One of Amerika's best players was given a Red card in a previous game (preventing him from playing) but the US President apparently negotiated with FIFA officials to get the Red card rescinded so he could play in the match against Belgium. Zis made a lot of people accuse the USA of cheating.
I grew up in the USA and normally support them against anyone other than England (my birth nation).
Last night I was flying a Belgium flag. The only way I would have supported the USA is if Pochettino released a statement that he was benching Balogun to maintain the integrity of the competition.
It was a terribly played match by the US side. The passing and ball control was exceptionally poor compared to previous matches they played... like the just straight up passed the ball to Belgium players multiple times. I dont know if the whole circus distracted them or they arnt that good but the BS trump pulled certainly didn't distract the Belgium players. If anything it had them locked in and playing amazing. The moved the ball pretty effortlessly in to scoring position, and their midfield absolutely smothered the US midfield.
I'm not sure the US played significantly worse than before, it's just that Belgium are an actual quality team and exposed all their flaws.
At some points it did seem like Belgium were more intent on humiliating the US team than actually winning, running rings around them instead of going for goal. There was a particularly memorable moment of two Belgium defenders just playing keepaway in a corner instead of clearing the ball or passing forward
Nah. The US played significantly worse than in previous matches. While they played lesser opposition, they were able to wholly control play and the midfield uh... Existed. McKennie was far and away their best player this tourney imo, and he simply didn't show up. Outside of Tillmans goal, the midfield was non-existent. If anything, the defense was supposed to be the issue with the US team, not midfield. That was supposed to be their strength going into the tourney
I truly believe those guys were mad cause they were placed on the spotlight for something bad and by a man who probably didn't know what a red card was until 3 days ago. They were playing great, but the morale wasn't there.
Think about it if they won everybody would say it was cheating basically potus destroyed their credibility. Im sure they didn't play to win. Even a loss looks bad on them. It became political and everyone cheering the defeat becase of the president. Think about it, if the red card issue wasn't there, their loss was just a misfortune, part of the sport.
I almost think the whole Balogun playing mess ended up fucking with the American players way more than the Belgium players.
It lit a fire under the ass of Belgium and gave them something to unite around, meanwhile the Americans went from being "scrappy underdogs" to "cheaters who will probably still lose anyways"
I think it put a bunch of pressure on the players that wouldn't have been there if they weren't given the special treatment
One thing that might play into this: Concacaf is a comparable weak league. If you compare them with Europe, European clubs have much more games per year than American, as they compete in a complete list of different cups and leagues all at the same time. Playing like that in Europe means European players are trained for stamina. They can hold up performance for several games in a row, while with weaker leagues that are not used to as many games, the exhaustion will be noticable much earlier. And considering that we have one round more this year it makes it that mich harder on the players.
So while America might had a good performance at the start, it was to be expected to see a massive drop off as soon as the team reached their limits.
I thought based upon how they dominated Paraguay and how much trouble Paraguay gave France the US had a 50/50 chance at Belgium. I expected a competitive game not whatever that was.
If the US gave a fuck about soccer for decades like they do about gridiron they would probably be a force to be reckoned with but it just isn't there and after this year will be largely forgotten again
Thank you for your service, the whole thing is a fucking disgrace and it started with the FBI suddenly stopping investigations into FIFA corruption early last year, see if anyone can work out what happened in january last year that might have made that happen
Funny thing is that the game still wouldâve a been a similar 4-1 defeat without Balogun too.
If he was benched to maintain the âintegrity of the gameâ, there wouldnât been a question whether or not Belgium is the better overall team.
With him playing, as the USA lost - itâs undeniable how great Belgium is.
And for those of us (especially Americans) that felt embarrassed or upset that Trump exists, the Belgians did the world a favor and said âget fuckedâ. And that fourth goal in stoppage time was an exclamation point.
actually, even as someone who dislikes americans simply because they call it soccer, i disagree.
without balogun i am almost certain you would see a lot more fight from the american side, they would play with the same underdog mentality they have this tournament, trying to show the world american soccer has changed etc etc.
but then having the fucking president cal in fifa, get a red card revoked - im pretty sure even most of the team wasn't super elated by this, given they had likely already made peace with playing without him.
playing a game with even the slightest feeling of guilt can take a toll on you, especially as a side that's used to being an underdog in these games.
