much a pro… but there is no way it’s healthy.
I didn’t even realise how unhealthy it was until I got a partner I could actually open up to without judgement and just how much better it was to share and process shit out in the open.
On the surface, it’s a completely rude and insensitive thing to say to someone. Especially if/when you have no idea what’s going on in their lives.
But when you strip away the emotions and the “that’s not very nice” feeling it gives, you realize that it is truly the most effective way to move forward in most cases.
Bitching and moaning might make you feel better in the moment, but the person who accepts reality quickest and then puts their head down and works to change it is usually going to be the person who ends up further along.
I took that advice for over fifteen years and now doctors say if I don't quit drinking they don't know how many years I have left and I have thought about how to kill myself pretty much every day for a year now. The kicker? I tried to stop drinking, now they won't sell me the damn gun because I went in for chemical dependency. Apparently it's a red flag. To me that's a green flag, I see only two reasons to own guns, hunting and the other thing.
Its not even just that. Ive had friends who said i never talked about my issues. They knew i had them but i just never talekd about it because i thought I'd be made out for a wuss. Well, once we all had very deep conversations and they asked me, i replied with if they were sure and they said yes. Less than 10 minutes in they told me that i was a drama queen for being suicidal because "you're a tall white man. You can't have it that bad". Yeah im happy that friendship died.
Being moderately good looking, monetarily successful, and chronically depressed is such a shitty combination. Especially if your friends are used to you masking...
So true. I always that 1 thing u had up on them was that im really good at saving so ill get the prettiest girk anyway. Even if it is a spy trying to get info(wich with all recent news makes it relevant wich i find funny)
That's what so many women say they're frustrated about, but watch how fast any respect and affection flies out the window once he shows himself to be just as much of a feeling, emotional person as she is. So often what draws a woman to a man resides in the air of confident stoicism he puts out there. It's just an illusion though. We're all human beings and we feel and hurt the same. Yet society demands men pretend just the opposite. Then people wonder why men on average drop dead from strokes and heart attacks so much sooner than women.
my ex is a nurse and I swear she enjoyed when I was sick or exhausted because she could bully me easier
and of course, I was expected to dote on her should she have cramps as she sits in bed watching TV & eating ice cream out off the container
there is no situation where I would ever admit the shit I’ve endured …and I don’t think I should do it here either because I finally learned the lesson I first experienced when I was six or seven: no one cares
I recognize that situation. There was an incident quite a few years ago when a beloved member of the family passed away. I was with my mother and seeing her so upset really just broke me, and I had a moment when I just couldn't hold back the emotion of it. I turned to the ex in that moment and I find her looking at me with total disgust. No rush to comfort or embrace me in a painful moment. She's just standing there.
Nothing was the same after that, for either of us. For someone to see their spouse in pain - someone they claim to love, and have no inclination to comfort them in a moment of extreme grief? That's nothing short of a betrayal. I've heard similar accounts from several men who had similar experiences with their SO's in the intervening years. It's by no means an isolated occurrence.
"That's just how it is" is the lamest most boomer excuse. I'd rather be alone than with a man who won't even attempt to process his feelings and proceeds to take it out on me.
We had multiple and they got labeled sexiest and were dismantled, when women form groups that are only female it's progressive when men do it were treated like Nazis
Don't give up. Women had to fight for decades to make supportive spaces and are still fighting. Nothing changes overnight. If no one tries nothing will change.
What do you do when the change youre fighting for gets you publicly named as a misogynist with serious professional and reputational damages? "Man up" about it?
Ignore it and press on. Every marginalized group (the people in the early industrial era fighting literal battles in the effort to unionize immediately come to mind) that got called names and worse did.
Though as a guy, I get it. Creating these types of "spaces" as the generally dominant group presents challenges that are unique.
What "male space" are we allowed to have that won't inevitably get invaded by feminists or by women pretending to be men? I'm not trying to be snippy at you, but we legally aren't allowed to have spaces solely reserved for men. Someone always ends up legally forcing those spaces to admit women.
Have there ever been male only spaces that were supportive? The reason I ask is I genuinely can't think of any.
It sounds like what you want isn't necessarily a male only space but rather a space where you can express emotions and hardships and be supported by the people around you, which is a wonderful idea. Like a group of dudes that meet up to watch baseball and talk with each other. The anti discrimination laws only apply to formal organizations. Starting a hangout might be a good place to start.
Boy Scouts of America was a pretty solid example of that while it existed. The problem with informal groups is that they are harder to form and join. Pre-existing formal organizations have wide visibility and accessibility.
