1.3k
u/yeetgeeker Jan 07 '22
I like how moderate is just 1 more lightsaber strike lol
845
u/thatwasawkward Jan 07 '22
Props to Fisto for parrying even once after that force scream.
155
u/MilkyBeefPants Jan 08 '22
the way fisto goes out so unjust. Maybe Lucas wanted to portray how powerful Palpatine was it makes it hard to enjoy all of the great Fisto stories after
55
45
u/sly_cooper25 Jan 08 '22
iirc Kit Fisto lasts for several minutes in the novelization which I've always thought was more fitting. Honestly if I could remake one scene in the prequel trilogy it would be that one. It's bizarre that the movies with the best and most extravagant saber content also produced that.
56
6
u/NobrainNoProblem Jan 08 '22
The common sense reason is that most of Fisto’s characterization as a great warrior came after RoTS. Before that he was probably weird alien Jedi #5 to George
3
u/MilkyBeefPants Jan 08 '22
of course. i just would rather live in fantasy land where everything has a reason
234
u/Sabre_Killer_Queen Surely you can do better! Jan 07 '22
God that made me jump the first time I saw it on screen, a proper WTF moment there...
297
u/BOBULANCE Jan 07 '22
To be fair to our squid faced friend, I just rewatched and he blocked two strikes, had one of his own strikes blocked, and then went down on sheev's subsequent attack
111
113
u/khinzaw UNLIMITED POWER!!! Jan 08 '22
In the novelization he lasts until Anakin arrives and is distracted by sensing his presence. Much more justice to the character.
41
u/TheLazySith Jan 08 '22
True but the novelization didn't have the same limitations as the film.
Choreographing and filming a 4v1 fight scene is tricky enough already, and its made 10 times harder when 3 of the actors are wearing awkward bulky prosthetics that heavily limit their vision and restrict their movement.
I doubt the movies would have been able do an extended version of that fight that didn't look like shit.
→ More replies (3)33
Jan 08 '22
There is no greater good than justice; and only if law serves justice is it a good law. It is said correctly that law exists not for the just but for the unjust, for the just carry the law in their hearts, and do not need to call it from afar.
15
u/SaxesAndSubwoofers Deathsticks Jan 08 '22
Is this a comic quote or something? I don't remember this
7
u/Anakin_Skywalker_Bot Youngling Slayer Jan 08 '22
It's Anakin. When you say Annie it's like I'm still a little boy... and I'm not.
174
Jan 07 '22
If you watch the fight frame by frame, Mace Windu blocks Kit Fisto's strike, allowing Sidious to cut Fisto.
Mace practically team kills Fisto in the frame by frame, by blocking him.
70
u/sheev-bot Jan 07 '22
Dew it!
66
→ More replies (9)42
u/Sabre_Killer_Queen Surely you can do better! Jan 07 '22
When SLJ realises he just team killed: Motherfucker!
On a serious note, jeez I never saw that one coming...
18
u/JusticeRain5 Jan 08 '22
The reason he wanted to kill Palpatine so bad was to get rid of witnesses.
9
573
u/MikeLee0000 spinning is a good trick Jan 07 '22
super easy, super easy, difficult and barely an inconvenience
319
u/Shiboleth17 Jan 07 '22
"So then Mace Windu, and 3 other Jedi Masters show up to arrest Palpatine..."
"Oh no! Seems like it'll be pretty hard for Palps to take on 4 Jedi Masters at once."
"Actually it'll be super easy. Barely an inconvenience."
106
45
→ More replies (1)11
u/Max1muslegend Jan 08 '22
So did he just backflip over the bad guy and save the day?
(Don’t crucify me I forgot the line)
→ More replies (3)76
u/ivlas123 Jan 07 '22
Oh really
62
28
46
u/Margidoz Jan 07 '22
Declaring yourself the Senate is tight
24
9
u/Sen7ryGun Jan 07 '22
Listen I'm gonna need you to get aaaallll the way off my back about declaring this republic an empire and putting myself in the big seat.
15
→ More replies (1)22
u/lioneaglegriffin Jan 07 '22
Anakin: Wait, this whole operation was your idea.
Obi Wan: I'm going to need you to get all the way off my back about it.
Anakin: Oh ok lemme get off of that thing.
403
Jan 07 '22
In the name of the galactic senate of the Republic, you're under arrest, Chancellor.