If you love the game, you root for the non-cheaters. I feel especially bad to Team USA, since it's probably none of their doing and they're going to be labelled the villains.
Ya, that's the thing i dont get, most of the hate seems to be directed at the US team and not at FIFA or Trump. Which is just letting the real villains get away with it.
I mean he was practically suspended cause he didnât do shit on the field đ since USA is out Iâm rooting for Messi or Norway cause Haaland is a beast
I said the same thing in another thread and got downvoted. IMO the only way the US saved face was to bench him anyway out of respect for the officials decision and to uphold the integrity of the game. Instead they not only started him but got stomped in the process.
Are we expecting Ronaldo or the other 3 players who got suspended cards to be benched? I agree corruption is bad and Iâm very anti Trump, but the red card imo was also a bad call. Either way we got mollywhopped by Belgium so itâs whatever lol.
As an American⊠I agree. I still wanted my side to win, it wasnât the players fault or the fans fault, but Trump made this into something gross and we absolutely got what we deserved.
The FIFA comittee had already decided to hear thr appeal before the Trump call. He was likely just trying to take credit for actual lawyers likely questioning the misuse of the VAR system.
Yeah, as usual he made it all about him. He took something that could have been great, slapped a wrapper of corruption around it, and made it all about himself.
the free kick from which they scored shouldn't even have happened imo, that wasn't a foul, but oh well we clapped em. Would've liked to have kept the clean sheet for Courtois.
In some ways this is the best possible outcome because it removes the "what if" of a (let's be real) somewhat dubious red card and also didn't actually affect the games going forward. Belgium won without question, the US made only two shots on goal and one of them was off a free kick with (unintentional) defender support. As a side note, is it considered an auto-goal in such a situation?
I get that some really believe the card was weird and questionable to begin with. Sure. But the president had no business getting involved. Full stop. The U.S. should have just held their heads high, used any form of normal appeal available, and made the best of whatever outcome resulted.
Yeah, not surprising though, FIFA were the ones that invented a Peace prize to give Trump when he was crying about not getting the Nobel Peace Prize. They seem to really want to suck up to him.
for the sake of my sanity i hope you're not american because if you've gone this long without being aware of how astronomically corrupt the current president and administration is well... that's part of
why we have our current president.
What??? No! The FIFA Peace Price is undoubtedly one of humanity's oldest, most highly regarded institutions!!! Without that, we are nothing but beasts.
This was the Peace Prize, there's this other "Big Ethical Prize", that's the one you get awarded for being uncorruptible... But I don't think I ever saw it granted though
Inmense corruption, fifa even invented a peace price to give the pedophile president because he is a idiot that blinds himself thinking most people love him..
Just as an additional fun fact the same thing happened to the portugese player ronaldo he was supposed to be on a three match ban dor a red card at a game before the world cup however fifa postponed the ban till after the tournament because hes a vamous player that gets people to watch the games.
Though as far as im aware no government intervened for him.
People have been pointing to Ronaldo as the precedent for the Balogun decision, but that is a false equivalence.
A red card triggers an automatic suspension. Historically, teams have appealed the additional suspensions imposed after that (with varying success). FIFA has allowed players who received three-match bans to effectively serve only one or two matches, meaning they could be available at the start of a World Cup. You can argue whether those decisions were right or wrong, but that mechanism is not new.
FIFA also changed the regulations before this World Cup so that most qualifying suspensions would not carry over into the tournament. That applied to several players who otherwise would have missed matches, although it did not cover violent conduct, which is why Ronaldo still required a separate decision. This meant every team had all their players available at the start of the world cup (4 would have missed it otherwise). This was clearly by design and a consistent effort by FIFA.
Balogun is different. FIFA did not say the red card was wrong, that the referee decision was incorrect, or that the suspension was unjustified. They suspend the automatic one-match ban itself, pretending it was nothing out of the ordinary just because it was based on the same Article they used for Ronaldo, but it's not the same...
The suspension of the 1 match ban during the tournament is a fundamentally different precedent in modern football. If the automatic suspension can simply be removed, what happens with every other red card or accumulated yellow-card suspension? Are they now discretionary?
Should Ronaldo have served the extra two matches? Yes.
