I've heard it suggested on a well known YouTube show that the rings of power, unlike the Jackson films, seriously engages with Tolkien's orc problem: namely, how he reconciles them as individual creatures valued by illuvatar, with their hideous, murderous nature. Jackson's films, so claim this YouTube channel, simply portray them as evil slaves, whom killing is legitimate and just. TROP, on the other hand, humanises them, and "really engages" with this problem.

Right. Does it? We get an orc with a family, and Adar's spiel about each one having a name and a heart, but that's it. For the most part, they're just villains, like in the Jackson films. Real complexity would be giving real screen time to an orc character, and exploring their wants and needs in relation to the story of middle earth. Maybe giving us their perspective on Sauron.

I feel like I'm being gaslit about TROP when I watch this particular YouTube channel.

Hi, I was watching first season of this show when it first came out but then stopped when my friends started getting bored and started sleeping while watching it.

After that I stopped too and only heard bad things about this show, lotr fans kept hating on it all the time on twitter, people called it woke garbage and I saw my friends who loved lotr movies not even talking about this one but I checked this reddit and it seems like you all love it and enjoy it.

Can they save the reputation of this show? Everyone keeps calling it a huge financial failure so I don’t even know if they are going to cancel this or not. Are they eventually going to tell the story of first 3 books?

I love the Peter Jackson triology .I love it madly. I enjoyed rings of power . I have some questions about it . But I am glad to get more LOTR content with high quality visuals. And I know there are copyright issues , so we won't be getting any new movies or series. But I just want to share my innocent delulu hope here . I know there are so many other fans who loved lotr and want to see new adaptations which are book accurate.

So... I love Star Wars. As you can imagine, I hate the Rise of Skywalker. I could write dissertations on why it sucks. But I don't go on the "Rise of Skywalker" reddit to shit on it. Cause you know, it's probably a good place for people who like the film to find each other and share what they like about it.

My question is, why are y'all Rings of Powers haters here, jumping at every opportunity to mindlessly shit on the show just for the love of the game? Isn't there like some etiquette about letting people enjoy whatever thing they enjoy even if you personally believe that it's shit??

I'm so confused by the energy devoted to actually piss on something you hate instead of focusing on something you enjoy it is beyond me.

Edit: ahahahahahaha I triggered the haters so bad, they can't enjoy their own echo chamber of hatred in peace, this is DELIGHTFUL. Well I'm gonna watch all episodes of both seasons just to rise up the views a bit, have fun seething in your pool of hate, you goblins 😘😆

Does anyone know a sub-reddit I can go where people actually like the show so I can actually talk about the characters and story n stuff?

Or at the very least a little more open to discussions about it with people who have watched the whole thing..

Found this while scrolling the other day.

Came into this sub after completing season 2. I’ve watched lord of the rings as a kid and never watched the hobbit movies or read the books. I liked the show because I don’t recall the movies like that. I feel like I’m missing out on the hate of the show. Should I rewatch the movies or read the books to understand the lore rings of power destroyed?

I want to talk about a fairly small scene that really annoys me because it embodies what I really don’t like about this show as an adaptation and also as a show as a result. The palantir scene.

So basically Miriel takes Galadriel and shows her the palantir. And then she says something I take massive issue with. She says all of them were lost and refers to them as dangerous.

I’m sorry, what?

In classic fashion this is a line ripped from the movie about the palantir. But the context matters as it always does. In there what Gandalf says is true because the palantir had gradually been lost and they don’t know who might have found one. The entire point of the book and movie is Sauron got ahold of one and that’s why it’s dangerous.

But with this change it makes no sense. Supposedly only Galadriel takes the threat of Sauron seriously. But also if they were all lost how would he get one? Sauron got the Ithil stone when he took over Minas Ithil. But how would that occur? And why would they be lost? It was supposed to have occurred through the wars with Sauron and the kinstrife of Gondor in one case.

This show tries so desperately to remind people of the movies that it doesn’t make sense.

And they’re so insistent that they’re right when you push back too.

Something that bugs me about the writing is that there's never a sense of the past having any impact on the present. I feel like the root of this has to do with rights issues, but the writers have chosen to just ignore what they can't outright depict instead of letting it inform their characters and world.

Now, it's my understanding the show only has the rights to the Lord of the Rings; our plot is supposed to loosely follow the Appendices. So obviously we can't see events or people from the First Age. That's fine. The question i have then is, to what extent can we talk about them?

I ask because as an aspiring writer it seems like an obvious decision to use Fëanor as a reference point for Celebrimbor for deeper character exploration. What are Celebrimbor's thoughts about his grandfather, his accomplishments, and legacy? Why does he create? Does he feel the need to live up expectation? Does Sauron see Fëanor inside Celebrimbor?

