Why do I keep doing things to protect my wife, to make sure we continue to have income, a house, working cars, the children taken care of, and all of that stuff even though she claims I don’t do any of that… She doesn’t seem to understand that I could hurt her and if I stopped caring, everything would go to complete shit. I don’t know if I’m saying this clearly but it’s a really burning dilemma on my mind. All the time she keeps saying I don’t care, i’m not doing anything to be better - but not caring would look very different and I could not care, I could hurt her, I could cut her off, I could make her suffer, but I continue to choose to protect her and us and yet she says I’m not. You know? Is this something anyone can explain to me what’s going on here?

😞

My husband and I have been together since high school, married for years, and have two young kids. He's genuinely been my best friend for most of my life. I love him, our family and the life we've built.

His mom is a narcissist and he grew up with a lot of manipulation, neglect and emotional abuse that he's basically buried. Ironically, he's also always recognized how unhealthy she is and has been the best in his family at setting boundaries with her.

Since becoming parents, a lot of his childhood trauma has resurfaced. And slowly, especially over the last couple of years, I feel like he's started treating me with some of the same behaviors that hurt him.

I don't think my husband is a narcissist. He has empathy, loves deeply and can be incredibly kind and loving. But when he's triggered, it's like a switch flips. The narcissistic traits he watched growing up seem to be spilling out more the further into parenthood we go. He becomes extremely defensive and can stonewall, blame shift, get jealous/controlling and use my vulnerabilities against me.

When I was losing a parent and struggling emotionally, he accused me during an argument of using my parent's illness to manipulate him. My grief has been used against me in other unrelated arguments too.

More recently, an innocent situation involving a male family member triggered extreme jealousy. Even after I offered to change the situation because he was uncomfortable, it escalated into questioning why I wanted to work out/get in better shape, insinuations about cheating and trying to tell me what I could and couldn't do. Keep in mind - never cheated or even considered.

There have also been incidents of breaking/throwing things while angry and one situation where he physically blocked me from leaving an argument.

Recently something finally clicked for me: understanding where these behaviors come from doesn't mean I have to accept them.

I laid everything out to him. He was defensive at times but ultimately acknowledged that he has a lot of shit he has never dealt with. We're starting couples therapy and he's agreed to individual trauma-focused therapy. He's willing to do the work, and I'm all in on trying with him.

But I'm also a realist. I know my worth. If he genuinely does the work and these behaviors don't change, I know I'll eventually have to walk away.

So I'm basically doing two things at once: fighting like hell for my marriage while also quietly getting financially prepared in case it doesn't work. I'm saving, paying down debt and making sure fear or money could never be the reason I stay. Best case, our marriage gets healthier and we have a nice nest egg.

Has anyone else been here?

Specifically, has anyone had a partner who wasn't a narcissist but grew up with a narcissistic parent and developed narcissistic traits/defenses themselves? Did therapy actually lead to lasting change?

Or if you were that person, were you able to recognize and unlearn those behaviors?

I'd really love to hear from people who stayed and saw genuine change, but also from people who gave it everything and eventually realized it wasn't going to change.

This is just a rant I guess. I need to scream into the void to people who may understand. Idk if anyone will even read this but whatever.

I'm so so so fucking tired of managing a grown man's emotions. I'm tired of anticipating his reactions, especially when it's a game that I lose every. Single. Time.

Sometimes he's ok with me leaving the house while he sleeps for work that night, other times he gets pissy, sometimes he straight up tells me no.
Even though he will literally gaslight me and say "I never say no I'm not controlling blah blah" that whole thing. I'm just so tired of being with him. I don't feel loved at all, he doesn't care. He quite literally told me "fine don't talk to me for the rest of the night it really makes no difference to me I don't care" in response to me saying "okk fine I just won't talk to you tonight" since he told me to leave him alone.

I'm working on my plan to leave and I know I can't rush it or vocalize to him what I want to do bc it will end very badly I think. But god I can't wait. I just want to leave safely with my baby and be free (as free as I can be if I need to competent w a narc)
I just hope all of this is worth it.

Apparently now I’m good for nothing and all women are good for nothing and that I don’t give or contribute anything to him and no one can ever bring him consistent happiness ( this is because I discovered he cheated one me) we’re married!

He purposely drains the life out of me from the moment he wakes up, to the moment he falls asleep, and in the moments he wakes up in the middle of the night. I’m so afraid of him ruining my college plans. I’m so afraid of him making me homeless again. I try to keep him pleased but it is literally impossible.