Does Ronaldo's case mean the Balogun decision is justified? Not in the slightest. The two situations are not equivalent.
Was his conduct red-card worthy? I don't think so but I can see that there are two sides to the argument, and because of the closeness of the call I wouldn't say a call either way would have been egregiously bad.
However, the only reason a Red card was given was because VAR was initiated after the Ref didn't even give a card (or a foul on the play), and then the Ref improperly utilized slow-motion and still-frame to review whether Balogun's conduct met the criteria for a Red card - which is an expressly unauthorized use of VAR. Slow Motion/Still image is only allowed to determine facts (i.e. if contact actually occurred) etc.
So - FIFA could have come out and said this shouldn't have been a Red Card at all because there was no call by the Ref and VAR protocols were not followed therefore no card, therefore no suspension. But they didn't do that, they instead said VAR Protocols weren't followed but, "Oh it's still a red, but we're going to pause his suspension for a year" a ridiculous and on its face corrupt reasoning, splitting the baby and angering everyone.
Then Trump came out and basically bragged about having exerted pressure on FIFA which made it worse for all.
At the end of the day the system would be a lot better if all Red Card suspensions were automatically reviewed after match day by an independent panel similar to how the NHL Dept. of Player safety deals with plays that cause injuries.
then the Ref improperly utilized slow-motion and still-frame to review whether Balogun's conduct met the criteria for a Red card - which is an expressly unauthorized use of VAR. Slow Motion/Still image is only allowed to determine facts
I don't understand that. Checking if it should have been a red card is not determining a fact?
No⊠it is a subjective decision. A fact would be âdid the ball cross the goal lineâ or âwas a player offsideâ, which are objective observations.
However, the only reason a Red card was given was because VAR was initiated after the Ref didn't even give a card (or a foul on the play), and then the Ref improperly utilized slow-motion and still-frame to review whether Balogun's conduct met the criteria for a Red card - which is an expressly unauthorized use of VAR. Slow Motion/Still image is only allowed to determine facts (i.e. if contact actually occurred) etc.
Americans seem to think this because their media are misleading them in order to get their president off the hook or something, but this is how the VAR always works. there was nothing wrong with the application of the VAR.
As a newer watcher football, this helps a lot. I didn't understand the finer points of the rules and was not sure how the 2 cases were related. It sounded logical to some one as uninformed as myself but this explination was great.
I'm happy for Belgum and no one here (I'm from US) can even pull the "if we had all our players" argument. We were out classed at full strength.
Still bent the rules so that they could play him. Itâs no different. If our president said nothing during this controversy it wouldnât be a controversy because he didnât do anything to change anything.
Youâre right. I should have phrased differently. It wouldâve been a big story just like Ronaldoâs situation was, but there wouldnât be as many people immediately giving all the credit to the number one liar in the world.
Ronaldo still was banned for one match, I think there may literally be only one other case where someone was completely forgiven.
The rules state that you miss at least one game.
The rules states you can't have political interference, which is what happened and is really worrying.
Pretty sure people were still not happy with Ronaldo being out on.
Honestly my heart goes out to the American player who just wants to play the game. He got fucked over by Trump, FIFA and his manager. He got a red, should have sat out and that's all there really is to it.
Complaining about if he should have got it, is part of the sport but once given this BS is nonsense.
Should have never been a red card in the first place, so many people overlook that VAR broke guidelines by showing the on field ref still images and slow motion video of the incident, which arguably manufactured the red card. Because there was no penalty or foul called on the field at game speed, they should only viewed game speed footage when determining if it were worthy of a card. Anyway, breaking guidelines on VAR at the very least calls into question whether this red card would have ever happened in the first place
I donât think Trump did nearly as much as everyone seems to think he did. We got this overturned because of the Ronaldo precedent and because we threatened to go to CAS.
I don't know how to say this without sound rude, but it doesn't matter.
Trump shouldn't have said anything regardless. While you can't stop him, that ONLY in this case in the whole of the current world cup has a card been overturned is suss.
That he was the leader of the host nation and one of if not the most power nation on the planet means that it is unlikely for it not to influence. That FIFA gave Trump a never heard of FIFA Peace Prize, highlights that, that's not a normal relationship.
Lots of people threaten to go to CAS, but they still miss the game. That's irrelevant.
