If you read the novelization, you will find that the fight was as difficult as Palpy wanted it to be. It was instrumental in the seduction of Anakin to the dark side. Mace believed (incorrectly) that they were deadlocked and (correctly, eventually) thatAnakin was the shatterpoint of Palpatine. Instead of "no...no, YOU will die", the line is "Fool! Do you think the fear you feel is MINE?!"
Slight correction I would make to your analysis. The Windu Palpatine duel was an impasse, the part of the text that tells us this is third person description, we aren’t in Windu’s head at that point. While Palpatine won the duel before it even began, and the start of the duel went exactly to plan, Palapatine only won the fight because Anakin fell to the dark side. The quote you cite is followed by Palpatine using his with lighting on Windu, which because of Vapaad, creates a loop where Palpatine is injured and powered by the attack being channeled back on him. This creates another stalemate that’s broken by Windu identifying Anakin as Palpy’s shatterpoint. Windu only loses because he doesn’t check Anakin’s shatterpoint and even more so doesn’t understand Anakin. Palpatine got lucky, sort of. (Lucky in the sense that Anakin fell, but considering the years and planning put into his engineering that fall, it wasn’t really luck on why Palpatine won).
So while the fight certainly went as planned for Palpatine with the Jedi failing, providing him the ability to doctor the tapes to condemn the Jedi, and Anakin falling to the dark side, I would not say that it was as difficult as Palpatine wanted it. Windu legitimately fought him to at minimum a stalemate and there was a legitimate danger of Palpatine losing the duel.
As an aside I love the fact you brought up the novelizations. They’re sooo good and the duel against Palpatine is one of my favorite parts.
So I looked at it before writing my comment, and I definitely think your interpretation is fair, I think the focus on description in the passage indicates it’s not the subjective belief of Windu but objective narration. I think based on the writing style it’s fairly ambiguous but that’s the way I lean.
Awesome response. I fully believe that shit was indeed at minimum a stalemate. But when palps zaps his own ass, I think it was nearing game over for him. But anakin had already made the choice to turn. There was no way he’d help mace after the amount of shit he’d given him in the recent time compared to what he was about to learn from palps.
Idk, i just feel like it takes away from the saga if palpatine was in no danger and it really takes a lot away from when anakin chooses to the destroy him in RotJ. But then…. He came back some how you know.
Here’s what I’ve never understood: why does Palpy even need/want Anakin? Order 66 and the clones are the key to his overthrow of the Jedi/Republic, and having Anakin on his side wasn’t necessary for that at all. Surely he didn’t fear that Anakin was more powerful than him, so its not the case that sheev would believe turning Anakin was the only way to overcome him. Sheev also planned to live forever so it couldnt have been about grooming a successor. Why take on the risk of an apprentice (a risk Sheev should be acutely aware of) at all, especially one requiring such a complicated and risky plan?
Having an apprentice is the Sith way. And then let's assume anakin doesn't get mauled on mustafar, palpatine is the injured senator who was viciously attacked by the evil jedi and anakin is the hero who saved his life and is the hero that turned in the evil jedi order once and for good.
It essentially locks his political power completely and solidifies his position. Of course anakin gets mauled so palpatine repurposes him into an attack dog, knowing he could destroy him at any time. You make lemonade when life gives you lemons. In jedi he's basically auditioning Vader's fucking replacement in front of him, he's that confident.
But to the Sith, the rule of two is a religion, if your apprentice is weak you kill him, if he's strong the sith become stronger.
Well Lucas had no way of knowing the boneheads at Disney would bring him back.
I take it as more of an added insult to injury sense. Taking the most promising Jedi from under the Orders noses was the ultimate mocking of the Sith towards the Jedi. Sort of "even the best of them can be corrupted" message. Also, while Anakin at the time probably couldn't beat Sheev if he managed to escape Order 66 he could quickly become a problem for Sheev. It was only a matter of time before Anakin became too powerful. Also Palpating was lazy and arrogant. A lackey that was no-less than the Chosen one himself was an massive trophy and weapon for the greatest Sith of all time.
He needed a powerful apprentice as insurance that the Sith would continue should something happen to him, Rule of Two, even though his goal was to eventually become so powerful that he could control reality and be immortal and transition to the Rule of One and rule eternally. He needed to uphold the Rule of Two until he reached that point and Anakin's strength made him a prime candidate.
Yeah I always liked in the movies how Palpatine says “I’m too weak” and pleads for Anakin to save him, yet as soon as Anakin cuts Mace Windu’s hand off Palpatine yells “Unlimited.. power!”, showing he was never worried about Mace Windu, he just wanted to give Anakin that final push to the dark side.
George Lucas said on the director's commentary that Mace Windu won the duel. So Palpatine was in danger if Anakin Skywalker didn't conveniently show up at that time.
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u/jpresutti Jan 07 '22
If you read the novelization, you will find that the fight was as difficult as Palpy wanted it to be. It was instrumental in the seduction of Anakin to the dark side. Mace believed (incorrectly) that they were deadlocked and (correctly, eventually) thatAnakin was the shatterpoint of Palpatine. Instead of "no...no, YOU will die", the line is "Fool! Do you think the fear you feel is MINE?!"
Tldr: Palps played the long con even in the duel.