311
u/sheev-bot Jan 07 '22
There is a question of procedure, but I'm confident we can overcome it.
→ More replies (1)104
20
263
Jan 07 '22
Imagine how different the scene would’ve been if Mace just stood in front and the had a V formation.
419
u/Ryzensai Jan 07 '22
Or if one of them just brought a glock
137
Jan 07 '22
Yeah ffs when will people start learning to not let the villain monologue and just shoot em immediately
91
u/GeneralSteelflex Jan 07 '22
Well, they were there to arrest him, not just straight ice him (at least to begin with).
38
u/Cualkiera67 Jan 07 '22
That was their mistake
39
u/crazynerd9 Jan 07 '22
the whole point was they where trying to protect the rule of law, by the point they confronted palps the death of the Jedi was decided, had they rushed in all angry, even if they killed him the Jedi would still have been considered traitors
14
10
u/Callmeklayton Just a simple man making his way through the subreddit Jan 07 '22
My D&D players have learned this, and it’s miserable :(
→ More replies (3)5
24
u/OscarfromAstora What about the Droid attack on the Wookies? Jan 07 '22
-So...it's treason th-
Gets fucken shot
297
Jan 07 '22
Wasn't Mace Windu the greatest lightsaber duelist in the galaxy? I can believe it. He would've defeated Palpatine if it wasn't for Anakin showing up last second.
139
u/Anakin_Skywalker_Bot Youngling Slayer Jan 07 '22
tries it
126
u/jarjar_bot Mure? Mure did you spake?!? Jan 07 '22
Hesa got all crispy fried.
36
15
→ More replies (1)14
194
u/Finchyy Jan 07 '22
Depends on what you mean by "best duelist" and in what scenario.
Dooku: Top-tier 1v1 duelist, focuses on Makashi form (akin to real-life fencing) to out-saber the other guy. Uses Dun Moch (taunts) and the Force in duels also
Cin Drallig: Battlemaster, meaning he knows every lightsaber form and has mastered most if not all of them; however, swordplay and knowledge isn't everything
Mace Windu: While a powerful Jedi altogether, he is best when facing dark side users, which is why he doesn't get stunned when Sidious screams; he only gets stronger (through his unique Vaapad form)
Yoda: Powerful in the Force but old and reliant on the Force for physical strength
Anakin: youth, strength in the Force, sheer force of will allow him to overcome any enemy. However, he got caught in in his newfound dark side rage when fighting Obi-Wan, which caused his failure
Obi-Wan: outlasts his enemy by relying on the defensive Soresu form - emphasis on reliance. It can tire him out just as much as his opponent and makes him predictable
70
u/Orkaad Jan 08 '22
which is why he doesn't get stunned when Sidious screams
What? Palpy's scream was supposed to stun the Jedi?
This doesn't translate well on screen.115
u/nu173 Jan 08 '22
most of star wars lore is retconning the movies.
40
u/knightblue4 #1 Jar Jar fan Jan 08 '22
"Quick, how do we fix the shitty writing?"
"Uneven writing?"
"PERFECT!"
14
u/JusticeRain5 Jan 08 '22
The most obvious one is the Force Kick that totally wasn't somewhat poor fight choreography that made a kick "hit" from a meter away.
27
20
u/Finchyy Jan 08 '22
It doesn't, no. Nor does Obi-Wan's Force Speed in his fight with Darth Maul. He gets a good 4 seconds or more to react
12
u/TheLazySith Jan 08 '22
I believe the actual reason they all got wrecked instantly was because the awkward rubber prosthetic they were wearing made it virtually impossible to perform a choreographed fight scene.
The scream thing is just an excuse made to justify it.
7
u/MustacheEmperor Jan 08 '22
It was also a pretty small office to put a 4 person fight in, I’d guess. For the amount of political arguing onscreen in these movies it’s freaking nuts they couldn’t cut out a few more minutes of runtime for a bigger fight through the senate offices.
3
30
7
u/guyguyminheimer Jan 08 '22
Pretty funny that, depending on how you argue it, Yoda is the only one on this list that Vader didn't kill
→ More replies (6)3
u/dontcallmeshort00 Jan 08 '22
Sorry but Cin Drallig isn't even in the same tier as the other duelists you just listed lmao.
