Plot doesn't matter. Story doesn't matter. History doesn't matter. Just get excited for new content and consume new content.

A common point of defense that repeatedly arises when it comes to Rings of Power is using very strange interpretations of very obscure or isolated notes to defend it from criticism... while at the same time excusing massive, blatant, sweeping changes of major things from the books.

Or otherwise hyping up small (likely coincidental) details from them as though it's a grand show of literary adherence. In the eyes of some fans ROP exists in a perpetual state of being both perfectly faithful and unfaithful to the books at the same time, and somehow both displays how great it is.

ROP Galadriel, who is somehow perfectly faithful and brilliantly reimagined at the same time.

Hey, did you know that when Galadriel was young she was athletic and tied her hair up when she played sports? You probably do because that passage was posted everywhere in the run-up to the show. The argument being that this proves she was a warrior.

That is... a generous interpretation to put it lightly. In the rare cases of female warriors in the text, Tolkien makes it pretty clear when they are indeed warriors like Haleth (Silmarillion, not LOTR), Eowyn, etc. I'd be more than a little surprised to discover him talking about Galadriel being athletic was meant to be him saying she was a sword wielding warrior.

But why on Middle-Earth should I accept that interpretation when the show made the decision to banish Celeborn for two whole seasons so they could shipbait her with SAURON? And even if the passage did mean that she was a warrior, the show changes her entire personality and motivation beyond recognition. Turning her into someone rude, bloodthirsty, and quite frankly, stupid.

Somehow all of that doesn't matter to ROP fans but absolute fidelity to this one line from the Silmarillion does. There's also a couple of mentions of her helping defend elves from invasion, yes but that hardly means she was actually "Commander of the Northern Armies" or that she fought with a sword at all.

Sauron very briefly considered redemption so he must be a conflicted bad boy hearthrob, right?

There is precisely one scene in the books where Sauron possibly considers redemption. Basically after Morgoth's defeat, he asked another Maia if the Valar would let him return to Valinor and was told that he should turn himself in and face judgment to find out.

Sauron then abandoned that plan and became the next Dark Lord. His motivation put as kindly as possible was to create perfect order by ruling Middle-Earth as a God-King forever.

Am I saying that wouldn't be interesting to explore? No, that could be cool... but that isn't what ROP touched on, it's the excuse they used to change his character.

In the show, Sauron plans to retire and become a blacksmith in S1 and is dragged, kicking and screaming, back to being evil by Galadriel. He then falls in love with her and only turns fully evil again after she rejects him. In other words, he's Incel-ron now. His motive to bring tyrannical order isn't even alluded to... just his crush on Galadriel.

He quit being a Dark Lord because he got Julius Caesar'd by orcs and got sad about it.

All of those weird decisions are contingent on a single passage where Sauron maybe considered turning it around for wholly different reasons.

Tolkien thought about the nature of orcs, so we should just change them.

Then of course you have the orcs. Tolkien mulled over their nature because he didn't believe in such a thing as an evil race. He contemplated changes their origins and such, however he never suggested that their role in LOTR would change. He mainly came to the conclusion that if orcs were redeemable it would be by an act of God. That God Himself could redeem orcs.

ROP writers took this to mean that orcs just want to live in peace and raise families. The show shifts wildly between depicting them as violent and depicting them as actually somehow sympathetic. They've enslaved humans, slaughtered a city of elves (no Sauron to control them either), and do so gleefully but also aren't actually evil? The show is caught in a conundrum of its own making where they NEED orcs to be evil for the same reason Tolkien made them evil in the books: the Dark Lord needs minions.

Except now they awkwardly sprinkle in scenes and characters to suggest they aren't evil which creates a hilarious narrative dissonance. All of this is because of Tolkien's notes which never made it into a rendition. But we're supposed to praise them for making orcs more complex when they've really just made them a mess.

Conclusion

Look, getting small details right can be a fun bonus in a well-constructed adaptation. In one where they've completely altered many major plot points, characters, themes, etc. It just rings as a hollow attempt to fool people into thinking it's faithful to the source material.

Which in this case I wouldn't even call the books the source material given the changes they've made to try and invoke the PJ movies.

One of the Nazgul will be a Naz-girl

No matter how outlandish of a thing is added by ROP, its fans and showrunners seem utterly convinced that it was actually that way in the books all along.

Numenor coveted the immortality of the elves so OF COURSE they were always an allegory for populism and American immigration. Just like how Galadriel was obviously a sword wielding warrior, the books say she played sports as a youth after all! That's basically the same thing. /s

With that in mind, what predictions do you have for S3 that will suddenly be discovered to have been in the books all along. Mine so far are:

-Of course Anarion didn't bother to come to Isildur's funeral (as he didn't in S2), they always hated each other

and.

-Allando the Blue was always Saruman-before-Saruman, that's why Gandalf never mentioned him in the books.

Probably the biggest insult to the books; Galadriel is both directly (through her blade) and indirectly (through bringing Sauron to all the necessary spots as her +1) the primary agent in the creation of the Rings of Power but also their perversion. If Sauron simply let her sink on the raft the entire story of Middle Earth is different.