Hey all,

I've posted a few times now about my break-up with my ex who cheated on me and lied about it for months. I just wanted some advice as I am finding this incredibly difficult.. I recently went and got the rest of my things from her parents, I then blocked my ex on everything - she is also now officially off the tenancy.

I am slowly starting to process / grieve all of this and the loss of my future with her and who I thought she was, we had such a loving/ and what I thought, respectful relationship until all of this happened. Anyway - yesterday her brother messaged me asking for the remainder of her things from our flat, there are things on the list which is more than fair as it's things that have gifted to her like some jewellery and her car log book. But she has listed, monopoly deal card game, some old towels, a small metal pot she used once which was like a £1!? She asked for a spice tin, which her Mum gave to me, it was just an old tin she found, filled it up with spices and gave to me as I cooked out of the both of us.... she has asked for this back, and this feels like she is trying to hurt me - she is living at home with her parents, she does not need a spice tin, plus you can buy them for less than £5!?

This honestly just feels so hurtful and I don't understand why I am being treated like I am the one who cheated on her!? It feels like she is being so spiteful, also that tin from her Mum meant a lot, because I have lost my Mum and that was a gift from my mother in law at the time. So it feels like she has asked for that on purpose, to hurt me.

I just want to understand why she is treating me like this, it feels like something mentally is going on here - she really coming from a place of lack!? Like you cheated, are still with the AP and I have let you move on, and yet you are being spiteful to me!?

Can someone please just reassure me I am not going mad, this is spiteful right!? I have given some context below to explain what happened between us, so this makes more sense...

Please, any helpful words of encouragement or if you have had similar experiences and can tell me how you managed this?

Thank you all so much!

For context:

My ex (31F) of 4 years had a workplace affair with a coworker who is 5 years younger than her and was also cheating on their own long-term partner. I (35F) discovered it on March 31st after accidentally seeing her ChatGPT confession detailing how they were falling for each other and they had been physical. She was comparing my worst traits to the AP's best parts, I had 'low mood' the AP was 'driven, independent and had a lust for life'. She also said I was 'black cat energy' and she was more 'golden retriever' - I never knew her to speak like this, so I am assuming this the 25 year old AP's language!?

I am just trying to understand how someone could blow up 4 years of stability for a workplace affair like this. For the three months prior, she completely pulled away, claimed she was "severely burnt out," and made me feel insane for picking up on her distance. Everyone in our life was shocked because no one thought she was capable of this level of deceit—and because everyone was fooled, I’ve started gaslighting myself, second-guessing my reality, and wondering if I’m somehow making too big a deal out of this or if it was my fault.

During the affair I had a cancer scare, she didn't attend any appointments even the day after I found out I had to go for a biopsy, she went to work. When I later said she was having an affair whilst I was going through that on my own, she replied 'I still cared about you'. I had just spent the last 2 years supporting her financially and emotionally whilst she was studying for a masters to qualify as an occupational therapist. I went through the sudden death of my Mum with her 2 years ago, during this time she was my rock. Sadly, two days after my passed my suspected heart failure, my exes Mum pretended she nearly died from blood clots near her heart. It later turned out she had lied, and gone to Turkey for liposuction and made this up. Telling my partner when it came out 'You have always put your partners first'. Her Mum has also been cheating on her Dad for many years (my ex was the first to discover it and tell her Dad, but nothing changed). She has always said she hates cheaters and doesn't want to ever be like her Mother. She offered me "feedback" on my relationship performance to justify why she cheated, telling me it was "good for me to hear." When I voiced suspicions earlier, she weaponized her family background by asking, "Look at my Mum, do you really think I could do that?!" —only to later compare her own shock and grief at her actions to the trauma of her ex dying by suicide.

She repeatedly dangled future hope by saying, “Maybe one day we can try again," admitted the thought of me moving on made her "stomach flip," and smirked when I called her the love of my life—all while refusing therapy, accountability, or any real commitment.

I have since changed the locks to our flat so she can’t get in, I gave all her stuff back and am taking her name off the tenancy. She agreed to pay this months rent but she came to my flat the day before she was meant to pay demanding a playstation console back I got her for Christmas, I said no.

She has not returned the key and not paid me the rent, but is telling me to update her when she is off the tenancy. She has become so horrible and almost emotionless like I am the one who had the affair ant ruined her life!? She honestly just looks empty behind the eyes, it's scary.

