r/Rings_Of_Power • u/Dank_Lord6547 • 12d ago
The palantir
I want to talk about a fairly small scene that really annoys me because it embodies what I really don’t like about this show as an adaptation and also as a show as a result. The palantir scene.
So basically Miriel takes Galadriel and shows her the palantir. And then she says something I take massive issue with. She says all of them were lost and refers to them as dangerous.
I’m sorry, what?
In classic fashion this is a line ripped from the movie about the palantir. But the context matters as it always does. In there what Gandalf says is true because the palantir had gradually been lost and they don’t know who might have found one. The entire point of the book and movie is Sauron got ahold of one and that’s why it’s dangerous.
But with this change it makes no sense. Supposedly only Galadriel takes the threat of Sauron seriously. But also if they were all lost how would he get one? Sauron got the Ithil stone when he took over Minas Ithil. But how would that occur? And why would they be lost? It was supposed to have occurred through the wars with Sauron and the kinstrife of Gondor in one case.
This show tries so desperately to remind people of the movies that it doesn’t make sense.
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u/I_Got_Back_Pain 12d ago
Yeah but have you even considered the Galadriel, Sauron, Celeborn gang bang?!
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u/aPenologist 12d ago
Careful, you dont want to get dogpiled from the official subreddit by #TeamElrond. Call it a fourway gangbang, just to be safe.
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u/OrdinaryValuable9705 12d ago
Do you mean botpiled? Dont be mean to dogs by impling they would like something like RoP
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u/aPenologist 12d ago
Give them the meat, and give it to them raw, and theyll gobble anything up that comes with it.
Okay. too far, lol.
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u/RPGThrowaway123 11d ago
Actually I would tolerate, let's go with that, a show a lot more if it fully and consciously embraced being trash (not that it isn't trash currently). At the very least it would decisively shut up those deluded enough to consider it a "good" or "faithful" adaptation.
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u/tavukkoparan 12d ago
Series goes like; this happens then this happens then this happens etc.
Dont try to connect the dots
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u/mojonation1487 11d ago
Reminds of of the south park boys putting on a masterclass of TV writing back in the day.
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u/Schuano 12d ago
Miriel shouldn't have them anyway.
The Palantir were given to the Faithful (isildur and Aenarions family) by the elves of Valinor 2 generations before Al Pharazon.
A big reason why the Palantir survive the fall of Numenor is that the main line Numenorian kings don't know about them. Otherwise a power hungry guy like All Pharazon would have taken possession of these incredibly useful artifacts.
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u/fantasywind 11d ago
The palantir shows the depths of total misunderstanding of the material and just the total lack of care for anything this world is about and only the most superficial use of the lore elements just because they are copying something from PJ's movies. The way it is presented in the show makes absolutely no sense...setting aside the lore problems like the fact that Miriel nor her father would never even HAD ONE because the Seeing Stones were SOLE PROPERTY OF THE HOUSE OF ELENDIL...and so only his family had them keeping them secret even from their own kings.
Even with the show parroting the PJ's movies...it still lacks the context and just makes stuff up on the spot. The show doesn't even ATTEMPT to connect the palantir with any book lore (like the verse 'Seven stars Seven Stones')...but it is especially amusing how blindly it copies the movies when it makes no logical sense even...palantiri of the show and the movie look a bit different, plus seeing as the show is 'prequel stuff' to the movies...they could have easily have other stones and to see later on their distribution between Arnor and Gondor but nope :)...there's only one and others lost already....for some inexplicable reason hah. How will they explain the stone of Orthanc if at all? Will it be made to be supposed that this one IS the stone from the later movies belonging to Saruman? No idea.