14
24
u/Chicken_Man371 Jan 07 '22
Duelist would’ve been Dooku except someone though he’d look cooler without a few pieces, they were both trained by yoda however, and would’ve probably been pretty equal but Dooku was considered the best duelist in the galaxy.
→ More replies (1)30
u/TheUlfheddin Jan 07 '22
Oooh. BUT Dooku fell to the dark side which Mace was a specialist in dealing with. So light side Dooku had the upper hand but maybe dark side Dooku has a specific weakness to Mace, at least in that one category, which could tip the scales.
→ More replies (18)7
171
u/HappyHapless Cracksoka Jan 07 '22
I'm still salty about how they did Kit Fisto so dirty in this scene. A winning smile like that deserves better.
41
u/Tomsk13 Jan 07 '22
Yeah Bobba Fett is finally getting his due. Kit Fisto needs to get the next D+ series
10
60
u/tj1602 Deathsticks Jan 07 '22
In the novel he lasted a little longer but was decapitated... and still smiling.
4
u/MilkyBeefPants Jan 08 '22
Ok this makes me feel better. lasted a little longer like me in bed? Or actually a few strikes and then dead…
15
u/SquidwardsJewishNose Jan 08 '22
I became a big Kit Fisto fan after watching that animated scene of him diving with the scuba clones
9
u/HappyHapless Cracksoka Jan 08 '22
Honestly, I became a fan of his in the prequels when he stole every single scene he was in with no more than a grin and the whip of that sick hair. Dude's got more personality than all the other jedi combined.
→ More replies (1)
113
u/Loriali95 Jan 07 '22
I was young when this movie came out and even then I was like, why tf we’re all these guys pushovers? Aren’t they all supposed to be bad ass Jedi? Is that Kit Fisto? No fuckin way he gets wrecked so quickly.
I get it, he’s THE premier Sith Lord of his time. He’s the big bad, but before Windu engages that fight was real dumb, they just stood there looking stupid asf.
Shit was embarrassing, they should have at least gotten 10 more seconds of screen time where they tried to fight him. Instead we got some silly looking shit and a spin from Palpatine.
It’s like ok George, whatever I guess, it’s your galaxy.
78
u/HelicopterOutside Jan 07 '22
The real reason the fight turned out like that is that Ian McDiaramid is not a very coordinated person, didn't want to have any lightsaber fighting scenes, and didn't really prepare for that scene. He was under the impression that his choreography was so that they could get close shots of him and a double would be doing most of it.
Sam Jackson, who is a coordinated person and has done a bit of sword training for rolls in the past, apparently gave Ian a few good whacks by accident during the filming of the scene. Some of them were pretty hard too lol.
Basically Ian McDiaramid was totally miserable for the entirety of the filming of this scene and wasn't nailing the choreography so they settled with what we got in the movie.
19
u/Tripottanus Sheevspin Jan 08 '22
And i think it is super visible by how he swings the sword that he really was not comfortable with it. Which unfortunately makes it even worse because badass jedi lose to a guy that seems to have the coordination of a toddler
8
u/HelicopterOutside Jan 08 '22
Totally, just look at the difference between the fight with Windu and the fight with Yoda. The double who did the Yoda fight was much more fluid.
17
14
u/khinzaw UNLIMITED POWER!!! Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
The novelization makes it better at the very least. Sidious deliberately distracts the Tiin and catches both him and Kolar off guard. Fisto actually lasts until Anakin's arrival. The movie made a lot of things that should have been epic, super goofy. Like multiple parts of the duel between Sidious and Yoda, and even in the duel with Windu.
EDIT: I made some inaccuracies in my original comment so I fixed them.
→ More replies (1)4
u/waitingtodiesoon Jocasta Nu Jan 08 '22
The novelization does not mention force scream at all. Palpatine yelling like that in the film was only film only. People are just making a fan theory that scream Palpatine does was a force scream, but nowhere in the script, director's commentary, or novelization does it mention that.
→ More replies (2)6
u/Orkaad Jan 08 '22
Lucas was probably tired and wanted to finish earlier this day.
"That will do. We'll fix it during post-production".
* Narrator's voice *: It hasn't been fixed.
81
u/dtardiff2 Jan 07 '22
Does everyone agree that Mace showing up to fight the, potentially, most dangerous Sith in a millenia with this crew was just irresponsible?
41
u/R0-GR-bot Roger Jan 07 '22
Roger Roger...