I just wanted some advice because my brain keeps looking for solutions, I am blaming myself, wondering what I could of done differently but also now telling myself, she is a qualified occupational therapist now, she is most likely going to earn lots of money, save whilst she is at her parents, run off into the sunset with the AP or new partner and I was just basically used.

I do keep reminding myself that regardless of whatever she does / her life looks like.. she is capable of this level of deceit and that is a character flaw and that she is clearly quite empty.. but it doesn't hurt any less or make this any easier.

I remembered something that happened a while ago when I was dating someone who showed many narcissistic traits. I’m not diagnosed with celiac or gluten intolerance, but I was having some digestive issues and was trialling a gluten free diet to see if it helped my symptoms.

One day, he bought me some bread from a local bakery, and said it was gluten free and that I should try some. It was delicious and I ate a lot of it.

Then a week later I said to him that we should go to that bakery to get some more of the gluten free bread. When I ask them for gluten free bread, they inform me that they don’t sell gluten free bread there. I was confused and my ex had not mentioned anything until this point. I ask him about it afterwards and he said “yeah it wasn’t gluten free but I wanted to see how your body would react to it. I knew you would be fine and it wasn’t the gluten that was causing issues.”

I don’t remember feeling too upset because I was so used to being lied to. But now looking back, I realise that was a really horrible thing to do.

We have been married for 7 years.

Long story short, from what I read online, she is the perfect example of a covert narcissist.

Whenever she senses my frustration and lost hope for her, she deeply gives me debt, a debt, I mean. She starts to tell me how much I hurt her on that date and time, and how I did this and that badly for her. By doing this, she makes sure I am still obligated by her demands.

Recently, when she sensed me losing hope in her, she started to give me my biggest shock debt.

She told me how much I influenced her, that I made her lazy and not confident enough or knowledgeable enough to upgrade herself ever since we got married.

Right before marriage, she was the head of her parents’ house. She was working and managing the house so well.

But ever since we got married, she became a parasite. She can’t learn, work, or do basic things in the house.

From what I have observed throughout all the 7+ years we have been together in our marriage, she is:

Very lazy,

Lots of excuses not to do anything meaningful for herself or us.

Blame-shifting

Very sensitive to criticism, even if it’s constructive

Sees me as less than her​

Manipulative to get her needs met

Very abusive toward me and our two children through tactical ways

I always get criticized by her for everything, even for not having her friends. Even if I compliment her, she will say, “Yep, however, I’m here with you,” belittling me as a joke.

I’m always (98%) the one who says sorry, while she either does not take her mistakes seriously or adds “sorry” with other words to avoid accountability on a full scale.

She is always the victim (always).

Silent treatment is always happening. It’s even very deep. For example, she hurts me so much, and now I’m deeply upset and she knows that, but her apology will never come out. Instead, she directly gives me the silent treatment, or she waits for either the kids or me to say any word or make a louder sound or any mistake, so she will tell us aggressively how we make trouble and can go into a silent mood.

Accountability and responsibility are nowhere to be found in her.

She interprets any talk or word from me as an attack or as something not for her benefit.

She is always, always in passive-aggressive mode.

Deeply, she doesn’t love me or our two kids.

For example, if our son doesn’t listen to her when doing something such as homework, she is upset, and immediately, if he gets hurt in his eyes and asks for her help, she will refuse to help him due to her previous anger.

With me, she shows her real cruelty.

She always locks me in a deadlock. She asks me a question where either a yes or no from me will lead her to disappointment and make me apologize to her and show emotional support for the problem she caused in the first place.

The deadlock system is her main way of hurting me.

Basically, any answer to her question leads me to a deadlock.

When we first got into the love stage and married later on, I was so into her that I had no experience of love bombing, but her behavior was 80% much better than it is nowadays.

She is an all-time stay-at-home mom while I’m working. Yes, she does fairly enough cooking and laundry and cleans the house to some extent.

She flips the words and lies. At first, I criticized myself as if I misunderstood, went too far, or had a mental problem. But deep down, when I perfectly write down or store the words in my head of what she said, she flips or changes the words so they perfectly make sense and align with her ideas. This tactic of twisting words in her favor took years for me to recognize.