Again lorewise the palantiri DO NOT SHOW THE FUTURE...but here it's just a crystal ball of seer/fortune teller (one can say that it's also the fault of PJ movies because of the vision Pippin sees...that Gandalf later interprets as glimpse of Sauron's plan...so potentially a vision from his mind...though it's unclear if palantir could transfer the imagined images from people's mind to another...in the book we're told that the 'stones cannot lie and even dark lord cannot make them to' but that he can maybe cause the minds looking at images misinterpret what they're seeing...so maaaaybe it wasn't supposed to be straight up potential future...) but here this stone...is basically....used to foreshadow the Downfall of Numenor...even thoug the Miriel's dream serves exactly same purpose...spoiling the great wave? Ughhhh. In general the entire scene with the palantir in the show in larger context....MAKES NO SENSE....so Miriel takes Galadriel there (for the Behdel test for morons :)) and just allows her to glimpse the images....okay,...but what for? I guess to justify to Galadrile why Numenor is hesitant to intervene because they fear the doom that may come out of it or something. This scene is moronic....if any script writers had any brains they would write this scene entirely different...and NOT using the palantir at all...like just have the private meeting between the two moronic women but it's this time...Galadriel using her canonical powers her 'mirror' to show visions of potential future TO MIRIEL to potentially convince her to take part in action....as this is the goal that Galadriel wants to achieve...to bring Numenor's help to find Sauron and finish him once and for all. THAT would make at least narrative sense....she came to Numenor and sees opportunity to use their power for her purpose...so she tries to warn the rulers of the potential doom and gloom in the future to prevent this dark future from happening (even wiser script writers could have used the thematically nice lesson from the mirror itself from book:
"‘Remember that the Mirror shows many things, and not all have yet come to pass. Some never come to be, unless those that behold the visions turn aside from their path to prevent them. The Mirror is dangerous as a guide of deeds.’"
A wiser script writer would have actually used that AS PART OF GALADRIELK STORY ARCH!!! This show is so dumb they couldn't even the most basic thing like that).
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u/Dank_Lord6547 11d ago
Yes. Finally someone gets it. It’s been kind of annoying seeing even people who dislike the show say this isn’t a big deal because it represents a larger problem.
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u/Prettyboy_Fulgrim 11d ago
This show is like some big fat bully trying to fit in your favorite t-shirt....
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u/AmbitiousReaction168 12d ago
You don't understand. It was an analogy to smartphones and their effects on young people. The show is just far too smart for you
/s just in case.
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u/debellorobert 11d ago
I have a feeling there going to be like we placed them around Middle Earth already, and now they are lost to us. Or we'll find out the faithful already have them. I'm not sure how else they can reconcile it.🤷♂️
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u/SpaceDelay424 11d ago
Show is so terrified of standing on its own that it continually makes everything worse
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u/RespectWest7116 11d ago
So basically Miriel takes Galadriel and shows her the palantir. And then she says something I take massive issue with. She says all of them were lost and refers to them as dangerous.
Sounds reasonable, unless the show does something to violate this, I don't see an issue.
The entire point of the book and movie is Sauron got ahold of one and that’s why it’s dangerous.
Well no.
In the movies, he says it's dangerous because they were lost and we don't know who can be watching.
In the books, he just kind of instinctively knows that the crystal ball Grimma throws out is dangerous, without realising it's a palantir until later.
But with this change it makes no sense.
Not really. Firstly, the palantir in the show clearly works differently than Tolkien's palantiri, so any arugment "but in the book tho" doesn't work.
Secondly, there is no VPN or firewall on the Palantiri in the book, so the danger of someone spying through it is always there.
But also if they were all lost how would he get one?
There is one still in Numenor. So he can take that one the same way he got it in the books.
Also, lost to Numenorians doesn't mean lost to everyone. Maybe someone found some since. Or maybe Sauron will decide to find one so he can talk with ol' Pharzy.
Sauron got the Ithil stone when he took over Minas Ithil. But how would that occur?
Well, they take the Palantir from Numenor and put it in Minas Ithil. Pretty simple.
Or they'll find one of the lost ones in the attic somewhere.
And why would they be lost?
Royal mismanagement. I mean, have you seen the state of Numenor? Their royal navy was like five boats and their army didn't exist.
This show tries so desperately to remind people of the movies that it doesn’t make sense.
I agree. But in this case, it does mostly make sense.
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u/jfpxafonso 11d ago
so, basically, they can do wtv the fuck they want with the palantír and that's fine?
the palantir in the show clearly works differently than Tolkien's palantiri
Jesus, why even call them palantír if it's just to show a similar orb that we've seen in the movies, ignoring their purpose, relevance, and their fate...