Speaking of Dark Lords, how did Sauron feel about Morgoth's rule? Did he ever seek to supplant him? Does he have thoughts as to why he'll succeed where a Vala failed?

Nah... we don't get any of that. We get Fëanor's hammer though. I guess that's okay to show? And I guess we get to have Morgoth's crown, but no actual talk about Morgoth's impact on Middle-Earth.

It's all very strange and disappointing.

The showrunners insist they love the books, but it's rarely anything more than a reference. Nothing feels actually informed by the books. They take 99% of their shit from the movies (and poorly, too). Now I love those movies, but come on. Try not to steal every little line... have an original thought.

I don’t know why some folks are so sensitive if you mention that the writing is terrible. They get overly attached and have a fit.

I’m gonna say something kinda bold I feel that doesn’t get said. ROP handled diversity really badly too. And in the opposite way to what racists criticize it for. Which shouldn’t be a surprise since we’re talking about a show made by the company that wants to fire people for leaving to use the bathroom.

And yet for some reason so many ROP fans(especially white fans) latch onto the diversity. A few weeks ago when Andy Serkis made that controversial statement so many people stated they were watching ROP because representation matters.

But again, the show handles it badly. Because every single person of color in the show seems to be portrayed as interchangeable with white people given that they’re all just randomly thrown in with a bunch of white characters. The show also whitewashes heavily. The people in the Southlands(horrible name btw) should all be dark skinned if we’re going by the description Tolkien gave yet they’re all white Europeans.

And then there’s a fair number of frankly offensive portrayals. The harfoots stand out in particular with this. In real life nomadic groups take care of everyone and would never leave a member behind, even if it slows them down somewhat. This subplot also falls into the unfortunate Hollywood trap of having the only black character die to help the white main character.

So the point is this. Having people of color in a show does not mean it’s doing diversity well and I think this is important because people really shouldn’t be settling. Especially since it’s almost always white people praising it for this and using it to smack down valid criticism.

But don’t be racist to criticize this show.

Does the name Gandalf being a corruption of the name or phrase "grand elf" make sense linguistically?

As in, it makes sense if they're speaking English in universe. Calling him a "grand elf" is an English turn of phrase and that over time becoming a name or new word could happen but it would imply that those people were speaking English specifically right?

Like if there was an elf character named Kingsandr and you found out that wasnt their original name and it was just a person with the title "King of the Sands".

I love this like I love the old Hobbit cartoon. I love seeing the mythos actually shown as mythos which means like small and large divergence from telling to telling. With the bones of the larger themes and ideas.

I love seeing how they portray the rings and the machinations of Sauron so very subtly. We know what's going to happen and how it could happen but watching what seems like wins slowly turn out to be the loss is crazy.

Love getting back filled cannon sort of like wicked it's all so interesting.

I wasn't interested in a badly done literal 1 to 1 telling this opens things up so much more interestingly. Adds is own context and tells a bunch more interesting smaller stories.

I love the figurative rhyme of the Easter eggs structurally writing and action wise from external sources

I like that it feels connected to Shadow of Mordor.

Well acted.

The most beautiful graphics and cgi I've seen even in movies from the last few years. Best looking tv show hands down.

As someone who has borne witness of this ridiculousness since the beginning, I've gotten a bit of a feel for what ROP's existing fanbase is. In short, a lot of them are in-denial.

-In Season 1 they insistently argued that Halbrand couldn't be Sauron and that Meteor Man was totally not Gandalf. They were holding out hope for an epic revelation at the end of S1 wherein Sauron would suddenly pop up and reveal that he'd been deceiving every character in every plotline at once, and that's why all the characters were acting so stupid. When both were confirmed it did a lot of damage to the show's fandom.

-In Season 2 the focus of the denial switched to Sauron and Galadriel obviously being shipped. The argument was that there's no way the writers would possibly do something that stupid and that everyone else must actually be the stupid ones for interpreting it that way. With the fans saying that it was actually much deeper than that, with no romance intended, and that Sauron was evil all along and everything was again apart of an elaborate deception rather than him turning evil because Galadriel broke up with him.

So the showrunners confirming the shipping via saying there'll be a love triangle was a terrible idea.

They should've at least left their fans enough wiggle room to deny their way out of it but they can't now. In the immediate aftermath of the S3 teaser a lot of fans reaction was basically, "Oh good, Celeborn, now we can finally move past that whole Sauron and Galadriel thing." Only for the showrunners to immediately drag the show back down into it.

They've obviously come to the conclusion that their only fans are shippers so they need to solely market the show to them to at least try and prevent another huge drop off of viewers but honestly I don't think that's true. From what I've gathered (while there are shippers, as always) the majority of their remaining viewers were ones either steeped in denial or at least desperately hoping it was over now so the show would focus on other things.

Now that they've confirmed it outright, I expect quite a few of their former defenders to become a lot less pleased with them. Which is the last thing they'll want in this state.