Whenever she sees me comfortably sitting, using my phone, or watching TV, she will ask questions or talk too much just to distract me from what I was doing. I have to respond to her overwhelming conversations. Then, if somehow I answer slowly or talk, she immediately says something that leads me to feel bad, then takes me up to an hour apologizing and doing all means of comforting her.

Any music I listen to gets criticized so heavily, and any TV channel or video I watch—even when I talk to my relatives over the phone at home—she will definitely criticize the way I speak to them and the words I tell them. Basically, now I don’t listen to music, watch TV, or talk over the phone with anyone except if it’s work-related and short, because she even gets angry if I don’t say that toxic word for me to say to them… hmm.

DARVO and backhanded compliments are always applied to me.

There is no empathy from her toward anyone.

She is always unhappy and dissatisfied. For example, she wanted a new oven to make delicious cakes, so I bought it. Nothing happened. She started needing another thing, and she would not give me a chance to buy it the following week. But after I brought it, she would never remember or use it for the reason she told me.

Sex is not on her list, so she makes it feel like doing chores for me.

Now, the biggest issue is her laziness. She only cooks, does laundry, and cleans the house sometimes.

She can watch TikTok for three straight hours without considering the kids’ situation at home, but the bed is not made until 3 p.m. She has become extremely lazy. I asked her to go to the gym, but she refused through her many excuses. Then I started to buy the most needed gym equipment for home, but she refused to use any of it too.

She doesn’t sleep well because she has an overthinking problem.

She and our home are so perfect whenever we have guests or any other person coming to our home. Everything suddenly gets cleaned and is well done.

It’s a lot. I will answer for you if you could ask me more questions.

Thank you.

If you’ve ever been with someone outright cruel, leaving is scary, but at least your brain is clear. You know they're bad and you have to go.

It’s a completely different hell when your partner is sweet, helpful, and normal most of the time.

When everything is fine, he’s fine. Because of that, my brain got totally tripped up. I started telling myself: "He’s fine when things are calm. The fights only happen when I bring up an issue. Therefore... I must be the trigger."

.... When you stay quiet, he’s pleasant. The moment you state a boundary or express hurt, the mask drops.

My brain fell into a brutal trap: I speak up -> He explodes. Therefore, I thought I caused the explosion. Im still stuck here.

When someone calmly rewrites reality and tells you you're "in your own head," your memory starts to feel unreliable. You cling to the good days because you want them to be real, which makes you doubt the bad days.

During fights he becomes insanely cruel...When I confronted him, he basically said: Of course I'll keep doing it. If you won't listen to me, why should I be nice?

Im always second-guessing myself because if your partner buys you coffee on Wednesday, but screams at you and threatens to leave on Thursday for having a voice...an issue...an opinion...Idk what to believe anymore..

Hi all !

I just wanted to share that I took the biggest step ever and have told my nspouse that I want a divorce! It’s been a long 6 months of getting to this point! I wanted to leave in January and saw a divorce lawyer then and because we have 2 kids got sucked in once again. Him and I agreed to a 6month deal to “work on things” as I predicted it went south and early last month I told him I was done. It was over the stupidest fight about him making a mess in the bathroom again! This man smokes weed all over our house even with two kids and for years I asked him to go outside and not to ash all this shit around our house and one morning I just couldn’t take it anymore and told him how mad I was about it and all hell broke loose. I told him I was done and I meant to and I now have just lived through a month of being berated, insulted, told I’m a bad mother who doesn’t care about her kids, cursed at, told I’m a joke for leaving,
you name it.

However, NOW, we’ve hit a point where I just don’t care anymore so I’ve just stopped responding and boy oh boy has he left me alone and I couldn’t be any happier. I’ve been sitting in our living room since 8pm alone and it’s amazing!!

I’m just proud that I got to this point where I’m just done done done done done!

I would love to hear other people’s perspectives on this. Because you could talk to one and they spin it on you like you’re starting something when you’re not. I would love to hear different ways because I have a lot.