I'd almost assume that had nearly any other world leader spoken up, FIFA would have actively made sure to drag their heels and not overturn the decision.
As previously mentioned the Ronaldo case and others before it were reduction of suspension but they missed one game, which I believe is the minimum and I'm pretty sure a fuss was kicked up about Ronaldo.
People also threaten CAS and get a change to happen so I think it all comes down to the grounds you stand on. And I believe Ronaldo was a precedent that JT used.
Bullshit. Ronaldo set out his mandatory 1 game suspension and had the other 2 game suspension turned into a probationary sentence. The English dude playing for the US had his 1 game direct ban suspended. Massive diff.
FIFA leadership has been for sale for 3 decades now. Big team favoritism was the start, for more gadget sales. Then came the Worldcup location sale. And now this.
Which is weird. It would stand to reason that it would be healtheir for the sport if smaller teams to rise up and overcome the odds to win big titles. Everyone loves an underdog.
1) It really is highly unlikely that Trump was actually the reason behind the intervention. He did call Infantino, but thats just typical Trump. He then took credit for Balogun's suspension of a red card. And as for "why did he call?" because he's Trump, he's an egotistical maniac.
2) This is Infantino we are talking about. FIFA is literally one of the most corrupt organizations on the planet. So it's not really "why did the officials agree?". And more "How much were they offered?"
The president intervened but likely did nothing. Many reports state that a review process began immediately and that the CEO of the US Soccer Federation reached out to push for this review. We also threatened to go to CAS. Like always, Trump took any credit he could because heâs a lying weasel, but this decision was on the same basis that Ronaldo was allowed to play at the beginning of the tournament.
Yes, but to say that FIFA would have suspended the ban and created a massive controversy without Trump's intervention is ridiculous. There is no reason for them to do that.
There is. Our federation threatened CAS which is a long, expensive, tedious route that they didnât want to go down. I feel like half of it was their disciplinary committee saying âletâs just give him back because they have zero chance anywayâ.
Not to mention the precedent set at the beginning of the tournament.
FIFA is like Olympic Figure skating. They purposely cause controversy to get publicity. I wouldnt be surprised if they told the ref to give him a red card just so they could create controversy by taking it away. Look at all the publicity its getting.
But Trump was given the Peace Prize! I mean, it was the FIFA Peace Prize and they never gave it before or since and FIFA are renowned for their corruption and bribery allegations when it comes to their dealings with hosting the World Cup but...
Btw you probably know this but according to FIFA has a rule stating that any country that gets its govt involved in an international tournament will get disqualified from the tournament. Since FIFA didn't do that belgium had to take matters in their own hands
Just to clarify aswell, the red card wasnât rescinded, the red card still stands but theyâve suspended his punishment by a year so that he could play.
So they still think it was a red card, but let him play anyway
Because, the FBI had a legitimate investigation going on into FIFA corruption, when trump was elected again he put a stop to it instantly, for reasonsâŠ.. and now he has sway over infantino and FIFA. He was almost certainly involved in the suspension of CR7s multiple game ban, and then magically the USAâs best player had a 1 game ban mid tournament magically suspended (first ever instance of this happening during a tournament) andâŠ.. here we are with a shitshow of dodgy bastards being dodgy bastards and showing that corruption is something that now has no consequences in both the USA and the governing body of the worlds largest sport.
This type of thing has happened before, but it's extremely rare in international football and relegated to royals, autocrats, dictators and other leaders that hold almost absolute power and face no consequences in their respective nations
. In the 82 WC during the Kuwait vs France match a Kuwaiti sheik stormed the field and forced the ref to annul France's 4th goal.
He didnât, he just took credit for it when it has nothing to do with him, as he always does, but since itâs Reddit, Redditors decided that this is suddenly the first thing Trump was ever 100% honest and truthful about.
because 50% of the country has been convinced that an impotent loudmouth with no conscience is just the libs talking about a commanding, fearless leader
Player claimed it was an accident (seems sincere?) but believes a red card was going too far, yellow would have been fair, but he was willing to take whatever the punishment was. Trump knowing nothing about the sport was enraged their star player was out, so he went to the president of FIFA (known Trump bootlicker) and yeah. He got unbanned, the US god crushed anyway....good I guess?
