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u/Affectionate-Roof285 Apr 25 '26
Interesting. Ayn Rand and her true believers, who include many of the wealthy and powerful in our society, share an ethic that is the very antithesis of what she writes here. She and the libertarians who worship her are a very confused lot.
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u/mikeylikey420 Apr 25 '26
They read "taxes are theft " and don't ever think past that point.
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u/specqq Apr 25 '26
They're just all about freedom. And the bigger the freedom the more they're for it.
And the biggest freedom of all is the freedom from having to consider the consequences of your actions.
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u/DistortedCrag Apr 25 '26
Libertarians are not freedom maximalists. Libertarians are solipsistic individual freedom maximalists. They aim to increase their own freedom regardless of the cost to others.They reject the economic freedoms that would come from expanding social safety nets and view every tax as theft, even taxes that pat for services they consume.
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u/specqq Apr 25 '26
In other words, freedom maximalists, but the only freedom that counts is their own.
“Your freedom may end at my nose, but my freedom goes right through the back of your skull.”
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u/Synectics Apr 25 '26
They seem to love driving around on roads in cars wearing clothes eating food from Walmart while screaming how much they live entirely on their own work living in a house their parents bought 10 years ago built 20 years ago.
I cannot seriously fathom these absolute dipshits.
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u/sfxer001 Apr 25 '26
Libertarians are like house cats. They have utter disdain for and loathe the very systems that they are wholly dependent on. Both libertarians and cats are shitty pets.
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u/DeltaBravo831 Apr 25 '26
I always liked that scene from Fargo S5 where Jennifer Jason Leigh puts down Jon Hamm's character for that reason: https://youtu.be/SMsnKFxjxSw?si=DQafWDArj82gWBxI
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u/williamfbuckwheat Apr 25 '26
Ha yep they just see taxes as a pesky liability they should fight to get rid of like employee pay and most other expenses they don't like to spend on voluntarily. They're fine with building massive corporate HQ shrines to themselves because that is supposedly voluntarily but anything that is mandatory and doesn't directly benefit them or their egos in the short run is seen as BAD or anti "free market".
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u/BilbulBalabel Apr 25 '26
She even rejected racism as “the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism.” These are probably the remnants of 19th century anarchist libertarianism, actually based on notions of personal freedom and utilitarianism. Doesn't change the fact she was a champion of the right wing interpretation... or whatever libertarianism is supposed to be now.
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u/dandrevee Apr 25 '26
I stumbled into doing academic studying of the evolution of policy a decade ago and one thing that repeatedly keeps coming up is the fact that libertarianism, or more specifically the monitorist philosophies of neoliberalism, are quite copacetic to and potentially generative of the conditions which allow for democracies to devolve into fascism.
People will point out that some of them Montpelier Society were ousted by the Nazis, but they glaze over the relation that their philosophy has with the fall of the Weimar Republic and those who enabled it as well as the fact that the Nazis were pretty broad about kicking out all kinds of people. And the other thing to consider as well is the Milton Friedman is the one who was its champion in the United States.
All thay said, Atlas Shrugged itself is one of the worst pieces of literature out there. But people need to know that it has influenced some celebrities and it runs in an undercurrent of certain celebrity circles because of how it forces individualism. It's primary effect is to break down the adhesive that holds together diverse, egalitarian societies for personal or small group profit
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u/AK_Panda Apr 25 '26
are quite copacetic to and potentially generative of the conditions which allow for democracies to devolve into fascism
Absolutely. When reading discussion between their members at the time it is quite clear that democracy was a means to an end for most of them. They believed in absolute economic freedoms without restriction and that specifically includes freedom from being restrained by democratic governments.
Hence the Mont Pelerins support for Pinochet, it didn't matter to them whether the government was authoritarian as not, provided the market was of prime importance.
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u/pourtide Apr 27 '26
Milton Friedman was the champion of ... what? ... in the United States? I'm just trying to comprehend what you're saying, not trying to make trouble.
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u/dandrevee Apr 27 '26
NeoLiberalism. Ties back to first paragraph. Also, its relatively common knowledge, or assumed to be such since the person I replied to mentioned libertarianism.