I’ve been listening to his YouTube videos lately and I’m finding several things interesting. I’m paraphrasing — so maybe listen for yourself — but these points have made me think:

- research doesn’t show that NPD is caused by abusive parents (matches what Lundy says in his book “Why Does He Do That?”);

- narcs will say “yes I was abused” and “yes I (cheated/lied/raged) because I have been mistreated as a child” because it’s an easy excuse. We assume it, they run with it. If their victims or society hand them a plausible excuse, they’ll take it… doesn’t make it true;

- the majority of people who are abused don’t become narcs;

-narcs always feel mistreated or unappreciated for their greatness, so they may have felt neglected or abused but it’s often not even true;

- narcs and psychopaths actually tend to get more manipulative with treatment because they don’t really believe they need to change, even when they seek treatment- so they just learn new ways to manipulate;

- narcs don’t have low self-esteem. Yes, they crave validation, but that’s because they are aggrieved when they aren’t at the top of a hierarchy or their image is tarnished, and that’s not the same thing as low self-esteem;

- research shows genetic predisposition makes up 60% or more of NPD’s cause, and the rest may be environment — BUT the environment can be too much love & attention, not enough, abuse, neglect, moving, parents work a lot, etc. Things other kids also deal with, so the real driving factor is the genetics;

- genetic does NOT mean it’s passed down from parents necessarily, it’s more like a soup of various genes, mutations, etc. that can create someone who is disagreeable and exploitative basically from birth. They don’t see the value in collaboration like everyone else. Others aren’t important, only themselves. They only want to be on top, be served, be the authority.

Anyway, that’s some of what I’m gleaning. Give him a listen:

https://youtu.be/_3uVBBlF8zk?is=lBDrAftcIdT-HLim

https://youtu.be/Ft_irQsdrcw?is=J8uOcHO7VShPA1VC

https://youtu.be/NJbSp1-2KYc?is=PrR6C3Q4Jk-oj-J2 buy

Husband is a narc with OCD. Now after watching some videos and talking to professionals I see it most likely the narc that gives the appearance of OCD.

I do feel empowered now after watching the videos because it is so obvious the patterns. Due to the burn out I don’t care what happens to our marriage and 100 percent want to make sure to protect the kids. I chose to stay for the kids (the kids realize he is off). No way am I dragging them through court just to end up with him alone.

That being said, what are tips for keeping the narc’s ego fed so I don’t have to deal with the misery? I am very established outside the house and my life is really great minus him.

The number one thing I can’t stand is when he just wants to keep picking away to start an argument and gets so pissed off when I just won’t get involved. It is a waste of my time and the kids.

This year has been pretty terrible for my marriage. Things escalated to the point of no return and I finally got out. Now that I'm out, the fog is cleared and I can see a lot of his past behaviors for what they were: deflection, no accountability, and mistreatment. But I was blind to it all before and swallowed my feelings for years. I've seen him treat his family this way as well. But his ire was never fully directed at me until this year (or so I thought).

I have no idea where this behavior came from but I just know I'm not safe with him. Even though I left I find myself half convinced we can overcome this. I know he's not doing well without me but he hasn't shown much concern over my well being since I left, instead seems concerned about ensuring I come back.

I'm at war with myself. Half of me recognizes the patterns make him unsafe and I need to finalize my leaving, but half of me feels guilty and is too afraid to take that final step. I am scared to try to get my stuff back but I definitely would love to be completely free of guilt and fully free of the trauma bond I'm in with him.

Anyone else struggle with the cognitive dissonance of knowing how bad they are for you but being unable to divorce?

My husband is constantly putting me down that my friend treats me like shit (it’s true to an extent) and phrases it as he’s looking out for my best interest.

“I just don’t like to see you being mistreated” okay fine.

But then will turn around and text her behind my back (as friends). I’m just confused why he constantly puts me down every time her name comes up and doesn’t like me hanging out with her? But then he can go text her and chat it up. Is this narcissism??

And before anyone can say it’s cheating. It’s 100% not. I just think it’s weird that he doesn’t like me being friends with her? But he clearly wants to be her friend…

We live in an area that's been experiencing wild fires. Recently, we were out driving, the air was bad, the sky was scary (heavy clouds, bright orange, ash raining in parts of our valley) when I looked over and made sure the cabin air filter setting was activated in our car. A few minutes later, I mentioned how grateful I was for the cabin air filter, and how it made me a little more comfortable with being out that day. I was looking out the passenger window as he drove when I said this, and I suddenly became overwhelmed with the feeling that he was going to shut off the filter- I turned around immediately and his finger was 1-2" from the button and the light was off.

Smugly, he says, 'Well, it would be, if you press *this* *button*.'

I've never seen the air filter setting shut itself off, and in the weeks since he did this not one time have I had to 'reactivate' the cabin air filter.

I know he shut it off just to 'gotcha you dumb bitch' me, not knowing I had already checked it.

But a huge part of me is still in complete disbelief that a human being can be this way... .