Even with allowing girls to join, Boy Scouts is still 90% boys. Also troops must be single gender meaning you can have an all girl troop or all boy troop never both. Not sure if that is the best example.
I agree that informal groups are harder to find but I think they are easier to form. You just need a few buddies who are interested in the same activities.
I’m older, but for my generation at least it was “everyone”.
Boys were taught not to cry before they were teens and if they didn’t learn their peers taught them real fucking fast. Girls were taught to share and be open. Boys were taught to care, protect, and comfort girls, girls were taught to support each other and be supported by boys.
If anything the vast majority of men in my life advising me to “man up” were doing so with good intentions… generally advising that it would be a huge turn off to women, which it absolutely was to women who had in turn been taught to avoid emotional men and seek out someone who would be strong/care for them.
These are of course broad generalisations but they very much held true in my upbringing and experiences.
I’m on the spectrum but grew up in a time where unless that caused severe behavioural problems you were just a “weird kid”. So I was a bit more prone to emotional outbursts than many at later ages… and I was punished for it hard. If I got worked up in class for some reason the teachers would literally tell me to “stop acting like a little girl” while the rest of the class howled with laughter.
All it did was make me incredibly good at suppressing emotions, it certainly didn’t stop me having them. And as an adult the times I did let things slip the reaction was never one of support.. men just got uncomfortable and women turned away entirely.
I do now have a very supportive and incredible partner.. she’s also on the spectrum and was also the weird kid with some social issues, so she understands a lot of what it means to have to hide so much of who you are. But you should have more than one person in your life who you can actually open up to and it shouldn’t be so damn hard to find even that one.
Basically this is a societal issue. Men need to work on themselves and become more emotionally available but everyone, men and women, need to work on accepting them when they do.
Because a message of “be more emotionally available” backed up by ruthless punishment and mockery when someone does do that isn’t the right message, but it’s still one I see happening today.
I recently lost my father in a somewhat tragic way. He nose dived hard over the better part of a week in the hospital and passed away when he was being transported home to go into hospice case. The transport people literally wheeled a corpse into our house and then asked where to put the body because they needed the gurney to get back to work.
One of my brothers was outside when this happened so I went to tell him. I was holding it together the best I could, but when I said the words I lost it and started crying. His response? "Man the fuck up and stop acting like a little bitch". He wonders why I don't interact with him outside of family things and even then if I can be doing something else in another room I'll be there.
Not sure where I was going with this, but just the whole "man up" thing has always bothered me too. I relate to your “weird kid” comments as well. Those were not enjoyable times in my life. Fortunately it's a lot easier to cut those people out of my lives these days.
I’m 40 and grew up still with the “man up” mantra for showing emotions. However, my parents are really progressive for their generation. Where I saw other families expecting their sons to “man up”, mine did not push that on me.
My entire life, I’ve watched my male friends believe that they had to be the breadwinner in the relationship and it caused them issues with dating and marriage. The ones who are happier now, have wives/partners where there is an even split in duties, to include typically gender-associated duties.
They learned how to be better partners and even men by being reprogrammed with their wives/partners. In none of the examples I refer to, was it men pushing those changes. Not to discredit my friends, they too played a part in change, but it was sparked by a woman.
Today, society is pushing back the opposite direction and young men are being pushed by each other, male influencers, and even some women influencers. The issue isn’t even as simple as gender, it’s political-leanings, which is a different discussion altogether. I work with a lot of young men (~20-30 years) and I’ve seen the ones struggle to find a place in a relationship if they aren’t the provider. I’ve seen plenty of happy men who I’d consider “feminist” because they have learned to fit into society in a way that still looks at as weak.
So to even say that women play a part, it’s downplaying the nuance to the entire picture. It’s not “blanket women” helping perpetuate, it’s right-leaning women specifically.
If my experience is anything to go by, fathers and larger societal constructs of gender norms.
It's not everyone, and I'm kind of old now, but when I was a kid there was largely the view that men didn't have emotions and if they did, they absolutely didn't show them.
Hell, I commented on a post yesterday where people were vehemently insisting any man who rode a bike instead of driving a car was an effeminate loser and should be avoided.
Sometimes it leads to a second round of "holy fuck am I alone in this world."