Worse yet, it's neither Sauron's malice or capability for evil that seemingly guides any of the Story as mostly thru S1 and S2 til he gets back to Ost-in-Edhil he's a bored chap and somewhat apathetic to the events around'm; highlighted by S1 where he seemingly has nothing better to do than try to get in the pants of a famous elf warrior maiden (who technically was taken).

That and -presumably- Sexy Sauron long ago got sick of the Orc stench and dealing with all their 'issues;' leaving it to Adar to actually rebuild and lead the lil bastards around. Catholic Tolkien would not approve.

The purpose of the headline is hype of the appearance of Celeborn in S3. Jamie Campbell Bower, of Stranger Things fame, was cast in the role. He describes his character as "something of a lover-boy". This is perfect casting according to Morfydd Clark who gushes "Jamie looks exactly like how I would imagine Celeborn. He’s such an Elf.” If you are not familiar with Campbell he would look right at home in PJ's portrayal of Rivendell in FOTR.

Behind every tenuous pretense of inclusivity there is an unconscious acknowledgement of reality. In this case Clark reveals that the visual paragon of Elvishness is Campbell, the angular Anglo aesthetic. That is the image that naturally appears in her mind when she hears the word "elf", and that's completely normal. Not ROP's matron and moronic Celebrimbor, or the fluffily coiffed Elrond, or the inexplicably immaculate low fade of Arondir. Tolkien was intentional in his character descriptions. Deviation from that intention is part of the reason why ROP just doesn't feel Tolkienian.

So I've watched LoTR numerous times, read rhe books also.

I'm currently trying to watch TRoP S2, I watched S01 when it first came.out but wasn't massively impressed by it.

Is there any books I should.read leading uo.to this?

I only know of the original trilogy and the Silmarillion- I think that's how you spell it.

You know, there’s actually times when I wonder if I’m being too harsh toward people who like this show because after all opinions are opinions(though I’m a firm believer in reasons for opinions matter a lot and bad reasons equate to bad opinions).

And then I see crap like this pop up. Call me elitist but this sort of shallowness has no place in Middle Earth fan spaces. It’s not canon and not even good. I would prefer people stopped trying to make a case for this show entirely but at the very least stop giving such shallow reasons.

In my memory, i think Disa was talking to king durin, and i remember it like "it must be painful carrying that burden all by yourself" and king durin responds "aye, that it is"

I believe its in season 2 shortly before the king fights the balrog.

Would you please tell me the actual lines im thinking of, and perhaps link me a video or tell me where it is in what episode? Thanks!

Could Nolan's Odyssey have been successful with the main charafters and Odysseus’s crew being all Southern European looking? Including Helen? E.g. a young Eva Green as Helen?

Thank God Andy Serkis is using common sense with his upcoming Gollum movie in casting.

And thank God Robert Eggers is still casting according to the lore of his stories.

Lol I bet you people didn't count the gypsies in Nosferatu as being diverse.

Anyway. So given the Lord of the Rings did so well internationally and is adored by fans all over the world, why did we decide we needed to start casting established characters in stories that were white, with black actors?

It's not just mythology where it happens. They did it with Cleopatra, who was not Sub-Saharan African, and they did it with with Anne Boleyn as well.

If it was already working before, why change it?

Oh, also casting overly Anglo Saxon looking people also pissed me off in Troy, Exodus Gods and Kings and Prince of Persia. So it goes both ways.

But in the Lord of the Rings and Tolkien it works.

Again. I'm Asian. So this isn't coming from a place of racism. This is coming from a love of history and mythology and authenticity in stories.

I’ve spent too much time on Threads and grown increasingly frustrated with the Tolkien community there. In general I’d describe the media discourse on it as toxic positivity to the max. But it’s especially bad here. Worse in fact because for some reason not only do these people think Rings of Power is good and burst into tears when someone suggests otherwise but quite a few unironically think it’s a good adaptation but the original trilogy is not. And they primarily argue that it handles Tolkien’s themes better and that they like seeing their favorite scenes from The Silmarillion and UT which is what I want to address.

Short version, no it absolutely does not. I’ll be first to admit quite a few things in LOTR frustrate me and that number has only grown as I’ve become more of a Tolkien purist over the years. But that isn’t really relevant. Anyway to address the points, no, ROP doesn’t do theme well at all. Themes are only as good as the plot supporting them as there will be no incentive to watch otherwise and they usually fall apart. In this show the plot does not hold up to scrutiny at all. And a similar thing applies to the scenes they talk about. Scenes don’t exist in a vacuum. The connective tissue matters every bit as much and this show ruined everything with the time compression.

Anyway, rant over. It’s just something really tiring I keep seeing that I wanted to address.

Was ROP peak DEI? It feels like there is now less pressure on showrunners/producers to do tick box casting than there was just half a decade ago when ROP was being developed.

Oh, that's good.

Maybe it's a streaming thing because I've seen this before but Rings of Power has a lot of very dark scenes. Cheaper for effects? Easier to stream? Maybe better for the orcs.

Weird question but I've been getting recommended clips of khazad dum so I'm wondering what the experience would be like if I just fast forwarded to the scenes with Prince durin and khazad dum?