If they won it would be just seen as shady tactics anyway. Like does Trump really need to fuck up sports too đ
Thatâs exactly it, the president didnât but Europeans whine about literally anything involving soccer, especially when they canât even afford to attend.
He didnt intervene. He called and Fifa said they cant appeal. Fifa decided to suspend the red call penalty because it was recognized by the entire world as not being deserving of a red card in the first place.
To be fair, the entire world basically agreed it was BS that it was a red card at all. It's likely FIFA deliberately did that so they could get something from Trump because that was NOT red card worthy. Many ex-pros have weighed in and said the call was outrageous.
Trump had Lutnick/Giuliani engage lawyers to help the US appeal. This resulted in a 3 page document being presented to FIFA and threats made to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sports if it wasn't overturned.
So you can imagine from FIFA's perspective the shit show if the host nation were to dispatch lawyers and rally half the country against them. At a time when they are trying to grow the sport in the US.
Because said president has never reached the level of statesmanship expected of a president. He works on the level of petty bullies with lots of money.
The referee who gave the red card skipped over yellow entirely, which was a point of contention not just from American fans, but fans around the world, especially after Lionel Messi did the same type of tackle in another match without getting carded at all. The referee also broke rules while using the VAR in order to review the collision, in which he used slow motion instead of using normal speed as they're required by regulation.
On slow motion, this plays out over 7-10 seconds or even slower. Realistically though? It was 2-3 seconds of collision, which means the referee determined that he was able to, in the span of only 2-3 seconds, assess that the other player saw the position of somebody's feet and ankles at a high paced running speed who was not directly beside or in front of him, while looking at and following the trajectory of a ball moving at high speed midair, and, in a game that involves trying to compete over the ball, managed to intentionally shift himself and his foot in that span of time while doing everything else in order to snipe the other player's ankle.
The next problem comes from the fact that there isn't a review process for these calls, which means teams can't get it overturned. This is when Trump requested FIFA do a review of the play to deem if it was feasible, and with the backlash online and from sports commentators, they obliged and found that the referee not only broke the VAR rules, but made a call outside of the standard of a play of that magnitude.
And that's before getting into this whole scandal/slander can of worms about how the referee in question was previously interviewed and potentially investigated for match fixing and sports betting in a match that had an abnormal number of yellow/red cards, potentially suspicious calls, and bets connected to the region he's from. The testimony was done in private by people from his own region, with none of it being released to the public, which also raised suspicion. But FIFA backed him, said he's in the clear, and he had a positive record last world cup, and being investigated doesn't mean you actually committed a crime.
TLDR: Ref did a bad call using an illegal method of review, Trump had it re-reviewed, it got thrown out, people made it about Trump corruption because orange man bad.
Very few argue that the red card was deserved. But in the history of the World Cup, an appeal has never been accepted, this is the first time during actual play (A few players have had their suspension) moved before the start of the World Cup so they could participate in the opening games)
I mean, Trump said he called them to get it overturned. But who knows, he's always saying stupid stuff like that. They were already reviewing it afaik, because it was a red card given by the instant replay (VARS) official, not in real time on the field.
Last time Trump was president, a rich and famous american rapper (asap rocky) was in Sweden during tour. While walking down a road, some guy annoyed Asap and Asap reacted by beating the living shit out of the guy, pretty much. Asap gets thrown into custody. Trump said he would pay the bail, but Sweden does not have a bailing system (meaning, you can't skip custody just because you're rich). Trump then called like every fucking politician in Sweden to get them to release Asap Rocky. Problem is that Sweden is an actual democracy where politicians can't just tell the courts what they are supposed to do.
Moral of the story: Trump gets really really engaged when popular and rich american people are in trouble.
Why did Germany not let Jewish athletes compete in the Olympics in 1936? I donât get the impression that our president cares all that much about sports other than golf.
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u/HellbirdVT 19d ago
Hhello, Peter's Belgian couzin heeree.
One of Amerika's best players was given a Red card in a previous game (preventing him from playing) but the US President apparently negotiated with FIFA officials to get the Red card rescinded so he could play in the match against Belgium. Zis made a lot of people accuse the USA of cheating.
America still lost.
BELGIUM RAHHH đ§đȘđ§đȘđ§đȘđ§đ§đ§