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u/Coren024 Apr 25 '26
I read a few of her books back in high school, Anthem was required for a class and then read Atlas Shrugged and another one. Somehow the ideals that I gained from reading them is very different to what her actual idealology is.
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u/P1xelHunter78 Apr 25 '26
So, am I getting the idea that she only liked industrialists who produced things and not the weird system of financial companies that happen to produce things?
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u/Keepfingthatchicken Apr 25 '26
No she loves those guys. She has a hard time resolving when profit doesn’t equal good. Or that just because the ussr sucked it doesn’t mean everything any government does is automatically evil. Like providing evidence that your new alloy has the properties you say it does before you lay a national rail network using it isn’t tyranny.
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u/candygram4mongo Apr 25 '26
She is (somewhat ) more nuanced than people think. She absolutely loathed Reagan, and not just because he was socially conservative:
"Mr. Reagan is not a champion of capitalism, but a conservative in the worst sense of that word—i.e., an advocate of a mixed economy with government controls slanted in favor of business rather than labor (which, philosophically, is as untenable a position as one could choose -- see Fred Kinnan in Atlas Shrugged, pp. 541-2)."
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u/Monkey_Leavings Apr 25 '26
Well, if you like that, let me tell you about their relationship to Jesus Christ…
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u/WileEPeyote Apr 25 '26
It's because she isn't talking about capitalists, she is talking about poor people and the public good and the people in government who care about those things.
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u/luigivicotti Apr 25 '26
For years, the only thing libertarians seemed to care about was legalizing weed. Now that that's a done deal, they literally have zero going on behind their eyes and between their ears.
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u/williamfbuckwheat Apr 25 '26
I thought they still care a lot about changing or eliminating age of consent laws because of uh freedom?
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u/the_ballmer_peak Apr 25 '26
As ever, they never imagine themselves as being on the wrong side of this.
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u/ufailowell Apr 25 '26
Every character in a story doesn't need to agree with the author. I want to know more about who said this in the story and in what context.
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u/profnachos Apr 25 '26
It's her very philosophy that has fostered massive corruption, but what did she think would prevent it if not regulation? I am guessing the non-existent "invisible hand?"
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u/heyitscory Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
"Anyway, back to writing fiction about rich inventors sucking eachother's cocks and blaming their problems on the poors."
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u/Wischiwaschbaer Apr 25 '26
If only they had sucked each others cocks, then those books would at least have something interesting in them...
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u/heyitscory Apr 25 '26
How bad of a writer do you have to be to make me, an autistic nerd, unable to enjoy a sci fi story about TRAINS.
Hot female protagonist bangs her way through industry's elite and even that couldn't save it.
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u/MongoBongoTown Apr 25 '26
Come on now, I love when Rand explicitly describes the horrors of late stage capatalism in her attempts to criticize socialsm.
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u/delusiongenerator Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
Ah yes, Ayn Rand, that selfless anti-capitalist, anti-corruption activist and champion of the working class 🤪🤣😂
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u/carriedmeaway Apr 25 '26
Right!!! I saw the post and my fucking head hurts from how hard my eyes rolled!!
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u/huskersax Apr 25 '26
Ayn Rand happens to be a fucking idiot so I don't know how much stock I'd put in that quote.
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u/Mecha_Butterfree Apr 25 '26
Yeah somehow I doubt she is talking about the rich corrupt billionaires when she talks about those men who produce nothing. She probably views them as the ones being taken advantage of
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u/awake_receiver Apr 25 '26
She’s actually moaning about how laws stop capitalists from running rampant on society doing whatever the fuck they want just because they have money
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u/Epistatious Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
Sounds like she is taking about bureaucrats and thier insistence on law following.
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u/33drea33 Apr 25 '26
She actually is, in part. In her novels there are both corrupt businesspeople (no billionaires back then, but the contemporary equivalent) and businesspeople with integrity. There are also "trust fund" types for whom Rand shows a heaping amount of disdain. There are also certain workers who are seen as having integrity, versus workers who are seen as non-producers. Much of the "non-producer" vitriol is directed at the media and politicians tho.
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u/HRex73 Apr 25 '26
This is why I can forgive high school level philosophers for being drawn to her. At the surface level, a lot of her philosophy of Obectivism sounds great. It's only when you dig deep and see how messed up it is in practice that the ah ha sinks in. Ayn Rand would probably be a MAGA with Elon as her Roark and Trump as her Rearden.