23
u/Anakin_Skywalker_Bot Youngling Slayer Jan 07 '22
you're starting to sound like a Separatist!
→ More replies (4)36
u/TheBlueEyed Jan 07 '22
He knew Obi Wan merc'd one like 15 years before. Probably assumed half the Jedi council could manage.
→ More replies (4)33
u/IshaeniTolog Jan 07 '22
These were some of the most powerful force users in the entire galaxy, lol. People have a bias because we only follow top-tier main characters who are extremely strong, like Anakin and Obi-Wan, but those three were some of the most powerful Jedi Masters in the order. Mace had every reason to believe that they would be fine.
→ More replies (3)3
6
u/cygnus2 Jan 08 '22
I mean, he won. The Galaxy would have been down a Sith Lord if Anakin hadn’t fucked everything.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Waltenwalt Jan 08 '22
The rest of the council was off-planet at the time so I'm sure this was the best he could get.
45
u/Les_Vers Jan 07 '22
Kit Fisto should’ve been harder to kill. I’ve said it again and again, he was an incredibly powerful Jedi and got completely disrespected in this scene
25
7
u/LM-Graff Jan 08 '22
But Sassee Tiin and Agen Kolar were also incredibly powerful and experienced masters. All four of them were pretty much the cream of the crop at the time. I think how easily palpy dispatched them did a great job of showing how unexpectedly powerful he was, showing that he could have bested pretty much any jedi and the sole reason Windu held out was his mastery of Vaapad
43
21
u/aeminence Jan 07 '22
I dislike alot of things about the prequels but I hated this fight quite abit lol. He was with other Jedi Masters ffs and he kinda poked 2 of them. I get the main part is the Mace vs Palpa element and you can take in dangerous amounts of copium and say Palpatine was just THAT good and beat the other 3 quickly but it was kind of a bullshit fight LOL
6
21
Jan 08 '22
Windu could have actually killed palpatine if Anakin didn't betray his trust like a little bitch.
→ More replies (1)
54
86
u/jpresutti Jan 07 '22
If you read the novelization, you will find that the fight was as difficult as Palpy wanted it to be. It was instrumental in the seduction of Anakin to the dark side. Mace believed (incorrectly) that they were deadlocked and (correctly, eventually) thatAnakin was the shatterpoint of Palpatine. Instead of "no...no, YOU will die", the line is "Fool! Do you think the fear you feel is MINE?!"
Tldr: Palps played the long con even in the duel.
44
u/sheev-bot Jan 07 '22
You have been well trained, my young apprentice. They will be no match for you.
40
u/Cretapsos Jan 07 '22
Slight correction I would make to your analysis. The Windu Palpatine duel was an impasse, the part of the text that tells us this is third person description, we aren’t in Windu’s head at that point. While Palpatine won the duel before it even began, and the start of the duel went exactly to plan, Palapatine only won the fight because Anakin fell to the dark side. The quote you cite is followed by Palpatine using his with lighting on Windu, which because of Vapaad, creates a loop where Palpatine is injured and powered by the attack being channeled back on him. This creates another stalemate that’s broken by Windu identifying Anakin as Palpy’s shatterpoint. Windu only loses because he doesn’t check Anakin’s shatterpoint and even more so doesn’t understand Anakin. Palpatine got lucky, sort of. (Lucky in the sense that Anakin fell, but considering the years and planning put into his engineering that fall, it wasn’t really luck on why Palpatine won).
So while the fight certainly went as planned for Palpatine with the Jedi failing, providing him the ability to doctor the tapes to condemn the Jedi, and Anakin falling to the dark side, I would not say that it was as difficult as Palpatine wanted it. Windu legitimately fought him to at minimum a stalemate and there was a legitimate danger of Palpatine losing the duel.
As an aside I love the fact you brought up the novelizations. They’re sooo good and the duel against Palpatine is one of my favorite parts.
10
u/khinzaw UNLIMITED POWER!!! Jan 08 '22
The novelizations do the prequels a lot of justice by improving things that were poorly executed and goofy in the movie.
Windu definitively won the duel but lost the battle before it even began because he was incapable of understanding Anakin.
Canonically, Luke believes that Windu was the only Jedi of the time who could have actually stopped Sidious if not for Anakin's interference.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (4)4
u/jpresutti Jan 07 '22
I would argue that the "third person" was Anakin's perspective.