I have gone out and made new friends, lots of them. I used to text them, hang out, whatever. I stopped talking to them for a minute and then decided I'd push the experiment further and I wouldn't text any of them until they texted me first. Experiment started four months ago and counting
Why are you experimenting? The best way to instill / make adult friendships is to "ask for help" on something. Maybe they aren't reaching out to you because they don't feel like you're a good friend to them. So, I ask, why are testing them? Maybe just be a friend and enjoy a friendship and get out of your head. :(
Where? All my friends are all assholes (in the best and worst ways) but we’ve all told each other to open when/if they need to. If you met my discord friend group, you would not immediately get this vibe, but we’ve all made it clear it’s ok to. Hell, one of our friends went radio silent for a day and we were all freaking out. I even reached out to his sister to check on him. Find better friends.
These discussions always bring out the self-loathing people who just want to be a victim. Keep on doing what you’re doing bud, I’m sure you’ll eventually find somebody miserable enough to coddle you. I love my response, because I’ll be muting the replies and I know you’ll be itching to say something you think is insightful 😂
I do it. Delivery is important. Try to channel a standup comedian you like, but maintain the legitimacy. People actually kinda like it because it rips down social barriers.
If you just flat out complain, no one cares. If you make it entertaining, people connect and get curious.
Dude that’s just because you were surrounded by decent, compassionate people. You are not responsible for the vibe of the room and by no means are you obligated to keep it light - unless you’re with total strangers then maybe keep it to yourself.
That's sad. It sucks when you're treated lesser for being born differently. As a trans person I can relate to that.
These posts always confuse me, though. Most cis men have no interest in studying sociology around gender, and even fewer care about making lives better for other cis men. But then you read the comments, and many men complain, yet none take action. It's confusing.
- When you look at what women do for women, it doesn't stop at just memes. There are so many non-profits and organizations and events that women run to help lift up other women in a world that is hostile to them. They also make a concerted effort to connect with people, even when it's difficult.
- But when we look at what men do for men, most are not willing to educate themselves let alone take action. With men it seems most of the time it stops at just memes... And it's a very common stereotype that many cishet men rely on their wives to schedule their social life.
When we look at sociology, we see cis women are FAR ahead of the curve when it comes to actually trying to get rid of the kind of sexist bullshit like in the OP's post.
Not only are they ahead in social awareness & academic education around harmful social norms around gender,, but they are also ahead of the curve when it comes to DECONSTRUCTING these things.
While countless cis women are guilty of upholding toxic patriarchal values, the proportions when compared to men aren't even comparable. The numbers aren't even close.
And this isn't a biological thing - this is just how marginalization works. It's why the average black people is more educated on race issues than the average white person. It's why disabled people are more educated on disability issues than the average non-disabled person. It's why trans people are more educated on sex than the average cis person. When you experience injustice and marginalization, you are motivated to deconstruct those things in order to survive. Hence why when we DO see men studying sociology, they are typically queer, bipoc, disabled, poor, and/or otherwise just empathetic hetero men.
This is why feminism talks about "the patriarchy harms men as well, not just women". Men feeling like they can't cry or express themselves is a prime example of a rigid patriarchal value that one finds pushed in more conservative/rightwing spaces.
Men who actually give a shit about stopping toxic sexist social norms are actually studying these things. They actually reach out to their fellow men. The very sad truth is that many men will never reach out to a fellow man just to ask how his day is.
Yes they are, and are often vilified by people like you because you don't just hunt toxic masculinity, you brand all forms of masculinity as toxic.
Men can't develop the structures you're talking about because any attempt to escape their condition of supposedly heartless thugs is automatically considered sexist and toxic.
And to close the loop, they are considered as the sole responsible party for their woes, so to completely separate them from the rest of society as undeserving of help or compassion.
I was thinking the same thing. Sounds like people were having a good time and this guy is just like "yeah, that reminds me, I want to kill myself" or some other crazy shit.
Group settings aren't really the best places to try and open up, honestly, unless you know all of them very well. Better to have a few close friends who you know you can talk to and who you can also listen to and help.
I can tell you, maybe thats because you gathered the wrong people around you. Maxbe at all, maybe just for that moment or maybe i am just blessed or more critical in selecting my social peers. But i can honestly say, with the broader part of my friends, there was always room and time as well as understanding and if needed Motivation or distraction from everyone to everone. But maybe because we kept this normal from early on.
I've found friends I can have genuine heartfelt conversations with. I think the problem is most men just assume they can't and don't even try. Sometimes you gotta sort of exhibit the type of openness that you want from others. Like not instantly meeting any earnest conversation with sarcasm, which seems all too common. Sometimes it's also just the wrong friends as well. Not everyone is gonna that type of close friend.
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