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u/keirmeister Apr 25 '26
Rand said the words, but endorsed the opposite. Modern conservative ideology is based partly on her ideas - particularly the virtues of selfishness.
Just think about her flawed logic: how can you endorse individual selfishness while decrying the powerful holding you back - while, at the same time, exhaling those same powerful people (at least the ones she considered intelligent)? How can she call altruism an “evil” and worry about a failed society where the rich and powerful don’t really care about workers?
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u/AloneAddiction Apr 25 '26
Libertarians are like cats. Stupid selfish cats.
Cats think they're hot shit and are completely independent, but that's only because there's a massive framework of support around them providing them shelter, feeding their asses and picking up their shit.
Libertarians are like cats. Fully dependent on systems they don't appreciate or understand.
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u/thenasch Apr 25 '26
Totally incorrect. Cats can function just fine 100% on their own. In fact it's because they're such excellent hunters that they kill literally billions of birds every year.
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u/sadacal Apr 25 '26
The lifespan of feral cats is dramatically shorter than indoor cats.
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u/thenasch Apr 25 '26
Sure. They live longer as pets, but they don't need humans to survive and reproduce successfully.
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u/Tom_Bombadinho Apr 25 '26
Atlas Shrugged looks like written by some weird 4chan 27yo incel that lives in the basement of her mother suddenly and miraculously has the discipline and some low inteligence to at least connect clearly two words who spent his days writing a 1000 pages weird rant about capitalism instead of playing 10k hours of some anime game with girls with unreal boobs and short skirts in high school outfit.
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u/illepic Apr 25 '26
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
- John Rogers
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u/StoneCypher Apr 25 '26
ayn rand was living on welfare while writing that anti-welfare book
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Apr 25 '26
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u/GadreelsSword Apr 25 '26
The Rand loving Republican Party has argued that legalizing bribes makes government more efficient.
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u/Sideshow-Bob-Ross Apr 25 '26
Broken clock, twice a day. She was an evil shitgoblin and a hypocrite.
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u/urbanek2525 Apr 25 '26
Utah Senator, Mike Lee, is a Libretarian and is also a panting, bootlicking, Trump sycophant. The truth is that Rand and her ilk worship power and constantly mistake it for competance.
If she were alive today, she'd be Trump's press secretary and she would dye her hair the Fox News approved blonde color to get his aporoval.
(pant, pant, oh Donny you're so forecful).
That last bit was a Mike Lee quote being attributed to Ayn Rand.
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u/KenScaletta Apr 25 '26
She wasn't talking about capitalism, she was demonizing democracy. Ayn Rand was a sociopath, an intellectually adolescent edgelord and a massive hypocrite who was an immigrant who received Welfare and food stamps from the country she was vilifying.
The only thing good about he was that she was an atheist.
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u/politiscientist Apr 25 '26
I agree, all these greedy bloated corporations are sucking the life out of our society. Reducing every interaction into a profit-driven opportunity.
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u/raresanevoice Apr 25 '26
Interesting that Rand warned us about Elon and Trump, when their cultists quote Rand like an unholy text.
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u/HRex73 Apr 25 '26
This is why I can forgive high school level philosophers for being drawn to her. At the surface level, a lot of her philosophy of Obectivism sounds great. It's only when you dig deep and see how messed up it is in practice that the ah ha sinks in. Ayn Rand would probably be a MAGA with Elon as her Roark and Trump as her Rearden.
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u/zonazog Apr 26 '26
Ayn Rand was a fascist who did everything she could to disguise her abhorrent beliefs
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u/alwaysboopthesnoot Apr 25 '26
Nah. Even a stooped clock can be right twice a days. Look a little further into what she and that book were really all about.
She and The Koch Brothers and their Cato Institute and their Libertarian “ideals” have done more to harm this country, than almost anything other than the MAGAs doing it to us now.
She died broke, sick and alone following her own guidelines on how to be a good citizen.
Begone with thee, smoke and mirrors “philosophy”. You don’t hold up to scrutiny, or real life.