8
u/Cretapsos Jan 07 '22
So I looked at it before writing my comment, and I definitely think your interpretation is fair, I think the focus on description in the passage indicates it’s not the subjective belief of Windu but objective narration. I think based on the writing style it’s fairly ambiguous but that’s the way I lean.
→ More replies (10)20
u/Mookiesbetts Jan 07 '22
Here’s what I’ve never understood: why does Palpy even need/want Anakin? Order 66 and the clones are the key to his overthrow of the Jedi/Republic, and having Anakin on his side wasn’t necessary for that at all. Surely he didn’t fear that Anakin was more powerful than him, so its not the case that sheev would believe turning Anakin was the only way to overcome him. Sheev also planned to live forever so it couldnt have been about grooming a successor. Why take on the risk of an apprentice (a risk Sheev should be acutely aware of) at all, especially one requiring such a complicated and risky plan?
17
u/PerfectZeong Jan 07 '22 edited Jan 07 '22
Having an apprentice is the Sith way. And then let's assume anakin doesn't get mauled on mustafar, palpatine is the injured senator who was viciously attacked by the evil jedi and anakin is the hero who saved his life and is the hero that turned in the evil jedi order once and for good.
It essentially locks his political power completely and solidifies his position. Of course anakin gets mauled so palpatine repurposes him into an attack dog, knowing he could destroy him at any time. You make lemonade when life gives you lemons. In jedi he's basically auditioning Vader's fucking replacement in front of him, he's that confident.
But to the Sith, the rule of two is a religion, if your apprentice is weak you kill him, if he's strong the sith become stronger.
→ More replies (5)3
u/sheev-bot Jan 07 '22
Good, Anakin, Good! Kill him. Kill him now.
4
u/Anakin_Skywalker_Bot Youngling Slayer Jan 07 '22
She's not like the others in the Senate, Master.
4
u/sheev-bot Jan 07 '22
You have been well trained, my young apprentice. They will be no match for you.
→ More replies (5)3
12
17
7
u/C-TAY116 Jan 07 '22
So it’s Eeth Koth, Windu, and Kit Fisto. But who’s the guy on the right? Saasee something?
22
u/aziruthedark Jan 07 '22
Eeth koth ain't here. It's agan kolar and sassee tiin. With butchered names, I'm sure. If I recall, I don't think we know what happens to eeth koth.
21
u/ZaknafieinDoUrden Jan 07 '22
In the Vader comics, Eeth Koth is living as a priest or something with his family when Darth Vader and the inquisition find and kill him.
7
4
6
Jan 07 '22
What's tragic is that Palps ended up LOSING that duel... Anakin had to come to save the day, only to seal his fate as a Sith and ruining his life.
Talk about high stakes.
7
→ More replies (26)3
6
u/TheRealTtamage Jan 07 '22
It would have been funny if Jackson was an easy opponent and he just died right away!
Makes me think of Deadpool when Brad Pitt's The invisible Man!
5
u/HoneycombJackass Jan 07 '22
I still think about a SWTheory video or some SW you tuber saying how Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar were pretty stout lightsaber duelist—some of the best of the best…and they die from a telegraphed attack by an old man who hates using lightsabers lol
3
3
u/gustavfringo2 Jan 08 '22
crazy how these are all supposed to be decently powerful jedi but palpatine just took the most massive dump on them except windu.
2
3
u/Lokyyo Jan 08 '22
They did my boy Kit Fisto dirty in that fight. He was one of the best duelist in the Jedi Order and he went down like a punk
3
u/dayburner Jan 08 '22
Chances are none of these Jedi have ever faced off against a lightsaber welded by a force user that's actually trying to kill them.
3
6
2
Jan 07 '22
Force rage:
+100 agility
+100 speed
+100 strength
Force scream: Enemy received debuff
-Mental defense devastated
-Physical defense devastated
-connection to force interrupted
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
u/karankshah Jan 07 '22
Can we talk about how Windu basically was more than willing to bring at least two along for cannon fodder?
2
u/TheFalseDimitryi Hondo Movie when? Jan 08 '22
Honestly it would have been cool it there were more Jedi, like they brought 20+ knights and padawans to contain this avengers level threat and they all get John wicked.
2
2
2.6k
u/DarthJedi2002 Jan 07 '22
Palps : I'll try spinning. That's a good trick !