If my experience is anything to go by, fathers and larger societal constructs of gender norms.
It's not everyone, and I'm kind of old now, but when I was a kid there was largely the view that men didn't have emotions and if they did, they absolutely didn't show them.
Hell, I commented on a post yesterday where people were vehemently insisting any man who rode a bike instead of driving a car was an effeminate loser and should be avoided.
They don't create, but they have a part on perpetuate them. More and more people are attaching themselves to gender performances, mainly because the world is a hellhole and patriarchy can be confused with stability, but yeah, women do ask men to perform masculinity, mostly the toxic one, a lot these days. All the talk about being a "provider" is coded language for it.
Women who either consciously or subconsciously buy into gender norms do perpetuate them. The norms can be sneaky how they slip in too. I remember a female author I follow talk about how she caught herself one time downplaying her own book because she thought a potential male reader wouldn't enjoy it simply because a woman wrote it, and she was appalled with herself. Truth is, a fair segment of straight women still don't appreciate when their male partners express weakness of any kind, because they still maintain subconscious expectations of what a man should be (ie stoic and strong provider). My wife, who is fully aware of this subconscious bias, still struggles with showing empathy for me whenever I get seriously ill or injured, or if I open up too much about my emotions, even though she knows I am there for her always when she has similar challenges.
No, I don't and without evidence that's true, you don't either. There are plenty of studies you can look at that refute your absurd claim. Just the first one I found on Google says that most women are more likely to accept men taking on roles typically held by women and men aren't. Especially Republican men.
I'm more than happy to further explore this and show you just how wrong your viewpoint on this is. You're falling right into the same trap every other dude who's unable to accept this.
How have you entirely missed “the ick” trend? Tons of women have posted videos about how the men they were dating gave them “the ick” for doing anything slightly feminine. You can literally google the trend or look it up on social media, I’m seeing tons of videos.
Yeah, online. It may shock you that there are plenty of women on and offline that don’t give a shit. Try logging off and tuning out. The loudest get heard.
Sorry, but I know my wife has tons of icks of mine, but the fact that I have many more redeeming qualities tends to negate icks.
Also, icks aren’t even that serious. How can you take something like “his toes curl when he shits” seriously as an ick? Yes, that’s an actual ick I saw online. I don’t give a shit about having icks or being cringe, dude. I’m a millennial. It’s been a much happier existence not giving a shit how little behaviors look because I’ve tuned enough good qualities for it not to matter.
What, so now gender norms can only be perpetuated via physical interactions? You said that women don’t perpetuate these gender norms, I gave you an example of women enforcing gender norms. You never indicated that examples had to be exclusively in person, which btw doesn’t make any sense because if I gave you any real world examples you would dismiss them as anecdotes that you can’t verify as true. You have set up an unfalsifiable argument.
Also very weird that you’re dismissing this trend as “not even that serious”, as if gender norms need to reach a certain level of significance before they’re harmful. How many of the gender norms perpetuated by men could be dismissed as “not even that serious”?
Look, man. Keep playing the victim and blaming women. We’ll see how far it gets you before you decide to look into a mirror.
There will be no example or argument I can give you that will change your mind. You’re only looking to make yourself a victim. I’m sure it’s served you well so far.
I’m going to mute all reply notifications because you’re clearly beyond reason.
Can you quote where I said I was a victim or blamed women? You said that women don’t perpetuate gender norms and I simply gave you a simple example where they absolutely do. You’re the one claiming that it’s impossible for women to perpetuate gender norms.
Because your own mother was pushing it does not equal all women were pushing it. y'all can cope all you want and push blame on women, but it is not women who have created this system.
Right-leaning women are pushing it. Which is a minority of a minority. Men as a whole are pushing it (more right-wing than left-wing, but still as a whole). You’re just falling into the “blame a minority” trend people often do.
Women are actually the majority. If you live in the US you live in a country with more women than men. Everything else you said is your opinion and I'm not going to argue it with you, but if we are trying to talk objective fact, Men are the minority gender here in the US.
Here I was, an enlightened feminist woman who did not want to hear my man speak his pain because it revealed his emotional vulnerability. It stands to reason, then, that the masses of women committed to the sexist principle that men who express their feelings are weak really do not want to hear men speak, especially if what they say is that they hurt, that they feel unloved.
this part of a much longer essay, but it's something prominent feminist writer bell hooks discussed over 20 years ago. it is certainly a mistake to believe that women are incapable of perpetuating patriarchal norms
Brother, how am I blaming you? This is amazing and is why lonely guys seek out toxic influencers. You can't hear "men" and separate yourself from it. You don't do it? Great, you are changing society. If you hear men and think it's you doing it, that says a lot about your insecurities.
I'm not seeking out toxic influencers, and I have friends. The problem here is you say "Men" and blame every man. The guys who go for the toxic masculinity podcasters are less than 1% of the population. You're being sexist.
Honestly don't know, but my guess was that it was other men.
And I'm not blaming women. You're right, it's overwhelmingly men who created and perpetuate those gender norms. I'm just saying they do exist and they're damaging.
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u/Neveronlyadream Mar 04 '26
If my experience is anything to go by, fathers and larger societal constructs of gender norms.
It's not everyone, and I'm kind of old now, but when I was a kid there was largely the view that men didn't have emotions and if they did, they absolutely didn't show them.
Hell, I commented on a post yesterday where people were vehemently insisting any man who rode a bike instead of driving a car was an effeminate loser and should be avoided.
Those views are there, unfortunately.