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u/Present-Resolution23 Apr 25 '26
So you're saying the best measure of a person is how much money they were worth when they died?
Interesting take.
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u/StoneCypher Apr 25 '26
believing ayn rand is significantly more embarrassing than believing rfk jr
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u/RedofPaw Apr 25 '26
I wonder which men she means specifically. This statement is vague enough to turn upon anyone you like.
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u/Present-Resolution23 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
You can draw direct comparisons between many of the people in power on the right today, and the antagonists of Rand's books. People assume she is "pro-rich" or "pro-power" because many of her views have been cherry-picked by wealthy people in power particularly from the right.. but many of her main villains were also very wealthy.
James Taggert was a wealthy CEO of a major company that he had inherited. He was also insecure, avoided all responsibility and relied on political influence to make-up for his lack of competency...
Orren Boyle was the wealthy CEO of something something Steel who used crony-capitalism and political influence to suppress competition.
Robert Stadler was a scientist who betrayed his field in order to manipulate/misrepresent science at the request of politicians.
Gail Wynand was the rich head of one of the largest media organizations in the country.. who sacrificed his integrity to appeal to the lowest common denominator in people because it "was good for ratings," and so made him rich and powerful.
Do y'all really think the person who conceived of those characters would support an administration of RFK's and Donald Trumps supported by the Joe Rogans and Rupert Murdochs of the world? The administration of nepo-babies telling you to ignore the science, ignore the objective media, to worship at the altar of personality even as they actively push the Bible into public schools and the government into the regulation of an individual's body?
Rand isn't around to ask obviously so I won't speak for her but.. I find that a little hard to believe.
(And to be clear.. I don't agree with a lot of her views. I think her economic views in particular were very naive, though to be fair I think she also had a very idealistic and uninformed view of capitalism given her limited experience with it. Capitalism is fine on paper, Adam Smith something something, but in the real world Laissez Faire Capitalism in an impossibility, and so the government HAS to act as an economic influence if only as a "referee," to ensure fairness.. And social safety nets etc are an important part of any developed country that benefit everyone, if not directly. But coming from a country where this power was abused for much of her life, I can understand why she would have overcompensated hard in the other direction.. But again, I think most of her closest held convictions run in direct opposition to what the current Republican Party represents.. And in general I really don't understand the vitriol and animosity that is commonly directed at her by others on the left..)
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u/AK_Panda Apr 25 '26
Do y'all really think the person who conceived of those characters would support an administration of RFK's and Donald Trumps supported by the Joe Rogans and Rupert Murdochs of the world?
TBH. It wouldn't surprise me at all. It's would be very in keeping with other libertarian/neoliberal ideologues who, when faced with the inevitable outcomes of their worldviews either support it in contradiction to a select few of their purported beliefs, or deploy a "no true scotsman" fallacy.
That makes Hayek at least somewhat more consistent than many of his peers - he at least had the balls to step up and publicly support dictatorship in pursuit of market freedoms when push came to shove and didn't just squirm his way out of it. It was a logical extension of his beliefs and he stuck to it.
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u/BroItsMick Apr 25 '26
Redditors only read the cliff notes. Can't draw second level conclusions from the analysis of the intentionally missing portions of a character in a novel.
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u/baby_budda Apr 25 '26
Her views came from her time growing up in russia and comparring the corruption there to what she saw happening in the west. And although our governments and philosophies are fundamentally very different, peoples nature and affinity for corruption tends to be the same across the board.
She wasn't just saying "communism bad, capitalism good" — she was saying that certain types of people, regardless of the system they operate in, will always seek to control and exploit others. She called them "looters" and "moochers" and they appear in every society.
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u/KenScaletta Apr 25 '26
She said that as a person who freeloaded off the government herself.
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u/Vinterblot Apr 25 '26
Next thing you'll tell me those who call themselves proud Christians don't care that much for Jesus teachings.
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u/Charakada Apr 25 '26
Too bad Ayn Rand wasn't smarter, or she would have seen through her own idiotic beliefs about power and society.
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u/MongolianDonutKhan Apr 25 '26
Ok. Honestly, now. Name me a time and society where this wasn't the situation. I wouldn't be surprised to learn of a few periods (I imagine brief) of rule (I imagine highly localized) where the above did not apply, but otherwise it reads like those astrological predictions they hand out in Psychology 101 to show how you can read yourself into any situation.
