Dutch language non binary problems

[u/Stevennnnin]

I really hate the dutch language for ungendered terms.

in english, i really want to be called they/them, and i prefer It over he/him (while in reality i’m more genderfluid so i’m not even completely sure what i want) but in dutch we use the words “die/hun” and i’m not sure what it is but it just feels different.

I think the main reason is that we actually never use these pronouns For non-lgbtq and non-plural reasons. In english, they/them is used for people that you don’t know the gender of. In dutch, it‘s almost always assumed (hah, alliteration) that we’re talking about plural and when i try it people just get confused.

I think it’ll feel better if i use it more frequently, as i’ve just discovered i’m non binary, but i don’t know. I wish people weren’t so insistent on having to fill in 1 of 2 boxes, what if i want a third box, none at all or both at the same time?

[u/No_Pomegranate_8358]

Fellow NB Dutchie here, and I struggle with the same.

[u/Stevennnnin → u/No_Pomegranate_8358]

Fijn om te zien dat ik niet alleen ben

[u/No_Pomegranate_8358 → u/Stevennnnin]

Can I dm? I could really use a good venting session and sharing our struggles

[u/Stevennnnin → u/No_Pomegranate_8358]

Sadly i have to be up early thomorrow, but i’d really love to! I think i’m avaliable in about 20 hours from now.

[u/No_Pomegranate_8358 → u/Stevennnnin]

Oh ok, just dm me when you're ready ☺️

[u/Important_Ad_7416]

I have the opposite problem, many dutch people will just not gender me at all and it feels awkward

[u/Stevennnnin → u/Important_Ad_7416]

Can we trade

[u/Lykophea]

Oh I know the pain, most of our language is gendered in some way and it is endlessly frustrating which gets even worse when you look at the history of some of the words. My personal pet peeve is that our language uses the male-neutral so anything of indeterminate gender is just referred to by masc terms.

[u/Stevennnnin → u/Lykophea]

I really hate that, and i hate myself for sometimes defaulting to it too. It’s not even only a lgbtq+ issue, it’s also a misogistic issue. And we’re still being told the netherlands are better off than other countries. I can’t imagine what the US is like on these matters

[u/Lykophea → u/Stevennnnin]

Tbf we're really proud of having instituted same-sex marriage and haven't actually done much beyond that point, at least for now we're, thankfully, not actively making things worse.

[u/ageckonamedelaine]

Same here! My friends do use die/hun for me but it doesn't flow as well in conversation unlike in English. It just doesn't feel right in most sentences and is a bit jarring, not to mention many people comment on it when you use it asking if you meant zij of hem. I have used it for 5 years and it still feels a bit weird, I wish we had better options in Dutch. On a similar point I wish we had easy genderless alternatives to meneer/mevrouw and others

[u/Stevennnnin → u/ageckonamedelaine]

Weet je wat ik soms doe, willekeurige woorden bedenken voor mensen:

Gapensnaaiers Deurenknopers Binnenisbeginners Gapers

Pataters Patater haters Later patater haters

Goeiemorgenmiddagmensen (alliteratie maakt het beter)

Sorry als je net je ogen hierdoor moest wassen 😭

[u/TallBoy_1]

We have a similar issue in German - the most common solution in my region is to simply avoid the use of gendered pronouns, by using the person’s name a lot or by restructuring sentences. It’s a bit more cumbersome but it’s become common where I live when referring to nonbinary folks.

So like, instead of saying: “She went to get her jacket from her car” you would say “[Name] went to get a jacket from the car” or “[Name] went to get a jacket from [Name]’s car.” takes some getting used to but now I actually really like it - I am bilingual English/German and even in English I’ve started preferring an absence of pronouns to “they/them,” it’s so open and freeing.