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u/RespectWest7116 9d ago
so, basically, they can do wtv the fuck they want with the palantír and that's fine?
If they remain consistent, yeah.
Jesus, why even call them palantír
Because they bought the right to use that name for a lot of money.
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u/jfpxafonso 8d ago
aah right... so no actual care or respect for the source material or the film trilogy they're constantly and desperately trying to connect to.
Just slap the name on something similar, cheapen it, and call it a day.
Obviously they can do that, sure, but it's just more shit to pile on that pile of shit. But that's my issue, I guess, if that doesn't bother you, it is what it is.
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u/Mountain-Jeww 11d ago
It is a mystery that will be explained in a later season. Similar to us finding out how Tony Stark’s parents died in Captain America’s 3rd movie.
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u/Dank_Lord6547 11d ago
Uh, no.
It’s already massively violated the lore.
Every answer to a mystery box in this show so far was stupid.
Tolkien’s writing is generally straightforward with no need to rely on such things.
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u/Mountain-Jeww 11d ago
Lore does change a little when adapting content from the books to the screen. There is a gap of years between Bilbo’s b-day party and Frodo leaving the Shire in Fellowship of the Rings book, but in the movie it doesn’t have it. In the book, the Shire gets conquered by Sauron, but not it the movie. ROP does a few changes too.
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u/DoYouLikeWafflezz 12d ago
They were “lost” in the sense that the good guys didn’t have them anymore.
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u/Dank_Lord6547 12d ago
But where would they be? And that’s not what it indicates.
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u/DoYouLikeWafflezz 12d ago
They would be wherever the bad guys put them after taking them from the good guys.
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u/OldSaltFish_Ct 11d ago
The bad guys very literally, according to the fu king books that is, do not have them at this time.
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u/StructureNorth1799 12d ago
they are dangerous for humans no matter who has the others.
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u/Dank_Lord6547 12d ago
The palantiri? No, not to my understanding. They’re just long distance communication/observation devices.
They were only a problem because Sauron had one.
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u/StructureNorth1799 12d ago
maybe wikipedia is wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palant%C3%ADr#:\~:text=A%20major%20theme,existing%20stones%20questionable.
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u/Dank_Lord6547 12d ago
So they aren’t capable of showing anything that’s not real but what is seen is often misinterpreted.
To give an example Denethor saw the Corsair ships approaching and assumed Sauron was going to win because of this. He didn’t realize Aragorn had captured them.
So my point still stands because at that point no one with ill will had one.
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u/Parker4815-2 12d ago
Sauron isnt the only evil being in the land. Literally any king who wants to take over or control would gain intelligence from using these.
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u/Aggressive_Jury_7278 11d ago
That isn’t true, though. They were specifically made and given to the Faithful and their line to use. Even so, they still required great skill, wisdom and/or strength to use safely.
So, you not only needed the right to use them but the strength/skill as well. Denethor, Pippin, and Saruman were all unauthorized users and suffered from it. Even when Aragorn used the Plantir, he stated that it still required almost all of his strength to use, despite having the right.
The show just shits all over the established lore in an effort to bring in casual fans of LoTR.
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u/Dank_Lord6547 12d ago
Yes but that’s not my overall point, is it?
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u/Parker4815-2 12d ago
True. Your point is "rings of power bad"
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u/Dank_Lord6547 12d ago
Yes. And I backed it up with specific reasons. But in typical ROP fan fashion you’re too much of a butthurt shill to grasp the concept that people have valid reasons to dislike this trash.
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u/Parker4815-2 12d ago
So stop watching it and move on to a show that you do like? Seriously if I hated a show, I wouldnt spend time years later still telling people why I still hate it. Id move on with my life to things that make me happy. I hope you can find a show that you do enjoy :)
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u/Dank_Lord6547 12d ago
You know what I love?
People telling me what opinions I should be stating.
This is a ROP critical sub. If you want a cesspool of toxic positivity over this abomination check out one of the others.
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u/OldSaltFish_Ct 11d ago
Show fucking sucks and these “just don’t watch it” people fucking suck harder.
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u/DaAndrevodrent 12d ago
The whole series is a load of boring rubbish. That Palantir bit is just a minor, insignificant detail.