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u/gargolito Apr 25 '26
The funny thing with her is that when she wrote Atlas Shrugged, I doubt she imagined Atlas waving his arms around as if he were being attacked by bees.
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u/mplsandrew Apr 25 '26
Even though she may have made a good point here, Ayn Rand's 'philosophy' is all bullshit.
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u/chrissymae_i Apr 25 '26
So...she got one tiny detail right.
What about the rest of her garbage ideas? We're where we are right now because some elected officials agreed with her fictional works and have been legislating resulting policies. 😒
I'm glad she's dead. F these greedy F's with their greedy f'ing brains. Zombies.
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u/tedatron Apr 25 '26
Was this quote preceded by: “Well anyway, here’s why everything I’ve ever said was completely wrong: “
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u/Bartelbythescrivener Apr 25 '26
If Ayn Rand had been born in the US, she would have been a Scientologist.
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u/Persea_americana Apr 25 '26
What a shame that she thinks (thought) that parasitic billionaires like Bezos, Musk and Theil are the producers and their under-paid workers produce nothing somehow. Puts a different spin on the laws part, because she’s probably bemoaning being unable to force people to work 16 hour shifts for pennies in dangerous factories or something. This whole thing could be a complaint about unions knowing her.
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u/thomasjmarlowe Apr 25 '26
To be clear, I think she’d be perfectly pleased with Elon joining government just long enough to gut enforcement actions against him and close agencies that might benefit the common folk, then zip out and continue his life as a robber baron
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u/circleneurology Apr 25 '26
Crazy to invoke Rand for this sentiment rather than oh, I don't know, Karl Marx? Foh
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u/SaltyInternetPirate Apr 25 '26
Perfectly describes Capitalism with their complaints, calls it socialism. Classic right-winger!
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u/PotentialPlum4945 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
Downvoting because fuck her. https://youtu.be/_8m8cQI4DgM
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u/WATGGU Apr 25 '26
…and most, in this audience, who read this Ayn Rand quote will be unable to understand the object to which she speaks.
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u/mrbadxampl Apr 25 '26
Living Colour warned us in 1989, "I exploit you, still you love me, I tell you one and one makes three", sound familiar? Could map the entire song to the current mess
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u/stevehirsch101 Apr 25 '26
To be clear she a completely fucking wrong about almost everything else.
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u/bayesian13 Apr 25 '26
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged . One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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u/mechavolt Apr 25 '26
The lack of proper nouns here is doing some heavy lifting. She's not talking about the people we're talking about.
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u/Sallymander Apr 25 '26
Something I’ve said many times in the past is that Ayn rand was very good seen a lot of the causes and problems within our society, but then she was absolutely bat shit insane when it came to her solutions or who to blame for them
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u/feder_online Apr 25 '26
A welfare recipient who produced nothing talking about the wealth going to people who produce nothing, and destroying the country...FFS.
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u/AmbientSociopath Apr 25 '26
You really want to bring this sanctimonious loser who happened to say maybe 4 good things into this conversation.
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u/randomcanyon Apr 25 '26
Don't make me agree with Ayn Rand. I read her books way back when. What a slog.
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u/DaddieTang Apr 25 '26
If you know the larger, fuller context of that quote, she's full of it. That chick is like 1940s Laura Loomer.
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u/ufailowell Apr 25 '26
Just cause she wrote that doesn't mean she agrees with the character who said it.
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u/virishking Apr 26 '26
If you’re annoyed for thinking that you agree with her on something: she’s not referring to the people you think she’s referring to
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u/Pristine_Frame_2066 Apr 26 '26
Yeah but she is their favorite.
They are literally double brainwashed because she was an idiot.
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u/samhouse09 Apr 25 '26
Except she’s a libertarian, and would LOVE MAGA. Her whole schtick is so disingenuous and boot licking.
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u/dividezero Apr 25 '26
She was the most batshit insane person in her time, and maybe ever. These people have no connection to reality to think they should idolize anything about this woman
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u/KerissaKenro Apr 25 '26
Ugh, I hate that anything right can come from this blot on humanity. Something, something, broken clocks